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Olbermann Calls Hannity's Bluff: $1000 For Every Second Of Waterboarding (VIDEO)

meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
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Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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Give me some statistics on the number of individuals that have died from any of these interrogation methods.


This, along with the presence of medical experts, by itself, is not proof that something isn't torture. I'm not saying what is or isn't, but a doctor could easily supervise torture - torture even by your definition - and make sure no one died.


Did you get the part about, "First do NO HARM..."???? I think it is part of the Oath of Hypocrites and Doctors just swear by it... Wink

Snake, you keep resorting to the word torture and that is all that it is, A WORD! You've got your foot on the gas so hard that you miss the significance of significant words. I realize that you have been so saturated with the liberal mssage for so long, convincing you of anything is like baptising your cat...


If it is "torture" I want to know. If its not, I still want to know. What is the problem? If its all just "enhanced interrogation", I want to know. A great deal hinges on words. If no crimes have been committed do we not have the right to know? What is the problem?

You and your little band of wingnut extremist brothers will most likely NOT convince me of much. Sorry, I have no cat.

P.S. Dr. Mengele was a physician.
Last edited by meanasasnake
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Lets see,between the choice of some savage getting his head dunked or my children getting their heads cut off because they will not face Mecca and pray 5 times a day?Hmmmmmmm I think I`ll choose the dunking.Call me kooky but that`s what I think.


Pure hyperbolic, hysterical, over-reaching,reactionary, conjecture based on no reality. Where are these elusive Islamic terrorists holding children hostage with the threat of beheading? Has this happened in the U.S.? No. It is pure unrealistic fear mongering from the mind of an extremist. Pure babble.

You are kooky.



I'm usually against anything happening to Americans but when I see such unadulterated stupid statements like that, it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are. I don't consider that a mean statement based on the fact that people like you think muslim terrorists are no more of a threat than athlete's foot.


This is what we have come to expect from the extremist right in this nation. You hope fellow Americans are killed (or injured) in terrorist attacks because we disagree with you - what a guy. Of course you don't consider it "mean" - why would you? Why don't you and some of your crazy cohorts get together and stage some terrorist event - would that not be better than waiting around for some Islamic terrorists to do it for you?

The fact is, my delusional, angry, violent friend, that I share the majority of Americans view of terrorism. We want to protect this nation, but not at the cost of breaking our own treaties, the rule of law and what we know to be moral and just. There is more than one way to achieve a safe and secure homeland. Simply because I don't think torture is moral, or effective, does not mean that I have no regard for the safety of my country. I can tell you this - I would never wish a fellow American citizen to be killed to prove my philosophical point. That would make me no different than a terrorist. Sort of like you. A lousy American.



If you libs would learn to read you would see that I said nothing about hoping anyone would get killed. In your twisted way of thinking, there IS NO CHANCE of being killed by terrorists since they aren't really a threat. Since anyone with common sense knows this to be stupid, it seems the only way for people like you to see the light is to have some personal contact with these "non-threats." If they aren't a threat, why are you thinking you may be hurt? Your logic is quite illogical, snakester.


Ha! This from one who finds the idea of his fellow Americans being killed in a terrorist act as a potential "learning experience". You are an extremist - end of story. I am finished with you. Please continue - you do the Republican Party real proud.

"it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are."

There is no mistaking the intent of this remark.



If that's the extent of your education then maybe you shouldn't respond to me anymore. You do nothing but embarrASS yourself when you try to read things into my posts that aren't there. One moment you say we have nothing to fear from terrorism and then you think they may kill you. Well which one is it?
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Lets see,between the choice of some savage getting his head dunked or my children getting their heads cut off because they will not face Mecca and pray 5 times a day?Hmmmmmmm I think I`ll choose the dunking.Call me kooky but that`s what I think.


Pure hyperbolic, hysterical, over-reaching,reactionary, conjecture based on no reality. Where are these elusive Islamic terrorists holding children hostage with the threat of beheading? Has this happened in the U.S.? No. It is pure unrealistic fear mongering from the mind of an extremist. Pure babble.

You are kooky.



I'm usually against anything happening to Americans but when I see such unadulterated stupid statements like that, it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are. I don't consider that a mean statement based on the fact that people like you think muslim terrorists are no more of a threat than athlete's foot.


