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NOT A PARTY GAL ~

The name of the political party in this election isn't what concerns me. Neither does the color of the skin -- because skin is only a covering for the heart and mind inside the person. I cast my vote for principle. There are lot of "principles" involved in this election, but I have to settle my mind on what I consider the most important ones.

The economy is important yes. Jobs are important, yes! Defending America is important, by all means. Protecting our seniors and their retirement income is definitely important. All these things, and many more, are vitally important to our nation.

I'm convinced, however, that protecting other innocents is just as, and even more important.
How can we expect America to excel, to thrive, to lead the way as an example of true democracy and freedom when we deny that freedom to others?

There are two important factors that stand out to me after hearing all the debates, the speeches and the promises each candidate makes.
1. Protecting our future citizens.
2. Protecting our freedom of speech.

1. If Obama signs a bill, as he's promised, to permit abortions at any stage of the pregnancy, what is he actually doing? He's giving his permission for babies that are fully able to breathe, survive and become viable citizens to be destroyed.

This means partial birth abortions are not only permitted, we have to live with our own consciences! In this procedure, babies are partially delivered (head first), the attending abortionist stabs the head with a pair of scissors, sucks the brains out and then delivers a dead baby. Sick! I can't live with myself if I vote in a president who permits this.

2. Your freedom to speak against homosexuality will disappear as soon as Obama signs the hate crimes bill he promises to do "immediately."

I don't hate anybody, but I do have the right to disagree with them. Where has our freedom of speech gone when we can no longer express our feelings and convictions on things?

Any pastor or speaker that uses the Bible to speak about homosexuality is in danger of jail. It's happening in Canada now, and this bill was signed into law there not long ago. The Bible passages that teach homosexuality is "an abomination" will be "outlawed as hate speech." Are you willing to lose your freedom to express your opinion on this issue? I'm not.

The following two principles help me make a decision when voting. Not the party, not the color of skin, not the economy. We cannot expect America to be great or to be blessed if we don't take a stand on principle.

1. protecting the unborn - (see today's news item, front page online - an unborn baby protected in court here in the Shoals)

2. protecting our freedom to speak on issues without being incited for a "hate crime."

We may not have a great choice when voting this year, but these two principles helped me come to a clear decision: I can't vote for Obama.
"In the beginning...God." Genesis 1:1
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Homophobia and abortion. Neither the business of the United States Government.
So, if I understand your post correctly, these two issues are all you really care about, dosn't matter if our country becomes a 3rd rate 3rd world country in the process.

This kind of fear tactics is what Karl Rove used to twice get the worse president in our history elected. He has ushered our country to near bankruptcy, and has us involved in a "war" of choice in Iraq and now an occupation of that country that is costing 10 Million dollars a month. One candidate proposes to continue pissing away our national treasure, and blood for 100 years, and do so by borrowing money from
China that our children and grandchildren, and great grandchildren will have to pay back.
Still yet, you don't care about them, just your little issues.
quote:
Originally posted by Backwoods:
quote:
This kind of fear tactics is what Karl Rove used to twice get the worse president in our history elected


I'm not old enough to remember,but I thought Carter only served 1 term.I might be wrong.But anyway,I didn't know Rove worked for him.


I'm not sure where you went to school, but they should have taught you that Rove worked for the current moron, G W Bush.
No need for me to add a link, just Google "worst president ever". Lots of articles you can choose from.
I don't understand how some of you claim to not want government telling you what to do but at the same time wants the same government to stop abortions. You can't have it both ways. So let me see. Some of you are saying that Sen Obama is attempting to tell you what to do with your money (taxes), but on the other hand Sen McCain is telling women what then can and can't do to their bodies. Is that not government control? You can't have it both ways.
quote:
Originally posted by Backwoods:
.
quote:

I'm not sure where you went to school, but they should have taught you that Rove worked for the current moron, G W Bush

I'm not sure where you went to school,but the person you are calling moron went to Harvard.


