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quote:
Originally posted by vergerbear:
Don't forget the GREAT IMBECILE himself, Ronni Reagan. Napped through eight years while his slave-to-designer-clothes wife and her astrologer and Don Regan ran the country (into monumental deficits).


Ron's tax cuts increased tax revenue from $500 billion to $1 trillion. Wish we had the millions of jobs he added. Millions in central Europe still honor him for their freedom.

It took a Carter to cause a Reagan. Obama's successor must be a real winner!
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All of the worst presidents in history won't add up to how obama has already f*&^ed up the country.


I don't like anything Obama has done, but this statement is such a gross exageration that it shows either intentional hyperbole or a complete lack of knowledge about past presidents. Obama isn't nearly as bad as some we've had, and certainly not as bad as all the bad ones put together.
Obama is by far one of the best president's we have had (considering the smoldering heap of ashes this country was left in by the former administration). At least he is out moving and shaking and trying to improve this country to what he and his administration agree is best for this country. It seems that past administrations never got anything accomplished compared to Obama.

I hate to admit this, but the deep down dislike (or even in some cases hatred) that some people have for Obama is rooted in racism and bigotry and they can not stand the fact that a young, polished, Harvard educated Black man is in the highest position of power in this great country. Its a hard pill to swallow but you need to get use to having more women, gays, and ethnicities in positions of power because its going to be happening more frequent in the near future.
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Obama is by far one of the best president's we have had


No he isn't. Bush's terrible legacy is very real, but doesn't give Obama a pass for doubling down on his mistakes. "Moving and shaking and trying to improve this country" is also not an acceptable pass. We reward children with "an 'A' for effort," not presidents.

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I hate to admit this, but the deep down dislike (or even in some cases hatred) that some people have for Obama is rooted in racism and bigotry and they can not stand the fact that a young, polished, Harvard educated Black man is in the highest position of power in this great country.


This, no doubt, exists at some level, but the scapegoat from left is getting old. Obama has made no improvements to our situation, and does not deserve credit for something he hasn't done just to appease white-liberal-guilt.
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Bush's terrible legacy is very real, but doesn't give Obama a pass for doubling down on his mistakes.


1) What is Obama doubling down on from Bush's mistakes?

2) You GOP/Tea Party morons need to understand that Obama inherited 2 wars, a financial meltdown that almost sent this country into a depression, a country with an infrastructure that is crumbling before us, and a healthcare system that left unchanged is going to bank rupt this country. I apologize on his behalf that he can't seem to fix it in the 1.25 year time frame that you had set for him. He is just the worst President ever isn't he?

3) I give him an A+ and boo hoo all you like he is gonna be your president for another term too, watch and see.
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What is Obama doubling down on from Bush's mistakes?


Still spending like a drunken sailor, and virtually no change in foreign policy.

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Obama inherited 2 wars, a financial meltdown that almost sent this country into a depression


See above. He has made no steps in the right direction to correct this.

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a country with an infrastructure that is crumbling before us, and a healthcare system that left unchanged is going to bank rupt this country.


Most infrastructure projects (roads, bridges, etc..) are funded by state budgets, not federal. Healthcare needed to be changed, but not in the direction of offering more stuff we can't afford and running up deficits to pay for it.

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He is just the worst President ever isn't he?


No. There are several leading him in that category, in my opinion.

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he is gonna be your president for another term too, watch and see.


He's probably about a 2.5 to 1 underdog to win re-election right now, but alot can change in a few years. I really don't know how he'll do. He'd get killed if the election were this November.
Foreign policy changed worldwide the day Bush left the oval office, just getting that moron out the door put the world at ease with the US. Unfortunately doing nothing like I guess you suggest about our countries problems, letting capitalism fix itself (which unregulated capitalism got us in this mess to begin with)and healthcare fix itself is going to bankrupt us and unfortunately it costs money to clean up messes like he is doing, so yeah he might be spending money like a drunk sailor, but one way or the other we gotta clean up the mess.

Almost every state and county gov in the US is barely getting by, they are going to need Fed dollars to get by on just like they always have and always will.

