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Obama Drops 'Creator' From Declaration Again
Wednesday, 20 Oct 2010 02:46 PM

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Either President Barack Obama isn't familiar with the words “endowed by their Creator” when quoting the Declaration of Independence, or he doesn't subscribe to that part of the wording that describes people’s intrinsic rights. At a Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee dinner Monday in Rockville, Md., Obama again either misquoted the words of the most famous document in American history or he purposely omitted them, CNS News reports.

For reportedly the second time in a month, Obama said that "each of us are endowed with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

The Declaration of Independence, however, actually reads, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”

Conservatives contend that Obama's inability to credit God for the rights reflects his belief that, if rights come from the government instead of a creator, the government can take them away, too.


Once is a mistake, twice it's on purpose.
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This is at least the third time.

Back on Sept. 15, in a speech before the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute’s Annual Awards Gala.

Then, on Sept. 22, President Obama spoke at a fundraiser for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

And again on Monday at a fundraiser for the Maryland Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee in Rockville, MD.

No mistake.
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Originally posted by gracies old man:
Flo-

If you take into account the time and context which and by whom the Declaration was written, it is obvious the intention was God, the Creator of the universe, not Allah, Hari, Buddha, etc,


You need to do a little research on the founding fathers. Many of which were deists, and didn't believe that Christianity was any more valid a religion than any of the others. As a matter of fact, the man that wrote the clause was a deist. You will not find the Christian religion referred to in the DoI or the Constitution because these folks believe and established this nation as secular for a reason. So anyone has the right to worship who they want. Not just Christians. They realized if they established an official religion, they would be no better off than the country they revolted against to gain their independence.
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Originally posted by Loki:
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Originally posted by gracies old man:
Flo-

If you take into account the time and context which and by whom the Declaration was written, it is obvious the intention was God, the Creator of the universe, not Allah, Hari, Buddha, etc,


You need to do a little research on the founding fathers. Many of which were deists, and didn't believe that Christianity was any more valid a religion than any of the others. As a matter of fact, the man that wrote the clause was a deist. You will not find the Christian religion referred to in the DoI or the Constitution because these folks believe and established this nation as secular for a reason. So anyone has the right to worship who they want. Not just Christians. They realized if they established an official religion, they would be no better off than the country they revolted against to gain their independence.


Thank you for saving me the time to write that.
TJs original quote:

"All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable."

Does that change the meaning?

I think Jefferson thought that the separation was necessary to prevent religion from poisoning government.

TJ: "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

.
Last edited by JuanHunt
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"their Creator" does not necessarily mean God (of the Holy Bible). It means whatever a person believes in.


Yes, and Barack claims to be a Christian, yet refuses to mention a Creator in any way.

It could mean any omnipotent being, but for him, it would be God, unless he has decided that he is god now.
He wasn't QUOTING! If he HAD been quoting it, he would not have used the words "each of us", he would have used the words "All men". He was paraphrasing, just as most people use the term "separation of church and state". They are paraphrasing from Jefferson's letter which actually says "separation between church and state". You people are nitpicking and trying to find anything you can twist to make Obama look bad. All you are doing though, is reinforcing your unreasonable anger. We who know better are not affected at all.
Now ONO, had Bush done the same thing, you would have had a fit.

Paraphrasing does not exclude the Creator.

That would be like paraphrasing the First Amendment and forgetting to mention religion or assembly.

quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Mangling just meant he was not a good speaker. He never left off entire parts of a speech.
Obama did it so he could get the more radical fringe left to go along with him as they think he has become too 'soft'.

Being a good speaker doesn't equal intelligence just as being a bad one doesn't equal stupidity.

I can't speak in front of a large group of people, but I don't consider myself to be stupid.
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Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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Bush's policies didn't get us 10%+ unemployment or in debt to our ears to China.


Actually, yes they did. Obama's doing a terrible job as president, but the economic collapse is Bush's failure.