Witch proves beyond a reasonable doubt that morons can get into and out of Harvard!
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
flotown,
I don't think that McCain, or for that matter Obama, will have any say over what a woman can do with their body, they will however be in charge of nominating to the Supreme Court, whose job it is to interpret the law, not to make up new ones.
My problem is with those that scream the Sen Obama is "Big Government" and at the same time Sen McCain wants to take one of the right away from a woman concerning her body. Yes her body. Both oppose gay marriage when even in the Declaration of Independence it clearly states "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." It does not exclude any race, creed, color, or sexual preference.

These are not federal or state issues, this are family issues.
excel,
IT is not a secret that the more liberal of the Supreme Court judges have tended in the past to rewrtie the laws rather than just to interpret them. That is food for another aurgument, but my opinion is that the Supreme Court justices whose views are less liberal have tended to be more in step with the mainstream America.

Do I think that Roe vs. Wade is a decision that with the blink of an eye can be erased from the books and make all abortion illegal? Absolutely not, nor do I think it would serve any purpose, but the checks and balances will be removed with Obama and a full Dem Senate/House

flotown,
Let's face it, the right of gay marriage is not about what two people are doing in the bedroom. That takes pace in just about any place, heck even from what I have heard in the local nature trails. The issue of gay marriage is really more of just a statement, Hey "I'm queer and I'm here", get over it. I don't go out tauting my sexuality, it is no one's business. Do I think that gays have a right to live together? Absolutely, they should even share benfits as a ssignificant other if they wish. The point is when the country decides that it is our moral duty to condone the activity and bring it out in the open, we really have "jumped the shark". BTW the DoI doesn't mention women, just men, yet we still recogninize them. Things don't have to be certainly spelled out by the Constitution to make sure they get taken of....
quote:
That takes pace in just about any place, heck even from what I have heard in the local nature trails

Straight people do the exact thing. So it so okay for little Tommy to see a man and woman making out but not two women. To fix that make a law that says no more public affection towards the one you love. Problem solved. Eeker

quote:
The point is when the country decides that it is our moral duty to condone the activity and bring it out in the open
It was not long ago when black and white people could not marry because it was not ok in the eyes of society. Even today some states still have that on the books. That is how it all starts, taking away little rights, and next thing you know they will be listening to you phone calls. Oops they already do that.
I'm not saying homosexuals don't have equal rights. Any citizen in this country has the right to vote, to go to school, to attend the church they wish/or don't wish to attend, to walk down the street, to hold a job, etc., etc.

I just don't think any particular group deserves "special rights" that infringe on the rights of all others. I am a Christian, but I'm not flaunting that... nor am I demanding that you agree with me or forcing you to hold your peace in your opinions about Christians.

I'm not in favor of mistreating homosexuals ... I'm just not in favor of elevating them above the rest of society and taking away our freedom to disagree and speak against their lifestyle if we choose.

I'm not in favor of mistreating women who have abortions. But by God's grace, if I get a chance to talk to one who is contemplating abortion, I'll lovingly give her some options to consider and plead for the baby's life. If she decides to go ahead, I'm not going to follow her to a clinic and blow up the building.

Whether someone likes it or not, I do have a right to express my opinion and concern, just as you do. There is an old saying that if you see someone in danger and don't try to help, their blood is on your hands. (Bible)

Wrapping this up: special interest groups or those who demand special treatment and "better rights" are actually asking that the rest of us - who don't particularly agree with them or their philosophy -- to give up our right to have a difference of opinion and live by it.

Example 1: according to law, a pregnant woman has the right to deny her own child, created by her own choice to be sexually active. She has the right to abort/destroy/deny her child (it all ends up with the baby dying). BUT the baby doesn't have the right to breathe, be adopted, loved and protected.

Example 2: people can protest against Christian meetings/assemblies anytime they choose, and they do so often. BUT those who disagree with abortion and/or homosexual lifestyles are "hate-mongers" and should be silenced. This is not equal treatment.