This is what we have come to expect from the extremist right in this nation. You hope fellow Americans are killed (or injured) in terrorist attacks because we disagree with you - what a guy. Of course you don't consider it "mean" - why would you? Why don't you and some of your crazy cohorts get together and stage some terrorist event - would that not be better than waiting around for some Islamic terrorists to do it for you?

The fact is, my delusional, angry, violent friend, that I share the majority of Americans view of terrorism. We want to protect this nation, but not at the cost of breaking our own treaties, the rule of law and what we know to be moral and just. There is more than one way to achieve a safe and secure homeland. Simply because I don't think torture is moral, or effective, does not mean that I have no regard for the safety of my country. I can tell you this - I would never wish a fellow American citizen to be killed to prove my philosophical point. That would make me no different than a terrorist. Sort of like you. A lousy American.



If you libs would learn to read you would see that I said nothing about hoping anyone would get killed. In your twisted way of thinking, there IS NO CHANCE of being killed by terrorists since they aren't really a threat. Since anyone with common sense knows this to be stupid, it seems the only way for people like you to see the light is to have some personal contact with these "non-threats." If they aren't a threat, why are you thinking you may be hurt? Your logic is quite illogical, snakester.


Ha! This from one who finds the idea of his fellow Americans being killed in a terrorist act as a potential "learning experience". You are an extremist - end of story. I am finished with you. Please continue - you do the Republican Party real proud.

"it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are."

There is no mistaking the intent of this remark.



If that's the extent of your education then maybe you shouldn't respond to me anymore. You do nothing but embarrASS yourself when you try to read things into my posts that aren't there. One moment you say we have nothing to fear from terrorism and then you think they may kill you. Well which one is it?


You are a deranged liar. I never said "we have nothing to fear from terrorism", you crazy, extremist loon. Never said it. What I rejected was your weird suggestion that our children were in imminent danger of being forced into Alla worship or suffer beheading (hysterical,nonsensical prattle). You did, however, say:"it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are."
Last edited by meanasasnake
D dolemitejbHall of Famer
This:

"That ANYONE could compare our methods to the true forms of torture practiced around the world is incomprehensible. I'm not going to go back and state all the methods used by the islamic terrorists and their cohorts. It's getting so redundant. If you want to go far enough off the deep end, you could consider asking questions loudly to be torture."

Does not answer this:

"Please explain how my statement, quoted above, is incorrect or unintelligent."

That statement again:

"This, along with the presence of medical experts, by itself, is not proof that something isn't torture. I'm not saying what is or isn't, but a doctor could easily supervise torture - torture even by your definition - and make sure no one died."
gbrkgbrkOld Faithful
It continues to amaze me the lengths and efforts that our own people (Americans?) go to attempt to punish our own people trying to protect us and condemning our own people than they go to condemn and punish the terrorist that openly want to destroy our way of life, decapitate others.

I can only hope these people that do this will feel remorse for the relatives of people that will be killed by these people in the next attack that is certainly being prepared now. I know better though for these people only have hatred for their own fellow countrymen who happen to hold political views that are different than theirs. As for our enemies they care to ignore them or worse equate them as people to be pitied and consider them as abused.
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Lets see,between the choice of some savage getting his head dunked or my children getting their heads cut off because they will not face Mecca and pray 5 times a day?Hmmmmmmm I think I`ll choose the dunking.Call me kooky but that`s what I think.


Pure hyperbolic, hysterical, over-reaching,reactionary, conjecture based on no reality. Where are these elusive Islamic terrorists holding children hostage with the threat of beheading? Has this happened in the U.S.? No. It is pure unrealistic fear mongering from the mind of an extremist. Pure babble.

You are kooky.



I'm usually against anything happening to Americans but when I see such unadulterated stupid statements like that, it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are. I don't consider that a mean statement based on the fact that people like you think muslim terrorists are no more of a threat than athlete's foot.


This is what we have come to expect from the extremist right in this nation. You hope fellow Americans are killed (or injured) in terrorist attacks because we disagree with you - what a guy. Of course you don't consider it "mean" - why would you? Why don't you and some of your crazy cohorts get together and stage some terrorist event - would that not be better than waiting around for some Islamic terrorists to do it for you?

