Officer at Florida School Waited Outside Instead of Confronting Shooter

Trained officer, trained to deal with these situations, still froze. Republicans answer, more guns.

__________________________________________

Officer at Florida School Waited Outside Instead of Confronting Shooter, Sheriff Says

The sheriff’s deputy who was assigned to the Florida school where a gunman killed 17 people last week has left the force after evidence showed he stood outside the building where the shooting occurred rather than going in, Sheriff Scott Israel said Thursday.

“He never went in,” Sheriff Israel said, describing video footage of the scene he had watched.

Asked what school resource officer Scot Peterson, who was the only armed security guard at the school, should have done, the sheriff said he should have gone into the building, “addressed the killer, killed the killer.”

 

This is the latest in a series of lost opportunities to stop Nikolas Cruz, the accused gunman at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., either before or during the attack. The Federal Bureau of Investigation last week said a specific tip identifying Mr. Cruz’s threat in January fell through the cracks.

Two unnamed Broward County deputies also have been placed on restricted duty while the department explores what could have, or should have, been done when police responded to calls regarding Mr. Cruz before the shooting, Sheriff Israel said.

The sheriff said Mr. Peterson arrived about a minute and a half into the six-minute shooting and stood outside for “upwards of four minutes.”

“What matters is that when we in law enforcement arrive at an active shooter, we go in and address the target. And that’s what should have been done,” the sheriff said. The video hasn’t been released publicly.

When asked about how he felt about the issue, “devastated, sick to my stomach,” Sheriff Israel said. “There are no words.”

Mr. Peterson resigned after Sheriff Israel suspended him without pay pending an internal investigation, the sheriff said, speaking at a news conference.

Mr. Peterson couldn’t be reached for comment Thursday.

Jeff Bell, president of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association, said Mr. Peterson is a veteran. He said deputies are trained “to go in and neutralize the threat” when dealing with active shooters.

“That apparently did not happen,” said Mr. Bell, who said he spoke with Mr. Peterson Thursday morning.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/o...riff-says-1519341298

People aren't racist, pills are.

Original Post

It's not surprising, government agencies from local government to the federal goobermint failed the victims and the only response that I hear from everyone from President Trump on down to the town dog catcher is to create new laws that civil servants will choose to ignore. How about passing laws to fire incompetent goobermint employees and enforce those first.

no matter how much training, no one really knows what they will do when the time comes.  

However a teacher that stood in front of students and was killed, had a concealed and carry license. Had he been carrying there might have been a different outcome.  

Naio posted:

Our government is supposed to be of the people, by the people and for the people.  If we can't trust the government (fed, state, and local), then something is wrong with us....

Yes, there is something wrong with us; we didn't take de Tocqueville's warnings to heart. We keep electing people to office who offer simple but incorrect solutions to the problems created by the societal rot of a "progressive society" and those politicians hire do-nothing employees to oversee us.

Stanky posted:
Naio posted:

Our government is supposed to be of the people, by the people and for the people.  If we can't trust the government (fed, state, and local), then something is wrong with us....

Yes, there is something wrong with us; we didn't take de Tocqueville's warnings to heart. We keep electing people to office who offer simple but incorrect solutions to the problems created by the societal rot of a "progressive society" and those politicians hire do-nothing employees to oversee us.

👏

If a gunman can walk into a military base like Fort Hood with 100% of the populace 'highly trained" in firearms use, and still murder 13 people with a pistol, do you honestly think that 20% of teachers having a gun is going to stop the next killer who may have an AR-15?

Br’er Rabbit posted:

If a gunman can walk into a military base like Fort Hood with 100% of the populace 'highly trained" in firearms use, and still murder 13 people with a pistol, do you honestly think that 20% of teachers having a gun is going to stop the next killer who may have an AR-15?

Yes, those probably "highly trained" soldiers were slaughtered by Jihadi Freud; the problem was that the "highly trained" victim's weapons were stored in the armory. As far as that "highly trained" police officer who used the frog's battlefield discretion, I've seen more than a few "highly trained" LEOs who scared the hell out of me at the range. Just because someone has the official goobermint okie-dokie to carry a weapon doesn't make that person "highly trained" and I would rather have some former soldier who has "seen the elephant" and used his or her GI Bill education to become a teacher to have the option of protecting him or herself and her/his students.

