Once Saved, Always ?

I think it depends on how you look at it. My OPINION only:

If you believe that once you accept Jesus as your savior and have been baptized, you are free to go out and commit a robbery, then no.

If you believe that those saved are predetermined by God and no matter how good you are if you are not 'chosen' you go to Hell, then no.

If you feel that you are saved and you try everyday to do your best and you say prayers for strength and guidance, then OK.

If you feel saying prayers for strength and guidance everyday is a reaffirmation of BEING saved, then that's OK too.

As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do.

Gifted, you just opened yourself up for a BG sermon.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
I think it depends on how you look at it. My OPINION only:

If you believe that once you accept Jesus as your savior and have been baptized, you are free to go out and commit a robbery, then no.

If you believe that those saved are predetermined by God and no matter how good you are if you are not 'chosen' you go to Hell, then no.

If you feel that you are saved and you try everyday to do your best and you say prayers for strength and guidance, then OK.

If you feel saying prayers for strength and guidance everyday is a reaffirmation of BEING saved, then that's OK too.

As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do.

b50,

Thats the the way I see it. I think Jesus would agree with all uour points.

quote:

Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Gifted, you just opened yourself up for a BG sermon.

Semi,
BG is void of logic, you might be right.

Hi B50,

When Gifted Child told us, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

You tell her:

1. If you believe that once you accept Jesus as your savior and have been baptized, you are free to go out and commit a robbery, then no.

2. If you believe that those saved are predetermined by God and no matter how good you are if you are not 'chosen' you go to Hell, then no.

3. If you feel that you are saved and you try everyday to do your best and you say prayers for strength and guidance, then OK.

4. If you feel saying prayers for strength and guidance everyday is a reaffirmation of BEING saved, then that's OK too.

5. As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do.

B50, with your Items 1 and 2, I agree with you. A person may profess Jesus Christ and do these things -- for just declaring one's self a Christian believer doesn't make one a believer. One must confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10), invite Him to come in and be your Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20); and, one must believe and receive Him (John 1:12).

Many folks will stand up and profess Jesus Christ. I declared myself a Christian for most of my life; but, I wasn't a Christian. I had not really opened the door of my heart for Him to come in and be my Lord and Savior. He will not open that door and force His way in; we must choose to open the door of our hearts and invite Him to come in. If we do, He will not refuse us.

When a person has truly confessed Jesus Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior -- changes take place.

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." This is called "regeneration" -- we die to the old person, and are regenerated into the new person, the Christ Follower.

At the same time, the new believer is indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).

Ephesians 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

When one has the Holy Spirit within, He will teach us (John 14:26), empower us (Acts 1:8), guide us (John 16:13), and He will convict us (John 16:7-8). The unsaved man who only professed Jesus Christ, but is not indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit, will not be convicted of his sins. He may feel a twinge of guilt for hurting someone or for doing something against the will of God; but, he will quickly recover and forget it -- for he does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to convict him.

A believer will feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit; a non-believer will not -- and that is why a true believer cannot live as he once did before becoming a Christ Follower.

In your Item 2 you say, "those saved are predetermined by God." This is Calvinist predestination and is not Biblical. We read in Romans 8:29, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren."

In His omniscience, i.e., knowing all things from eternity past to eternity future, He knows who will receive Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. Those whom He foreknew to be believers -- He also predestined to become the image of His Son, i.e., to have immortal bodies like Christ and to spend eternity with Him. So, I agree with you on Item 2 -- no, that is not true.

On Item 3, for us, to each day, do one's best to be Christlike, in actions, in prayer, in obedience to the will of God -- that is a good sign this person is saved and is a child of God. For, being a child of God, we will want to emulate His Son.

On Item 4, I agree, but I would call it a reaffirmation of your decision to follow Jesus Christ. We are indwelled once, forever, by the Holy Spirit -- the moment we receive Jesus Christ. Once He has taken up residence, He cannot be evicted. So, once indwelled, always indwelled.