In my opinion, special interest groups don't want equal treatment, they want better treatment. And that is hypocrisy, whether it's gays, Christians or pregnant women.
flotown,
Like I said whther it is right or worng, it is not for me to decide. Men/Men, Women/Women or whatever will continue to flaunt their sexuality out in public, legalizing marriage is not going to stop them. It does not disgust me, I am old enough to think all I need to do is to turn away. It does however confuse children, much like seeing a man and woman doing things like this out in public, but because of the way children are raised, in a traditional family, it is confusing. Do homsexuals and lesbians scare me? Heck no. But does not mean that I condone their activity, since I do believe that God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, and that the realtionship plan he had for us is the one for me. I do not bring down m judgement on them, that is between God and themselves, but it is my obligation, and every other Christian's as well, to support what we are taguht by the word of God to do. We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. I do not hate them, I just cannot condone what they do.
Now before you think I am some high and mighty, I am a sinner just like them, as everyone is, and before I remove the splinter from their eye, I should remove the log from my own. It is just my opnion, and that is why I support the candidate I have chosen.
quote:
Originally posted by pcgal:
The name of the political party in this election isn't what concerns me. Neither does the color of the skin -- because skin is only a covering for the heart and mind inside the person.

I cast my vote for principle. There are lot of "principles" involved in this election, but I have to settle my mind on what I consider the most important ones.

The economy is important yes. Jobs are important, yes! Defending America is important, by all means. Protecting our seniors and their retirement income is definitely important. All these things, and many more, are vitally important to our nation.

I'm convinced, however, that protecting other innocents is just as, and even more important.
How can we expect America to excel, to thrive, to lead the way as an example of true democracy and freedom when we deny that freedom to others?

There are two important factors that stand out to me after hearing all the debates, the speeches and the promises each candidate makes.
1. Protecting our future citizens.
2. Protecting our freedom of speech.

1. If Obama signs a bill, as he's promised, to permit abortions at any stage of the pregnancy, what is he actually doing? He's giving his permission for babies that are fully able to breathe, survive and become viable citizens to be destroyed.

This means partial birth abortions are not only permitted, we have to live with our own consciences! In this procedure, babies are partially delivered (head first), the attending abortionist stabs the head with a pair of scissors, sucks the brains out and then delivers a dead baby. Sick! I can't live with myself if I vote in a president who permits this.


Sigh.

Why would the Republicans ever do any about abortion? The can absolutely count on people like you to vote for them simply because they state that they are against abortion. Duh. The Republicans had complete control of Congress and the Presidency from 2000-2006. Please tell me exactly what they did to do away with all abortions? Nada, that's what.

I'm not for abortion, but I'm not for controlling the lives of others either.

quote:

2. Your freedom to speak against homosexuality will disappear as soon as Obama signs the hate crimes bill he promises to do "immediately."

I don't hate anybody, but I do have the right to disagree with them. Where has our freedom of speech gone when we can no longer express our feelings and convictions on things?

Any pastor or speaker that uses the Bible to speak about homosexuality is in danger of jail. It's happening in Canada now, and this bill was signed into law there not long ago. The Bible passages that teach homosexuality is "an abomination" will be "outlawed as hate speech." Are you willing to lose your freedom to express your opinion on this issue? I'm not.


I assume that you are speaking about Stephen Boissoin in Alberta. I read Boissoin's article and it never quotes the Bible regarding homosexuality. It mentions God exactly once.

It basically says that homosexuality should not be tolerated at all. Why? To protect children, not because God or the Bible dislikes it.

Even though I found the diatribe to be quite hatelful, I still disagree with the ruling against Boissoin. Here is a man would deny any rights at all to homosexuals if he could (except to not be homosexual) getting the same treatment that he would give to them if he only had the power. Hopefully, Boissoin will win his appeal so that he won't be able to to do the same things to others.

quote:

These two principles help me make a decision when voting. Not the party, not the color of skin, not the economy. We cannot expect America to be great or to be blessed if we don't take a stand on principle.


1. protecting the unborn - (see today's news item, front page online - an unborn baby protected in court here in the Shoals)

2. protecting our freedom to speak on issues without being incited for a "hate crime."

We may not have a great choice when voting this year, but these two principles helped me come to a clear decision: I can't vote for Obama.


I am pro free speech and not for abortion and I will proudly vote for Obama on the 4th.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
excel,
IT is not a secret that the more liberal of the Supreme Court judges have tended in the past to rewrtie the laws rather than just to interpret them. That is food for another aurgument, but my opinion is that the Supreme Court justices whose views are less liberal have tended to be more in step with the mainstream America.

