Open Question # 2

Hi Vic,

You ask, "Is John Chapter 6 the Preparatory discussion of the promise from Jesus of the Eucharist?"

And, the answer is a resounding NO!

Then, you quote Matthew 26:26-27 -- but, you stop short.  Why did you not include verses 28 and 29, where Jesus tells His apostles, "I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

Was Jesus drinking His own blood -- or was He speaking symbolically?  The answer to that is simple; He was speaking symbolically.  And, that is why you conveniently overlooked those two following verses.

Matthew 26:26-29 "While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body.'  (27) And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, 'Drink from it, all of you; (28) for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.  (29) But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom.' "

You did the same thing with Mark 14:

Mark 14:22-25, "While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, 'Take it; this is My body.'  (23) And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.  (24) And He said to them, 'This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.  (25) Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.' "

Drink His own blood?

And, you totally ignored Luke 22 and Luke is considered the best historian among all His disciples:

Luke 22:14-16, "When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. (15) And He said to them, 'I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; (16) for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.'  

Eat His own body, His own flesh?  Really?

Luke 22:17-19, "And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, 'Take this and share it among yourselves; (18) for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.' "

Drink His own blood?  Really?

Luke 22:19, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.' "

Oh, now I see!  We are to eat the bread and drink the wine in remembrance of Him.  That makes sense.

But, I will give you credit.  You did include 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 even though Paul reminds us twice that Jesus told us to take Communion, to take the elements, in remembrance of Him until He comes again.

1 Corinthians 11:23-26, "For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; (24) and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, 'This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.'  (25) In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.'  (26) For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes."

You conclude by asking, "Is Jesus lying about the creation of the Sacrament of the Eucharist?"

No, but, then --  in those Scripture passages, Jesus is not speaking of the same thing the Roman Catholic church pushes.  Jesus is speaking of eating the unleavened bread and drinking the wine or juice in remembrance of Him.  And, the Roman Catholic church wants us to believe they are eating the actual flesh and drinking the actual blood of Jesus Christ.

Let's take a practical look at that.  From 33 AD until now, how many folks do you think have eaten the Lord's Supper?  Maybe about 10 billion, give or take a few?  Now assume that each of us had one bite of His flesh and drank one small cup of His blood; then multiply that by about 10 billion.  Wow!  The human body of Jesus Christ would have to be tall enough to reach from earth to the moon.  Not sure, but, I would guess that Jesus in His human body was about 5'8" or so.

But, for each of us to weekly take a bite of His flesh and drink a cup of His blood -- He would need to be about 238,900 miles tall, the distance from earth to the moon.

My Friend, can you see how ridiculous that is -- and how gullible one has to be to believe it?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Mr. Gray,

I thought you said the Bible was the literal word of God? Why NOW are these particular pieces of Scripture symbolic?

This is one of the things I absolutely hate about Christianity. They pick and choose what is literal and what is symbolic to fit their beliefs. 

Honest question. Are Jesus' words so hard to believe?

Psa 78:2  I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Mat 13:34  All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 

Mat_13:35  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. 

Hi GD,

You tell me, "Mr. Gray,  I thought you said the Bible was the literal word of God?  Why NOW are these particular pieces of Scripture symbolic?   This is one of the things I absolutely hate about Christianity.  They pick and choose what is literal and what is symbolic to fit their beliefs."

Well, my Friend, if you were a Christian believer, which you have said you are not -- and if you knew anything about the Bible, which you obviously do not -- for you can only copy/paste the New Age Urantia Book and the L. Ray Smith cult writings to create a post -- then you would know why we say the Bible is the Holy Spirit INSPIRED, Holy Spirit INERRANT, Holy Spirit LITERAL Written Word of God.  But, since you deny the true God and His Written Word -- how can you know these things?

So, let me give you several articles to read which will explain what I have written a hundred times before on the forums about the literal interpretation of the Bible:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We interpret the Bible literally, but this this does not mean we ignore symbols and metaphorical language.  God’s written communication to the world is a richly textured literary masterpiece and makes full use of the tools of language, including symbolism, metaphor, simile, and motif.

