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Obama, Pelosi and Reid Were Right!

Renegade NationRenegade NationHall of Famer
WERE right...Here's what then Senator Obama said about the Patriot Act in '07:

"“This is legislation that puts our own Justice Department above the law. When National Security Letters are issued, they allow federal agents to conduct any search on any American, no matter how extensive or wide-ranging, without ever going before a judge to prove that the search is necessary.”

Speaker Pelosi, 2005:
“This is a massive invasion of the privacy of the American people, not just some idle threat. The Washington Post reported last month that the FBI hands out more than 30,000 national security letters per year, a reported hundred-fold increase over historic norms. How did this happen?”

Leader Reid, 2005:
“Now, what happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas, but not in this instance. It’s in some federal data bank. That’s what the Patriot Act is doing to the American people. And we have to make sure that big brother doesn’t take over this country.”

Change you can believe in, on Saturday President Obama signed legislation to renew the Patriot Act.

He signed this after it passed a Democrat controlled House and Senate. Based on what they said just a couple of years ago, did you expect them to renew it? Washington...either party....will not check itself. If you were fed up with the previous administration...well too bad because the new one is not going to roll back any government power.

And if you think playing the same game and electing "change" 2012 will do any good...you haven't been paying attention the last 70 years.

And I'm not saying it's just the democrats that flip/flop. Last month congress voted to increase the federal debt limit. All 39 republican senators voted against this claiming...(cough/choke)...fiscal responsibility. Yet 4 years ago 51 republican senators voted in favor of raising the debt ceiling while forty four democrat senators voted against it. A complete reversal in just four years.

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The Constitution. Every Issue, Every time. No Exceptions, No Excuses.

 

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."---Thomas Jefferson

 

"That's what governments are for... get in a man's way."---Mal Reynolds Capt. of Serenity, "Firefly-Class" spaceship

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P Pogo142Post Master
The PACTRIOT ACT and the MILITARY COMMISSION ACT are to spy on and crush dissent to US policies. Leaders will be jailed if they begin to lead huge protests agaisnt US wars for Profits and Power and Corporate Globalization and object to their coming serfdom status.

I lived through the 1960's rebellion. When government is unresponsive the people take to the streets.
ferrelljferrelljOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The PACTRIOT ACT and the MILITARY COMMISSION ACT are to spy on and crush dissent to US policies. Leaders will be jailed if they begin to lead huge protests agaisnt US wars for Profits and Power and Corporate Globalization and object to their coming serfdom status.

I lived through the 1960's rebellion. When government is unresponsive the people take to the streets.


Then that means I better get things in order before I attend the upcoming tea party. It's off to FEMA encampment for me.
J JOY4567Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The PACTRIOT ACT and the MILITARY COMMISSION ACT are to spy on and crush dissent to US policies. Leaders will be jailed if they begin to lead huge protests agaisnt US wars for Profits and Power and Corporate Globalization and object to their coming serfdom status.

The more you write, the more amazed I am...
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The PACTRIOT ACT and the MILITARY COMMISSION ACT are to spy on and crush dissent to US policies. Leaders will be jailed if they begin to lead huge protests agaisnt US wars for Profits and Power and Corporate Globalization and object to their coming serfdom status.

I lived through the 1960's rebellion. When government is unresponsive the people take to the streets.


Please spell out these mysterious powers granted for such crushing. Especially, since US citizens are immune to the present military commission rules.
P Pogo142Post Master
Only thing "mysterious" about it is I have heard it said lawyers can't even read the whole thing, it's so long and enhances governments rights over peoples.

They are doing it in front of our own eyes.......for our own good.

As you know interventor. I can expect you to try to gum things up being as you make a living off of Wars.


Also, the president can classify an American citizen an "Enemy Combatant". As anger grows leaders will be arressted for marches, maybe even labor leaders who call strikes as the Taliban and al Qaeda, who we have helped stay together, begin to get some of these attacks through.
P Pogo142Post Master
To begin with as I stated in my previous post the PATRIOTIC ACT enhance govenrment surveilance and curtails rights.

One right is the FBI alloweded to investigate what your reading without telling the suspect.

Another is the right to search your house without a warrent and not inform you until months later.

