Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:

I see a lot of people intimating that my eternal soul is in peril, but what I'm NOT finding is anybody actually explaining the discrepancy I mentioned.

 

Is there any official explanation that Christians have for this? Or, do they just write it off as one of the "patented replies" people use when they don't understand how someone can be told two (or three...) contradictory things and believe that both are literally true?

 

I'm honestly curious to hear from the devout how they resolve this conflict. It seems clear to me that the three accounts in the four Gospels cannot all be true, so I'd like to know what kind of thinking goes into accepting that the works are literal and infallible.

 

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be pleased to listen.

 

n.b.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

If I had any proof showing me you are capable of being enlightened,

I might waste some time on it, or maybe not? I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:

Is there any official explanation that Christians have for this? Or, do they just write it off as one of the "patented replies" people use when they don't understand how someone can be told two (or three...) contradictory things and believe that both are literally true?

-------

 

You will almost certainly receive one of the folowing replies:

 

1. You are too stupid to understand

2. You do not have the "spiritual discernment" necessary to understand this

3. Your mind is already made up to so why bother explaining?

Whatever the case, you will not receive anything resembling a rational answer to your serious question.   Sorry. 

Ooh, I left this one off,

" If I had any proof showing me you are capable of being enlightened,

I might waste some time on it, or maybe not? I'm not sure."

 

Or perhaps this falls under #1?  Either way, there is no answer so the best they can do is call you stupid. 

Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:

I see a lot of people intimating that my eternal soul is in peril, but what I'm NOT finding is anybody actually explaining the discrepancy I mentioned.

 

Is there any official explanation that Christians have for this? Or, do they just write it off as one of the "patented replies" people use when they don't understand how someone can be told two (or three...) contradictory things and believe that both are literally true?

 

I'm honestly curious to hear from the devout how they resolve this conflict. It seems clear to me that the three accounts in the four Gospels cannot all be true, so I'd like to know what kind of thinking goes into accepting that the works are literal and infallible.

 

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be pleased to listen.

 

n.b.

-------------------------------

 

NB,,,,Out of the three Gospels you mentioned, I believe I would go with

John. He being the only apostle at the cross.

 

.

Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:

I see a lot of people intimating that my eternal soul is in peril, but what I'm NOT finding is anybody actually explaining the discrepancy I mentioned.

 

Is there any official explanation that Christians have for this? Or, do they just write it off as one of the "patented replies" people use when they don't understand how someone can be told two (or three...) contradictory things and believe that both are literally true?

 

I'm honestly curious to hear from the devout how they resolve this conflict. It seems clear to me that the three accounts in the four Gospels cannot all be true, so I'd like to know what kind of thinking goes into accepting that the works are literal and infallible.

 

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be pleased to listen.

 

n.b.

_____________

With regard to the Gospels, I've been in meetings where five people heard six different things.  This is only a problem if you believe the Bible is to be taken as literal.  99% of all Christians are looking for the important messages in the Bible.  The fundamentalist wackos who believe the Bible should be taken literally tend to miss the point entirely.  Instead of a spiritual blueprint, they see a blueprint for everything, including the fact that the sun and the universe revolve around the earth, that the universe is only 6k years old, and that man was made out of dirt by magic.  Don't let the radicals and their distortions divert your attention.

Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:

Matthew 27 and Mark 15 both say Jesus said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?", was offered vinegar, cried out again and died.

Luke 23 says that Jesus was offered vinegar more than three hours before dying, and said several things afterwards. It also says that his last words were "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."

John says that Jesus said he was thirsty and was given the vinegar. From there, he said "It is finished" and died.

 

These words are from NIV, which actually includes the Aramaic for Matthew and Mark, though it spells them differently. (Hrm. So, those are also inconsistent. Hrm.)

So, we have two disparate timelines, and three distinct versions of what Jesus's last words were. Which of these is correct?

If we go with the first account, in Matthew and Mark, then both Luke and John are incorrect. If we go with either Luke or John, then three of the Gospels are incorrect.

We have a situation here where clearly there is error in the Bible. It cannot all be literal truth if there are three statements here that contradict each other.

If the Bible is not all literal truth, how can we (as mere, flawed humans) determine which parts are literal truth and which are not? Can we honestly have any faith in the absolute literal truthfulness of a work which is clearly not absolutely literally true? What percentage of the book, then, should we believe to be correct, as it clearly is not 100% so?

 

I cannot put my faith in something as literal truth when I know it is flawed. I cannot put my faith in something as the word of God when it clearly has had thousands of years of men's hands in it.

 

Consider, as recently as 1960, in a tremendously well-documented society, a man was born in Hawaii, and yet 50 years later we have people who believe AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH that he was not, and writing about it, and broadcasting their misunderstandings. In 1,000 years, if those were the writings found by future archaeologists, they would come to the conclusion that the man was not born in Hawaii, despite the well-documented reality of the situation.

 

From a largely pre-literate society, where some people had something to gain from making the fish a little bigger in their fish stories, I have negligible faith in the surviving writings as literal truth. Especially when they contradict each other.

 

Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:

I see a lot of people intimating that my eternal soul is in peril, but what I'm NOT finding is anybody actually explaining the discrepancy I mentioned.

 

Is there any official explanation that Christians have for this? Or, do they just write it off as one of the "patented replies" people use when they don't understand how someone can be told two (or three...) contradictory things and believe that both are literally true?

 

I'm honestly curious to hear from the devout how they resolve this conflict. It seems clear to me that the three accounts in the four Gospels cannot all be true, so I'd like to know what kind of thinking goes into accepting that the works are literal and infallible.

 

If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be pleased to listen.

 

n.b. 




 

I'm not sure how the status of one sternal soul correlates with the assertion that there is an error in the Scriptures other than potentially to say if Scriptures are in conflict that somehow that provides an out against the judgment we all must face but still it remains a valid question.  Whether or not you receive an answer that sufficiently answers your question, to your satisfaction is anyone's guess.

 

By reading I assume you are claiming that since Matthew, Mark, Luke & John are not carbon copies of each other that there exist an error or, if not you some, that the Bible is not reliable as a communication from God unto Mankind.

Matthew 27:47-50 (AMP) (those around the Cross,mention of Elijah offer wine for comfort after which he drinks He dies. )
{47} And some of the bystanders, when they heard it, said, This Man is calling for Elijah!
{48} And one of them immediately ran and took a sponge, soaked it with vinegar (a sour wine), and put it on a reed (staff), and was about to give it to Him to drink.
{49} But the others said, Wait! Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him from death.
{50} And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit.