And just because someone is trained to handle a situation, doesn't mean they won't freeze with the next situation. So, basically, Republicans have agreed to train teachers to be SWAT? or maybe Green Berets? or Navy Seals? I'm sure that's gonna work.

I'm sure we'll give them 'combat pay' if they have to use the weapon, as well. But, we can't find any extra money for paper for the copier.

Br’er Rabbit posted:

And just because someone is trained to handle a situation, doesn't mean they won't freeze with the next situation. So, basically, Republicans have agreed to train teachers to be SWAT? or maybe Green Berets? or Navy Seals? I'm sure that's gonna work.

I'm sure we'll give them 'combat pay' if they have to use the weapon, as well. But, we can't find any extra money for paper for the copier.

And I'm sure using collective punishment on honest people instead of government agencies doing their jobs and placing people with obvious mental problems into proper care is going to work out well. Let's assume you get your heaven on Earth and all AR-15's are confiscated, what about the rest of the 250-300 million of firearms out there in the hands of all of us non-believers in the great collective that someone with mental problems can use? For that matter, what about all the fuels and oxidizers that can be combined to make explosives? Someone who is certifiably crazy is not necessarily stupid. Or US wackos can do as the Chinese ones and use edged weapons:

http://archive.boston.com/news...ng_9_boys_in_school/

Br’er Rabbit posted:

Collective punishment? Because you can't own a civilian version of a military weapon? Great choice of wording.

While you whine about not owning an assault rifle, I'll be glad to offer my thoughts and prayers.

Great statist wording there. Mussolini and Marx would be proud.

Naio posted:

I don't want to see all guns banned.  I just think my chances of surviving a knife attack are better than surviving a lunatic with an AR-15....

Pardon me, but the AR-15 is chambered in a groundhog caliber and most hunters around here use calibers that would make you deader faster, barring head shots. My father worked for Fairchild Aircraft Corporation and transferred into their Armalite division during the development of the weapon that became the M-16. I believe it was the people who bought the patent (Colt) from Fairchild  who created the civilian AR-15. It has been said that Gene Stoner wouldn't have wanted civilians to buy AR-15s and that would probably be true, but only because he didn't get any royalties. He would have preferred that they would buy the Armalite AR-180 which he did willingly peddle to the masses.

Image result for AR-180

 

I also I might note that the company hunting trips were almost legendary according to dad. 

Stanky posted:
Naio posted:

I don't want to see all guns banned.  I just think my chances of surviving a knife attack are better than surviving a lunatic with an AR-15....

Pardon me, but the AR-15 is chambered in a groundhog caliber and most hunters around here use calibers that would make you deader faster, barring head shots. My father worked for Fairchild Aircraft Corporation and transferred into their Armalite division during the development of the weapon that became the M-16. I believe it was the people who bought the patent (Colt) from Fairchild  who created the civilian AR-15. It has been said that Gene Stoner wouldn't have wanted civilians to buy AR-15s and that would probably be true, but only because he didn't get any royalties. He would have preferred that they would buy the Armalite AR-180 which he did willingly peddle to the masses.

Image result for AR-180

 

I also I might note that the company hunting trips were almost legendary according to dad. 

Your mind goes to dark places... Don't think that's a convincing argument

Naio posted:
Stanky posted:
Naio posted:

I don't want to see all guns banned.  I just think my chances of surviving a knife attack are better than surviving a lunatic with an AR-15....

Pardon me, but the AR-15 is chambered in a groundhog caliber and most hunters around here use calibers that would make you deader faster, barring head shots. My father worked for Fairchild Aircraft Corporation and transferred into their Armalite division during the development of the weapon that became the M-16. I believe it was the people who bought the patent (Colt) from Fairchild  who created the civilian AR-15. It has been said that Gene Stoner wouldn't have wanted civilians to buy AR-15s and that would probably be true, but only because he didn't get any royalties. He would have preferred that they would buy the Armalite AR-180 which he did willingly peddle to the masses.

Image result for AR-180

 

I also I might note that the company hunting trips were almost legendary according to dad. 

Your mind goes to dark places... Don't think that's a convincing argument

Here's another dark place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Dornier

Christian Dornier (born July 15, 1958) is a French mass murderer, who shot to death his sister and mother and wounded his father with a 12-gauge double-barrelled shotgun at their farm on July 12, 1989. He then drove through the village of Luxiol and the adjacent area, shooting people at random. A total of 15 people were killed and seven others injured in his half-hour rampage, before police managed to subdue him.