Do I think that Roe vs. Wade is a decision that with the blink of an eye can be erased from the books and make all abortion illegal? Absolutely not, nor do I think it would serve any purpose, but the checks and balances will be removed with Obama and a full Dem Senate/House



Tye, Roe V Wade did not write laws or as the wing nuts like to say "legislate from the bench". It sounds good, but like much of the bumper sticker mindset that prevails today dosn't tell the entire story.

Roe V Wade is about privacy. In short it said that the 14th amendment applied to a woman's right to privacy in the matter of abortion. News flash- upholding the 14th amendment is NOT legislating from the bench.

Now, what my real problem is on this matter, is people who say that people who are "pro choice" or those like myself who agree that a woman has a right of privacy guaranteed by the Constitution are "pro abortion. That, of course, is a lie from the pit of hell. No one is "pro abortion", and the use of that inflammatory language is from the pit of hell (I believe that literally) .
I believe that the subject of abortion is a subject best left to a woman and her doctor, and has no place in a national election. In fact I have for years been sick of the subject. Can you imagine the arrogance of a person who thinks it is their business to stick their nose (or by extension the government to stick their nose in for them) into someones business that is that personal.
I think if these people would put half as much effort into making abortion un-necessary as they do into trying to dictate their morals or personal beliefs to others, we could possibly eleminate abortion , except for the life and health of the mother, almost entirely .
I find it insulting that McCain makes fun of the "life and health of the mother". That shows what he really thinks about being "pro-life". Bull++++ ! Dosn't he think the mother's life is worth saving? I can tell you for a fact, if that "life or health" was referring to my wife or daughter, anyone who thinks that their little minded self righteous morals had precedent over the life and health of my family can just go to hell as far as I am concerned.
Call yourself pro-life and vehemently oppose a woman’s right to an abortion but make sure you’re against Head Start, pre-natal health care, welfare and anything else that could possibly make a woman considering one carry her baby to term instead. So you are for pro life, but vote republicans in office to cut out programs to feed and care for the childs well being. Sorry, I don't get it. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
flotown,
Like I said whther it is right or worng, it is not for me to decide. Men/Men, Women/Women or whatever will continue to flaunt their sexuality out in public, legalizing marriage is not going to stop them. It does not disgust me, I am old enough to think all I need to do is to turn away. It does however confuse children, much like seeing a man and woman doing things like this out in public, but because of the way children are raised, in a traditional family, it is confusing. Do homsexuals and lesbians scare me? Heck no. But does not mean that I condone their activity, since I do believe that God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, and that the realtionship plan he had for us is the one for me. I do not bring down m judgement on them, that is between God and themselves, but it is my obligation, and every other Christian's as well, to support what we are taguht by the word of God to do. We are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. I do not hate them, I just cannot condone what they do.
Now before you think I am some high and mighty, I am a sinner just like them, as everyone is, and before I remove the splinter from their eye, I should remove the log from my own. It is just my opnion, and that is why I support the candidate I have chosen.
Of course this is my opinion. It is not the job of government (fed or state) to teach my child right from wrong. It is mine. Just like in public schools student learn about evloution, but it up to the parents to teach about The Creation. Now everyone should remember that everything God mad was/is good. He does not make mistakes. Again these are my opinions but no form of government has the right to tell a human who it can marry.
quote:
Originally posted by Sleepyshoals:
Here's what people don't seem to understand: If abortion is outlawed, it won't stop women from obtaining illegal and unsafe abortions. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. More focus should be given to family planning and helping young women (and men) understand how to prevent unwanted pregnancies.