 

Mark 15:35-37 (AMP) (followers of Jesus, Looking for Elijah offer wine for comfort after which he drinks He dies.)
{35} And some of those standing by, [and] hearing it, said, See! He is calling Elijah!
{36} And one man ran, and, filling a sponge with vinegar (a mixture of sour wine and water), put it on a staff made of a [bamboo-like] reed and gave it to Him to drink, saying, Hold off! Let us see whether Elijah [does] come to take Him down.
{37} And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed out His life.

 

Luke 23:35-40 (AMP)  
{35} Now the people stood by [calmly and leisurely] watching; but the rulers scoffed and sneered (turned up their noses) at Him, saying, He rescued others [from death]; let Him now rescue Himself, if He is the Christ (the Messiah) of God, His Chosen One!
{36} The soldiers also ridiculed and made sport of Him, coming up and offering Him vinegar (a sour wine mixed with water)
{37} And saying, If you are the King of the Jews, save (rescue) Yourself [from death].
{38} For there was also an inscription above Him in letters of Greek and Latin and Hebrew: This is the King of the Jews.
{39} One of the criminals who was suspended kept up a railing at Him, saying, Are You not the Christ (the Messiah)? Rescue Yourself and us [from death]!
{40} But the other one reproved him, saying, Do you not even fear God, seeing you yourself are under the same sentence of condemnation and suffering the same penalty?

 

John 19:27-30 (AMP) (Some say that this rendering can also be a separate time from Matthew/Mark but I personally believe it is the same as Matthew/Mark and just reveals some additional details as who was there and said what.  Again these were three different people recording what they see through their eyes or testimony.)
{27} Then He said to the disciple, See, [here is] your mother! And from that hour, the disciple took her into his own [keeping, own home].
{28} After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished (ended), said in fulfillment of the Scripture, I thirst.
{29} A vessel (jar) full of sour wine (vinegar) was placed there, so they put a sponge soaked in the sour wine on [a stalk, reed of] hyssop, and held it to [His] mouth.
{30} When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.

Here we have four sections of scripture all relating events of one event.  This event transpired over some six hours, in time,and reading Matthew, Mark, and John seem to relate approximately the same point in time and that being the moment Christ dies.  Luke however is relating a different event and should not be considered the same event timewise.  In three of the renderings it is caring and followers of Jesus who care for His well being and comfort and offer Him the drink to help His comfort.   Luke is relating a different event, timewise from those related in Matthew, Mark, and John.  For one Luke identifies the ones presenting the drink out of sport and ridicule taunting Him to prove to them He is who He said he was by taking Himself down off the cross.  They are offering the drink out of taunting not attempting to comfort Christ.  Although the there that reference the same time period are not identical one would expect three different people writing from what they knew/observed/recorded would not be expect to be carbon copies of each other otherwise sure allegations of fraud and that it would be faked.  These writings were also later assembled into the scriptures we call the Bible.

 

There is no conflict of Scriptures as you seem to want to indicate that there is then as a challenge, almost, stating that no Christian is willing to confront this and explain it.   I also don't know about the statement that you see a lot of people here stating that your eternal soul is in peril but the Scriptures do say that everyone's soul/spirit is eternal and that Christ Jesus came and died as a sacrifice for our sins in order to provide us with an escape from judgment.  Christ is our only escape of Judgment that will occur one day for He is the only perfect blood sacrifice enabling us, gentiles, and jews, to obtain salvation.  It is not the members of this forum that will judge you or me but God who will Judge us all.  

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by NunyoBidness:
<snipped for space>

 

NB,,,,Out of the three Gospels you mentioned, I believe I would go with

John. He being the only apostle at the cross.

 

.

Note that the Apostle John provides the most defined description of the event by including more specifically who was there and who said what as well as indicating why the drink was offered.  The drink was offered due to Christ indicating he was thirsty.  Matthew and Mark did not indicate the reason the drink was offered.

Best, of course they cannot explain the contridictions.  They've never studied them.  These aren't the kinds of things you learn in Sunday school.

I can almost guarantee you that none of them have ever heard of the "Q" gospel.  Most scholars agree that the gospels were hammed together from various sources who sort of, ummm, borrowed material from more ancient sources to come up with the fictional story of Jesus.That original author is called "Q," 

 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

Best, of course they cannot explain the contridictions.  They've never studied them.  These aren't the kinds of things you learn in Sunday school.

I can almost guarantee you that none of them have ever heard of the "Q" gospel.  Most scholars agree that the gospels were hammed together from various sources who sort of, ummm, borrowed material from more ancient sources to come up with the fictional story of Jesus.That original author is called "Q," 

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Q  Doesn't exist.

.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

Best, of course they cannot explain the contridictions.  They've never studied them.  These aren't the kinds of things you learn in Sunday school.

I can almost guarantee you that none of them have ever heard of the "Q" gospel.  Most scholars agree that the gospels were hammed together from various sources who sort of, ummm, borrowed material from more ancient sources to come up with the fictional story of Jesus.That original author is called "Q," 

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Q  Doesn't exist.

 

 

Not really, but Locutus does. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

.

rum_mama, my friend and I have a few questions for you. If you don't want to answer them that's ok. Seeing as they are of a very personal nature.

Are you a transvestite? Or are you just a man that likes to dress up in drag? My friend happened to see your avatar the other day while we were hanging out and I was reading some threads on here and she wanted me to ask you these things. Again if you don't want to answer we understand completely.

Bill why would you say that you aimed this thread at the atheist? That makes no sense. We don't believe in ANY of it. If you will notice the only ones that are arguing this point with you are other Christians. I have only seen this done among Christians.

 

I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven. It's ALL BS to me.

 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

        LOL.  Dark, are you a cat who wears glasses, or Radar O'Reilly with a furry face?





I'm a cat that wears glasses and asks way too many questions.  LOL  I had to google who Radar O'Reilly is and I had never realized how much he looks like George off of Seinfeld.

quote:   Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Bill, why would you say that you aimed this thread at the atheist? That makes no sense. We don't believe in ANY of it.  If you will notice the only ones that are arguing this point with you are other Christians.  I have only seen this done among Christians.