However, for daily strength to continue our daily walk with the Lord -- we do need daily filling of the Holy Spirit, i.e., we need a daily reaffirmation of our need for His strength, guidance, teaching, and conviction. We gain this through daily prayer and Bible study -- and by being a part of a local Christian fellowship, i.e., church, and being involved in its teachings, Bible studies, Sunday Schools, weekly worship services, and Christian fellowship.

Where we will differ is your Item 5, where you say, "As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do."

If your salvation, if your being a Christian is based upon you being baptized -- that would be salvation by works. Salvation is based completely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross -- and not upon ANY works we can do.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

In Isaiah 64:6 we find God's view of any and all works we might do, "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."

And, in Titus 3:5 we are told, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit."

We receive salvation by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ. The only thing we can do and must do to receive eternal life in Christ -- is to believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation.

Once we do this -- then our works begin to have meaning. For we are told in James 2:17 that, "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." What does this mean? It means that if we are truly regenerated, truly a child of God, truly have the Holy Spirit resident within us -- we WILL want to do things, works, to glorify God. Some will do many; others will do few -- but, the works we do in the name of the Lord AFTER our salvation is the "fruit" of our salvation. And, what value is a tree with no fruit?

Yet, we are told 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 that our works, those things we do for the glory of God, will be tested by the fire of judgment at the Bema Seat Judgment. This is a judgment of rewards in heaven. Those who have done little to glorify God, will receive few rewards. Those who have done much to glorify God, will receive great rewards.

However, we are told in verse 15 that, "If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss (of rewards); but he himself SHALL be saved, yet as through fire." Because this person is a Christian believer, he/she will be in heaven, in the eternal presence of God. That, in itself, is a great reward.

But, with this person, because he/she has produced few, if any, "fruit" which glorifies God -- his/her robe may have the smell of fire upon it. Yet, and this is important -- that person is saved (1 Corinthians 3:15), that person will spend eternity in the presence of God and not in the Lake of Fire with Satan. And that is our greatest reward.

Now, let me address the initial post of Gifted Child where you ask the question, "Once Saved, Always?" You say, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

Love for our fellow man is a "fruit" of our salvation -- not the cause of our salvation. Yes, Jesus Christ knows our heart; He knows our every thought. Yet, we all must still stand before Him in judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10) -- to answer for all our thoughts, words, and deeds as we are told in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. This Bema Seat Judgment will determine our rewards in heaven. But, our greatest reward will be the fact that we are in heaven.

If you will examine Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" -- you will not find any works, not even loving our fellow man. This passage tells us we have been saved . . . not as a result of works. And, loving our fellow man is the works or "fruit" of our salvation -- not the cause of our salvation.

However, once we have, by grace, through faith, been saved (Ephesians 2:8-9); after we have invited Him to come in and be our Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20) -- we have His promises that we HAVE eternal life in Him -- John 3:16, John 6:47, etc. This is a "free gift" which He tells us that we HAVE. Ask yourself this question: Do you honestly believe that Jesus Christ will give us a "free gift" -- and then take it away from us? The Jesus Christ I follow most certainly would not do this.

And, finally, we have the assurance of Romans 8:1, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Gifted Child, thank you for beginning this discussion. These are Biblical facts that all our Friends do need to know.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi B50,

When Gifted Child told us, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

You tell her:

1. If you believe that once you accept Jesus as your savior and have been baptized, you are free to go out and commit a robbery, then no.

2. If you believe that those saved are predetermined by God and no matter how good you are if you are not 'chosen' you go to Hell, then no.

3. If you feel that you are saved and you try everyday to do your best and you say prayers for strength and guidance, then OK.

4. If you feel saying prayers for strength and guidance everyday is a reaffirmation of BEING saved, then that's OK too.

5. As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do.

B50, with your Items 1 and 2, I agree with you. A person may profess Jesus Christ and do these things -- for just declaring one's self a Christian believer doesn't make one a believer. One must confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10), invite Him to come in and be your Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20); and, one must believe and receive Him (John 1:12).

Many folks will stand up and profess Jesus Christ. I declared myself a Christian for most of my life; but, I wasn't a Christian. I had not really opened the door of my heart for Him to come in and be my Lord and Savior. He will not open that door and force His way in; we must choose to open the door of our hearts and invite Him to come in. If we do, He will not refuse us.