I'm sure that in the beginning the argument for abortion was that it would be safe, legal and rare but it has become just another contraceptive. As for the focus being on family planning and how to prevent unwanted pregnancies - do you think young people today don't know what causes pregnancies or how to prevent them? Kids know more at the age of 8 than we used to at 15. Its a lack of morality in this country that is causing the problem.
I respect what you are saying but the crux of the debate about abortion for me is the government funding of it. US government tax payer dollars should not be used to fund abortion. As someone who is familar with the medical world I can tell you that there is no way it will ever be done away with, and no way that it should ever be outlawed. It does however need to come with responsiblity. It should not be funded with American taxpayer dollars and flaunted in the face of the ones who oppose it. That is my argument to it. AS a taxpayer I am being obligated to participate and condone it because my monies are being used in its institution.
And you are correct that family values began at home, I do not expect anyone to teach my children the difference between right and wrong, exept for me and my wife, but if everyone was held accountable for their behavior that would not be so hard.
JJ, you always love to throw up the old Republicans' don't support head-start and the rest of those programs you think add so much to our culture. How do you know? Mainly it is about "responsibility", and asking someone to take a little bit of repsonsibility for their own actions, and livelihood, rather than continuing to suck from the government tit for generations. The government should not be made to be the primary giver of funds and entitlements to people. That was not its original design.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
I respect what you are saying but the crux of the debate about abortion for me is the government funding of it. US government tax payer dollars should not be used to fund abortion. As someone who is familar with the medical world I can tell you that there is no way it will ever be done away with, and no way that it should ever be outlawed. It does however need to come with responsiblity. It should not be funded with American taxpayer dollars and flaunted in the face of the ones who oppose it. That is my argument to it. AS a taxpayer I am being obligated to participate and condone it because my monies are being used in its institution.


Flaunt? What an incredibly overused and abused word. Just because something the government or even someone does something you don't agree with does not mean that they are flaunting their actions. Get a grip.

If someone needs an abortion and cannot pay for one, then how exactly do you think that they will be able to take of the child if they have it? Or even have proper pre-natal care?

quote:

And you are correct that family values began at home, I do not expect anyone to teach my children the difference between right and wrong, exept for me and my wife, but if everyone was held accountable for their behavior that would not be so hard.
JJ, you always love to throw up the old Republicans' don't support head-start and the rest of those programs you think add so much to our culture. How do you know?


And how do you know it is not? I have to agree with JJPaul on this. Republicans should more accurately be called pro-birth instead of pro-life. After birth that personal responsibility thing takes over and it's on its own.

quote:

Mainly it is about "responsibility", and asking someone to take a little bit of repsonsibility for their own actions, and livelihood, rather than continuing to suck from the government tit for generations. The government should not be made to be the primary giver of funds and entitlements to people. That was not its original design.


Why do so many conservatives think that everyone who might get some assistance from the government is lazy, doesn't want to work, and just does it because they can? Sure there are folks that do that, but everyone. Ever hear of something called compassion? Jesus spoke often about it.

I believe in personal responsibility and accountability, but I am also not naive enough to believe that alone will solve all the problems of the world.
Well I guess that is where we can have a difference of opinions.
By flaunting, I mean disrepsectful displays of sexuality such as I have persoanlly witnessed in an effort to "shock" those who more than likely disagree with their particular sexual orientation. Ever ventured to New Orleans around Labor Day? Pensacola around Memorial Day? Two men walking hand in hand down the street with their butt cheeks exposed is something I would term as flaunting. Like others on here, I do not deny them to the right to do as they please, but why should they get rights that others do not have. Take for instance the "Gay Hate Crime Law", why should someone who kills a gay person be treated any differently than someone who killed a heterosexual? What makes them so special?
And yes, if people took more personal repsonsibility they would be able to solve some of their problems. How many young workers today are sitting at home, waiting on an adminstrative position to open up, rather than taking a job digging ditches, cutting grass, or flipping burgers? Becuase they are ebtter than that? Instead they will wait till the first of the month and collect their checks and watch Springer during the day, take and afternoon nap, and head out to party in the evening. Why not try to get and education, or learn a trade that would provide for them? There is money available to you if you wish to do this, but instead they would rather whine and moan about how somebody owes them something.
And don't give me the crap about "no way for people to take care of the baby", there are plenty of programs out there now, and the health departments do a great job of helping young mothers get what they need if they qualify. Of course quite a few will have to be seen consistently for bronchitis and asthma because the young parents insist on smoking cigarettes in the general vicinity of the children. Perhaps we should also have a Cigarette and Tobacco Allowance given to everyone as well, would that suit your liberalist agenda?
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
Well I guess that is where we can have a difference of opinions.
By flaunting, I mean disrepsectful displays of sexuality such as I have persoanlly witnessed in an effort to "shock" those who more than likely disagree with their particular sexual orientation. Ever ventured to New Orleans around Labor Day? Pensacola around Memorial Day? Two men walking hand in hand down the street with their butt cheeks exposed is something I would term as flaunting.