 

I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven.   It's ALL BS to me.

 
Hi Dark,

 

If you will go back and read my initial post, you will find that I did NOT say that this post is aimed at the atheists.  I said that I initially come on the Religion Forum in 2007 to refute the false teachings of the atheist, then primarily Deep and Fish.

 

But, the purpose of my post for this discussion is declared in this statement from my initial post:

 

My non-believing Friends on the Religion Forum continue to challenge me to prove these beliefs.  And, when I do offer Biblical foundation for my beliefs -- they refuse to hear it, they deny it, and they keep asking me, "Bill, you are always preaching OSAS.   Prove it!"

Wee, gee whiz, fellows and gals -- I have shown you practically every Scripture verse in the Bible -- supported by commentary writings from many very knowledgeable pastors, theologians, and Bible scholars.  Yet, you still demand, "Prove it!"


A non-believing Friend could be either a person who is not a Christian -- or it could be a Christian who does not believe the same as I believe.  But, here, I was referring more to my vanilla-flavored non-believing Friends who are not Christian -- yet, want to authoritatively define what a Christian is and what a Christian should believe; even though he/she is not a believer.  

 

So, my Friends who do not follow Jesus Christ anyway -- tells us that they do not believe in eternal security in Christ, i. e., the teaching of "once saved, always saved."  

 

Well, that is sort of like the person who does not like football, and does not follow football -- but, wants to tell Nick Saban how to coach our Alabama team.   Not much credibility.


So, Dark, my Friend, that was, and is, the main thrust of this discussion.

 

But, I am curious.  You tell me, "I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven. It's ALL BS to me." 

 

Then, since you have absolutely no interest in God, nor how to get to heaven, nor how a person attains eternal security in Christ -- why did you come into a discussion titled, "'Once Saved, Always Saved' -- Really?"  Just reading the title would tell me that this is purely a Christian issue. 

 

So, what brought you into the discussion?  And, why do you then question why I wrote it -- if you (as an atheist) could care less?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

The Bible has no contridictions in it but only different peoples writing of what happened at a certain event.

Let's consider the terrible events that happened on 9/11. Several thousand people saw the planes as they crashed into the twin towers and I would just guess that if 10 of those thousand people sat down and wrote about what they saw their prospective would all be different. BUT, ultimately they would ALL say that TWO PLANES did indeed crash into the twin towers. Those areas in the Bible that you athiest call contridictions are merely different peoples accounts of what they say and ultimately they saw the same thing but only worded differently.  Grasping at straws aren't we?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Bill, why would you say that you aimed this thread at the atheist? That makes no sense. We don't believe in ANY of it.  If you will notice the only ones that are arguing this point with you are other Christians.  I have only seen this done among Christians.

 

I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven.   It's ALL BS to me.

 
Hi Dark,

 

If you will go back and read my initial post, you will find that I did NOT say that this post is aimed at the atheists. <Omitted, by me, for space>

 

But, I am curious.  You tell me, "I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven. It's ALL BS to me." 

 

Then, since you have absolutely no interest in God, nor how to get to heaven, nor how a person attains eternal security in Christ -- why did you come into a discussion titled, "'Once Saved, Always Saved' -- Really?"  Just reading the title would tell me that this is purely a Christian issue. 

 

So, what brought you into the discussion?  And, why do you then question why I wrote it -- if you (as an atheist) could care less?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

An excellent and most relevant question considering how you were jumped on as if you came into some forum posting something as if it was not welcome in the forum.  


You will, however, get the same patented responses about how this question has been answered a hundred times and therefore does not warrant another answer.  How dare you ask a question that has been ask before and certainly one which might reveal the real nature behind these people and what it really says about their motives and who/what they are.  Notice also how someway someone will try and inject that we, Christians, go over in the Atheist forums as if the fact that there are some Christians that do that somehow justifies the great number of atheist/non-beleivers here.  Some of them however are very open about it expressing their hatred  for our "religion" and the reason they are here is to call "BS" as they say on everything we post as if there is some large atheistic following here on the Religion forum, that somehow may see our post or that people are forced to be here somehow against their will.


It will though be interesting yet again to see the answer to your question ... that is provided you get an original one.  I will though re-paste a reply below this one that I first posted September 14th, 2011 at 2:50PM under the topic "Pray for Rain".  I think in many cases it also potentially hits so close to the target that there wasn't much said about it.

Bill Gray wrote in a previous posts, under this subject, the following in response to Dark Angel's critique of Bill's post regarding a "Christian" subject/topic posted under the Religion forum.

 

But, I am curious.  You tell me, "I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven. It's ALL BS to me." 

 

Then, since you have absolutely no interest in God, nor how to get to heaven, nor how a person attains eternal security in Christ -- why did you come into a discussion titled, "'Once Saved, Always Saved' -- Really?"  Just reading the title would tell me that this is purely a Christian issue. 

 

So, what brought you into the discussion?  And, why do you then question why I wrote it -- if you (as an atheist) could care less?

 

This usually elicits the same responses such as it's all been answered before, It's been ask a hundred times before and answered to we should go back, find, and research the answer.  I, under the "Pray for Rain" had another idea, thought, or theory which I will re-paste below.  I think in some cases it provides a suggestion or theory as to why we see such terse post in response to our attempts to have a dialog about Christian issues.  It's also interesting to point out that it doesn't matter what the subject is there are at least some atheist/non-belivers who make it a point to barge in and tell us how stupid or idiotic we are for believing or some demeaning comments.  So I will re-post what my thoughts were as I pondered why so many, who claim they care nothing about God or religion, seem to gravitate here and cannot seem to withhold their criticism as if someone reached out and pulled them, kicking and screaming, into the forum about Religion.

 

GBRK posted on September 14, 2011

Over the days that I participated continually in the forum I've always wondered why atheist and non-believers are so prevalent in a forum that seems dedicated to something they either reject or don't believe in or about a God or Deity that they say doesn't exist or that they don't care about.


Others have said they aren't here to convert anyone and often it is said that atheist or non-believers are here to call BS on the stupidity or something like that.  I have set on the side at times, without jumping in and just read the replies and post and it seems to me I had the answer all along.  You and others are here for a very good and valid reason and one which should answer your own questions about if God exist or whether or not God exist.


