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Crash.Override posted:

funny how conservatives want to say 'you should give him a chance.'... yep, just like you people gave obama a chance. conservatives fought tooth and nail to stop obama from doing ANYTHING. now, they want cooperation from the democrats to move forward. just wow. that shoulda been a priority for the last 8 years. conservatives had 8 years of trying to repeal the ACA and still don't have a viable replacement for it. unprepared, uninformed, unable to see the consequences of their action for the last 8 years. republicans, the party of stupid and hypocrisy, are living up to their title.

Speaking strictly for myself, I accepted Obama as my President and hoped, for the Nation's sake, that he would make a good President.  As you said though, with respect to me, I definitely was against, in every way, the ACA (Obamacare/Democratic (imposed) Healthcare) because even to a layman it should have appeared as it was which is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.  The founders never meant for the Federal Government to be that involved in the citizen's affairs. 

Please don't cite Chief Justice Robert's decision to allow it to continue because his decision was contoured in many legal ways in order to allow it to be called constitutional and he only did so and got it claimed okay by saying it was a TAX which it wasn't.  The Judge says the Federal Government is responsible for taxes and taxing and he claimed the ACA was a Tax upon the American people.   It never was developed to be so, never claimed to be so, never drafted to be so nor in its content was it ever termed a tax but yet the Chief Judge passed it as a tax saying the Government could do that as a tax so it was allowed to continue. 

Chief Justice Robert's failed America and was a patsy and a disgrace in his duty as a Chief Justice and it will haunt him for his entire career.

My problem with what the Republicans are tempting to do is not see this as unconstitutional and essentially try and rewrite what the democrats did but still putting the federal government over something that the founders never would have envisioned or allowed.  Then it most likely could be argued, by some, that the Postal Service would be or should be unconstitutional to the most strictest of readers.

gbrk posted:

One last question for those who are in favor of the ACA and feel it was a good thing if not a great thing?

If so good and great WHY did Congress, The President and the lawmakers exempt themselves from having to abide by it and being under it?

 

i'm guessing for the same reasons the republicans have chosen to exempt themselves from having to abide by it and being under 'trumpcare'. they have written their own laws concerning their insurance.

Last edited by Crash.Override
Stanky posted:

Paying or trading for land is capitalism. The goobermint taking land by fiat is statism. People who thought like modern liberals existed then as now, but I doubt they prospered by their actions. Folks like that tend to be too lazy to prosper, so I doubt they held title to the land for very long.

you mean similar to what trump is trying to do? as in taking people's land to 'build a wall'? 

they party of hypocrisy just can't help themselves.

Crash.Override posted:
Stanky posted:

Paying or trading for land is capitalism. The goobermint taking land by fiat is statism. People who thought like modern liberals existed then as now, but I doubt they prospered by their actions. Folks like that tend to be too lazy to prosper, so I doubt they held title to the land for very long.

you mean similar to what trump is trying to do? as in taking people's land to 'build a wall'? 

they party of hypocrisy just can't help themselves.

If it pertains to the public good, sometimes it is necessary but the taking must be as small as possible and it must be paid for at market rates. What the first President of the Democratic party did with the Indian Removal Act was theft.

The Indian Removal Act was passed by Congress on May 28, 1830, during the presidency of Andrew Jackson, who signed it into law two days later. The law authorized the president to negotiate with southernIndian tribes for their removal to federal territory west of the Mississippi River in exchange for their ancestral homelands.[1][

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._States_Constitution

Crash.Override posted:
gbrk posted:

One last question for those who are in favor of the ACA and feel it was a good thing if not a great thing?

If so good and great WHY did Congress, The President and the lawmakers exempt themselves from having to abide by it and being under it?

 

i'm guessing for the same reasons the republicans have chosen to exempt themselves from having to abide by it and being under 'trumpcare'. they have written their own laws concerning their insurance.

If, when it all washes out, the Republicans do the same as the Democrats then I shall be just as outraged and vocally against what is done by them as well.  Frankly I believe it never should have been messed with at the federal level at all and the Republicans should tread lightly when they try and undo what was done not to come up with something just as unconstitutional.   The Free Market should be the engine to get to where we need to go however there is some things that Government can do to help. 

  • Government can assist in allowing across state competition between companies and create various tax incentives for Insurance companies to write off coverages and care to the most needful and those with gross pre-existing conditions that tend to affect a companies bottom line more than others. 
  • Create a system whereby service providers are required to post prices of their procedures and care so that customers or people can compare prices of certain test from one provider to the next and then choose.   In other words put competition back into the medical field. 

Other things can be done by the States and it is ultimately the States  that should have control over the medical healthcare going on in their locations and State.  The federal Government is there to do what States, individually, cannot do such as provide for the Defense of the nation, establish treaties with other foreign interest and nations.  Do that which the Constitution provides for Federal Government to do.  Sadly, and potentially devastating to our economy and democracy more and more Democrats want to see, and seek, to establish Judges in an advocacy or legislative type position where by they legislate from the bench rather than using the Constitution and interpreting law.  It is the Legislative branch (Congress) that is to establish legislation, create it, and address it, along with the President (Executive branch) to approve it into Law.  The Judges and Judicial branch then is to consider each case brought before them to see if that case or law is abiding by the Constitution and not violating any citizens rights as provided for in the Constitution.  

In the most recent cases, before the 9th court the judges are making rulings against Trump's executive order based not on it's content or what it says or if it abides by  established laws but rather are making rulings (stated by them as I understand it) based upon what Donald Trump said during some campaign speeches.  They are not considering the wording or the content of the order but are using their own, greatly biased, assumptions and totally ignoring the Constitution all together.   In my opinion EACH JUDGE that does this should be impeached and disbarred.  