Okay. I can see that realization of facts isn't present here, so I'll just go talk to someone else about something else somewhere else.
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Okay. I can see that realization of facts isn't present here, so I'll just go talk to someone else about something else somewhere else.


Without getting into the mountain of evidence of how bad of a president Bush was, I'll stick to one simple item. TARP passed in October of '08. That means that the Bush administration was responding to a perceived financial calamity before Obama was even elected, much less assumed office.
Getting back to the "Creator" issue, one must remember that Obama once slept through the "Gawd-danging America" Black Liberation sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Remember that Black Liberation theology is a subset of Liberation theology.

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This original synthesis of event and interpretation can be dissolved and reformed continually: the community "interprets" the events on the basis of its "experience" and thus discovers what its "praxis" should be. The same idea appears in a somewhat modified form in connection with the concept of the people" where the conciliar emphasis on the "People of God" is transformed into a marxist myth . The experiences of the 'people" elucidate Scripture. Here "people" is the antithesis of the hierarchy, the antithesis of all institutions, which are seen as oppressive power. Ultimately anyone who participates in the class struggle is a member of the "people" the "Church of the people" becomes the antagonist of the hierarchical Church.

http://www.christendom-awake.o.../liberationtheol.htm
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So Bush passed TARP all by himself? Who voted for it? Who voted against it? Which political party held the majority in Congress in 2008? Congress votes. The President signs or vetos.


The fact that TARP was passed is not my point. My point is that TARP had to be passed, at least according to politicians, because of a financial crisis that occured in '08 - after 8 years of Bush's presidency. I fully acknowledge that Obama is doing a terrible job as president, but the economic crash is undeniably a product of the Bush Administration.
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Originally posted by Loki:
You need to do a little research on the founding fathers. Many of which were deists, and didn't believe that Christianity was any more valid a religion than any of the others. As a matter of fact, the man that wrote the clause was a deist. You will not find the Christian religion referred to in the DoI or the Constitution because these folks believe and established this nation as secular for a reason. So anyone has the right to worship who they want. Not just Christians. They realized if they established an official religion, they would be no better off than the country they revolted against to gain their independence.


No, not "many were deists"...very few could be properly called deists.

Even Jefferson, the deists/anti-religious poster boy, claimed to be a Christian.

In a letter to a Founder, Dr. Benjamin Rush, Jefferson said:

"the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you, that one day or other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others"


Even Jefferson was not simply a "diest"...his problems with Christianity had more to do with the corruptions of religion. He certainly was not an orthodox believer, but by his very words claims to be a Christian and if anyone says differently "know nothing of my opinions".

In any event, trying to portray all the founding fathers as "deist" or anti-religion is woefully inaccurate.
Renegade quote -
"No, not "many were deists"...very few could be properly called deists.

Even Jefferson, the deists/anti-religious poster boy, claimed to be a Christian.

In a letter to a Founder, Dr. Benjamin Rush, Jefferson said:

"the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you, that one day or other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others"


Even Jefferson was not simply a "diest"...his problems with Christianity had more to do with the corruptions of religion. He certainly was not an orthodox believer, but by his very words claims to be a Christian and if anyone says differently "know nothing of my opinions".

In any event, trying to portray all the founding fathers as "deist" or anti-religion is woefully inaccurate."


-------------------------------------------

*Thank you for saving me the time to write that.
John Adams

The second President wrote to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.

However, Adams is often quoted as saying, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" However, here's the complete quote in an April 19, 1817, letter to Thomas Jefferson:

Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

As a Unitarian, Adams flatly denied the doctrine of eternal punishment believing all would eventually enter heaven. (Many Unitarians reject the Trinity and most accept all religions as valid expressions of faith.) But being a good Unitarian, he was certainly open to the teachings of Christ

Jesus is benevolence personified, an example for all men. . . . The Christian religion, in its primitive purity and simplicity, I have entertained for more than sixty years. It is the religion of reason, equity, and love; it is the religion of the head and the heart (Letter to F.A. Van Der Kemp, December 27, 1816).