Each of you, in your own way, seek to do battle with God, you seek to defeat God to overwhelm God to be supreme to God and that impossibility resonates within your conscience.  That inner created soul/spirit within you, that same one that will still exist after your physical body dies, longs to know it's creator and without that right relationship with God, it's creator, is an unsatisfying thorn in your flesh.  It eats you alive that there is some need for God that you cannot squelch so you seek to do battle with that urge and need, in effect do battle with God who is convicting you with His Holy Spirit, by doing battle with God by proxy.  You cannot silence God or defeat God so you battle is carried to those who represent God, Those who call themselves Christians or believers, on here.  


You may can present a case on here where you seemingly prevail over God or where you feel you have prevailed over some other Christian who disagrees with you but what you are doing is trying to silence that inner call, from God, that lets you know that there is something else that you do not grasp and that is a right relationship with the (your) creator.  You cannot battle God so you battle those that are called by His name.  You seek to demean them or ridicule them in your attempts to do the same to God hoping that will give you the feeling of overcoming God but yet it does little to actually end that inner torment that you deal with every second, every minute, every day.


I do truly believe that many of you are here for that reason.  You wish to overcome and convince others, including convincing yourself, that you have overcome and defeated God.  You seek to blame "our Religion" or claim we are deluded by belief in a God that somehow you cannot experience or know.  The reason you don't know God is you have never met God or given yourself over to God and allowed God to introduce Himself to you and reconcile your inner spirit with His Holy Spirit.  


There may be a few that are here only to be destructive as they can and abusive as they can but I believe the real reason is what I said above.  There is an inner battle being waged with God's Spirit within and you seek to overcome God by overcoming His proclaimed servants.  You wage a battle by Proxy for you cannot overcome God and stop that inner torment and inner decision that you deal with daily.  The only way you will overcome that torment is to allow God to speak with you and humble yourself enough to listen.  Jesus Christ died for us to have that ability to actually communicate with God directly and not have to go through a priest or a Holy of Holies.  Through Christ and our acceptance of His Sacrifice on the Cross for our Sins we actually have direct access to God and can experience the magnitude of being before God.  There IS no question that remains about IF God exist for that is answered in a most demonstrative way, by God Himself.


Debate and verbally wage written battle with words as much as you want on these forums with those of us who call ourselves Christian but know that God does His own dealing with people and the real question you must ask and answer is whether God is actually the one dealing with you for that inner void and vacancy doesn't go away or get better by on it's own or by any prevailing one way or the other over a person whom says they believe in God.  


I have no way of proving any of that but I fully believe that to be the case in some of those on here and why they are here so often and in every topic.  They are here for a need and one which cannot be squelched by calling any of us demeaning names or seeking to prevail in an open debate.  


Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Bill, why would you say that you aimed this thread at the atheist? That makes no sense. We don't believe in ANY of it.  If you will notice the only ones that are arguing this point with you are other Christians.  I have only seen this done among Christians.

 

I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven.   It's ALL BS to me.

 
Hi Dark,

 

If you will go back and read my initial post, you will find that I did NOT say that this post is aimed at the atheists.  I said that I initially come on the Religion Forum in 2007 to refute the false teachings of the atheist, then primarily Deep and Fish.

 

But, the purpose of my post for this discussion is declared in this statement from my initial post:

 

My non-believing Friends on the Religion Forum continue to challenge me to prove these beliefs.  And, when I do offer Biblical foundation for my beliefs -- they refuse to hear it, they deny it, and they keep asking me, "Bill, you are always preaching OSAS.   Prove it!"

Wee, gee whiz, fellows and gals -- I have shown you practically every Scripture verse in the Bible -- supported by commentary writings from many very knowledgeable pastors, theologians, and Bible scholars.  Yet, you still demand, "Prove it!"


A non-believing Friend could be either a person who is not a Christian -- or it could be a Christian who does not believe the same as I believe.  But, here, I was referring more to my vanilla-flavored non-believing Friends who are not Christian -- yet, want to authoritatively define what a Christian is and what a Christian should believe; even though he/she is not a believer.  

 

So, my Friends who do not follow Jesus Christ anyway -- tells us that they do not believe in eternal security in Christ, i. e., the teaching of "once saved, always saved."  

 

Well, that is sort of like the person who does not like football, and does not follow football -- but, wants to tell Nick Saban how to coach our Alabama team.   Not much credibility.


So, Dark, my Friend, that was, and is, the main thrust of this discussion.

 

But, I am curious.  You tell me, "I (as an atheist) could care less which way you believe your God will save you and take you to heaven. It's ALL BS to me." 

 

Then, since you have absolutely no interest in God, nor how to get to heaven, nor how a person attains eternal security in Christ -- why did you come into a discussion titled, "'Once Saved, Always Saved' -- Really?"  Just reading the title would tell me that this is purely a Christian issue. 

 

So, what brought you into the discussion?  And, why do you then question why I wrote it -- if you (as an atheist) could care less?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I read every new topic when I visit here. Just my habit. I can do that you know....free will and all.

 

This is what I was responding to, you posted to okuok:

 

"So, my whole focus is on addressing those folk -- those atheists and other non-believers who jump on these issues when I mention  them.  That was my focus.  And, although there are Christian believers who also disagree with me -- my mental focus was not on  them -- but, instead, it was on the atheist and other non-believers."

 

Now why would YOU post something like this aimed at atheist who don't believe either way? Makes no sense. As I said before the only ones that argue this OSAS issue with you are other Christians. Show me one post by an atheist where they tried to argue against OSAS in favor of another form of Christian salvation.....show me....

 

You and GK seem to have the same affliction. Can't remember what you wrote even if it was only yesterday....age maybe?

 

You were caught calling Christians non-believers so you threw in the comment about addressing atheist to cover your true feelings on the matter. Okuok, had called you out and said you were sinning. You think that if a Christian does not believe as you do then they are "non-believers" I have been reading here long enough to know that about you.  You believe your interpretation of the bible is the only true one. Everyone one else is wrong and vanilla flavored at best. Right?

 

One more time I will tell you and GK, and the other Christians that question why I come to the religion forum. I come here because I like to discuss the topic of religion. It plays a big role in ALL our lives whether we want it to or not. I don't have to believe that something is real to talk and discuss it. You believe it right? I want to try and understand why and how you could believe such stuff. So far I have not had any real or truthful answers...but I keep waiting and reading.