It's a case of someone with known issues in France who used a hunting arm to cause mass carnage. I might note that a mortician might make a corpse look pretty with a full metal jacket 5.56 Nato round, but lots of luck with a 12 gauge at point blank range.

Here's another.....

http://www.al.com/news/index.s...eath_rate_jumps.html

The number of people killed by gunfire in Alabama increased by 22 percent in a seven-year period, according to a report released today by the Violence Policy Center.

In 2016, Alabama's gunfire death rate was the second-highest in the United States, with 21.51 fatalities per 100,000 people, according to the Center. That rate was up 22 percent from 2009 when there were 17.63 gunfire deaths per 100,000 people.

Gun deaths in Alabama increased more during the seven-year period than in the U.S. overall. The number of people killed by gunfire in the U.S. increased by 17 percent, according to the report.

The report is an analysis of data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Injury Prevention. The gunfire deaths included in the statistics are homicides, suicides and accidental shootings.

The only state with a higher rate of gunfire deaths than Alabama is Alaska, where there were 23.86 fatalities per 100,00 people, according to the report. Massachusetts had the lowest rate of gunfire deaths, with 3.55 per 100,000 people, the report shows.

The report links an increase in gunfire deaths to a 2008 Supreme Court case, District of Columbia v. Heller, in which the justices affirmed the rights of people to have pistols in their homes for self-defense.

However, the report shows that not all states saw an increase in gun deaths. In Rhode Island, gunfire deaths decreased by nearly 13 percent during that time period. The study links states with fewer gunfire deaths to lower rates of firearm ownership and stricter legislation. In Rhode Island, for example, there are guns in about 16 percent of households, the study shows. While, in states like Alabama and Alaska, about half or more of households have guns.

The Violence Policy Center, of Washington D.C., researches and advocates for stricter gun legislation. It was founded in 1988 by Executive Director Josh Sugarmann, a native of Newtown, Connecticut.

Stanky posted:
Naio posted:
Stanky posted:
Naio posted:

I don't want to see all guns banned.  I just think my chances of surviving a knife attack are better than surviving a lunatic with an AR-15....

Pardon me, but the AR-15 is chambered in a groundhog caliber and most hunters around here use calibers that would make you deader faster, barring head shots. My father worked for Fairchild Aircraft Corporation and transferred into their Armalite division during the development of the weapon that became the M-16. I believe it was the people who bought the patent (Colt) from Fairchild  who created the civilian AR-15. It has been said that Gene Stoner wouldn't have wanted civilians to buy AR-15s and that would probably be true, but only because he didn't get any royalties. He would have preferred that they would buy the Armalite AR-180 which he did willingly peddle to the masses.

Image result for AR-180

 

I also I might note that the company hunting trips were almost legendary according to dad. 

Your mind goes to dark places... Don't think that's a convincing argument

Here's another dark place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Dornier

Christian Dornier (born July 15, 1958) is a French mass murderer, who shot to death his sister and mother and wounded his father with a 12-gauge double-barrelled shotgun at their farm on July 12, 1989. He then drove through the village of Luxiol and the adjacent area, shooting people at random. A total of 15 people were killed and seven others injured in his half-hour rampage, before police managed to subdue him.

It's a case of someone with known issues in France who used a hunting arm to cause mass carnage. I might note that a mortician might make a corpse look pretty with a full metal jacket 5.56 Nato round, but lots of luck with a 12 gauge at point blank range.

Wow. What a better way to prove the argument. A guy killed 15 with only 5 rounds, 7 tops, in the gun before reloading. Now, just imagine how many would have died if he'd had 100 round magazines and a civilian version of a military weapon invented for killing humans efficiently.

Br’er Rabbit posted:
Stanky posted:
Naio posted:
Stanky posted:
Naio posted:

I don't want to see all guns banned.  I just think my chances of surviving a knife attack are better than surviving a lunatic with an AR-15....

Pardon me, but the AR-15 is chambered in a groundhog caliber and most hunters around here use calibers that would make you deader faster, barring head shots. My father worked for Fairchild Aircraft Corporation and transferred into their Armalite division during the development of the weapon that became the M-16. I believe it was the people who bought the patent (Colt) from Fairchild  who created the civilian AR-15. It has been said that Gene Stoner wouldn't have wanted civilians to buy AR-15s and that would probably be true, but only because he didn't get any royalties. He would have preferred that they would buy the Armalite AR-180 which he did willingly peddle to the masses.