The fact is, my delusional, angry, violent friend, that I share the majority of Americans view of terrorism. We want to protect this nation, but not at the cost of breaking our own treaties, the rule of law and what we know to be moral and just. There is more than one way to achieve a safe and secure homeland. Simply because I don't think torture is moral, or effective, does not mean that I have no regard for the safety of my country. I can tell you this - I would never wish a fellow American citizen to be killed to prove my philosophical point. That would make me no different than a terrorist. Sort of like you. A lousy American.



If you libs would learn to read you would see that I said nothing about hoping anyone would get killed. In your twisted way of thinking, there IS NO CHANCE of being killed by terrorists since they aren't really a threat. Since anyone with common sense knows this to be stupid, it seems the only way for people like you to see the light is to have some personal contact with these "non-threats." If they aren't a threat, why are you thinking you may be hurt? Your logic is quite illogical, snakester.


Ha! This from one who finds the idea of his fellow Americans being killed in a terrorist act as a potential "learning experience". You are an extremist - end of story. I am finished with you. Please continue - you do the Republican Party real proud.

"it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are."

There is no mistaking the intent of this remark.



If that's the extent of your education then maybe you shouldn't respond to me anymore. You do nothing but embarrASS yourself when you try to read things into my posts that aren't there. One moment you say we have nothing to fear from terrorism and then you think they may kill you. Well which one is it?


You are a deranged liar. I never said "we have nothing to fear from terrorism", you crazy, extremist loon. Never said it. You did, however, say:"it would be my wish that people like you all over this county, come face to face with a terrorist someday and if you manage to live through it, you can THEN tell us how "kooky" we are."


Hey baby, coming face to face with people you don't have to fear doesn't mean they are going to kill you, does it?
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by gbrk:
It continues to amaze me the lengths and efforts that our own people (Americans?) go to attempt to punish our own people trying to protect us and condemning our own people than they go to condemn and punish the terrorist that openly want to destroy our way of life, decapitate others.

I can only hope these people that do this will feel remorse for the relatives of people that will be killed by these people in the next attack that is certainly being prepared now. I know better though for these people only have hatred for their own fellow countrymen who happen to hold political views that are different than theirs. As for our enemies they care to ignore them or worse equate them as people to be pitied and consider them as abused.


So we are never to question anything? Really? Why not? If you are incapable of understanding the concept of "democracy" then there is nothing to explain.

P.S. It would also help if you understood a bit about laws, treaties, and what it means to be "civilized".

This from John McCain:

This morning on Fox News, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) responded to the startling information -- first noted by blogger Marcy Wheeler -- that detainee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times. "It's unacceptable," McCain said, adding:

One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us.

I suppose Sen. McCain is un-American because he disagrees with you?
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
"Hey baby, coming face to face with people you don't have to fear doesn't mean they are going to kill you, does it?"

Little fella, who is going to kill me? What are you talking about? Be specific. All this speculating on a wild variety of scenarios and trying to justify your hate is tiresome. You are not the best spokesperson for your cause, and certainly not the sharpest knife in the box. Give it up, calm down and get some help for the ODS.
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
"Hey baby, coming face to face with people you don't have to fear doesn't mean they are going to kill you, does it?"

Little fella, who is going to kill me? What are you talking about? Be specific. All this speculating on a wild variety of scenarios and trying to justify your hate is tiresome. You are not the best spokesperson for your cause, and certainly not the sharpest knife in the box. Give it up, calm down and get some help for the ODS.


Oh come on suga, I'm sure those friendly terrorists wouldn't mind your age. Wink
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by gbrk:
It continues to amaze me the lengths and efforts that our own people (Americans?) go to attempt to punish our own people trying to protect us and condemning our own people than they go to condemn and punish the terrorist that openly want to destroy our way of life, decapitate others.

I can only hope these people that do this will feel remorse for the relatives of people that will be killed by these people in the next attack that is certainly being prepared now. I know better though for these people only have hatred for their own fellow countrymen who happen to hold political views that are different than theirs. As for our enemies they care to ignore them or worse equate them as people to be pitied and consider them as abused.


So we are never to question anything? Really? Why not? If you are incapable of understanding the concept of "democracy" then there is nothing to explain.

P.S. It would also help if you understood a bit about laws, treaties, and what it means to be "civilized".