 

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Debate and verbally wage written battle with words as much as you want on these forums with those of us who call ourselves Christian but know that God does His own dealing with people and the real question you must ask and answer is whether God is actually the one dealing with you for that inner void and vacancy doesn't go away or get better by on it's own or by any prevailing one way or the other over a person whom says they believe in God.  


I have no way of proving any of that but I fully believe that to be the case in some of those on here and why they are here so often and in every topic.  They are here for a need and one which cannot be squelched by calling any of us demeaning names or seeking to prevail in an open debate.  


 

 

You could not be more wrong GK. Back to the drawing board.....

Not Once, But Many Times But what about Romans 10:9-10? Doesn’t the Bible say if you believe in your heart and confess Jesus with your mouth you shall be saved? Yes it does, but that doesn’t mean we need only confess faith in Christ one time. The Bible uses the same Greek word for confess, homologeitai, in multiple places and emphasizes we must continue to confess Christ if we are going to be finally saved. For example, in Matthew 10:22, 32 Jesus says, "You will be hated by all because of my name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.. . . Therefore everyone who confesses me before men, I will also confess him before my father who is in heaven. . . ." (NAB). The context here is one of holding fast to our confession until death (see also 2 Tm 2:12 and Heb 4:14; 10:23-26).
Originally Posted by I am the Fireman:

The Bible has no contridictions in it but only different peoples writing of what happened at a certain event.

Let's consider the terrible events that happened on 9/11. Several thousand people saw the planes as they crashed into the twin towers and I would just guess that if 10 of those thousand people sat down and wrote about what they saw their prospective would all be different. BUT, ultimately they would ALL say that TWO PLANES did indeed crash into the twin towers. Those areas in the Bible that you athiest call contridictions are merely different peoples accounts of what they say and ultimately they saw the same thing but only worded differently.  Grasping at straws aren't we?

_________________

The minor contradictions prove that God didn't write the Bible.  The major ones - like an eye for an eye, turn the other cheek - pretty much do away with the idea that the Bible is inerrant.  Then you get to the silliness that using "genealogy" in the Bible proves that the earth is only 6k years old, you have pretty much destroyed that it should be taken literally.  After you come to terms with all that, maybe then you can find the real message in the Bible.

Crusty, I would beg to differ with you on that "major contradiction." The eye for an eye law was given to the Children of Israel as they traveled in the wilderness. They had no jails in which to place criminals...or Ronnie Willis to protect them (yes, that was sarcasm). Don't you think the possibility of such a punishment would deter crime?

 

"Turning the other cheek" doesn't mean we have to be masochists or doormats. We forgive and try to help those who have sinned against us. It doesn't literally mean we have to stand there and let someone hit us again.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

As I said before the only ones that argue this OSAS issue with you are other Christians.

 

Okuok, had called you out and said you were sinning. You think that if a Christian does not believe as you do then they are "non-believers" I have been reading here long enough to know that about you.  You believe your interpretation of the bible is the only true one. Everyone one else is wrong and vanilla flavored at best. Right?

 

One more time I will tell you and GK, and the other Christians that question why I come to the religion forum. I come here because I like to discuss the topic of religion. It plays a big role in ALL our lives whether we want it to or not. I don't have to believe that something is real to talk and discuss it. You believe it right? I want to try and understand why and how you could believe such stuff. So far I have not had any real or truthful answers...but I keep waiting and reading.

 

_________________________________

No, it's not only Christians that argue the OSAS issue with Bill.

I'm not a Christian & I've given Bill scripture after scripture that speaks against OSAS. Bill skips those post that he can't answer. He had rather argue & make fun of others than have an adult discussion.

 

It's none of anyone's business why you come to this forum. Bill has questioned why I'm here. I'm not an Atheist, but I'm not a Christian either. I'm always willing to learn when someone can show me I'm wrong & prove it. Not just their opinion on what the Bible says, but proof. Like you, I'm still waiting & reading.

 

I've said it before & will say it again. I believe, with all my heart, that Bill is not a Christian, he just wears the hat. He does more to harm Christianity & I feel sorry for him.

 

Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Crusty, I would beg to differ with you on that "major contradiction." The eye for an eye law was given to the Children of Israel as they traveled in the wilderness. They had no jails in which to place criminals...or Ronnie Willis to protect them (yes, that was sarcasm). Don't you think the possibility of such a punishment would deter crime?

 

"Turning the other cheek" doesn't mean we have to be masochists or doormats. We forgive and try to help those who have sinned against us. It doesn't literally mean we have to stand there and let someone hit us again.

______________

It doesn't literally mean that?  

 

I don't want to get into the historical accuracy of Exodus, but there is little evidence for any of it.  Unless of course, the Ark of the Covenant is in Warehouse 13. 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by gbrk:
Debate and verbally wage written battle with words as much as you want on these forums with those of us who call ourselves Christian but know that God does His own dealing with people and the real question you must ask and answer is whether God is actually the one dealing with you for that inner void and vacancy doesn't go away or get better by on it's own or by any prevailing one way or the other over a person whom says they believe in God.  


I have no way of proving any of that but I fully believe that to be the case in some of those on here and why they are here so often and in every topic.  They are here for a need and one which cannot be squelched by calling any of us demeaning names or seeking to prevail in an open debate.  


 

 

You could not be more wrong GK. Back to the drawing board.....




The points, and people, that I was addressing were not those who wish to enter into respectful debate or disagreement and present their position to defend it or argue against another's position as that is what I would fully expect the forum to be for.   

 

The problem that I have, and the people that I addressed the comment mainly to and about are, with those who disguise debate or comments as insults and personal demeaning remarks about other individuals.  There certainly are and have been cases where the topic or subject has not mattered whatsoever but any and every opportunity to ridicule Christian individuals is taken and it's done in a personal manner.  It's also done by twisting what was stated into something totally different and then running with it as if the person said it.  There is no indication that any dialog is desired or intended but rather attempt to conquer at any and every opportunity in a badgering way.

 

There have been others, non-Christians who have also noticed this and called various members on it, ReleaseTheElephant being one of those who accurately described what was going on.  It is those who practice deception and ridicule as well as seemingly being here for only to demean anyone who claims to be a Christian that I attempted to reason why they were here and what purpose they would have in a forum described for something they do not believe in.   Oh there are statements that it is for Religion and other practices but I have yet to see it in writing and at this point it simply is not there.  Regardless if it was that still does not justify the personal demeaning statements made against Christians.  Or by any Christian if that is or was done.