So, GD, as I have written many times, when studying the Bible for an understanding of God's Word -- first we read the passage literally.  If that fits, that is the interpretation.   If the literal interpretation does not fit -- then, we look for a symbolic or metaphorical interpretation.   But, most of the time, a literal interpretation WILL fit.

I pray this has helped you to better understand how to study the Bible for yourself -- instead of trying to make it fit your New Age Urantia Book or your L. Ray Smith cult religion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Only brainwashed cultists and shyster religious leaders claim to take the Bible literally.  Then of course, they misinterpret it, misconstrue it, and just ignore it as they see fit. 

This is just bible talk Best, doesn't mean a thing when you can make a deal
with satan for a free ticket to heaven, just imagine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Addendum:

John 6: 47

47  Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

( This is the favorite OSAS misconception, It's the only verse billie will post

because it has nothing to do with OSAS, which is non Biblical anyway.)

( What the liar is trying to hide )

John 6: 47-61

47  Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

48  I am the bread of life.

49  Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;

50  this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.

51  I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever;   and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

52  The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"

53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

54 Whoever eats ¹⁹ my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."59

59  These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

60 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?"

61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this  shock you?  

( To read the complete chapter gives you a better understanding ) 

ONCE MORE:

Hi Vic,

You ask, "Is John Chapter 6 the Preparatory discussion of the promise from Jesus of the Eucharist?"

And, the answer is a resounding NO!

Then, you quote Matthew 26:26-27 -- but, you stop short.  Why did you not include verses 28 and 29, where Jesus tells His apostles, "I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

Was Jesus drinking His own blood -- or was He speaking symbolically?  The answer to that is simple; He was speaking symbolically.  And, that is why you conveniently overlooked those two following verses.

Matthew 26:26-29 "While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body.'  (27) And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, 'Drink from it, all of you; (28) for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.  (29) But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom.' "

You did the same thing with Mark 14:

Mark 14:22-25, "While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, 'Take it; this is My body.'  (23) And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it.  (24) And He said to them, 'This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.  (25) Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.' "

Drink His own blood?

And, you totally ignored Luke 22 and Luke is considered the best historian among all His disciples:

Luke 22:14-16, "When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. (15) And He said to them, 'I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; (16) for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.'  

Eat His own body, His own flesh?  Really?

Luke 22:17-19, "And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, 'Take this and share it among yourselves; (18) for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.' "

Drink His own blood?  Really?

Luke 22:19, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.' "

Oh, now I see!  We are to eat the bread and drink the wine in remembrance of Him.  That makes sense.

But, I will give you credit.  You did include 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 even though Paul reminds us twice that Jesus told us to take Communion, to take the elements, in remembrance of Him until He comes again.

1 Corinthians 11:23-26, "For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; (24) and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, 'This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.'  (25) In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.'  (26) For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes."

You conclude by asking, "Is Jesus lying about the creation of the Sacrament of the Eucharist?"

No, but, then --  in those Scripture passages, Jesus is not speaking of the same thing the Roman Catholic church pushes.  Jesus is speaking of eating the unleavened bread and drinking the wine or juice in remembrance of Him.  And, the Roman Catholic church wants us to believe they are eating the actual flesh and drinking the actual blood of Jesus Christ.

Let's take a practical look at that.  From 33 AD until now, how many folks do you think have eaten the Lord's Supper?  Maybe about 10 billion, give or take a few?  Now assume that each of us had one bite of His flesh and drank one small cup of His blood; then multiply that by about 10 billion.  Wow!  The human body of Jesus Christ would have to be tall enough to reach from earth to the moon.  Not sure, but, I would guess that Jesus in His human body was about 5'8" or so.

But, for each of us to weekly take a bite of His flesh and drink a cup of His blood -- He would need to be about 238,900 miles tall, the distance from earth to the moon.

My Friend, can you see how ridiculous that is -- and how gullible one has to be to believe it?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Looks like the Troll has been here again...........