Now back to Healthcare.  We will see if the Republicans exempt themselves and if so I hope you point it out loudly and boldly for if so it's wrong.  I though believe that they will not do that but rather that they will abide by what they make average Americans abide by.   If there are inequalities between various states or peoples then that should be addressed but the Government shouldn't be in the Healthcare business or insurance business.  This should be turned over to the States as for regulation and the free market for competition among carriers.  That, though, is my own opinion.

Crash.Override posted:
Stanky posted:

Paying or trading for land is capitalism. The goobermint taking land by fiat is statism. People who thought like modern liberals existed then as now, but I doubt they prospered by their actions. Folks like that tend to be too lazy to prosper, so I doubt they held title to the land for very long.

you mean similar to what trump is trying to do? as in taking people's land to 'build a wall'? 

they party of hypocrisy just can't help themselves.

No one expects you or those similar to understand, but you will
stand down and out of the way or Progress will run you over..
Stay on the liberal porch with your thumb.
giftedamateur posted:

How 'bout that stock market. 

The stock market is still a bit inflated because the market has strong expectations of the new administration that might not come to pass because of some of the fringe elements of the Republican party and all of globalist party (Dems). The market has long been overvalued during the stagnant Ol'bama era because of monetary policy.

Here's some of my detestables of democrat favorite sons who 
are still up to the cowardly way they do everything.

-------------

Danish police are looking for a gang who beat up a young couple over a pizza slice with ham. The woman now risks permanent damage to her hearing after being punched in the head.

Saturday night a young couple were attacked by up to five people "of other ethnic origin" in Silkeborg, reports BT.

The attack took place outside a pizza restaurant in Silkeborg, where a 24-year-old woman and her boyfriend sat while eating a pizza.

The perpetrator took one of her pieces of pizza and threw it on the ground, which developed into a scuffle, and soon after the perpetrator got help from a group of friends who ganged up on the couple and attacked them with several punches and kicks.

Midtjyllands Avis writes that the young couple were asked if there was pork on their pizza, which they answered yes to. And it was apparently what triggered the brawl.

"Suddenly a young man of other ethnic origin rushed towards the young woman and hit her in the head, so that she has subsequently lost the hearing on one ear. Right now we do not know whether it is a permanent hearing damage! He then takes a stranglehold on her and shouting that she sure as hell should not eat pork on her pizza," writes the mother of the young man in a post on Facebook that the newspaper has seen.

Mid and West Jutland Police describe the main offender as about 175 cm high, ethnic origin other than Danish, and wearing dark clothing. Police are also looking for four other persons who participated in the attack. So basically they are looking for a Muslim gang.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Teenage migrant 'raped and strangled 90-year-old German woman as she left church after he demanded money from her and she said she didn't have any' 

A 90-year-old woman was dragged into a courtyard and violently raped by a teenager after he asked for money in a church, a court has heard.

The attacker then stole the key to her home and wrote down her address.

A Spanish-Moroccan migrant, aged 19, is accused of rape, bodily harm and theft following the attack on October 2 in Dusseldorf.

Prosecutors claim he confronted her in St Lambertus Church and shouted 'money, money!' at her.

When the elderly woman said she did not have any money to give him, he dragged her outside and carried out the horrific attack before strangling her and pulling her hair.

He also stole the key to her home, but there is no evidence that he later broke in.

Police say they traced the man through DNA evidence, as a sample was on record following a robbery in May last year,RP reports.

He could face 15 years behind bars if convicted.

The woman needed hospital treatment following the horror attack. 

 

giftedamateur posted:

How 'bout that stock market. 

The Stock Market has gone wild with Trump expectations especially of the reduction of the Tax Rate for corporations and potential money coming back into America account of the reduction in Taxes but those are just promises and expectations.   Republicans have now, seemingly, tied the tax reductions to the repeal and replacement of Democratic Healthcare/Obamacare and with the apparent troubles among the Republicans at reaching an agreement the Stock Market today is reacting in a negative way.   

I fear if the Republicans cannot get a bill out of the house then the market's reaction will be very severe so the Republicans that have for years cried that they need total control have a challenge before them.  The thought is that they could save the money, for the tax cut, from Obamacare and without repeal of Obamacare then there would not be the money for the tax cut.  Either way this is in the hands of the Republicans in the House. 

I fear though that if the promised Tax Cuts are postponed, delayed, or rejected then the Stock Market will surely drop as fast as it has risen.  As for the Senate that is yet another challenge for the Democrats will surely, in mass, reject anything that is suggested and they will vote in total to reject anything that the Republicans put up.  Thus it will be up to the Republicans to decide whether to enact the nuclear option that was first done by Harry Reid.  I personally hope they can get their act together because if one thing the Democrats have done is to prove that with a minority they can do much more with their minority than the Republicans could do when they were in the minority.   The hypocrisy of it all though is that the Democrats, when in the majority, were always crying that all the Republicans were was blocking progress and standing in the way and when they do the same thing then it's in vogue and the media is all for it.  So it's negative when the Republicans do it but positive when the Democrats do the exact same thing. 

I do believe that there are good ideas on both sides but I fear that there is such division and anger that there is no way that either side will listen or get along with the other.

GBRK  posted: 

do believe that there are good ideas on both sides but I fear that there is such division and anger that there is no way that either side will listen or get along with the other.

That will always be the case until liberals can put the future of
this country and those that follow us and them that follow those,
first and foremost. 

 

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