 

One simply has to look at historical subject post and see that even when it is a post or subject that is targeted toward other Christians they (we) are not allowed to debate among ourselves without being ridiculed and  attacked.  In those replies against us (Christians), there is no debate going on and no dialog explaining conflicting beliefs but rather there is just ridicule and heckling of those who seek to discuss some Christian doctrine or issue among others.  It is that mentality that I stand against and therefore post against and not genuine and respectful disagreement or debate.  Lest my words be twisted again I will state we are not seeking a forum for ourselves or to restrict the forum to any specific group or people but rather I am saying those who choose to not use the forum for anything but heckling and personal demeaning remarks for the sake of attack and for the sake of downing someone that believes in something that they don't.  

 

All one has to do is look at the historical evidence and it is plain that no opposing argument, at least by many, is being put forth and debated but rather the persons (Christians) are being attacked or personally demeaned for their belief.  My opinion about why many of those are here still stands and I am not convinced otherwise so no need to go back to the drawing board on that.


With regard to someone who over and over demonstrates the opposite of the type person I am talking about, that would be semi.  She calms not to be a Christian and differs with many Christians on here but she is RESPECTFUL and presents her arguments with points and information rather than attacks on a person's character or perceived intellect.  I also realize that Semi has some argument against some other forum members for what she says is hatful remarks, from an admitted Christian, toward her and about her.  Those are issues that, whatever it deals with, should be handled by the person who has offended her or caused her to feel as such and work that out to enable dialog between them in a constructive way.  Semi, from what I have seen has always been respectful even in disagreement and that is what everyone should achieve to be even in disagreement.  Sadly though there are many that are not and it is those whom I wonder why they are here and ventured to explain why there is some venom behind their post and words. They are, seemingly, permanently biased against certain members on here (Religion/Politics etc) based solely upon what the person believes and not based upon the persons themselves.  

Hi GB,

You tell Dark, "Semi, from what I have seen, has always been respectful even in disagreement -- and that is what everyone should achieve to be, even in disagreement.  Sadly though there are many that are not, and it is those whom I wonder why they are here -- and ventured to explain why there is some venom behind their post and words. 


They are, seemingly, permanently biased against certain members on here (Religion/Politics etc) based solely upon what the person believes and not based upon the persons themselves."

Let me ask you a question.  If a person comes on the Religion Forum teaching a false religion or a cult religion -- should a Christian believer merely look the other way and not refute what that person has written?

If so, how do we explain to God, one day, when He asks about that person who was just beginning to seek God -- and was led away from belief in God -- by a false religion or a cult religion?  How can we explain to God that we did not refute the false teaching which led this soul away from God -- because we wanted to be friend with the false religion or cult religion teacher?

Do you believe that Christians should refute false teachings and cult teachings on public forums such as the Religion Forum?

Are you willing to shine the Light of the Gospel upon such false religion and cult religion teachings?  If yes, then praise God.  If not, why not?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Crusty, I would beg to differ with you on that "major contradiction." The eye for an eye law was given to the Children of Israel as they traveled in the wilderness. They had no jails in which to place criminals...or Ronnie Willis to protect them (yes, that was sarcasm). Don't you think the possibility of such a punishment would deter crime?

 

"Turning the other cheek" doesn't mean we have to be masochists or doormats. We forgive and try to help those who have sinned against us. It doesn't literally mean we have to stand there and let someone hit us again.

______________

It doesn't literally mean that?  

 

I don't want to get into the historical accuracy of Exodus, but there is little evidence for any of it.  Unless of course, the Ark of the Covenant is in Warehouse 13. 

 

 

I think it will be Saturday at the Florence Library.

Bill, does what a person believes & speaks not reflect upon that individuals personality? All we have to go by about someone here (unless we know them personally) is what we read daily on his or her thoughts & beliefs.

 

You write your novels full of your opinion & Bible scriptures. If anyone disagrees with you, or questions you, you call it a “spitting contest” & run away to start another topic. That’s your way of running from the questions you don’t want to answer or don’t know how to answer.


There’s nothing wrong with giving your opinion in what you believe to be a false or cult religion. It’s all in how you go about it. You do not have Spiritual Discernment.

2 Tim 2:24-26 says “And a servant of the Lord must not strive but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,  in humility correcting those who oppose themselves, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,  and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.”

You have a critical judgmental spirit. You do not have love/compassion for anyone on this forum. You beat us over the head with YOUR truth, how YOU see it, not the truth of the Bible. Anyone can quote scripture, it’s all about how a person delivers that scripture.


How are YOU going to explain to God, one day, when He asks you about that person who was just beginning to seek God -- and YOU led him or her away from belief in God with your judgmental attitude? What are you going to say when He asks where the love/compassion was?

What’s wrong with being friends with a cult religion teacher? You can draw more near you with honey than with vinegar.

Until you can perceive yourself correctly & deal with the impurity in your own heart, you will not see clearly what is in the heart of another.

 
You asked GB if he was willing to shine the Light of the Gospel upon false religion & cult religion teachings. It’s not your call to make or to judge what he may or may not do. He doesn’t have to answer to you.

I have seen more kindness out of him than I’ve ever seen out of you.

 

Proverbs 15:1 says “A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger”.

You, Bill, stir up anger, & turn people away from the very gospel you say you want to spread. You must be a very angry man with hidden issues that you should deal with before you try to help others.

 

Originally Posted by gbrk:
 

With regard to someone who over and over demonstrates the opposite of the type person I am talking about, that would be semi.  She calms not to be a Christian and differs with many Christians on here but she is RESPECTFUL and presents her arguments with points and information rather than attacks on a person's character or perceived intellect.  I also realize that Semi has some argument against some other forum members for what she says is hatful remarks, from an admitted Christian, toward her and about her.  Those are issues that, whatever it deals with, should be handled by the person who has offended her or caused her to feel as such and work that out to enable dialog between them in a constructive way.  Semi, from what I have seen has always been respectful even in disagreement and that is what everyone should achieve to be even in disagreement. 

  _________________________________


Thank you for your kind words. I’m truly touched by them but sadly, I’m not always respectful, of which I should be & am ashamed of. I have come strong against Bill Gray in his teachings of OSAS & his judgmental, hateful attitude. That I am not ashamed of because if I am to believe what the Bible says, then Bill is wrong.


