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It's back! I thought the NY Times loved Obama.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12...ml?pagewanted=1&_r=1



Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir
By ROBERT PEAR
Published: December 25, 2010


WASHINGTON — When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

........................................................

After learning of the administration’s decision, Mr. Blumenauer’s office celebrated “a quiet victory,” but urged supporters not to crow about it.

“While we are very happy with the result, we won’t be shouting it from the rooftops because we aren’t out of the woods yet,” Mr. Blumenauer’s office said in an e-mail in early November to people working with him on the issue. “This regulation could be modified or reversed, especially if Republican leaders try to use this small provision to perpetuate the ‘death panel’ myth.”

Moreover, the e-mail said: “We would ask that you not broadcast this accomplishment out to any of your lists, even if they are ‘supporters’ — e-mails can too easily be forwarded.”

The e-mail continued: “Thus far, it seems that no press or blogs have discovered it, but we will be keeping a close watch and may be calling on you if we need a rapid, targeted response. The longer this goes unnoticed, the better our chances of keeping it.”
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quote:
Originally posted by electraglide:
how come you mdidn't put the whole article in their? i feel i have a right to choose if i want life support or not. it's no ones business. also this is all voluntarly.

Because it is a tactic to stir up fear as often used by those who don't even wish to understand. Several hospitals in Alabama, including UAB, already offer help or counseling on directives if you wish. It gives the doctors a better understanding of how you wish to receive treatment if you cannot speak for yourself. It is best to let them have their folly. Who knows? Read The Handmaid's Tale. It will help you better understand what I see happening if the right wing extremists were to have their way without check. Luckily they are actually a minority and it won't happen just like so-called death panels will never happen. For now let them have their little fright fest. They will scare themselves the most.
quote:
Originally posted by AlabamaSon:
quote:
Originally posted by electraglide:
how come you mdidn't put the whole article in their? i feel i have a right to choose if i want life support or not. it's no ones business. also this is all voluntarly.

Because it is a tactic to stir up fear as often used by those who don't even wish to understand. Several hospitals in Alabama, including UAB, already offer help or counseling on directives if you wish. It gives the doctors a better understanding of how you wish to receive treatment if you cannot speak for yourself. It is best to let them have their folly. Who knows? Read The Handmaid's Tale. It will help you better understand what I see happening if the right wing extremists were to have their way without check. Luckily they are actually a minority and it won't happen just like so-called death panels will never happen. For now let them have their little fright fest. They will scare themselves the most.
Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.

-------------------------------------------
Encouraging people to forego life-saving treatment IS NOT trying to determine the best line of treatment.
quote:
Originally posted by electraglide:
how come you mdidn't put the whole article in their? i feel i have a right to choose if i want life support or not. it's no ones business. also this is all voluntarly.

Agreed, but if you live in Alabama , it is best for you to go on and have a living will, and express your desire. Otherwise, the STATE will decide for you and they will keep you on life support , I guess, as long as possible and I guess your family will have to pay. They passed that law right after the Terri Schievo fiasco where congress convened and Bush flew in early from one of his many vacations to sign a bill trying to get the Supreme Court involved . Ultimatly, to their credit, they would have none of it, but Alabama passed a law just the same.
Therefore,If someone needs counceling on that matter, I think it is good for insurance to pay for it.
A "death panel" is a lie , made up by that liar and quitter who claims she is such a high Christian.
quote:
Originally posted by electraglide:
i read the link. he left the biggest part out.
What sense does it make to copy and paste the entire article when the link is there, and the part I wanted to highlight I posted, and gave my opinion on it. Kinda stupid to copy and paste all of it when all you have to do is click the link. Roll Eyes
It is simply laughable that fear mongers would take something as simple as advanced directive planning and morph it into death panels. The last two paragraphs sum the whole thing up rather well.

quote:
In a recent study of 3,700 people near the end of life, Dr. Maria J. Silveira of the University of Michigan found that many had “treatable, life-threatening conditions” but lacked decision-making capacity in their final days. With the new Medicare coverage, doctors can learn a patient’s wishes before a crisis occurs.

For example, Dr. Silveira said, she might ask a person with heart disease, “If you have another heart attack and your heart stops beating, would you want us to try to restart it?” A patient dying of emphysema might be asked, “Do you want to go on a breathing machine for the rest of your life?” And, she said, a patient with incurable cancer might be asked, “When the time comes, do you want us to use technology to try and delay your death?”