Image result for AR-180

 

I also I might note that the company hunting trips were almost legendary according to dad. 

Your mind goes to dark places... Don't think that's a convincing argument

Here's another dark place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Dornier

Christian Dornier (born July 15, 1958) is a French mass murderer, who shot to death his sister and mother and wounded his father with a 12-gauge double-barrelled shotgun at their farm on July 12, 1989. He then drove through the village of Luxiol and the adjacent area, shooting people at random. A total of 15 people were killed and seven others injured in his half-hour rampage, before police managed to subdue him.

It's a case of someone with known issues in France who used a hunting arm to cause mass carnage. I might note that a mortician might make a corpse look pretty with a full metal jacket 5.56 Nato round, but lots of luck with a 12 gauge at point blank range.

Wow. What a better way to prove the argument. A guy killed 15 with only 5 rounds, 7 tops, in the gun before reloading. Now, just imagine how many would have died if he'd had 100 round magazines and a civilian version of a military weapon invented for killing humans efficiently.

A seven shot break open double barreled shotgun? I wants one of dem!

Stanky posted:
Br’er Rabbit posted:

Wow. What a better way to prove the argument. A guy killed 15 with only 5 rounds, 7 tops, in the gun before reloading. Now, just imagine how many would have died if he'd had 100 round magazines and a civilian version of a military weapon invented for killing humans efficiently.

A seven shot break open double barreled shotgun? I wants one of dem!

I only skimmed the article and saw 'shotgun'... even better.

And nice job of deflecting the real question.

Naio posted:

I know right.  Not sure what he's advocating for right now.

I'm not advocating for anything more than rational thought. I've proven that it's easy to cause mass carnage without an AR, hell I've proven that one really doesn't need a firearm to inflict mass casualties on the public; just ask the survivors of the Nice truck attack. If you can't get too far from your "safe places" to understand that there is no such thing as a safe place from someone who is intent on causing mass murder, then so much for trying to get a reasonable response from you two. The only real cure from this modern scourge of mass killings is from public vigilance, reporting to authorities that something is amiss, and having competent authorities who do their jobs. But if the only that matters to small minds is that one doesn't die from those demonic black rifles and other weapons and means of death are perfectly acceptable; well then children, carry on.

How is public vigilance going to stop a truck attack?  I'm adult enough to know that life is a crap shoot.  Like I said before, I don't want to see all guns banned, but you went to darker places.  So lets ban all guns.  I like my chances against trucks, knives, and machetes...

Naio posted:

How is public vigilance going to stop a truck attack?  I'm adult enough to know that life is a crap shoot.  Like I said before, I don't want to see all guns banned, but you went to darker places.  So lets ban all guns.  I like my chances against trucks, knives, and machetes...

Odds are much better against a truck, knife or machete verses a Civilian model of a Military weapon invented for killing humans very efficiently.

Br’er Rabbit posted:
Naio posted:

How is public vigilance going to stop a truck attack?  I'm adult enough to know that life is a crap shoot.  Like I said before, I don't want to see all guns banned, but you went to darker places.  So lets ban all guns.  I like my chances against trucks, knives, and machetes...

Odds are much better against a truck, knife or machete verses a Civilian model of a Military weapon invented for killing humans very efficiently.

Casualties for Nice truck attack: 86 dead and 434 nonfatal injuries.

Casualties for Parkland evil killing machine attack: 17 deaths and 14 nonfatal injuries.

I guess that death by crushing is less dead.

And Truck attack rate vs Gun attack rate??

And cars/trucks are more heavily regulated than guns. IF gun attacks are 20 times more common, a very low estimate, comparing apples to apples...


Truck attack 86 dead, 434 injured

Gun attack 340 dead, 8680 injured.

Statistics are hard to argue with... .facts don't change.

 

 

Br’er Rabbit posted:

And Truck attack rate vs Gun attack rate??

And cars/trucks are more heavily regulated than guns. IF gun attacks are 20 times more common, a very low estimate, comparing apples to apples...


Truck attack 86 dead, 434 injured

Gun attack 340 dead, 8680 injured.

Statistics are hard to argue with... .facts don't change.