The post is not about the details of the acts but rather as part of a over view of what is to come.
P Pogo142Post Master
Progressives were not that surprised by a Hawkish Obama. He is doing what he said he will do.

Progressives had read about how he sold out the people in the past and knew he would do it again. He has too, he couldn't stand up to the Military, Industrial Corporate Complex by himself. Even if he wanted too.

Still he is a brillant man who is well qaulified to be President and I would chose him again.
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
Only thing "mysterious" about it is I have heard it said lawyers can't even read the whole thing, it's so long and enhances governments rights over peoples.

They are doing it in front of our own eyes.......for our own good.

As you know interventor. I can expect you to try to gum things up being as you make a living off of Wars.


Also, the president can classify an American citizen an "Enemy Combatant". As anger grows leaders will be arressted for marches, maybe even labor leaders who call strikes as the Taliban and al Qaeda, who we have helped stay together, begin to get some of these attacks through.


So, you admit, as far as the Patriot Act is concerned, you have no idea of what you were talking about. FINALLY! As to enemy combatants, only if apprehended on the battlefield, under arms, may anyone be designated as a enemy combatant. That's in the Geneva conventions. During WWII, a Wehrmacht soldier with dual German-American citizenship was captured and treated as such.
P Pogo142Post Master
Padilla was labled an "enemy combatant" until the case was on it's way to the supreme court and the US had no evidence.

I have listed two items from the PATRIOT ACT and I have more in my old computer and without double checking do not want to misstate anything.

As I say, the PATRIOT ACT is for the future when public unrest occurs at US actions.
ferrelljferrelljOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
Progressives were not that surprised by a Hawkish Obama. He is doing what he said he will do.

Progressives had read about how he sold out the people in the past and knew he would do it again. He has too, he couldn't stand up to the Military, Industrial Corporate Complex by himself. Even if he wanted too.

Still he is a brillant man who is well qaulified to be President and I would chose him again.


I'm not surprised you would vote for him again. I don't understand it, but I'm not surprised.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
I'm confident that the American people have enough common sense not to vote for a crack pot like Bernie Sanders. I'm still amazed that Vermont elected him at all. To say that guy is nuts is putting it mildly. He doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of even attempting a run at the presidency.

Obama has let down a lot of his supporters and has not won over critics. He'll seek re-election and will lose in a landslide only if his opponent is fiscally conservative. The American public has made it very clear that we're tired of big government spending wildly.
ferrelljferrelljOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
I think Obama is too conservative but unless he gets a serious challenge from the left in the primaries, which I doubt, I will probabaly vote for him again, depends on who is also running of course but if it's another Righyt Wing Lying Dumb Hack the choice is simple.

Should Bernie Sanders run I would vote for him.


Sounds like yout stuck with your left wing lying dumb hack Obama. Good luck.
P Pogo142Post Master
I'm confident that if the American people get to hear Sanders speak
they will vote for him, that's why he got elected in Vermont. He started as a mayot, then to congress and now the Senate.

He is a smart man who speaks for the people and not the corporations.

Obama will probably win the nominations unchallenged and defeat any Republican as they have nothing to offer but spineless crackpots.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
Sander's is a socialist. With the Tea Party movement, the American people have made it clear they don't want to be subjected to a big government through socialism. Vermont has always followed a different drummer than the rest of the country. Vermont is not a very good example of the heart of the country.

I don't plan on voting Democrat or Republican in the next presidential election. However, the 2012 presidential election is the Republicans' to lose. If they nominate another McCain, we'll see 4 more years under Obama. If they get their crap together and nominate someone who will reign in the big government and cut spending, Obama doesn't stand a chance.
P Pogo142Post Master
The tea parties are small and make more noise and threats then anything else. They can effect local elections but National ones they will not be significant. The Corproate Media has the American people so lost and confused they don't even know what they want except they are angry at the decline of their standard of living.

Anyone who has ever spent time in Vermont knows it's ridiculous to say they are not like the average Americans. They are not Socialists at all.

Sanders ascended to the Senate and to the National scene because of what he says and promotes, a voice of sanity. He does not promote Socialism, with the exception of Health Care, but common sense and sticks up for the average Amercian, one of the few left in government not owned by Corporate Interests and fights their influence and domination of our lives.

We jsut saw the mess an ineffective govenrment that believed in small government left us.