I agree that exposed cheeks goes to far.

quote:

Like others on here, I do not deny them to the right to do as they please, but why should they get rights that others do not have. Take for instance the "Gay Hate Crime Law", why should someone who kills a gay person be treated any differently than someone who killed a heterosexual? What makes them so special?


The hate crime applies to sexual orientation. It applies equally to homosexuals and heterosexuals. Generally, it is usually just homosexuals that get killed for their sexuality.

quote:

And yes, if people took more personal repsonsibility they would be able to solve some of their problems. How many young workers today are sitting at home, waiting on an adminstrative position to open up, rather than taking a job digging ditches, cutting grass, or flipping burgers? Becuase they are ebtter than that?


Yes, it would solve some, but not all.

quote:
Instead they will wait till the first of the month and collect their checks and watch Springer during the day, take and afternoon nap, and head out to party in the evening. Why not try to get and education, or learn a trade that would provide for them? There is money available to you if you wish to do this, but instead they would rather whine and moan about how somebody owes them something.


As I said earlier, there are some who fit this description, but it is not everyone. You only speak of those, what about the others?

quote:

And don't give me the crap about "no way for people to take care of the baby", there are plenty of programs out there now, and the health departments do a great job of helping young mothers get what they need if they qualify.


Ah, but those are some of the same programs you've been griping about. Do you mean to say that some might actually be useful?

quote:
Of course quite a few will have to be seen consistently for bronchitis and asthma because the young parents insist on smoking cigarettes in the general vicinity of the children. Perhaps we should also have a Cigarette and Tobacco Allowance given to everyone as well, would that suit your liberalist agenda?


LOL. What exactly is my "liberalist" agenda? Am I a liberal simply because I disagree with you on various issues? I've already told you that I believe in personal responsibility and accountability.

I believe that some people need an incentive to not be on government assistance. I believe that birth control should be a requirement to receive government assistance. Why? If you cannot afford to take of yourself, you obviously can't afford to take care of children.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
Mainly it is about "responsibility", and asking someone to take a little bit of repsonsibility for their own actions, and livelihood, rather than continuing to suck from the government tit for generations.


quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
And don't give me the crap about "no way for people to take care of the baby", there are plenty of programs out there now, and the health departments do a great job of helping young mothers get what they need if they qualify.


Those two quotes are from posts only a little over an hour apart.

Which is it? Do you want the "government tit" to dry up and these people to take "responsibility for their own actions"? Or do you want these unfortunate young mothers to get assistance "if they qualify"? Your arguments are at odds with one another.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by excelman:
Homophobia and abortion. Neither the business of the United States Government.
So, if I understand your post correctly, these two issues are all you really care about,

QUOTE]

Oh my goodness, abortion is MURDER!! Being gay is immoral and is a sin. These two topics are two VERY VERY important topics! What if your mom would've had an abortion? If a president supports MURDER of an innocent child then he does not need to be in control of our country because there is no telling what else he would do! The business part of being a president does matter but these topics are just as much important!
quote:
Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Asking a Republican for logic is a mistake, everything they believe in is just slogans. Notice, the most important issue to them, abortion, is not even mentioned in the Bible.


Yep, not mentioned, but what IS forbidden by the Bible is eating catfish, eating shrimp, eating lobster, and for a man to cut his hair and shave his beard. Funny we don't have people railing about that.
Remember that primary thing that the plastic establishment disliked about the hippies is their hair.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
I don't understand how some of you claim to not want government telling you what to do but at the same time wants the same government to stop abortions. You can't have it both ways. So let me see. Some of you are saying that Sen Obama is attempting to tell you what to do with your money (taxes), but on the other hand Sen McCain is telling women what then can and can't do to their bodies. Is that not government control? You can't have it both ways.


flotown79, please educate yourself on McCains stance. He also doesn't believe the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT should tell a woman what to do or not do with the life inside her. He wants to take it out of Federal and place it back in State.
President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended
Remarks by the President from the USS Abraham Lincoln
At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California

Video (Real)
Audio
En Español



THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment -- yet, it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage, your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other, made this day possible. Because of you, our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free. (Applause.)

Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before. From distant bases or ships at sea, we sent planes and missiles that could destroy an enemy division, or strike a single bunker. Marines and soldiers charged to Baghdad across 350 miles of hostile ground, in one of the swiftest advances of heavy arms in history. You have shown the world the skill and the might of the American Armed Forces.

This nation thanks all the members of our coalition who joined in a noble cause. We thank the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom, Australia, and Poland, who shared in the hardships of war. We thank all the citizens of Iraq who welcomed our troops and joined in the liberation of their own country. And tonight, I have a special word for Secretary Rumsfeld, for General Franks, and for all the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States: America is grateful for a job well done. (Applause.)

The character of our military through history -- the daring of Normandy, the fierce courage of Iwo Jima, the decency and idealism that turned enemies into allies -- is fully present in this generation. When Iraqi civilians looked into the faces of our servicemen and women, they saw strength and kindness and goodwill. When I look at the members of the United States military, I see the best of our country, and I'm honored to be your Commander-in-Chief. (Applause.)

In the images of falling statues, we have witnessed the arrival of a new era. For a hundred of years of war, culminating in the nuclear age, military technology was designed and deployed to inflict casualties on an ever-growing scale. In defeating Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, Allied forces destroyed entire cities, while enemy leaders who started the conflict were safe until the final days. Military power was used to end a regime by breaking a nation.

Today, we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime. With new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians. No device of man can remove the tragedy from war; yet it is a great moral advance when the guilty have far more to fear from war than the innocent. (Applause.)

In the images of celebrating Iraqis, we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement. Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food and water and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices; and everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear. (Applause.)

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. (Applause.)

The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. Then we will leave, and we will leave behind a free Iraq. (Applause.)

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the "beginning of the end of America." By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed. (Applause.)

In the battle of Afghanistan, we destroyed the Taliban, many terrorists, and the camps where they trained. We continue to help the Afghan people lay roads, restore hospitals, and educate all of their children. Yet we also have dangerous work to complete. As I speak, a Special Operations task force, led by the 82nd Airborne, is on the trail of the terrorists and those who seek to undermine the free government of Afghanistan. America and our coalition will finish what we have begun. (Applause.)

From Pakistan to the Philippines to the Horn of Africa, we are hunting down al Qaeda killers. Nineteen months ago, I pledged that the terrorists would not escape the patient justice of the United States. And as of tonight, nearly one-half of al Qaeda's senior operatives have been captured or killed. (Applause.)

The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more. (Applause.)

In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused and deliberate and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th -- the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got. (Applause.)

Our war against terror is proceeding according to principles that I have made clear to all: Any person involved in committing or planning terrorist attacks against the American people becomes an enemy of this country, and a target of American justice. (Applause.)

Any person, organization, or government that supports, protects, or harbors terrorists is complicit in the murder of the innocent, and equally guilty of terrorist crimes.

Any outlaw regime that has ties to terrorist groups and seeks or possesses weapons of mass destruction is a grave danger to the civilized world -- and will be confronted. (Applause.)

And anyone in the world, including the Arab world, who works and sacrifices for freedom has a loyal friend in the United States of America. (Applause.)
Click here for a USS Abraham Lincoln photo essay.

Our commitment to liberty is America's tradition -- declared at our founding; affirmed in Franklin Roosevelt's Four Freedoms; asserted in the Truman Doctrine and in Ronald Reagan's challenge to an evil empire. We are committed to freedom in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in a peaceful Palestine. The advance of freedom is the surest strategy to undermine the appeal of terror in the world. Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope. When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life. American values and American interests lead in the same direction: We stand for human liberty. (Applause.)