Samuel Adams

Samuel Adams organized the Boston Tea Party, and served as Governor of Massachusetts, a delegate to the Continental congress, and a signer of the Declaration of Independence.

In his 1772 work, The Rights of the Colonists, Adams wrote:

II. The Rights of the Colonists as Christians.

The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.

In his Last Will and Testament he wrote:

Principally, and first of all, I resign my soul to the Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying on the merits of Jesus Christ for the pardon of my sins.

Benjamin Franklin

In his autobiography, Franklin describes himself as "a thorough Deist." "I began to be regarded, by pious souls, with horror, either as an apostate or an Atheist."

According to a Deist publication, a Deist is "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason." Deists reject the Judeo-Christian accounts of God as well as the Bible. They do believe that God is eternal and good, but flatly reject having a relationship with Him through Christ.

Franklin certainly believed in the providence of God. In his famous speech to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on June 28, 1787:

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth•that God governs in the affairs of men... If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground unseen by him, is it probable an empire could arise without his aid? I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building not better than the builders of Babel.

Just five months before his death, he wrote to Dr. Stiles, the President of Yale, who had questioned Franklin about his faith:

I believe in one God, the Creator of the universe; that he governs it by his Providence; that be ought to be worshipped; that the. most acceptable service we can render to him is doing good to his other children; that the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points of all sound religion, and I regard them as you do, in whatever sect I meet with them. As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think his system of morals and his religion, as be left them to us, the best the world ever saw, or is like to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it.

Alexander Hamilton

The Episcopalian authored many of the Federalist Papers, signed the Constitution, and became the first Secretary of the Treasury. In an April 1802 letter to James A. Bayard, Hamilton proposed The Christian Constitutional Society:

In my opinion, the present constitution is the standard to which we are to cling. Under its banner bona fide must we combat our political foes, rejecting all changes but through the channel itself provided for amendments. By these general views of the subject have my reflections been guided. I now offer you the outline of the plan they have suggested. Let an association be formed to be denominated "The Christian Constitutional Society," its object to be first: The support of the Christian religion. second: The support of the United States.

Hamilton was shot and killed by Aaron Burr in a duel on July 12, 1804. His last dying words reportedly were:

I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.

Patrick Henry

Best known for his "give me liberty or give me death" speech on March 23, 1775, he became the first governor of Virginia.

One of his most famous quotes, cannot be verified, although it's used by many Christian ministers: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!" It's not found anywhere in his recorded writings or speeches.

However, here's a verified quote from a letter to his daughter dated August 20, 1796:

Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast.

And in his will

This is all the inheritance I give to my dear family. The religion of Christ will give them one which will make them rich indeed.

John Jay

One of the authors of the Federalist Papers and first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, Jay wrote to Rev. Uzal Ogden, on February 14, 1796:

I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds. . . .

And in an April 23, 1811, letter to John Bristed, April 23, 1811, he wrote:

While in France . . . I do not recollect to have had more than two conversations with atheists about their tenents. The first was this: I was at a large party, of which were several of that description. They spoke freely and contemptuously of religion. I took no part in the conversation. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did.

Thomas Jefferson

The writer of the Declaration of Independence and the third President of the United States wrote to Charles Thomson in 1816:

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.

Jefferson was a Deist who respected Christ's teachings, but rejected His divinity, His miracles, and His resurrection. In a letter to William Short dated April 13, 1820, he wrote:

I am a Materialist.

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to [Jesus] by His biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same Being. I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore to Him the former, and leave the latter to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of His disciples. Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great . . . corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus.

In separating Jesus divine and human natures, Jefferson wrote to John Adams, January 24, 1814 that the divine aspects of Christ were "the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills."

And so he compiled The Jefferson Bible: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth Extracted Textually from the Gospels. Jefferson simply cut out anything of a supernatural or miraculous nature and so his Bible ends:

Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen cloths with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus, And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

George Washington

The first President's faith is a bit harder to pin down.