Dolemitejb I have to hand it to you, you like to debate. I don't know what ignorant Sarah Palin Fox News Poll you watched but I highly doubt there is anyone in America that can beat Obama in a debate or an election, I would like to see that poll. I wish you could please name one viable GOP/Tea Party candidate that will have a snowballs chance in hell of winning in November or 2012.

Also too, you gotta give things time, he has only been in office a little over a year.
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Foreign policy changed worldwide the day Bush left the oval office, just getting that moron out the door put the world at ease with the US.


No. There has been little change. In fact, he's doubled down in Afghanistan. More of the same.

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letting capitalism fix itself (which unregulated capitalism got us in this mess to begin with)


This is patently false. Capitalism hasn't been practiced in America for over 100 years, so it couldn't have caused the mess.

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unfortunately it costs money to clean up messes like he is doing, so yeah he might be spending money like a drunk sailor, but one way or the other we gotta clean up the mess.


You cannot spend your way out of a lack of money. I don't see how that isn't glaringly obvious.

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I don't know what ignorant Sarah Palin Fox News Poll you watched but I highly doubt there is anyone in America that can beat Obama in a debate or an election, I would like to see that poll.


I don't watch Fox - don't care for it. Obama could easily be embarrassed in a debate, not that he would allow himself to be in a debate with anyone that he knew could do it. As for electability, he's still pretty strong, but no longer a favorite. Independent voters will likely swing back in the direction of another GWB type Republican who promises to reign in Obama's spending spree, and will then proceed to spend 4 years spending us into further poverty.
Afghanistan - You people were all about going in to that place and kicking butt back in 2001 until Bush got some crazy idea to invade Iraq looking for WMDs we never found (however I am glad and proud we got Saddam out of power, so it was well worth it, good job Bush on that one) so we diverted attention and resources away from the area and the Taliban rebounded and regrouped and regained strength, so Obama is left with one choice and that is to "double down" the effort and win this war because Afghanistan with the Taliban in power is a breeding ground for terrorist training camps and radical islamic idealism.

Capitalism has failed plenty of times in the past when it was left unregulated (e.g. the GREAT DEPRESSION and other recessions). Capitalism is what makes this country great, but left unchecked by Big Brother then some fat cat(s) (like AIG) are going to abuse the system and problems are going to ensue.

Fiscal Policy - Sitting around doing nothing is not going to get you out of a mess either, it will probably just make it worse. Healthcare unfixed is going to bankrupt this country as more Americans are getting older and fatter, we are gonig to drain Medicare dry with our health problems from unhealthy living. So doing nothing is not the answer, we have to spend money, and reform the broke system.

Its nearly impossible to beat Obama in a debate, he has proved himself to many times, it will be a tough person to win over him.
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Afghanistan - You people were all about going in to that place and kicking butt back in 2001 until Bush got some crazy idea to invade Iraq looking for WMDs we never found (however I am glad and proud we got Saddam out of power, so it was well worth it, good job Bush on that one) so we diverted attention and resources away from the area and the Taliban rebounded and regrouped and regained strength, so Obama is left with one choice and that is to "double down" the effort and win this war because Afghanistan with the Taliban in power is a breeding ground for terrorist training camps and radical islamic idealism.


What? This doesn't make any sense. Who is "you people?" We should have gone to Afghanistan in response to 9/11, finished, and left. We should have never been in Iraq, it was not "well worth it," and Bush deserves nothing but shame and ridicule for the mess he created. If there's something still left to be done in Afghanistan, do it and leave.

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Capitalism has failed plenty of times in the past when it was left unregulated (e.g. the GREAT DEPRESSION and other recessions). Capitalism is what makes this country great, but left unchecked by Big Brother then some fat cat(s) (like AIG) are going to abuse the system and problems are going to ensue.


Nonsense. The government caused the depression by manipulating interest rates and interfering with markets - it was not a failure of capitalism. AIG received huge sums of money from the government - not capitalism. Please name a catastrophic failure of capitalism since it's so bad and there are so many.

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Sitting around doing nothing is not going to get you out of a mess either, it will probably just make it worse.


I don't want us to do nothing. I want the government to give us all our money back and let the market work.