The Bible does speak of eternal security but it also speaks of a person being lost again.

The Bible does seem to contradict itself in that respect but I guess it comes down to what a person chooses to believe.


I’ve told Bill several times that if OSAS is true, then I’m just as saved as he is. But it is not true. I’ve given Bill scripture after scripture that teaches against OSAS but he refuses to acknowledge those scriptures or answer. He prefers to call it a spitting contest & runs away from the topic.


I’ve learned much since coming to this forum & hope to continue to learn. Some things I have found myself to be wrong about & others I stand firm on until someone can prove me wrong. When someone sticks their head in the sand, & refuses to learn, that person will not have the capacity to acquire & apply knowledge. I refuse to stick my head in the sand.

 

Bill, does what a person believes & speaks not reflect upon that individuals personality? All we have to go by about someone here (unless we know them personally) is what we read daily on his or her thoughts & beliefs.

 

You write your novels full of your opinion & Bible scriptures. If anyone disagrees with you, or questions you, you call it a “spitting contest” & run away to start another topic. That’s your way of running from the questions you don’t want to answer or don’t know how to answer.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The one person I can point to that has shown kindness to others, conducted himself like a gentleman always, and shown "grace under fire" is skippy-dwight-wooly". It's funny to watch bill foam and spew at sdw and call his religion a cult, and back comes sdw calm, cool and collected to answer once more a question bill ask and to give him a  little thump on the nose. Bill nags and nags at him but can't get a rise. I have a suggestion for a title of one of bill's threads, he can call it- "Get off my back, I'm playing preacher here and I don't have to tell the truth or answer questions"!!

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:        (GBRK response, within Bill's reply is in RED text, final words of GBRK's reply in BLUE afterwards)

Hi GB,

You tell Dark, "Semi, from what I have seen, has always been respectful even in disagreement -- and that is what everyone should achieve to be, even in disagreement.  Sadly though there are many that are not, and it is those whom I wonder why they are here -- and ventured to explain why there is some venom behind their post and words. 


They are, seemingly, permanently biased against certain members on here (Religion/Politics etc) based solely upon what the person believes and not based upon the persons themselves."

 

Bill Gray Says: 

Let me ask you a question.  If a person comes on the Religion Forum teaching a false religion or a cult religion -- should a Christian believer merely look the other way and not refute what that person has written?


 I reply, Who is judge over who is teaching a "false religion"?  Ask a Muslim and they will tell you that ours is a false religion.  Ask one of the atheist and they will say all religion is false.  From the standpoint of the Religion forum no one member has the claim on the true religion from the standpoint of what we can demonstrate to others on the forum.  The only thing that makes Christians special is the thing that makes Christianity special and that is a Living Savior in Jesus Christ but more specifically a Living (existing) God ever present and active via His Holy Spirit.  It is God's Holy Spirit that testifies and certifies Christianity as true, not you and not me or any other human being.   Therefore determination of True religion is God's to make and judgment upon any false religion is also God's to make.  Any human attempt to do so only creates strife and dissension.   If I tell Skippy, as you have, that the Mormon religion is a cult or if I tell a Muslim that they are serving the wrong God and mediator then I stir up anger and resentment within them because I am but another created human no better than they are telling them that they are wrong and I am right.  I am therefore telling another human I am better than they are with nothing to back that up so I am creating strife and creating a wedge that is being driven between me and them.  The ONLY way a person will know if their religion is false or if their belief is not founded in truth is for GOD to tell them, not me.  God's Holy Spirit is fully able and capable in explaining to another person that their belief is wrong in a way that is convincing to them.  As I see it, my responsibility, as a Christian, is to be a willing vessel or tool to be used of and by God in whichever way HE desires.  I will, as led share my faith, if ask the basis of my belief, and defend my beliefs by sharing them but I allow God's Holy Spirit to work as He will.   

 


 

 Bill Gray then says:

If so, how do we explain to God, one day, when He asks about that person who was just beginning to seek God -- and was led away from belief in God -- by a false religion or a cult religion?  How can we explain to God that we did not refute the false teaching which led this soul away from God -- because we wanted to be friend with the false religion or cult religion teacher?

 


I reply, Even what you type to me is a condemning and judgmental statement disguised as a question.  You are assuming that because I do not do as you that God will somehow find disfavor with me and that I then must give account to God for it was my method or my (not doing what you do) attitude that caused another to not find God.  


Bill I cannot do anything of myself.  It is not my place to Judge another person, it is not my place to prove to another person that their belief is false.  It is GOD's place via His Holy Spirit to reveal unto His people their inadequacies and needs.  It is the Holy Spirit's Conviction that reveals a Spiritual Need within the lives/souls of a lost (unsaved) person their Spiritual state.  It is God's Holy Spirit that deals with man not me, or you.  It is our responsibility to be open and yield to God's Holy Spirit and respond as directed but it is God's domain to Judge and He has an appointed time for that.  You, or I, as a human confronting another human are no better than they are.  When you claim to be the sole correct interpreter of Scripture or the only one who is right you create friction and created a dividing wall between you and the other person that prevents dialog with them but allows Satan an opportunity to harden their hearts against the Gospel and what God would have for them.  So let me turn your question around.  What would you (Bill) say to God when He ask why did you, as a human, assume to that that which is my domain?  Why did you create friction and anger when there should have been understanding and love and allow ME (God) by my Holy Spirit the opportunity to work unimpeded in this lost person's life?  Why did by your fleshly actions of Judging your fellow human create a wedge between my Holy Spirit whereby I could not work through you as I wanted to?


When you refute the false teaching, as you put it, then you have judged another.  God does want us to refute false teachings within our Church and within our body in order to prevent corruption of God's Word but when you go on an Evangelical mission you present the word of God accurately and allow God's Holy Spirit to use it to divide between body and spirit so as to convince the other person that what we speak, and teach, is real and factual.  There are areas that we do not compromise on however if we are living a Christian life as the Scripture tells us to then we should be living in response to how God's Holy Spirit leads us and tells us.  Christ own harshest words were reserved for those who were religious so a false or corrupt gospel will not be allowed but it is God that is Judge and not us, unless somehow God, through the Holy Spirit, has given you this power and ministry but if that is the case there should be defining signs and confirming signs that you have that mission and assignment from God.  If you are not assigned to be our Judge then why do you persist and continue to act as if you are?