This from John McCain:

This morning on Fox News, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) responded to the startling information -- first noted by blogger Marcy Wheeler -- that detainee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times. "It's unacceptable," McCain said, adding:

One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us.

I suppose Sen. McCain is un-American because he disagrees with you?


That liberal? That's why he lost the election. You defacrats wouldn't vote for him and a lot of his views were closer to yours so a lot of Conservatives didn't vote for him either. As far as a recruiting tool, do you really think they would love us (I know that would really turn you on) if we didn't pressure them? I think you're forgetting how many Americans they killed before we took ANY action. Maybe you are the "tool."
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by kperk:
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
"Hey baby, coming face to face with people you don't have to fear doesn't mean they are going to kill you, does it?"

Little fella, who is going to kill me? What are you talking about? Be specific. All this speculating on a wild variety of scenarios and trying to justify your hate is tiresome. You are not the best spokesperson for your cause, and certainly not the sharpest knife in the box. Give it up, calm down and get some help for the ODS.


Oh come on suga, I'm sure those friendly terrorists wouldn't mind your age. Wink


Ah, yes. The end of a weak argument. Sort of just ran out of what little intellectual steam you had on that one.
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
So, kperk, are you saying that because McCain is too "liberal" that he (a 20+ year veteran - highyl decorated Navy captain - who spent over 5 years as a POW in Vietnam) is unqualified to have input worth considering on the subject of torture?


Input...yes.

Final word...no.


Actually, he may be the swing vote needed - thus giving him the "final word".
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
It is indeed interesting how John McCain, with his stellar military career, is so easily thrown under the bus when he dares to disagree with the extremist wingnuts in his own party. It is one more example of how respect for military service, according to the right, is contingent upon political philosophy. Fortunately his credibility on the issue far outweighs that of any of his detractors.
Sassy KimsSassy KimsOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
So, kperk, are you saying that because McCain is too "liberal" that he (a 20+ year veteran - highyl decorated Navy captain - who spent over 5 years as a POW in Vietnam) is unqualified to have input worth considering on the subject of torture?


Input...yes.

Final word...no.


Actually, he may be the swing vote needed - thus giving him the "final word".


McCain commented over the weekend...he said that it's time to move on.

I doubt he'll be your swing vote.

Time to move on...
K KissedGritsHall of Famer
quote:
Journalist Christopher Hitchens (a conservative) volunteered himself to be water-boarded and declared it to be torture.


Someone who makes an ignorant statement like this loses all credibility.

Hitchens is a self-proclaimed Marxist, genius. He writes for Salon, New Republic, Slate, Vanity Fair, etc. Not exactly conservative publications. Not that you would know, of course.
G geddon97Old Faithful
Okay let me submit a hypothetical situation here.We capture Sheik Muhammad in May of 2001(Now mind you he is the mastermind of 9/11).You question him and question him and the only response you get is "You`ll see soon enough".Now you know this guy has connections to OBL and Al Qeuda.Would you risk the lives of Americans because of some nutty idea that in order to deal with him you have to be more moral?Or would you do everything in your power to get the information? This is the question the CIA and NSA had to ask themselves. Do we take the high road and let Americans die so that our "conscience"can be clear or do we get the info and save American lives.Now Mean you say you would not waterboard.I`m glad you can armchair quarterback like that.But I wouldn`t take the chance of Americans dieing. Because believe it or not this is an evil world with evil people in it.And sometimes you have to get just as vicious and evil as them to protect Americans.
K KissedGritsHall of Famer
quote:
Christopher Hitchens is a strange bird. He's an antheist, who writes mainly conservative for left wing publications. He hates the radical islamists.

Knowing him, if gin were suibstituted for water; he'd still be stapped down yelling, "bring it on!"


Hitchens was interviewed last night on C-Span, and believe me, he is no conservative and he made that plain. Yes, he is virulently anti-extremist Islam, but so are many SENSIBLE liberals (a very rare, select breed).

He himself said he was a liberal, even a revolutionary. In contrast, his brother, Peter Hitchens, is a rock solid conservative. One of the best debates I ever witnessed was between the two Hitchens brothers. If you ever get the chance to watch it, do. You will see Chris Hitchens is no conservative.

