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Why does this not surprise me in the least that Obama hates Israel and claims the Palenstinians are occupied. Obama did tell another lie that America believes Israel needs to revert back to pre 1967 borders. I am an American and I say to Obama you and your cronies are the only people who believe that junk. I cannot wait till election time.

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Please.  The "Obama hates Israel" canard would be laughable and pathetic if so many people who aren't really paying attention didn't actually believe it.  The idea that the 1967 border should be the starting point for negotiations for a Palestinian state is longstanding US policy.  Clinton talked about it, Bush talked about it, and now Obama talks about it and the right-wing noise machine flips out and tries to convince people that this is some kind of radical departure.

 

If you don't believe me, just click over and see what those real Israel-haters at the Anti-Defamation League had to say about the speech:

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/6045_62.htm

I can't wait either tada.

Obama is a total disgrace to our country and freedom. He hates the Jewish people.

his suggestions that they give back territory they won in self defense is insane. The

entire middle east  is in turmoil and there is no way the Isrealis can move back to

indefensible boundaries. We have no idea who will be in control of these arab states

in just a year from now. Why don't Obama demand Syria and Jordan to give back

the Palestinian lands in those countries. If you remember 1967, not Jimbo he wasn't

born yet, the Isrealis were attacked from all the surrounding arab states. They will

not and should not give these territories back. They fought and died for these lands.

Obama wants nothing more than to help his muslim brothers kill the Jews. This sounds

dangerously familiar. Please every American needs to wake up and see the true Evil

that Obama is embracing.

 

Your Pal Skippy

 

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

Again, there was nothing in Obama's speech that is a departure from longstanding US policy towards Israel.  Of course, the right has gotten so postmodern that they don't need to let objective reality get in the way of their outrage at anything Obama does or says.

Not a bad speech for a Anti-Semitic President. He's the first President ever to ask the

Isrealis to move back to the 1967 lines before they were attacked. This is a dangerous

time and he's a dangerous President.

 

Your Pal Skippy

 

Obama: "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states."

 

Notice that despite how it's been reported in some places, he didn't say the lines before the war.  Whenever any government official talks about the 1967 lines, they're always talking about post-war armistice lines, and Obama's speech was no different.  If he had said the pre-war lines, then yeah, that would have been news.

Originally Posted by tada:

Why does this not surprise me in the least that Obama hates Israel and claims the Palenstinians are occupied. Obama did tell another lie that America believes Israel needs to revert back to pre 1967 borders. I am an American and I say to Obama you and your cronies are the only people who believe that junk. I cannot wait till election time.

 

Brilliant speech. I agreed with every word, and I'm an American too.

 

Its time to make Israel accountable for their land grabs and thuggish behavior. When did Obama say he hates Israel, I mean I hate Israel, but I doubt that he does.

Originally Posted by Ronnie P.:

Getting attacked is thuggish behavior.  What is wrong with you people how many people need to die before you realize these people want to push Israel into the sea.  They don't want peace.  you liberals think squirrels think like Westerners.  Delusional.

And the delusional nonsense continues.

You people need to go back and read your history books. Have the Jews not suffered enough throughout the years dare I say centuries? Persecute the Jews, make them pay!

FOR WHAT!!??

 

Leeching off of the U.S.? I would be glad to give every bit of my tax dollars to Israel than this Communist government we call the good ol USA. Makes me sick.

 

Right wing NONsense??!!
Do you know even what you are saying you incompetent boob!

You people sound like Hitler all over again. Let's go after the Jews!!!

Maybe if we give the palestinians the west bank maybe they will quiet down??
MY BUTT!!!  History teaches us that will not be the case.

Obama is showing what kind of person he really is.


Clinton talked about it? Bush talked about it?

It is unconcievable to even think about punishing the Jews.

Last edited by tada
Originally Posted by hayssco23:

"I believe everything Fox News says"

 

Wouldn't that just be an easier response for some of y'all?

 

 

"I have no facts to argue with on this subject so I am going to use the standard left wing "Fox News Feint" and hope that it distracts from my ignorance and impresses my fellow Lefties"

 

Wouldn't that have better explained YOUR response?

I've already explained why this should be a non-issue because Obama said nothing in his speech that indicates any change in longstanding US policy toward Israel.  I even linked to the response of one of the most pro-Israel groups out there, the Anti-Defamation League, which praised the speech.  By all means let's have a debate over Israel, that's all well and good, but to carry on as if Obama hates Israel and this speech was proof is just a complete denial of reality.