Many Christian writers and commentators point to Washington's twenty-four page manuscript book, titled, Daily Sacrifice. It was found in April 1891 among a collection of Washington's papers in his confirmed handwriting when he was about the age of twenty. In it he prays:

Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

. . . in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life.

Let me live according to those holy rules which thou hast this day prescribed in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life, bless O Lord, all the people of this land, from the highest to the lowest, particularly those whom thou has appointed to rule over us in church & state. continue thy goodness to me this night. These weak petitions I humbly implore thee to hear accept and ans. for the sake of thy Dear Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

In his Speech to Delaware Indian Chiefs on May 12, 1779, Washington said:

You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.

However, during his presidency (1789-1797) and in his later life, Washington is not recorded referring to Jesus Christ and rarely to God. He preferred titles such as "the Divine Author of our blessed Religion," "Almighty Being," "Providence" and "Grand Designer" (all terms from Deist beliefs).

Washington also used the title "Supreme Architect" (a Freemasonary term of which he became a devout member, served as the head of the original Alexandria Lodge No. 22, and presided over the laying of the U.S. Capitol in a Mason apron).

According to Bishop White, Washington's pastor for nearly 25 years at the Protestant Episcopal Church of America, as well as Washington's adopted daughter Nelly Custis-Lewis, the President would leave the service before communion was served. (The Eucharist or Holy Communion is considered an essential part of salvation for Catholics and for many members of litergical churches.)

Lewis however defended her step-father's faith in a letter:

I never witnessed his private devotions. I never inquired about them. I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, "that they may be seen of men" [Matthew 6:5]. He communed with his God in secret [Matthew 6:6].

Thomas Jefferson was less charitable:

[Washington] had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice" (Jefferson's Works, Vol. iv., p. 572).
Gouveneur Morris was the apparent author of the Constitution, a signer of it, and the most active voice at the Constitutional Convention in 1787 (speaking 173 times). In his commentaries of 1790 and 1791, Morris wrote, "Religion is the only solid basis of good morals. Therefore, education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man toward God."

Fisher Ames, the author of the First Amendment, wrote in 1801 that it would be a grave mistake to let the Bible out of the public schools.

President Thomas Jefferson held another job at the time he was president. He was the superintendent of schools in Washington, D.C. He required only two books to be taught in the schools: The Holy Bible and Watts' Hymnal.

The first session of Congress in September of 1774 began with three hours of prayer, (to whom were they praying?). The day after the Bill of Rights was passed in 1789, Congress voted to have a "day of thanksgiving and praise unto almighty God."

The House Judiciary Committee in 1854 was asked to remove religion from public affairs. After investigating for one year, the committee concluded that at the time of the adoption of the Constitution and the Amendments, the universal sentiment was that Christianity should be encouraged, but not any one denomination. In this age, they said, there can be no substitute for Christianity.
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I miss BILL

Electraglide, I DO TOO! These right wing teabaggers are so busy trashing everything that they think every democrat is a die hard Obama fan. Not necessarily so. I mean, I would have voted for my dog to replace George W. Bush but I really wish Clinton could have ran again. He was a good ol boy from Arkansas at heart and knew how to kick some ass if needed. (Well he could do a lot of things with a piece of ass actually, he he but I digress) This video is a blast from the past where he served it to Chris Wallace on Fox News:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2513JFJsY
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Clinton only got his azz handed to him.

Watch the video BM (you know when I was little my grandma used the initials for bowel movement, is that where you got your screenname from? Considering your level at posting, you could have used shi* for brains). Clinton kicked ass and took names, well he actually had a pair something todays dems need to grow.
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Originally posted by rocky:
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Clinton only got his azz handed to him.

Watch the video BM (you know when I was little my grandma used the initials for bowel movement, is that where you got your screenname from? Considering your level at posting, you could have used shi* for brains). Clinton kicked ass and took names, well he actually had a pair something todays dems need to grow.


Clinton shrink government. Clinton decreased the annual deficit to zero, with a Rep Congress no less, truly a bipartisan statesman. Clinton is more qualified to be a member of the Tea Party than Reagan or Bush, or BushIIe.

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