 


 

Bill Gray Continues:

Do you believe that Christians should refute false teachings and cult teachings on public forums such as the Religion Forum?

 



I reply, So just what is a false teaching Bill?  Is it something that goes against Scripture?  Who is the authority and judge that Scripture is correct for there are many diverse people on here that claim authority of Scripture yet differ on opinions?  I suggest that is because we are all human and live in the flesh with inadequacies.   I suggest that the Holy Spirit of God is our only judge of what is true and false and this same Holy Spirit will reveal unto those He wishes to, what is true and what is false.  We, you and I, both professing Christians, have differed and debated with each other regarding the timing of the Rapture.  We both cannot be right as we both differ so who determines who is right and who is wrong?  Who interpreted scripture correctly and who didn't?  When YOU make that determination, yourself, you err as only God's Holy Spirit will ultimately reveal the Truth to those who listen unto Him.


What we should do is, only as prompted by God's Holy Spirit defend our beliefs by putting forth scripture that God lays on our minds to present.  Then allow God to work and not assume God's ministry for Him.  Unless there is some special power you have, given by God, and assigned by His Spirit to do so you should be a vessel for God's Spirit to minister unto others through.  If you are not assigned or gifted to judge others than do not do it for when you do you created a wedge which Satan can use to isolate that person from God's ministry and the Word.

 


 

Are you willing to shine the Light of the Gospel upon such false religion and cult religion teachings?  If yes, then praise God.  If not, why not?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

 


 


 


To which I conclude:

Bill,   What I have tried to say above is as you put it, it is the LIGHT OF THE GOSPEL upon false religions, cult religions, and teachings.  It is NOT the Light of Bill or the Light of GBRK.  Unto others it is our religion or our belief that is false and cultish.  The only difference we have going for us is that our beliefs and Christianity is confirmed by God through and in His Holy Spirit.  You cannot by anything you do, or I by anything I do, get inside a person and minister to their inner spirit and mind but God's Holy Spirit can and does.  What we, being human, can do is by our own human judgment or prejudgment of another individual created a wedge which Satan will and can use to harden the person's heart so that they will not listen unto God.  They become offended and upset that another human, just as flawed as them, claims authority or superiority over them and that brings up a wall of resentment and controversy.   The Light of the Gospel shines on it's own and we are not to do anything to get in it's way.  We can present our beliefs, that which we know to be, from Scripture, but that is, I believe, the limit of our mission as a Christian.  God has specific missions for specific people and unto them He will reveal that.  God's Holy Spirit convicts people of their needs and of their sins and that is Scriptural.    What is not Scriptural is for you, or I, to assume that ministry of God and attempt to judge another person based upon our own beliefs and feelings.  


The answer I will give to God will be that I pray that I have presented my body, mind, abilities, talents, and soul to you as a vessel for you to use in a way that you are pleased with.  I would say to God that I have no conception or understanding of why I would deserve such grace as is offered unto me for I surely do not deserve it by anything I have done.  I would say that I hope that, in my fleshly body and inadequacy, that I never got in the way of your ministry and never hindered Your Holy Spirit due to my own human fallacies.  

Hi GB,

 

Just to cut the waltz down to a two step -- what do you consider to be a false religion?  Are world religions, i.e., Islam, Buddhism, etc., false religions?

 

Just what do you consider cult religions?  Are Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., cult religions?

 

Do you believe that New Age religions are compatible with the Christian faith?

 

Do you believe that God would have you refute false and cult religions?  Or, do you believe that it is okay to allow new Christians, babes in Christ -- and new seekers -- to be led astray by such false and cult teachings? 

 

Could you be comfortable knowing that someone you might have influenced toward belief in God -- instead went into a false or cult religion -- because you did not want to offend anyone by sharing the true Gospel with them?

 

These are important questions for all believers -- for they tell if we are willing to Go, Make Disciples, Baptize Them, Teach Them (Matthew 28:19-20).  They tell is we are willing to do as Jesus Christ instructs us and "be His witnesses" in all the world (Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15).  Are you willing? 

 

How do you answer these questions -- not just to impress other Religion Forum members -- but, as though you are answering these questions directly to God?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill, here is the two step as you put it.  First step is you are hyper judgmental of people whether they are professed Christians or Atheist.   Step two;  What you perceive as defending against false gospels is deaf preaching your own gospel.  You have your set of beliefs and everyone else without exception that are wrong and therefore advancing a false religion.   You care not to hear what they say, what they ask, but just advancing your own interpretation of how you see things.

 

I will not entertain you with attempts to bring me into your rut by being in condemnation of others but I will answer your questions with a statement.   I believe there to be ONE TRUE and real God that is not only living but has no beginning and will have no end.  Is Eternal both before and after.  I believe This only true God determined a Judgment upon mankind according to mankind's actions and sins but also predetermined a way to escape the penalty of that Judgment in Christ Jesus who was God in human flesh but not conceived in the way other humans are and were.  I also believe that God's Holy Spirit is determined to be the way God relates and ministers unto mankind and is given upon mankind's decision to accept that sacrifice of Christ dying on the Cross shedding His Blood.  

 

I have chose to be a Christian because of a very personal, unique, and miraculous conviction by God's Holy Spirit confirming, at least to me, that God was God and legitimate.  

 

If you want to pronounce, God's, judgment on other religions and people and you feel this advances the cause of Christ then have at it.  

 

Third step:  You are totally inflexible when it comes to dialogs with people here.  We, Christians, are physical representatives of Christ and you really need to ask yourself what picture of Christ are you presenting?   One that seeks to address the Spiritual needs that all of us have or a harsh condemning judgmental figure that seeks not to involve people but dominate them.  Your approach, on this forum, is an Old Testament approach or Old Covenant approach where there is no personal relationship with God but God is some uncaring Judge that seeks vengeance upon those whom seek to find Him.  

 

If you feel and truly believe you are right and present Christ in the way Christ would want then show me, demonstrate to me, from Scripture anywhere that Christ interacted with those who were not His apostles or those who Believed in Him, in the way you are doing on this forum?   Show me where Christ did, as you say we should do, with respect to the lost world whether they are atheist, non-believers, or Muslims?  Once you show me that then we can talk about me answering your questions of your last post.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
Post

×
×
×
×