Originally Posted by Opie Cunningham:
Originally Posted by Ronnie P.:

Getting attacked is thuggish behavior.  What is wrong with you people how many people need to die before you realize these people want to push Israel into the sea.  They don't want peace.  you liberals think squirrels think like Westerners.  Delusional.

 

Israel made their bed, now they have to lay in it.



Read your history books first before you make such an asinine statement.
 

 

If I were Israel I would first give Obama the finger, then fortify the Golan Heights and wait for everyone to come. They also need to get the WMDs ready to go because NO COUNTRY in the world is going to support them. It is the beginning of WW2 all over again.
Palestinians occupied.....
Go back to 1967 borders.....

Basically saying...Get the Jews!

Disgusting

Originally Posted by Blind Melon Chit'lin:
Originally Posted by hayssco23:

"I believe everything Fox News says"

 

Wouldn't that just be an easier response for some of y'all?

 

 

"I have no facts to argue with on this subject so I am going to use the standard left wing "Fox News Feint" and hope that it distracts from my ignorance and impresses my fellow Lefties"

 

Wouldn't that have better explained YOUR response?

No, it's just that I read day in and day out on many websites and watch many shows where hypocrisy runs free. It doesn't matter what you actually believe, or what the party you support said, or has said, if Obama says it, you must be against it. I leave you with some facts:

 

"This has been the basic idea for at least 12 years. This is what Bill Clinton, Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat were talking about at Camp David, and later, at Taba. This is what George W. Bush was talking about with Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert. So what's the huge deal here? Is there any non-delusional Israeli who doesn't think that the 1967 border won't serve as the rough outline of the new Palestinian state?"

 

"Any Final Status Agreement Must Be Reached Between The Two Parties, And Changes To The 1949 Armistice Lines Must Be Mutually Agreed To." - George W. Bush ("1949 Armistice Line" Is Another Way Of Referring To Pre-1967 Borders, also referred to at 1967 borders)

 

"“We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.” - Barack Obama 

 

(quotes seem pretty similar to me)

"Any Final Status Agreement Must Be Reached Between The Two Parties, And Changes To The 1949 Armistice Lines Must Be Mutually Agreed To." - George W. Bush ("1949 Armistice Line" Is Another Way Of Referring To Pre-1967 Borders, also referred to at 1967 borders)

 

"“We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.” - Barack Obama 

 

(quotes seem pretty similar to me)

 

 

OK. And just how "secure" was that Israel "border" between 1948 and 1967? The "1967" border will guarantee "security and peace"? The same "peace" they experienced between '48 and '67?

Could I borrow your "rose colored glasses "?

Yeah.

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

I've already explained why this should be a non-issue because Obama said nothing in his speech that indicates any change in longstanding US policy toward Israel.  I even linked to the response of one of the most pro-Israel groups out there, the Anti-Defamation League, which praised the speech.  By all means let's have a debate over Israel, that's all well and good, but to carry on as if Obama hates Israel and this speech was proof is just a complete denial of reality.

 

 

Your reality? Or everyone elses that has common sense and knows about history?

 

So I guess this does not mean anything anymore!!??
Look at all those Dems that voted no or did not vote at all.

 

House, Senate Back Sharon Disengagement Plan

(June 23-24, 2004)


The Senate voted June 24, 2004, to embrace President Bush's support of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip. The Senate's action came a day after the House approved a similar measure by a 407-9 roll call vote.

The concurrent resolution states that Congress: (1) strongly endorses the principles articulated by President Bush in his letter dated April 14, 2004, to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon which will strengthen the security and well-being of the State of Israel; and (2) supports continuing efforts with the international community to build the capacity and will of Palestinian institutions to fight terrorism, dismantle terrorist organizations, and prevent the areas from which Israel has withdrawn from posing a threat to the security of Israel.

By 95-3, Senators approved nonbinding language that also said "it is unrealistic'' for any peace settlement between Israel and Palestinians to require Israel to return to the borders that existed before the 1967 war. In addition, the resolution said a Palestinian state would have to be part of a "just, fair and realistic framework'' for peace with Palestinian refugees settling there, not in Israel. The Senate resolution said Palestinians must stop "armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere.''

Both chambers' resolutions endorsed Bush's April 14 letter to Sharon in which Bush backed Sharon's plan to remove Jewish settlements and some military installations from Gaza, and some military bases and settlements from the West Bank.