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Healthcare unfixed is going to bankrupt this country as more Americans are getting older and fatter, we are gonig to drain Medicare dry with our health problems from unhealthy living.


Yes, healthcare needs to be changed. Obama changed it for the worse.

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Its nearly impossible to beat Obama in a debate


That because he's debating politicians as opposed to people who understand how the world actually works.
"You People" is you GOP/Tea Partiers/Nay Sayers

We did go to Afghanistan in response to 9/11, before we ever even went to Iraq. Now you aren't making since, first you say he's "doubled down in Afghanistan" in a negative manner like he shouldn't and now you are saying "If there's something stil left to be done in Afghanistan, do it and leave." Which one do you want him to do? Finish up the job which requires "doubling down" on the effort or walk off and leave it? Make up your mind.

It was well worth going to Iraq to get Saddam out of power, he was an unstable dictator with a cache of weapons and money that could be used to inflict damage on the US through supporting terrorists and giving them training, money and weapons. I think Iraq was well worth it and I can't stand to think that those young American soldiers lives that was lost to free those Iraqi people from a ruthless tyrant dictator's government was wasted on an effort that wasn't worth it.

The great depression was caused by 1) the stock market crashing on black tuesday due to the government allowing capitalism to run free, thank God the Feds came up with the Securities and Exchange commision to govern this now, we have't had a break down since and 2) Bank failures caused once again by capitalism running unchecked by the feds, thank god for FDIC now so if it happens again these deposits will be reimbursed to their holders and 3) Severe drought 4) People afraid to spend money. Not one place can you find in history that the great depression was caused by the government manipulating interest rates and markets because they didn't do that much back in those days and unfortunely the Feds have to now because the past system didn't work.

How did Obama change it for the worse? Any change at all was better than what we had going. What do you suggest we do to fix it? I agree it wasn't exactly perfect but at least we heading in a direction and there are gonig to be more changes to get it working more effectively over the next couple of years. You can't always hit the bulls eye on the first throw but you don't hit anything if you don't throw at all.
quote:
We did go to Afghanistan in response to 9/11, before we ever even went to Iraq. Now you aren't making since, first you say he's "doubled down in Afghanistan" in a negative manner like he shouldn't and now you are saying "If there's something stil left to be done in Afghanistan, do it and leave." Which one do you want him to do? Finish up the job which requires "doubling down" on the effort or walk off and leave it? Make up your mind.


Afghanistan should not take 8+ years to wrap up. If he had said "give me two months," then maybe I could give him a pass. Instead, he seems to be content with perpetual occupation, and with a higher level of troops than before.

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It was well worth going to Iraq to get Saddam out of power, he was an unstable dictator with a cache of weapons and money that could be used to inflict damage on the US through supporting terrorists and giving them training, money and weapons. I think Iraq was well worth it


Fine, whatever. I have learned that people who believe it is our job to invade foreign nations because "we're the good guys" cannot be convinved otherwise. But, we're going to gave to return to the draft and tax our citizens at 80%+ to have a military large enough to occupy every square inch of "bad guy" occupied land in the world.

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The great depression was caused by 1) the stock market crashing on black tuesday due to the government allowing capitalism to run free, thank God the Feds came up with the Securities and Exchange commision to govern this now, we have't had a break down since and 2) Bank failures caused once again by capitalism running unchecked by the feds, thank god for FDIC now so if it happens again these deposits will be reimbursed to their holders and 3) Severe drought 4) People afraid to spend money. Not one place can you find in history that the great depression was caused by the government manipulating interest rates and markets because they didn't do that much back in those days and unfortunely the Feds have to now because the past system didn't work.


Completely and totally wrong.

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How did Obama change it for the worse? Any change at all was better than what we had going.


No. The government now has way too much control over healthcare which will make create an inferior product in the long run.

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You can't always hit the bulls eye on the first throw but you don't hit anything if you don't throw at all.