When a person has truly confessed Jesus Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior -- changes take place.

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." This is called "regeneration" -- we die to the old person, and are regenerated into the new person, the Christ Follower.

At the same time, the new believer is indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).

Ephesians 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

When one has the Holy Spirit within, He will teach us (John 14:26), empower us (Acts 1:8), guide us (John 16:13), and He will convict us (John 16:7-8). The unsaved man who only professed Jesus Christ, but is not indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit, will not be convicted of his sins. He may feel a twinge of guilt for hurting someone or for doing something against the will of God; but, he will quickly recover and forget it -- for he does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to convict him.

A believer will feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit; a non-believer will not -- and that is why a true believer cannot live as he once did before becoming a Christ Follower.

In your Item 2 you say, "those saved are predetermined by God." This is Calvinist predestination and is not Biblical. We read in Romans 8:29, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren."

In His omniscience, i.e., knowing all things from eternity past to eternity future, He knows who will receive Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. Those whom He foreknew to be believers -- He also predestined to become the image of His Son, i.e., to have immortal bodies like Christ and to spend eternity with Him. So, I agree with you on Item 2 -- no, that is not true.

On Item 3, for us, to each day, do one's best to be Christlike, in actions, in prayer, in obedience to the will of God -- that is a good sign this person is saved and is a child of God. For, being a child of God, we will want to emulate His Son.

On Item 4, I agree, but I would call it a reaffirmation of your decision to follow Jesus Christ. We are indwelled once, forever, by the Holy Spirit -- the moment we receive Jesus Christ. Once He has taken up residence, He cannot be evicted. So, once indwelled, always indwelled.

However, for daily strength to continue our daily walk with the Lord -- we do need daily filling of the Holy Spirit, i.e., we need a daily reaffirmation of our need for His strength, guidance, teaching, and conviction. We gain this through daily prayer and Bible study -- and by being a part of a local Christian fellowship, i.e., church, and being involved in its teachings, Bible studies, Sunday Schools, weekly worship services, and Christian fellowship.

Where we will differ is your Item 5, where you say, "As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do."

If your salvation, if your being a Christian is based upon you being baptized -- that would be salvation by works. Salvation is based completely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross -- and not upon ANY works we can do.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

In Isaiah 64:6 we find God's view of any and all works we might do, "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."

And, in Titus 3:5 we are told, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit."

We receive salvation by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ. The only thing we can do and must do to receive eternal life in Christ -- is to believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation.

Once we do this -- then our works begin to have meaning. For we are told in James 2:17 that, "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." What does this mean? It means that if we are truly regenerated, truly a child of God, truly have the Holy Spirit resident within us -- we WILL want to do things, works, to glorify God. Some will do many; others will do few -- but, the works we do in the name of the Lord AFTER our salvation is the "fruit" of our salvation. And, what value is a tree with no fruit?

Yet, we are told 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 that our works, those things we do for the glory of God, will be tested by the fire of judgment at the Bema Seat Judgment. This is a judgment of rewards in heaven. Those who have done little to glorify God, will receive few rewards. Those who have done much to glorify God, will receive great rewards.

However, we are told in verse 15 that, "If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss (of rewards); but he himself SHALL be saved, yet as through fire." Because this person is a Christian believer, he/she will be in heaven, in the eternal presence of God. That, in itself, is a great reward.

But, with this person, because he/she has produced few, if any, "fruit" which glorifies God -- his/her robe may have the smell of fire upon it. Yet, and this is important -- that person is saved (1 Corinthians 3:15), that person will spend eternity in the presence of God and not in the Lake of Fire with Satan. And that is our greatest reward.

Now, let me address the initial post of Gifted Child where you ask the question, "Once Saved, Always?" You say, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

Love for our fellow man is a "fruit" of our salvation -- not the cause of our salvation. Yes, Jesus Christ knows our heart; He knows our every thought. Yet, we all must still stand before Him in judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10) -- to answer for all our thoughts, words, and deeds as we are told in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. This Bema Seat Judgment will determine our rewards in heaven. But, our greatest reward will be the fact that we are in heaven.