 

 

And let's assume you can rub your plastic Obama idol and make all those sentient evil black rifles disappear; can't those who listen to the evil spirits of machinery go to a car lot with EZ terms and no FBI background checks and get a mass murder device? While not as presently trendy as an AR-15 among those who respond to the voices in their heads, they can easily fill the void. Also those folks might find that trunks and truck beds are great places to place oxidizer-fuel mixtures as they do in the supposed gun-free parts of the world or just crushing people is enough. I guess smoldering holes where classrooms used to be and flattened children in parking lots and school sidewalks are still better than AR-15 body piercings.

Personally, shouldn't we be addressing the causes of our problems and not the tools mentally ill people and the truly evil use. If all we do is single out a single weapon type and actually ban it, we are going to find out that there are a lot of other ways to die. I suspect that the best thing for the country is that progessives regressives get to keep their talking points for the next few elections and that crazies and jihadies don't learn from the Oklahoma bombing incident.

Stanky posted:
Br’er Rabbit posted:

And Truck attack rate vs Gun attack rate??

And cars/trucks are more heavily regulated than guns. IF gun attacks are 20 times more common, a very low estimate, comparing apples to apples...


Truck attack 86 dead, 434 injured

Gun attack 340 dead, 8680 injured.

Statistics are hard to argue with... .facts don't change.

 

 

And let's assume you can rub your plastic Obama idol and make all those sentient evil black rifles disappear; can't those who listen to the evil spirits of machinery go to a car lot with EZ terms and no FBI background checks and get a mass murder device? While not as presently trendy as an AR-15 among those who respond to the voices in their heads, they can easily fill the void. Also those folks might find that trunks and truck beds are great places to place oxidizer-fuel mixtures as they do in the supposed gun-free parts of the world or just crushing people is enough. I guess smoldering holes where classrooms used to be and flattened children in parking lots and school sidewalks are still better than AR-15 body piercings.

Personally, shouldn't we be addressing the causes of our problems and not the tools mentally ill people and the truly evil use. If all we do is single out a single weapon type and actually ban it, we are going to find out that there are a lot of other ways to die. I suspect that the best thing for the country is that progessives regressives get to keep their talking points for the next few elections and that crazies and jihadies don't learn from the Oklahoma bombing incident.

Are you in favor of universal health care?

Br’er Rabbit posted:

Since the bombing using Fertilizer, the stuff is HEAVILY regulated. As are cars/trucks. Guns aren't, though. Can you see a correlation?

Vehicles are hard to get? Oh really!

2017 NYC Truck Attack Home Depot Truck.jpg

I might note that there are many more explosive mixtures than ANFO:

 

Afghan bomb makers shifting to new explosives for IEDs

https://www.usatoday.com/story...afghanistan/2442191/

I also bet that even with all those regulations, someone who is patient can accumulate the necessary oxidizer for ANFO just as sure as the Broward County Sheriffs Dept. didn't keep a known problem child from getting a weapon. But then again, what else can one expect from a liberal politician.

  Image result for Scott Israel hillary clinton

Naio posted:
Stanky posted:
Br’er Rabbit posted:

And Truck attack rate vs Gun attack rate??

And cars/trucks are more heavily regulated than guns. IF gun attacks are 20 times more common, a very low estimate, comparing apples to apples...


Truck attack 86 dead, 434 injured

Gun attack 340 dead, 8680 injured.

Statistics are hard to argue with... .facts don't change.

 

 

And let's assume you can rub your plastic Obama idol and make all those sentient evil black rifles disappear; can't those who listen to the evil spirits of machinery go to a car lot with EZ terms and no FBI background checks and get a mass murder device? While not as presently trendy as an AR-15 among those who respond to the voices in their heads, they can easily fill the void. Also those folks might find that trunks and truck beds are great places to place oxidizer-fuel mixtures as they do in the supposed gun-free parts of the world or just crushing people is enough. I guess smoldering holes where classrooms used to be and flattened children in parking lots and school sidewalks are still better than AR-15 body piercings.

Personally, shouldn't we be addressing the causes of our problems and not the tools mentally ill people and the truly evil use. If all we do is single out a single weapon type and actually ban it, we are going to find out that there are a lot of other ways to die. I suspect that the best thing for the country is that progessives regressives get to keep their talking points for the next few elections and that crazies and jihadies don't learn from the Oklahoma bombing incident.

Are you in favor of universal health care?

I'm over the age that the state would consider worth having around; so count me as a hell no!

http://www.independent.co.uk/l...report-a6721401.html

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