What a silly platitude. As I said earlier, we give children "an 'A' for effort," not presidents. Stealing trillions from taxpayers and then saying "well, I tried" is not acceptable.
Obama can only do what Congress allows. Congress is the problem, and we keep voting the same people in. They stay there and make too many friends. They become obliged to lobbiest and donors. We should allow them one or two terms and then vote them out. I do have to applaude Obama for the Health Care bill. Good or bad, he got it done. People complained about social security, medicare,and medicaid. We need to see if it works. The pundits probably never the bill. I doubt congress actually read it either.
How can you applaud someone for getting something done "good or bad"? It's going to ne terribly bad for our country. Did you notice the corruption and vote buying that was used to "get it done"? How can you applaud that? I do agree that Congress is the problem. Hopefully Americans have woke up and will start to remedy this problem in November.
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I hate to admit this, but the deep down dislike (or even in some cases hatred) that some people have for Obama is rooted in racism and bigotry and they can not stand the fact that a young, polished, Harvard educated Black man is in the highest position of power in this great country.


RACE has absolutely NOTHING to do with my dislike for the man. I'm a white male, born in Alabama, and I voted for Alan Keyes when he ran for President...so don't try to play the 'race card' with me. Obama and his cabinet HAVE NO IDEA what is 'best for America'....only what is best for their personal agendas.
Did I specifically say "Dogsoldier0513"? Pretty sure I didn't, I said with "some people."

Also too you have to be crazy to think that RACE has nothing to do with it when I have friends, family memebers, coworkers, and other people I know in North Alabama that told me that they didn't vote for the man bc he is black and they don't like the man bc he is black. So don't tell me race has nothing to do with it bc it does. I have seen it first hand. They would say the same thing about Alan Keyes if he was in office.
quote:
Originally posted by PowerGen81:
Obama is by far one of the best president's we have had (considering the smoldering heap of ashes this country was left in by the former administration). At least he is out moving and shaking and trying to improve this country to what he and his administration agree is best for this country. It seems that past administrations never got anything accomplished compared to Obama.

I hate to admit this, but the deep down dislike (or even in some cases hatred) that some people have for Obama is rooted in racism and bigotry and they can not stand the fact that a young, polished, Harvard educated Black man is in the highest position of power in this great country. Its a hard pill to swallow but you need to get use to having more women, gays, and ethnicities in positions of power because its going to be happening more frequent in the near future.


Obama only LOOKS black. He's only black when it suits him, just like he's only Christian when it suits him. It all depends on who's listening at that time. He's no more black than he is white. Now, if he had been touted as the first bi-racial president, that might have been accurate. It definitely would have been more accurate than "black." If a person's ethnicity or sexual orientation are their most well-known attributes, that's not saying much for that person. Your post is nonsensical.
quote:
Originally posted by PowerGen81:
Afghanistan - You people were all about going in to that place and kicking butt back in 2001 until Bush got some crazy idea to invade Iraq looking for WMDs we never found


That's a lie. Evidence was found of WMD's. US Army (RETIRED) Major General Gary Harrell stated publicly that anyone who says there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is lying or stupid. He was there. His men found proof of WMD's: portable labs, biological agents, etc. Liberal-run media didn't report this because they don't want any truth but their own to be told. Bush was going off the intel he was provided. Here's a scenario for you: The police call you and tell you they're suspicious that you might be manufacturing meth in your home and will be coming to check IN TWO WEEKS. So, you move your lab to your neighbor's house and wait for everything to blow over. The thing with Iraq is it didn't blow over. Ding dong, Hussein is dead. Under who's watch was this? While Barry shakes hands with communists and tells them we'll get rid of a third of our nuclear capabilities, then he comes out this week and says terrorists pose a nuclear threat to the US. Make some sense, Barry. You're starting to sound like Biden.
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If a person's ethnicity or sexual orientation are their most well-known attributes, that's not saying much for that person. Your post is nonsensical.


How can you say my post about race being a factor in what people think about Obama be "nonsensical" if I have seen people not like him first hand because of the color of his skin. My post is fact and it can be proved. I am not saying that race is the main reason people don't like him and people are allowed to disagree with him, but race is sometimes the deciding factor unfortunately with some Americans.
quote:
Originally posted by PowerGen81:
quote:

Bush's terrible legacy is very real, but doesn't give Obama a pass for doubling down on his mistakes.


1) What is Obama doubling down on from Bush's mistakes?