That said, he has held positions that many conservatives can embrace: he was all for Clinton's impeachment, he is pro-Iraq war, etc., but even a blind squirrel will find a nut every once in a while. Plus, he does love a good Jack and coke.
B beternUOld Faithful
Somehow gone astray in all this is the principle that EVEN IF waterboarding or other forms of "enhanced interrogation" (i.e. TORTURE) did produce correct and useful information, it is still not moral or legal for this nation to use torture. Moreover, the choice is not between "enhanced interrogation" or no interrogation at all. Plenty of experienced interrogators have insisted that information obtained by torture is not reliable and that the most effective mode of interrogation does NOT include torture. These are the experts who should be listened to. Those to be ignored are those who construct extreme hypothetical scenarios that are advanced as mandating torture as the ONLY means of getting information!
teyatesteyatesOld Faithful
Somehow in all this conversation you have failed to realize that the people we are dealing with do NOT FOLLOW THE GENEVA CONVENTION nor are they bound by any rules of common decency. Despite what the Koran may say about peaceful coexistence, in other areas it tells them to kill the infidel.
I have seen the videos of them basically sawing a man's head off with a big knife (machete) as he screams and gurgles, and his held down by his captors. I have seen videos of people being doused with gasoline and set afire in a pit, writhing and screaming, for nothing more than not condoning the actions of their captors.
You, and people like you, fail to realize that there is some justifcation for what is being done here. Whether or not you may like it, it may be for your own good. If being strapped to the board and smothered with water is the most terrible thing we do to these fanatics it will never compare to the atrocities they have placed upon others.
These people are not your friends Beternu, they will not spare you because you are sympathetic. In their eyes you are weak and foolish for even having pity upon them.
I am not an extremist, but at the same time I am not gullible enough to believe that people in the CIA and FBI who are tasked with protecting me, can do so effectively when their hands are tied.
I interventor1Post Master
I see that a UN envoy, Manfred Nowak, is calling for trial of Bush's lawyers. Nowak attempted to persuade EU nations to take in Gitmo refugees, without success.

Nowak is from Austria. If trials are in order, the entire government and most of the industrial leaders of Austria should be in the dock. They ship everything from rifles to nuclear technology to Iran, despite a number of UN resolutions to the contrary.

UN resolutions are worth less than the TP they're written on!
I interventor1Post Master
Two good examples of torture: standing on the 98th floor of a burining building and deciding shall I stay and be burned alive or shall I jump and hope to pass out of the way down. Truth be told, you won't pass out but be conscious evey second of your plunge earthward. The second example: watching that burning building and knowing the person you love most in the world will die!
G geddon97Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Somehow gone astray in all this is the principle that EVEN IF waterboarding or other forms of "enhanced interrogation" (i.e. TORTURE) did produce correct and useful information, it is still not moral or legal for this nation to use torture. Moreover, the choice is not between "enhanced interrogation" or no interrogation at all. Plenty of experienced interrogators have insisted that information obtained by torture is not reliable and that the most effective mode of interrogation does NOT include torture. These are the experts who should be listened to. Those to be ignored are those who construct extreme hypothetical scenarios that are advanced as mandating torture as the ONLY means of getting information!

My question still remains.Can your conscience handle the fact that you let Americans die because you chose to take the "high"road? There is fantasy and then there`s reality and reality tells me that there are people on this planet who want us dead. And that I would do anything in my power top prevent them from doing that.Take it or leave it that`s reality.
S skymasterHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
quote:
Originally posted by gbrk:
It continues to amaze me the lengths and efforts that our own people (Americans?) go to attempt to punish our own people trying to protect us and condemning our own people than they go to condemn and punish the terrorist that openly want to destroy our way of life, decapitate others.

I can only hope these people that do this will feel remorse for the relatives of people that will be killed by these people in the next attack that is certainly being prepared now. I know better though for these people only have hatred for their own fellow countrymen who happen to hold political views that are different than theirs. As for our enemies they care to ignore them or worse equate them as people to be pitied and consider them as abused.


So we are never to question anything? Really? Why not? If you are incapable of understanding the concept of "democracy" then there is nothing to explain.

P.S. It would also help if you understood a bit about laws, treaties, and what it means to be "civilized".

This from John McCain:

This morning on Fox News, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) responded to the startling information -- first noted by blogger Marcy Wheeler -- that detainee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times. "It's unacceptable," McCain said, adding:

One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us.