 

In the Senate, Robert Byrd, D-WV; James Jeffords, I-VT; and John Sununu, R-NH voted against the resolution, and Senators Richard Lugar, R-IN, and John Kerry, D-MA did not vote. In the House, Representatives John Conyers, D-MI, John Dingell, D-MI, Carolyn Kilpatrick, D-MI, Dennis Kucinich, D-OH, Barbara Lee, D-CA, Ron Paul, R-TX, Fortney Stark, D-CA, Maxine Waters, D-CA, and Lynn Woolsey, D-CA opposed the resolution. Reps. Donald Payne, D-NJ, Diane Watson, D-CA, and Melvin Watt, D-NC voted present, and Doug Bereuter, R-NE, Howard Berman, D-CA, Rick Boucher, D-VA, Julia Carson, D-IN, Jim DeMint, R-SC, Peter Deutsch, D-FL, Richard Gephardt, D-MO, Alcee Hastings, D-FL, Steve Israel, D-NY, Mark Kirk, R-IL, Kendrick Meek, D-FL, Randy Neugebauer, R-TX, W.J. Tauzin, R-LA, and Curt Weldon, R-PA did not vote.

The text of the resolution follows:

Originally Posted by tada:
Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

I've already explained why this should be a non-issue because Obama said nothing in his speech that indicates any change in longstanding US policy toward Israel.  I even linked to the response of one of the most pro-Israel groups out there, the Anti-Defamation League, which praised the speech.  By all means let's have a debate over Israel, that's all well and good, but to carry on as if Obama hates Israel and this speech was proof is just a complete denial of reality.

 

 

Your reality? Or everyone elses that has common sense and knows about history?

 

You're not demonstrating common sense or a knowledge of History.

 

Originally Posted by tada:

Your reality? Or everyone elses that has common sense and knows about history?

This is what I meant by Obama critics' problem with postmodernism.  Let's operate under the assumption that there is such a thing as objective reality and further assume that that's what I'm talking about.  A two-state solution for Israel and Palestine is not some radical new idea for US policy, and neither is the idea that the 1967 armistice line should be the starting point for negotiations.  You may disagree with that policy (there's something to actually debate!), but it exists, and has since before Obama.  To say that it hasn't is to ignore reality and create your own.

 

Also, to bring up this point for a third time, the Anti-Defamation League doesn't typically put out press releases praising speeches that are in any way anti-Israel.  Anyone who's not completely living in their own reality might pause to consider that.

 

As for your second post, Obama didn't say yesterday that Israel had to return to its pre-1967 borders.  Besides the fact--as I've also mentioned above--that "1967 border" is always used to mean the post-war borders because that's been the general border since then, Obama also didn't say anything about Israel having to return to them or anything else that Israel would never agree to (the whole point of negotiating is and always has been that Israel and Palestine have to agree).  Is there any serious figure in Israel or Palestine who doesn't think the 1967 line would be the starting point for negotiations over a Palestinian state?

Originally Posted by Blind Melon Chit'lin:

"Any Final Status Agreement Must Be Reached Between The Two Parties, And Changes To The 1949 Armistice Lines Must Be Mutually Agreed To." - George W. Bush ("1949 Armistice Line" Is Another Way Of Referring To Pre-1967 Borders, also referred to at 1967 borders)

 

"“We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.” - Barack Obama 

 

(quotes seem pretty similar to me)

 

 

OK. And just how "secure" was that Israel "border" between 1948 and 1967? The "1967" border will guarantee "security and peace"? The same "peace" they experienced between '48 and '67?

Could I borrow your "rose colored glasses "?

Yeah.

I wasn't arguing the "security and peace" thing. Just pointing out that the people attacking Obama for what he said, probably supported Bush when he said the same thing, just because they can't side with Obama. Hell, my original one-line post was made for sh**s and giggles and take a dig at people that only believe what they hear and do no research.

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

 

As for your second post, Obama didn't say yesterday that Israel had to return to its pre-1967 borders.  Besides the fact--as I've also mentioned above--that "1967 border" is always used to mean the post-war borders because that's been the general border since then, Obama also didn't say anything about Israel having to return to them or anything else that Israel would never agree to (the whole point of negotiating is and always has been that Israel and Palestine have to agree).  Is there any serious figure in Israel or Palestine who doesn't think the 1967 line would be the starting point for negotiations over a Palestinian state?

It is one thing to say, Hey lets start negotiations at the 1967 border!
It is another to say the U.S. believes that the border should return to the 1967 border.

If Israel gives up the west bank totally, how could Israel defend itself? This fight between Jews and Arabs has been going on for 2000 years and if you believe this move will make everything right, I believe you would be dead wrong. The Jews have been through hell and back a few times in our history because of bigotry and hate. They won the right to that land fairly by being attacked and forced the opposition that was 10 times stronger back to their slimey holes.

