"Once Saved, Always Saved" -- Really?

No fred, he didn't make anything. I don't believe in a god so I am not bound like you to show respect or gratitude to an idea of a god, or to respect someone only because they claim a belief in that god.  

Nope, Once saved always saved is contrary to the Gospel- it makes the people who believe it believe they are protected from sin, but, we all have free will. So the "saved" is free to sin just as much as the next guy. 

This is an age-old debate- I highly doubt that you will convince anyone to "switch camps". I am a Christian, solid in my beliefs. However I cannot tell you that tomorrow I may not sin gravely, and fall out of a state of grace. 

It might happen. Probably not, because I have a 12 hour shift, lol, but you never know. 

In my opinion, OSAS is just another "feel good" theology that lets people think they are better than others. 

Being Catholic, I can't tell you how many people have said "oooh,  you're Catholic- are you saved?" 
To which my reply is, and always will be this:
"I have been saved, I am being saved, and, God willing, will be saved when I depart this life". 

hey, If it makes you feel better to believe that you can't fall from Christ's friendship, good on ya. But we all know that even His disciples betrayed Him. Something tells me that todays churches probably can't be more convincing than Jesus Himself...

But think twice before declaring to the world that "OSAS" is true- you just might lead someone into a false sense of security. 

In my opinion, it is clearly smarter to err on the side of caution. Salvation and a relationship with God is something that has to be cultivated and nurtured: It's not just a "poof" one time deal. 

Food for thought-

Cheers, V

PS Fred, I agree with you that Salvation is a "gift"- what I do not agree with is that it is a "one time deal". 

Just clarifying.... 

Welcome Back Vee,  glad to know you are alright and doing fine.  Naturally you realize there are believers all over the spectrum with respect to salvation and losing or retaining it, as you alluded to, with beliefs about salvation and Eternal Security.  No trap or trick question, intended here, but as someone who does believe differently I am curious, from your perspective or the perspective of your Church;

At what point does one lose their salvation?   In other words how does one know they reach that point?  Up to what point can one sin and still retain salvation and at what point or line does one cross where you lose your salvation?

I have to admit I'm not that familiar with the Catholic Church's position on that doctrine however I do think I remember at least two distinctions of sin from my High School days and those being Mortal and Venial Sins.  Anyway I hope that's not too long of a request I'm just trying to better understand different people's/Churches doctrinal teachings regarding Salvation.   I also realize I could look it up on the web, and may cheat and do just that before you answer, but thought you might could put it more concisely.

If you would rather not get too deeply involved in it or want to ease your way back into the forum I'll understand if you prefer to delay answering but thanks either way.

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OSAS has been done many times and Billie knows it's not Biblical.

What Bible verses support it?

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GBRK, 

I believe that our salvation is not "complete" until we leave this earth. Every second, every action before that time counts. 

I believe that we can turn away from God. We could say our Salvation prayer, or whatever it is called (with all due respect, please- i just don't know it" and accept Jesus as our Saviour. But then we could, years down the road, reject Him. We could fall from grace- in sin, in our hearts, in our compassion, etc.

My best example is this; Like He says "Depart from me, I never knew you", to people who had been sharing His Word, and devoted their lives to Him. 

I consider that above quote to be evidence that God does in fact refuse salvation to a presumed Christian. 

Hope that answers your question.  

From reading past posts (debates between You & Bill), our opinions on the subject are a little different but I don't believe OSAS either. I do not believe that God would ever take away our gift of salvation but I do believe that we can still reject God and our salvation.

Although I do not think of being saved as a license to sin, I also believe that with each passing sin (major or minor (if there is such a thing)) that dying between the batch of sins and confessing the sins will not get me denied at Heaven's Gate.

Bill Gray's fatally-flawed theology:

Bill says, above: 

"We see in this Scripture passage that salvation is a "free gift" from God.  We also see that no one can WORK for this gift.  Since we cannot WORK for the gift -- there obviously are no "strings and conditions" -- for those would constitute WORKs."

Yet Bill believes that a person must "take Jesus as his Savior" in order to be saved.  This means that a person who does not "take Jesus as his Savior" will be lost. It is therefore axiomatic and indis****ble that "take(ing] Jesus as one's personal savior" is a condition of salvation, in Bill's theology.  Thus, according to Bill's "logic," "take[ing] Jesus as one's personal Savior," being a condition of salvation, is a "WORK."

Bill confuses meritorious works of man with the salvific work of God.  Baptism, according to Bill, is a "work" and is thus not essential to the remission of sins and salvation.  The error of that interpretation is that baptism is NOT a meritorious work of man, earning salvation; it is a work of God, in that it is the place and event He appoints where the lost sinner comes into contact with the redeeming death and blood of Jesus Christ.  That concept is clearly and powerfully taught in Romans 6:1-11.

The first sinners to whom the gospel was preached, in Acts chapter 2, clearly understood that they were lost, the apostle Peter having powerfully indicted them for the death of Jesus Christ.   In anguish of spirit, they asked, "Man and brethren, what shall we do?"  Did that inspired apostle tell them to "take Jesus as your Savior" or to "say the sinner's prayer"?  No way.  He told them to "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins." Why will not Bill and the host of evangelical preachers and teachers with whom he identifies, tell lost sinners the same thing that Peter told those lost sinners long ago?

Note also that these sinners were told to "REPENT." Had they not repented, would they have been saved? Clearly not.  Thus, repentance constitutes another condition.

No, Bill, salvation is not unconditional in the manner in which you erroneously construe it.  There clearly are conditions, as I have clearly shown above, and these conditions are not meritorious works earning salvation, but they are essential!

We are indeed saved by the grace of God, but that grace is not unconditional; otherwise no one would be required to do anything in order to be saved.  That concept is called "universalism," Bill. Surely you do not wish to throw in with that notion!