2) You GOP/Tea Party morons need to understand that Obama inherited 2 wars, a financial meltdown that almost sent this country into a depression, a country with an infrastructure that is crumbling before us, and a healthcare system that left unchanged is going to bank rupt this country. I apologize on his behalf that he can't seem to fix it in the 1.25 year time frame that you had set for him. He is just the worst President ever isn't he?

3) I give him an A+ and boo hoo all you like he is gonna be your president for another term too, watch and see.


And, very little of the stimulus funds were spent on infrastructure. Most went to support state and local bureaucrats and for old wish list items like aquariums, museums and botanical gardens.
quote:
Originally posted by PowerGen81:
"You People" is you GOP/Tea Partiers/Nay Sayers

We did go to Afghanistan in response to 9/11, before we ever even went to Iraq. Now you aren't making since, first you say he's "doubled down in Afghanistan" in a negative manner like he shouldn't and now you are saying "If there's something stil left to be done in Afghanistan, do it and leave." Which one do you want him to do? Finish up the job which requires "doubling down" on the effort or walk off and leave it? Make up your mind.

It was well worth going to Iraq to get Saddam out of power, he was an unstable dictator with a cache of weapons and money that could be used to inflict damage on the US through supporting terrorists and giving them training, money and weapons. I think Iraq was well worth it and I can't stand to think that those young American soldiers lives that was lost to free those Iraqi people from a ruthless tyrant dictator's government was wasted on an effort that wasn't worth it.

The great depression was caused by 1) the stock market crashing on black tuesday due to the government allowing capitalism to run free, thank God the Feds came up with the Securities and Exchange commision to govern this now, we have't had a break down since and 2) Bank failures caused once again by capitalism running unchecked by the feds, thank god for FDIC now so if it happens again these deposits will be reimbursed to their holders and 3) Severe drought 4) People afraid to spend money. Not one place can you find in history that the great depression was caused by the government manipulating interest rates and markets because they didn't do that much back in those days and unfortunely the Feds have to now because the past system didn't work.

How did Obama change it for the worse? Any change at all was better than what we had going. What do you suggest we do to fix it? I agree it wasn't exactly perfect but at least we heading in a direction and there are gonig to be more changes to get it working more effectively over the next couple of years. You can't always hit the bulls eye on the first throw but you don't hit anything if you don't throw at all.


The stock market crashed because too much credit was extended to buy stocks, up to 90 percent. I assume you're joking about the SEC, right. They couldn't catch Bernie Madoff with illustrated instructions (literally). The high tariffs passed by Hoover turned a recession into a depression. The Dust Bowl can along later -- added to the misery, but wasn't a cause. The length of the Depression was caused by government excessive spending, which sucked the oxygen out of any possible recovery. Does that sound familiar?
quote:
Originally posted by PowerGen81:
quote:
If a person's ethnicity or sexual orientation are their most well-known attributes, that's not saying much for that person. Your post is nonsensical.


How can you say my post about race being a factor in what people think about Obama be "nonsensical" if I have seen people not like him first hand because of the color of his skin. My post is fact and it can be proved. I am not saying that race is the main reason people don't like him and people are allowed to disagree with him, but race is sometimes the deciding factor unfortunately with some Americans.


The dude is half white. His black half is no better than his white half which I can't stand so how do you come to your conclusions? 99% of the people who can't stand him, can't stand either half. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by PowerGen81:
quote:
If a person's ethnicity or sexual orientation are their most well-known attributes, that's not saying much for that person. Your post is nonsensical.


How can you say my post about race being a factor in what people think about Obama be "nonsensical" if I have seen people not like him first hand because of the color of his skin. My post is fact and it can be proved. I am not saying that race is the main reason people don't like him and people are allowed to disagree with him, but race is sometimes the deciding factor unfortunately with some Americans.

Of all the rebuttal I posted, you pick one thing about which to post a reply. Why didn't you address the real meat of either of my posts? Do you have a problem with facts? By the way, I spoke with a Soldier last night who is about to leave for his THIRD tour in Iraq. He verified the existence of WMD's in Iraq and knows which surrounding countries are storing said weapons. His information came directly from members of the Iraqi army.

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