If you will examine Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" -- you will not find any works, not even loving our fellow man. This passage tells us we have been saved . . . not as a result of works. And, loving our fellow man is the works or "fruit" of our salvation -- not the cause of our salvation.

However, once we have, by grace, through faith, been saved (Ephesians 2:8-9); after we have invited Him to come in and be our Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20) -- we have His promises that we HAVE eternal life in Him -- John 3:16, John 6:47, etc. This is a "free gift" which He tells us that we HAVE. Ask yourself this question: Do you honestly believe that Jesus Christ will give us a "free gift" -- and then take it away from us? The Jesus Christ I follow most certainly would not do this.

And, finally, we have the assurance of Romans 8:1, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Gifted Child, thank you for beginning this discussion. These are Biblical facts that all our Friends do need to know.

Simi--- Good golly miss molly. I blame you
for this. lol

i'm gonna go out on a limb here, and make it look like i'm sideing with bill... i'm not, but it's gonna look that way.

once upon a time i had someone who believed in once saved, always saved explain it a whole new way to me, that acctually made sense.

she told me

once you are really truly saved, you stay saved, because all of the little things you used to do that would cause the need for further forgivness are just no longer possible to you.

if you find yourself doing something you must ask forgiveness for, then you weren't really saved to begin with.

so, if you are 'saved' and then go out and mug an old lady, you're still screwed because you were never really saved to begin with.
if you are a habitual mugger, and you become saved, for real, the idea of mugging anyone else is unthinkable to you.

now... i don't know if this is what TheBill has been trying to get across or not, and just failing miserably each time he tried, but phrased the way i did, one can at least see the rational reasoning (from a theological point, billy joe behind it.

i still don't agree with it. i do think it take care of the really big stuff, the obvious intentional transgressions like the mugger from above, but it doesn't allow for any accidental slips, mistakes and failings along the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi B50,

When Gifted Child told us, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

You tell her:

1. If you believe that once you accept Jesus as your savior and have been baptized, you are free to go out and commit a robbery, then no.

2. If you believe that those saved are predetermined by God and no matter how good you are if you are not 'chosen' you go to Hell, then no.

3. If you feel that you are saved and you try everyday to do your best and you say prayers for strength and guidance, then OK.

4. If you feel saying prayers for strength and guidance everyday is a reaffirmation of BEING saved, then that's OK too.

5. As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do.

B50, with your Items 1 and 2, I agree with you. A person may profess Jesus Christ and do these things -- for just declaring one's self a Christian believer doesn't make one a believer. One must confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10), invite Him to come in and be your Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20); and, one must believe and receive Him (John 1:12).

Many folks will stand up and profess Jesus Christ. I declared myself a Christian for most of my life; but, I wasn't a Christian. I had not really opened the door of my heart for Him to come in and be my Lord and Savior. He will not open that door and force His way in; we must choose to open the door of our hearts and invite Him to come in. If we do, He will not refuse us.

When a person has truly confessed Jesus Christ as his/her personal Lord and Savior -- changes take place.

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." This is called "regeneration" -- we die to the old person, and are regenerated into the new person, the Christ Follower.

At the same time, the new believer is indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30).

Ephesians 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

When one has the Holy Spirit within, He will teach us (John 14:26), empower us (Acts 1:8), guide us (John 16:13), and He will convict us (John 16:7-8). The unsaved man who only professed Jesus Christ, but is not indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit, will not be convicted of his sins. He may feel a twinge of guilt for hurting someone or for doing something against the will of God; but, he will quickly recover and forget it -- for he does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to convict him.

A believer will feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit; a non-believer will not -- and that is why a true believer cannot live as he once did before becoming a Christ Follower.

In your Item 2 you say, "those saved are predetermined by God." This is Calvinist predestination and is not Biblical. We read in Romans 8:29, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren."