The Republican have nothing but Crackpots to run.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
I looked at Sander's views. I agree with a few of his economic ideas, I disagree with others. The fact that he passed global warming legislation is extremely worrisome since global warming clearly does not exist. He's not as crazy as assumed since you support him, but there is no way he'll every be president.

To lump all Republicans together and say they're all crackpots is a very close minded approach. There are some crackpots in the party and some who have some great ideas. The same can be said for the Democrats. To simply label all Republicans as crackpots is pretty narrow minded and not very rational.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The tea parties are small and make more noise and threats then anything else. They can effect local elections but National ones they will not be significant. The Corproate Media has the American people so lost and confused they don't even know what they want except they are angry at the decline of their standard of living.

Anyone who has ever spent time in Vermont knows it's ridiculous to say they are not like the average Americans. They are not Socialists at all.

Sanders ascended to the Senate and to the National scene because of what he says and promotes, a voice of sanity. He does not promote Socialism, with the exception of Health Care, but common sense and sticks up for the average Amercian, one of the few left in government not owned by Corporate Interests and fights their influence and domination of our lives.

We jsut saw the mess an ineffective govenrment that believed in small government left us.

The Republican have nothing but Crackpots to run.


I've never been to Vermont, but you've never been to Alabama either.

The Tea Party protests are anything but small. Last April 15th, millions of people protested across the country. This number has already been proven to you with extensive evidence.
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
To begin with as I stated in my previous post the PATRIOTIC ACT enhance govenrment surveilance and curtails rights.

One right is the FBI alloweded to investigate what your reading without telling the suspect.

Another is the right to search your house without a warrent and not inform you until months later.

The post is not about the details of the acts but rather as part of a over view of what is to come.


The review of your checking out books from the library is not a protected right.

The unwarranted searches were found to be illegal in 2007. That portion was not included in the act Obama signed. Next, erroneous statement, please.
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
Padilla was labled an "enemy combatant" until the case was on it's way to the supreme court and the US had no evidence.

I have listed two items from the PATRIOT ACT and I have more in my old computer and without double checking do not want to misstate anything.

As I say, the PATRIOT ACT is for the future when public unrest occurs at US actions.


Padilla was labeled an illegal combatant. He wasn't wearing a uniform when he committed his acts. On another post, I showed where you were wrong on both the items you posted in the Patriot Act.

That old computer of yours must have a lot of information. Ever tried file sharing?
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The tea parties are small and make more noise and threats then anything else. They can effect local elections but National ones they will not be significant. The Corproate Media has the American people so lost and confused they don't even know what they want except they are angry at the decline of their standard of living.

Anyone who has ever spent time in Vermont knows it's ridiculous to say they are not like the average Americans. They are not Socialists at all.

Sanders ascended to the Senate and to the National scene because of what he says and promotes, a voice of sanity. He does not promote Socialism, with the exception of Health Care, but common sense and sticks up for the average Amercian, one of the few left in government not owned by Corporate Interests and fights their influence and domination of our lives.

We jsut saw the mess an ineffective govenrment that believed in small government left us.

The Republican have nothing but Crackpots to run.


The 1.2 million tea partiers that demonstrated in DC was one of the largest ever.

Keep telling yourself they are a very small group, while sticking your fingers in your ears and humming. Reality bites!
ferrelljferrelljOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The tea parties are small and make more noise and threats then anything else. They can effect local elections but National ones they will not be significant. The Corproate Media has the American people so lost and confused they don't even know what they want except they are angry at the decline of their standard of living.

Anyone who has ever spent time in Vermont knows it's ridiculous to say they are not like the average Americans. They are not Socialists at all.

Sanders ascended to the Senate and to the National scene because of what he says and promotes, a voice of sanity. He does not promote Socialism, with the exception of Health Care, but common sense and sticks up for the average Amercian, one of the few left in government not owned by Corporate Interests and fights their influence and domination of our lives.

We jsut saw the mess an ineffective govenrment that believed in small government left us.

The Republican have nothing but Crackpots to run.


I hope the career politicians make the same mistake as you do by thinking the trea parties are insignificant. "We just saw the mess an ineffective government that believed in small government left us". Who the heck are you talking about? Bush didn't believe in small government.

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