quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
The topics of this forum have turned to a debate between science and religion, and whether or not people (?SHEEPLE) are crazy for following their beliefs in God and Heaven.
Now, there are some "normal" people here, thinking, breathing, science-embracing, God Loving Christians- we are not all extremists, without minds of our own.
I believe there is a balance of science and religion. Belief in one does not have to be mutually exclusive.
Road Puppy, you in particular, I believe, are trying very hard to believe in something. I really do. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you were forced into Catholicism as a child, and then rebelled against the structure. Now you are looking for your own truths.
You don't have to throw out logic and thinking in order to have faith in God, and in Jesus Christ. You don't have to be a nutjob, and have a "real men love Jesus" sticker on your truck.
There is a lot to be said for intelligent, quiet, humble faith. Love for God that does not boast or yell from the Hilltops. There is a middle ground, where you can believe in God, but not lose yourself in the process.
Anyway, it just seems to me that people are presenting these issues as choice:
1. God is supreme and nothing else can explain anything else in the world
2. Science is the only way.
There are people who embrace both camps. Quietly accepting scientific evidence, knowing that God was, is, and always will be in control. Not understanding all the "ins and outs" of the Creation, universe, and life in general, but maintaining a Faith that it all was created by God. We know the earth is way older than 6000 years. But we also know that God's ways are so high above our ways, as the Heavens are above the Earth.
So please consider, not having to take it or leave it. There is a life in which you can have a respect for scientific advances, and a love for God, who made such advances possible.
Remember the story in which Jesus shows His wounds so that they may believe and He sais "Blessed are those who have NOT seen yet believe". Sorry, don't have the chapter/verse in front of me...but I'm sure someone will clarify If i have misquoted.
Anyway, to recap, you can believe in God and you can believe scientific advances. Faith in God does not equate becoming a "Sheeple". You have spirituality in you- it's just a matter of figuring it all out for yourselves.
You can be a Christian believer, full of spirituality, without being an extremist nut job bible thumper. In fact, the most Godly and devout Christians I have encountered have been quiet and humble in their Faith.
It's OK, VP. I'm not condemning believers. I don't think thy're all crazy. There's maybe three or four who aren't. The crazy ones are obvious. They're the ones standing on hilltops in headrags shouting and waving AK-47s.
They're the ones out in the hills of West Virginia (used to live there-WOW!) waving snakes around and chugging strychnine.
They're the ones, who-like I suspect BeeGee is-getting old and scared and trying to cover all the bases as time draws near "just in case."
You are pretty much right about me being forced into Catholicism. I can pick on "CatLicks" because I was born into them-I was one. I had no choice at the time. My father dragged me to church every sunday, enrolled me in CCD classes after church and tried for years to get me to carry the whole guilt trip that's been laid on Catholics' backs for as long as anybody can remember. Y'know- that "S#!t happens because we deserve it" self-flagellation?
This guy who pounded into my head what is right and what is wrong. What is a mortal sin and what is a menial sin. This guy who (at least in my little kid eyes) was so tough he'd eat his own crap or chew off his own arm to avoid taking the easy way out of anything ("Never cop out! was his mantra)-ended up eating a 12-gauge shotgun just a couple days shy of his 75th birthday. You being a Catholic know that suicide is unforgiveable. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200, straight into hell you go on the express elevator....
So much for his convictions. What value has all that "righteous Christian teaching" to me now?
"Do as I say, not as I do" was the message I learned from that.
The ones who are teaching it don't even follow it. At least not when they think nobody's watching. Hypocrites. You may think that my father's suicide pretty much predisposed me against belief in any religion-but that was just one of the nails in that particular coffin. I'm sure I'd have no problem with god were I to find that he does exist-it's his followers that creep the bejebus out of me.
I didn't rebel so much as I got completely disgusted with the Catholic church.
I mentioned awhile back that the pope (I think it was back in 2008?) had announced that the church was "updating" some sins to fit the times.
Of all the #%@$in' nerve.... (I'll cover my thoughts on this in another thread...)
Priests committting acts of sin that I don't even want to go into on this thread. against CHILDREN!!! ("Never before and never again will I love you with the intensity of a shepherd for his flock." (Galatians 13:4). Crap.
So much for taking THAT guys word for it. Yeah..I wanna believe in THAT s#!t. O-Tay.
I ran from any association with that bunch as fast as I could.
You know what? #@$%em. #@$%emall. They're defective and defective things get returned to their maker, right? If I had my way? Wanna know what happens if you touch a little boy in his no-no spot? *boom* headshot! It doesn't matter if you molest because of nature or nurture; we don't want your genes passed on. Eye for an Eye. Read your own testament, mother#@%&er.
Hmmm Baptist huh, what a moron? Tell me that the Baptist is the only true religion and you want to "save" me even though I am Catholic and confess my sins and ask forgiveness when ever I feel the need. You my friend win the prize *ding ding ding* everyone is going to hell unless of course you happen to be Baptist. Oh yeah and you HATE homosexuals, abortion, and premaritial sex, oh one more thing INDEPENDANT THOUGHT OF ANY KIND. You can go screw yourself while reading the bible. I have been to a few Baptist Churches and this is not always the case but for the most part you are all a bunch of sheep who pass judgement in the place of God for anyone different from you.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe a predetermined number of people will vanish into God's Kingdom at the same instant and the rest of us will be left behind to endure the tribulation (that's gonna suck). The Witnesses believe they are the only potential vanishers, but unfortunately the number of Witnesses today well exceeds said predertimined number (I think is 44,000 but not sure and don't feel like looking it). They also believe at the end of the tribulation the aforementioned vanishers are going to come back to earth and fight for our souls(yeah I read the Left Behind series). Funny thing, too. They're NOT a religion. They're a BUSINESS. Just ask 'em.
You guys don't recognize the flag of my country? The one I served to protect? The flag that flippin' ENABLES YOU TO PRACTICE YOUR BELIEF IN THE FIRST @$#&IN' PLACE!
Kiss my ass, you hypocrites.
Oh yeh, and pay your d##n taxes.
*Screaming like Sam Kinison*
The PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE CAN"T EVEN DECIDE WHAT IS RIGHT!!!! HOW THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO FIGURE IT OUT!???
I can't. I can only use what makes sense to me to decide what is right and good. Yeah, I came here wanting to speak to people about god and faith-hoping someone who's head wasn't screwed on sideways could possibly give me something I could DO something with. (Y'know, a reason why they believe-because I figure if I can figure out WHY people believe-then maybe I can work on making sense of the belief.)
Something I could learn. What the hell was I thinking?
If not for folks like you, VP and a couple others here- I'da left this bleating borg-fest shortly after getting here.
I'm reminded of a recent Shooter Jennings song. In it are lyrics that pretty much describe my belief.
"You don't have to read the good book/To be a good man just the same..."
That's exactly what I mean when I say that a man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
The thundering herd?
Pfft. And you tell me they're not crazy.
/shrug.