In His omniscience, i.e., knowing all things from eternity past to eternity future, He knows who will receive Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. Those whom He foreknew to be believers -- He also predestined to become the image of His Son, i.e., to have immortal bodies like Christ and to spend eternity with Him. So, I agree with you on Item 2 -- no, that is not true.

On Item 3, for us, to each day, do one's best to be Christlike, in actions, in prayer, in obedience to the will of God -- that is a good sign this person is saved and is a child of God. For, being a child of God, we will want to emulate His Son.

On Item 4, I agree, but I would call it a reaffirmation of your decision to follow Jesus Christ. We are indwelled once, forever, by the Holy Spirit -- the moment we receive Jesus Christ. Once He has taken up residence, He cannot be evicted. So, once indwelled, always indwelled.

However, for daily strength to continue our daily walk with the Lord -- we do need daily filling of the Holy Spirit, i.e., we need a daily reaffirmation of our need for His strength, guidance, teaching, and conviction. We gain this through daily prayer and Bible study -- and by being a part of a local Christian fellowship, i.e., church, and being involved in its teachings, Bible studies, Sunday Schools, weekly worship services, and Christian fellowship.

Where we will differ is your Item 5, where you say, "As for myself, I have not been baptized so I still have work to do."

If your salvation, if your being a Christian is based upon you being baptized -- that would be salvation by works. Salvation is based completely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross -- and not upon ANY works we can do.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

In Isaiah 64:6 we find God's view of any and all works we might do, "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."

And, in Titus 3:5 we are told, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit."

We receive salvation by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ. The only thing we can do and must do to receive eternal life in Christ -- is to believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation.

Once we do this -- then our works begin to have meaning. For we are told in James 2:17 that, "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." What does this mean? It means that if we are truly regenerated, truly a child of God, truly have the Holy Spirit resident within us -- we WILL want to do things, works, to glorify God. Some will do many; others will do few -- but, the works we do in the name of the Lord AFTER our salvation is the "fruit" of our salvation. And, what value is a tree with no fruit?

Yet, we are told 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 that our works, those things we do for the glory of God, will be tested by the fire of judgment at the Bema Seat Judgment. This is a judgment of rewards in heaven. Those who have done little to glorify God, will receive few rewards. Those who have done much to glorify God, will receive great rewards.

However, we are told in verse 15 that, "If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss (of rewards); but he himself SHALL be saved, yet as through fire." Because this person is a Christian believer, he/she will be in heaven, in the eternal presence of God. That, in itself, is a great reward.

But, with this person, because he/she has produced few, if any, "fruit" which glorifies God -- his/her robe may have the smell of fire upon it. Yet, and this is important -- that person is saved (1 Corinthians 3:15), that person will spend eternity in the presence of God and not in the Lake of Fire with Satan. And that is our greatest reward.

Now, let me address the initial post of Gifted Child where you ask the question, "Once Saved, Always?" You say, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

Love for our fellow man is a "fruit" of our salvation -- not the cause of our salvation. Yes, Jesus Christ knows our heart; He knows our every thought. Yet, we all must still stand before Him in judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10) -- to answer for all our thoughts, words, and deeds as we are told in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. This Bema Seat Judgment will determine our rewards in heaven. But, our greatest reward will be the fact that we are in heaven.

If you will examine Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" -- you will not find any works, not even loving our fellow man. This passage tells us we have been saved . . . not as a result of works. And, loving our fellow man is the works or "fruit" of our salvation -- not the cause of our salvation.

However, once we have, by grace, through faith, been saved (Ephesians 2:8-9); after we have invited Him to come in and be our Lord and Savior (Revelation 3:20) -- we have His promises that we HAVE eternal life in Him -- John 3:16, John 6:47, etc. This is a "free gift" which He tells us that we HAVE. Ask yourself this question: Do you honestly believe that Jesus Christ will give us a "free gift" -- and then take it away from us? The Jesus Christ I follow most certainly would not do this.

And, finally, we have the assurance of Romans 8:1, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Gifted Child, thank you for beginning this discussion. These are Biblical facts that all our Friends do need to know.