I suppose Sen. McCain is un-American because he disagrees with you?


You didn’t say anything positive about John McCain prior to the election. Sounds like you’re beginning to listen to him and probably realize the country would be better off if he had won the election.
luvurnaborluvurnaborEverybody Knows My Name
According to a recent article in the L.A. Times online, the Bush secret memo just released required that since waterboarding involved taking a suspect to the point of drowning, it could be done no more than 4 times per hour and a physician had to be standing by to perform a tracheotomy if the suspect failed to revive.
As a Christian, I do not want my name or my country associated with that. If the bad people torture people, why does that make it OK for us? Are we trying to prove we can be as bad as they are? If so, why would the world care if we win? I know you who want to torture don't care about the rest of the world, but then the majority threw that bunch out in the last election.
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
Somehow in all this conversation you have failed to realize that the people we are dealing with do NOT FOLLOW THE GENEVA CONVENTION nor are they bound by any rules of common decency. Despite what the Koran may say about peaceful coexistence, in other areas it tells them to kill the infidel.
I have seen the videos of them basically sawing a man's head off with a big knife (machete) as he screams and gurgles, and his held down by his captors. I have seen videos of people being doused with gasoline and set afire in a pit, writhing and screaming, for nothing more than not condoning the actions of their captors.
You, and people like you, fail to realize that there is some justifcation for what is being done here. Whether or not you may like it, it may be for your own good. If being strapped to the board and smothered with water is the most terrible thing we do to these fanatics it will never compare to the atrocities they have placed upon others.
These people are not your friends Beternu, they will not spare you because you are sympathetic. In their eyes you are weak and foolish for even having pity upon them.
I am not an extremist, but at the same time I am not gullible enough to believe that people in the CIA and FBI who are tasked with protecting me, can do so effectively when their hands are tied.



These commie libs could care less. They probably realize we are right about tough interrogation being effective but they will never admit it because they hate Bush. They will be living on pins and needles for the next 4 years, praying that nothing bad happens JUST so they can say, "See I told you Bush was wrong." Conservatives will be on pins and needles praying that nothing bad happens because we don't want innocent Americans to die because of stupid liberal policies.
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by luvurnabor:
According to a recent article in the L.A. Times online, the Bush secret memo just released required that since waterboarding involved taking a suspect to the point of drowning, it could be done no more than 4 times per hour and a physician had to be standing by to perform a tracheotomy if the suspect failed to revive.
As a Christian, I do not want my name or my country associated with that. If the bad people torture people, why does that make it OK for us? Are we trying to prove we can be as bad as they are? If so, why would the world care if we win? I know you who want to torture don't care about the rest of the world, but then the majority threw that bunch out in the last election.


I can only see where that would be good if YOU are the one who dies at the hands of terrorists. I hope you feel rotten if another attack happens and thousands of innocent men, women, and children die because your Christian heart is so full of hate for George Bush. IF we are alive after something like that happens, I will be here everyday reminding foolish people like you of your culpability.
Sassy KimsSassy KimsOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by luvurnabor:
According to a recent article in the L.A. Times online, the Bush secret memo just released required that since waterboarding involved taking a suspect to the point of drowning, it could be done no more than 4 times per hour and a physician had to be standing by to perform a tracheotomy if the suspect failed to revive.
As a Christian, I do not want my name or my country associated with that. If the bad people torture people, why does that make it OK for us? Are we trying to prove we can be as bad as they are? If so, why would the world care if we win? I know you who want to torture don't care about the rest of the world, but then the majority threw that bunch out in the last election.


So you are a conscientious objector. There have been many. However, the dirty work of protecting a country must still be done.

BTW, who said anyone that participated would "want to torture". You have no evidence of that. Able to if necessary is quite different than wanting to. I never want to take a human life, but am quite capable, and willing if necessary.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
Theoretically only:

Assume we're in a war, and we need a critical piece of information to thwart a potentially devastating attack. We have in our custody a person we know has the necessary information to stop it. He refuses to divulge. What action do we take?

Do we stand by our moral principles, and lose; or do we do what we need to do to ensure victory and possibly survival?

Don't read in any of the previous posts; just judge on the basis of what is here.
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