Delaying your death? Oh my. Palin and the Palionites didn't count on that idea being there.
quote:
For example, Dr. Silveira said, she might ask a person with heart disease, “If you have another heart attack and your heart stops beating, would you want us to try to restart it?” A patient dying of emphysema might be asked, “Do you want to go on a breathing machine for the rest of your life?” And, she said, a patient with incurable cancer might be asked, “When the time comes, do you want us to use technology to try and delay your death?”

That's called the DNR and is not what they're proposing here.
quote:
Originally posted by JuanHunt:
They are death panels. They have existed for a long time. ObamaCare just puts emphasis on killing Repubs. Nothing to see here.


...then they came for the Libertarians...

quote:
Originally posted by JuanHunt: Intelligence is vastly overrated too


Indeed... it seems you have taken that to heart...
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
It would all be well and good IF the doctor did NOT get COMPENSATED for doing his little talk.

That changes the purpose.


When was the last time you heard of a doctor giving any kind of advice for free ?
Last time I remember it was when my old doc told me to start lifting weights to overcome the effects on my immune system from rheumatic fever. I happened to see him in the drugstore.
Long time ago in a universe far away.
quote:
Originally posted by JuanHunt:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
It would all be well and good IF the doctor did NOT get COMPENSATED for doing his little talk.

That changes the purpose.


Bull. What sevices should a doc do for free? When I was in the hospital, my GP got $145/day to walk by and make sure I was alive.


He could have skipped that little visit. You forget he also talked to the nurses, looked at your chart, read any new blood work and or x-rays and then decided if he needed to add or change anything.

If you are in the office for a visit, and you are already paying him for that visit, then he gets a bonus for telling you about plugging the plug so your wife doesn't have to watch you slowly linger, that is not the same as saying, 'You might want to to talk to YOUR family about how things need to be handled'.

You can bet that that little bonus will work it's way into more and more detailed questions until we reach soylent green stage.

But then, I'm a pessimist.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by JuanHunt:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
It would all be well and good IF the doctor did NOT get COMPENSATED for doing his little talk.

That changes the purpose.


Bull. What sevices should a doc do for free? When I was in the hospital, my GP got $145/day to walk by and make sure I was alive.


He could have skipped that little visit. You forget he also talked to the nurses, looked at your chart, read any new blood work and or x-rays and then decided if he needed to add or change anything.



My GP had no part of my hospitalization. He did not participate in any manner. I should say he billed for $145, I have no idea how much he was actually paid except I did not have to pay any part of it, insurance covered the entire amount.
I'll repeat from above,
quote:
If you are in the office for a visit, and you are already paying him for that visit, then he gets a bonus for telling you about plugging the plug so your wife doesn't have to watch you slowly linger, that is not the same as saying, 'You might want to to talk to YOUR family about how things need to be handled'.
The entire Palinesque "death panel" myth is a boatload of the well-known barnyard commodity.
End-of-life planning is a prudent course of action for anyone facing the prospect of death from incurable disease. To deny that is the epitome of silliness and irresponsibility. The wingers who followed Palin's absurd leadership on this topic are just the kind of ninnies who need to be kept out of high political office or any other station in life where responsible decisions are made that affect others.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
My GP had no part of my hospitalization. He did not participate in any manner. I should say he billed for $145, I have no idea how much he was actually paid except I did not have to pay any part of it, insurance covered the entire amount.

What kind of insurance do you have?


Government ran.
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
My GP had no part of my hospitalization. He did not participate in any manner. I should say he billed for $145, I have no idea how much he was actually paid except I did not have to pay any part of it, insurance covered the entire amount.

What kind of insurance do you have?


Government ran.


I wish. My company dropped health care in 2009. I have an individual BCBS plan, cost about $6000/year.
Anyone with a potentially deadly disease that does not have an Advanced Directive for End of Life Care is just being selfish. Dont make your loved ones make those decisions for you!!! or you "will lose the ability to control treatments at the end of (your) life.”


quote:

SHELLBACH: Alright, you can eat. But machines do everything else.

KRAMER: (hesitant) Uhm...

(Kramer looks to Elaine, who nods.)

ELAINE: I'd stick.

KRAMER: Yeah, yeah. Stick. (to Elaine) 'Cos I could still go to the coffee shop.

ELAINE: (points to Kramer and smiles in agreement) That's right.
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Won’t be long before death panels become a reality although they will be called by another name.

Democrats will never, ever admit the most thoroughly proven facts.


Wingers never will admit that many of their fantasies--such as "Obama death panels" are inane falsifications by moronic types like Sarah Palin, the Wingnut of Wasilla and the Darling of Dumb and Dumber!

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