Semi--- Good golly miss molly. I blame you for this. lol

Hi Child,

Thank you for repeating all my post. That way, everyone has two chances to read it. I truly do appreciate your help in sharing the Gospel.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

ass seen from the above post, Bill Grays primary sin is Pride, which will cause the once saved always saved idea to not apply to him.
with the arrogance and pride he displayes i think it can be safely shown that bill was never really truly saved, regardless of what he says or believes.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi B50,

When Gifted Child told us, "Once saved always saved has been kicked around unmercifully for some time. What I believe -- When the bucket is kicked, Jesus will look at your heart. He knows you better than you. What does concern him will be your capacity to love. Every part of your individual life is unique to the personal justice of Jesus. Once saved always saved is a cookie cutter approach that won't fit everyone."

Gifted Child, thank you for beginning this discussion. These are Biblical facts that all our Friends do need to know.

Semi--- Good golly miss molly. I blame you for this. lol

Hi Child,

Thank you for repeating all my post. That way, everyone has two chances to read it. I truly do appreciate your help in sharing the Gospel.

BG--- You bet. God can see I help the distubed. I need all the points I can
get, you see, I don't have a ticket. ( sob,sob )

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:
i'm gonna go out on a limb here, and make it look like i'm sideing (sic) with bill... i'm not, but it's gonna look that way.

once upon a time i had someone who believed in once saved, always saved explain it a whole new way to me, that acctually (sic) made sense.

she told me: once you are really truly saved, you stay saved, because all of the little things you used to do that would cause the need for further forgivness (sic) are just no longer possible to you. if you find yourself doing something you must ask forgiveness for, then you weren't really saved to begin with.

so, if you are 'saved' and then go out and mug an old lady, you're still screwed because you were never really saved to begin with. if you are a habitual mugger, and you become saved, for real, the idea of mugging anyone else is unthinkable to you.

now... i don't know if this is what TheBill has been trying to get across or not, and just failing miserably each time he tried, but phrased the way i did, one can at least see the rational reasoning (from a theological point, billy joe) behind it.

i still don't agree with it. i do think it take care of the really big stuff, the obvious intentional transgressions like the mugger from above, but it doesn't allow for any accidental slips, mistakes and failings along the way.

Hi Nagel,

Sorry, my Friend, but neither you nor your friend are right. We who are saved are not sinless; we are "Forgiven Sinners!" There are two kinds of sinners: Forgiven Sinners and Lost Sinners.

Forgiven Sinners are indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit and will be convicted when we do, or contemplate doing, that which is contrary to God's will.

The Lost Sinners who are not indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit will not be convicted. Sure, they may feel occasional twinges of guilt over hurting a friend or doing something wrong. But, as quick as it came -- the conviction left -- for it was not of the Holy Spirit.

The Good News is: That Lost Sinner can turn around, i.e., repent, turn from following the world and turn to follow Jesus Christ. Then, he/she is promoted to Forgiven Sinner status.

Paul tells us in Romans 3:23 that ALL have sinned, and continue sinning, falling short of the glory of God. Yes, that most certainly does include we saved Forgiven Sinners. We will have our sin nature which was inherited from Adam -- until we either die or are Raptured. But, the great news is that we, from the moment of salvation and sealing by the Holy Spirit -- we are covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ. When God looks at us, He does not see our true sinful person. Instead, He sees the pure righteousness of Jesus Christ which covers us. That is a comfort to all true believers.

Yet, daily, we Forgiven Sinners must repent, ask forgiveness, and seek His strength to overcome our weak, human sin nature. We will never overcome it in this life -- but, we can gain strength from the Holy Spirit for resisting the temptations of life.

And, we have the blessed promise of Jesus Christ that the moment we leave this old mortal body, we also leave behind our sin nature -- and go to be with Him. At the Rapture we will all gain our immortal, glorified bodies, which is like His glorified body. What a glorious day that will be.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child: BG -- You bet. God can see I help the distubed. I need all the points I can get, you see, I don't have a ticket. ( sob,sob )

Hi Child,

Yes, that is sad. However, if you do not yet have a ticket on the Glory Train -- you can get one easily. It is FREE.