The United States upholds these principles of security and freedom in many ways -- with all the tools of diplomacy, law enforcement, intelligence, and finance. We're working with a broad coalition of nations that understand the threat and our shared responsibility to meet it. The use of force has been -- and remains -- our last resort. Yet all can know, friend and foe alike, that our nation has a mission: We will answer threats to our security, and we will defend the peace. (Applause.)

Our mission continues. Al Qaeda is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells of the terrorist network still operate in many nations, and we know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against free people. The proliferation of deadly weapons remains a serious danger. The enemies of freedom are not idle, and neither are we. Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend the homeland. And we will continue to hunt down the enemy before he can strike. (Applause.)

The war on terror is not over; yet it is not endless. We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide. No act of the terrorists will change our purpose, or weaken our resolve, or alter their fate. Their cause is lost. Free nations will press on to victory. (Applause.)

Other nations in history have fought in foreign lands and remained to occupy and exploit. Americans, following a battle, want nothing more than to return home. And that is your direction tonight. (Applause.) After service in the Afghan -- and Iraqi theaters of war -- after 100,000 miles, on the longest carrier deployment in recent history, you are homeward bound. (Applause.) Some of you will see new family members for the first time -- 150 babies were born while their fathers were on the Lincoln. Your families are proud of you, and your nation will welcome you. (Applause.)

We are mindful, as well, that some good men and women are not making the journey home. One of those who fell, Corporal Jason Mileo, spoke to his parents five days before his death. Jason's father said, "He called us from the center of Baghdad, not to brag, but to tell us he loved us. Our son was a soldier."

Every name, every life is a loss to our military, to our nation, and to the loved ones who grieve. There's no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray, in God's time, their reunion will come.

Those we lost were last seen on duty. Their final act on this Earth was to fight a great evil and bring liberty to others. All of you -- all in this generation of our military -- have taken up the highest calling of history. You're defending your country, and protecting the innocent from harm. And wherever you go, you carry a message of hope -- a message that is ancient and ever new. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, "To the captives, 'come out,' -- and to those in darkness, 'be free.'"

Thank you for serving our country and our cause. May God bless you all, and may God continue to bless America. (Applause.)

SAME AS WITH GAY RIGHTS:

John McCain who has said he believes states should be left to define what marriage is.


He wants individual states to decide what would be best for their residents. Something else this country was founded on.
quote:
Originally posted by TaylO:
Oh my goodness, abortion is MURDER!! Being gay is immoral and is a sin. These two topics are two VERY VERY important topics!


Being gay is simply an artifact of life. I don't believe it to be either a sin or immoral.

quote:

What if your mom would've had an abortion? If a president supports MURDER of an innocent child then he does not need to be in control of our country because there is no telling what else he would do! The business part of being a president does matter but these topics are just as much important!


Pro-choice is not the same as pro-abortion. Allowing a person to make that choice instead of you making it for them does not mean that you support abortion.

AFAIK no candidate for any office has come out as pro-abortion.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed@Bama:
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
Mainly it is about "responsibility", and asking someone to take a little bit of repsonsibility for their own actions, and livelihood, rather than continuing to suck from the government tit for generations.


quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
And don't give me the crap about "no way for people to take care of the baby", there are plenty of programs out there now, and the health departments do a great job of helping young mothers get what they need if they qualify.


Those two quotes are from posts only a little over an hour apart.

Which is it? Do you want the "government tit" to dry up and these people to take "responsibility for their own actions"? Or do you want these unfortunate young mothers to get assistance "if they qualify"? Your arguments are at odds with one another.

No what I am saying is there are things out there now that do work, but are not managed properly, and there are many who overuse and abuse the system. You can deny it if you wish, but IF these systems were utilized and governed properly most of us would not find too much fault in them. Even a mother pig does not allow the piglets to suck forever, at some point and time you have to be weaned from the system. Seeing a young woman of 32 years old giving birth to her 12th child, who has no visible means of support, no job, and no education, is a failure in the system. Now before you drag out the abortion train, which is cheaper birth control or the alternative?
This is not just one example, there is plenty of this out there. Raising the minimum wage, and throwing more money in these programs will not solve these types of problems, despite what you think. It does require some perosnal repsonsibility. The government programs need to be used as a temproray method of support, not a crutch to cripple them permenantly.

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