 

Leave them alone!

Originally Posted by tada:
It is one thing to say, Hey lets start negotiations at the 1967 border!

It is another to say the U.S. believes that the border should return to the 1967 border.

You're right.  Let's go to the speech:

 

"The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states."

 

"Based on" to me means "that's where negotiations should start."

 

I don't believe for a second that the two-state solution will solve Israel's security problems.  Hamas clearly remains the biggest obstacle to peace and doesn't show any signs of going away any time soon.  Still, I believe that the status quo is unsustainable, and that two states are necessary if Israel is going to remain both a Jewish and democratic state.

Originally Posted by tada:
Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

 

As for your second post, Obama didn't say yesterday that Israel had to return to its pre-1967 borders.  Besides the fact--as I've also mentioned above--that "1967 border" is always used to mean the post-war borders because that's been the general border since then, Obama also didn't say anything about Israel having to return to them or anything else that Israel would never agree to (the whole point of negotiating is and always has been that Israel and Palestine have to agree).  Is there any serious figure in Israel or Palestine who doesn't think the 1967 line would be the starting point for negotiations over a Palestinian state?

It is one thing to say, Hey lets start negotiations at the 1967 border!
It is another to say the U.S. believes that the border should return to the 1967 border.

If Israel gives up the west bank totally, how could Israel defend itself? This fight between Jews and Arabs has been going on for 2000 years and if you believe this move will make everything right, I believe you would be dead wrong. The Jews have been through hell and back a few times in our history because of bigotry and hate. They won the right to that land fairly by being attacked and forced the opposition that was 10 times stronger back to their slimey holes.

 

Leave them alone!

Excellent Post Tada

Skippy

Originally Posted by skippy delepepper:
Originally Posted by tada:
Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam:

 

As for your second post, Obama didn't say yesterday that Israel had to return to its pre-1967 borders.  Besides the fact--as I've also mentioned above--that "1967 border" is always used to mean the post-war borders because that's been the general border since then, Obama also didn't say anything about Israel having to return to them or anything else that Israel would never agree to (the whole point of negotiating is and always has been that Israel and Palestine have to agree).  Is there any serious figure in Israel or Palestine who doesn't think the 1967 line would be the starting point for negotiations over a Palestinian state?

It is one thing to say, Hey lets start negotiations at the 1967 border!
It is another to say the U.S. believes that the border should return to the 1967 border.

If Israel gives up the west bank totally, how could Israel defend itself? This fight between Jews and Arabs has been going on for 2000 years and if you believe this move will make everything right, I believe you would be dead wrong. The Jews have been through hell and back a few times in our history because of bigotry and hate. They won the right to that land fairly by being attacked and forced the opposition that was 10 times stronger back to their slimey holes.

 

Leave them alone!

Excellent Post Tada

Skippy

 

Crap post, based on what people believe to be truth, you know that goofy Bible scam. Israel represents a thuggish, self absorbed society, and deserves to be slapped around a little bit.

I really liked Netanyahu's reply to Obama "It ain't going to happen."  why does it matter where the Boundry is? there is so much hate in that region they are going to fight, have been for 2000 years and will as long as the Earth stands.

 

none of the Palestenians have a Job so the Arab Countries give them money to fight, so it don't really matter, if Israel gave the Land back to the 1967 Boundry then they could reach the Airport and some more Cities to Bomb with their Rockets and that wouldn't satisfy them, they hate Israel.

 

and Oh yes, everything Fox News says is true, and I like them. and that Goofy Bible you talk about ooopie cunningham is what you will be Judged by after awhile.  People from Pennsylvania are lacking.

Last edited by prince albert
Originally Posted by prince albert:

I really liked Netanyahu's reply to Obama "It ain't going to happen."  why does it matter where the Boundry is? there is so much hate in that region they are going to fight, have been for 2000 years and will as long as the Earth stands.

 

none of the Palestenians have a Job so the Arab Countries give them money to fight, so it don't really matter, if Israel gave the Land back to the 1967 Boundry then they could reach the Airport and some more Cities to Bomb with their Rockets and that wouldn't satisfy them, they hate Israel.

 

and Oh yes, everything Fox News says is true, and I like them. and that Goofy Bible you talk about ooopie cunningham is what you will be Judged by after awhile.  People from Pennsylvania are lacking.

 

 

 

The Bible is Bunk. Anyone who buys in to a single word of it is brain damaged.

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