Take a look at Ephesians 2:8-9. This is the guaranteed guidelines for getting on the Glory Train. Hope to see you there!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

There are two kinds of sinners: Forgiven Sinners and Lost Sinners

Nope- 3.
The ones who CONTINUE to sin, and CONTINUE to seek God's mercy.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

There are two kinds of sinners: Forgiven Sinners and Lost Sinners

Nope- 3.
The ones who CONTINUE to sin, and CONTINUE to seek God's mercy.

Veep---- Nice right cross.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
.

Hi Nagel,

Sorry, my Friend, but neither you nor your friend are right. [/QUOTE]

So Sayth TheBill.

ah well.

i tried, but even trying to meet him half way was pointless it seems.

ok.. well, then, i'm saved, so since i don't have to worry about it i cna just get on with my life and go back to booze and loose women and try and see what theft is like.. maybe look into fisiting the bunny ranch out in nevada, and see how much a pair of hookers will cost me for a few hours.

i mean.. why not? since i'm saved, i've got nothing to worry about as long as my wife doesnt find out about the hookers.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:
[maybe look into fisiting the bunny ranch out in nevada, and see how much a pair of hookers will cost me for a few hours.

What are you going to do out at the bunny ranch!!!!! LMAO

There are web sites dedicated to this sort of thing I believe.

(ps I knew what you meant, and I am certainly not one to critique someones spelling, but that just made me loose it. I love it. )

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
.

Hi Nagel,

Sorry, my Friend, but neither you nor your friend are right.

So Sayth TheBill.

ah well.

i tried, but even trying to meet him half way was pointless it seems.

ok.. well, then, i'm saved, so since i don't have to worry about it i cna just get on with my life and go back to booze and loose women and try and see what theft is like.. maybe look into fisiting the bunny ranch out in nevada, and see how much a pair of hookers will cost me for a few hours.

i mean.. why not? since i'm saved, i've got nothing to worry about as long as my wife doesnt find out about the hookers.[/QUOTE]

I know I've been saved many times so, everything in sou. cal. will die.
God Bless.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:
[maybe look into fisiting the bunny ranch out in nevada, and see how much a pair of hookers will cost me for a few hours.

What are you going to do out at the bunny ranch!!!!! LMAO

There are web sites dedicated to this sort of thing I believe.

(ps I knew what you meant, and I am certainly not one to critique someones spelling, but that just made me loose it. I love it. )

ROFL.. OMG...

VISITING i meant VISITING..

sweet tapdancing Jehivah...

well, i guess if you're gonna typo hardcore, it's nice when it turns a funny one.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

There are two kinds of sinners: Forgiven Sinners and Lost Sinners

Nope- 3. The ones who CONTINUE to sin, and CONTINUE to seek God's mercy.

Hi VP,

Actually, you will find that those folks fall into the "Forgiven Sinners" group. For, all Christian believers are "forgiven" but, we are still "sinners."

So, only two groups. Those on the UP escalator and those on the DOWN escalator. The UP escalator is the one which connects with the Glory Train. And, Jesus Christ has already punched my ticket! Praise God!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Actually, you will find that those folks fall into the "Forgiven Sinners" group. For, all Christian believers are "forgiven" but, we are still "sinners."

So, only two groups. Those on the UP escalator and those on the DOWN escalator. The UP escalator is the one which connects with the Glory Train. And, Jesus Christ has already punched my ticket! Praise God!

Aaaaaaaaaaactually, I believe that there are 3. I don't believe God has forgiven since we've not yet committed.
I agree that there are 2 final destinations, but how we get there? Well now thats not so "cut and dried".
3 groups.

Nagel,

I'd normally say that if you were Nevada-bound, take me with you.

Um,maybe not this time.

Ah come on BJBG!

We could both go and hold the camera.

Nagel, you owe me. I just spit my drink all over myself.
fisting? bunny farm?
what the heck kind of minister are you!?!?!?

A MINISTER OF LOVE.

YEAH BABY!

lmao!

oh dear god.

i meant VISITING!

i'm not goign to be allowed to forget this one, am i?

minister of love?

/whimper....