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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

Is that weather report graphic your admission that you CANNOT answer the questions in my post just above it?

If so, I am not surprised. But, I am disappointed -- for you made some very unBiblical statements. That is why I asked you:

Where is YOUR Scriptural proof of "we are our own salvation" and "It's the children that will or won't let anyone snatch themselves. It's the individual who decides"?

 

I've already told you your Free Will is your choice to be saved or not, do you

believe you have a free will? Do you believe by staying in a state of grace

you will be saved. Do you believe if you die in a state of serious sin

you can lose your salvation? Do you believe Puff the magic Ticket will get

you into Heaven no matter what you do? Do you believe all you need to do

is say "Lord Lord."

 

This is self explainatory for a person and their salvation.

 

billie you say

 

Yet, we read in Scripture:

John 10:27-29,

[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither

shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is

able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

This doesn't say that we cannot leave God’s hand voluntarily ourselves

through loss of faith or through serious sins. We have a free will and can

choose our destiny.

If we cooperate with the graces God gives us, and avoid the temptations

of this world, no one keep us from heaven.

 

2 Corinthians 12:9:

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is

made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my

infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

After being justified, we can either stay in God’s graces or lose them

through sin or disbelief. We only have to look back at Chapter 6 of John’s

Gospel to see desciples of Jesus leaving him because they rejected his

teaching on the Eucharist:

 

billie you say:

 

Ephesians 1:13 / 4:30

billie you are sealed alright, but it's talking about sealed in Baptism

 

You could have also used 2 Cor 1: 21-22

21  But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed

us is God

22 he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as

a first installment. Baptism

 

And you also say Rom 8:29-30

Paul is saying the Father from before the beginning had taken much

thought and planning for our salvation.

 

And you again billie...Jude 1:24-25,

Paul is telling us God can keep us from falling and stumbling.

But this isn't a promise. God doesn't promise but he is able to help

with Graces.

 

 

Original Post

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Invicculeous, why do you beat around the bush with all these forum members that are not Catholic and white. Tell them their only outcome is hell.  You seem to always pick on Bill but the underlying truth is that within your model you condemn all  non-Catholics as you do Bill. You are the worse example of a Catholic I’ve ever seen. Well actually there is another Catholic I know who has the filthy mouth of the century and is a leader in a local church. He makes the point in any conversation to use as many GD’s and other nasty expletives in the presence of non-Catholics he can muster. He leaves the impression that he wants to appear as an evil man. What are your initials? You must be him.

Hi Quail,

 

Last night I watched the Jay Leno Show, always love his Jay Walking segments.  Last night he went to the street with photos of well known people -- and asked folks on the street to name the person.

 

He showed a photo of Pope Francis to a lady -- and she had no idea who it was.  When Jay finally told her it was the Pope, she said, "I am Catholic.  I should have known that."

 

Then Jay asked her to name this Pope -- and she said, "Pope Benedict?"

 

Yes, sir, that is the kind of person who will readily tell us, "I was born Catholic -- and I will die Catholic!"

 

Okay!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

Is that weather report graphic your admission that you CANNOT answer the questions in my post just above it?

If so, I am not surprised. But, I am disappointed -- for you made some very unBiblical statements. That is why I asked you:

Where is YOUR Scriptural proof of "we are our own salvation" and "It's the children that will or won't let anyone snatch themselves. It's the individual who decides"?

 

I've already told you your Free Will is your choice to be saved or not, do you

believe you have a free will? Do you believe by staying in a state of grace

you will be saved. Do you believe if you die in a state of serious sin

you can lose your salvation? Do you believe Puff the magic Ticket will get

you into Heaven no matter what you do? Do you believe all you need to do

is say "Lord Lord."

 

This is self explainatory for a person and their salvation.

 

billie you say

 

Yet, we read in Scripture:

John 10:27-29,

[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither

shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is

able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

This doesn't say that we cannot leave God’s hand voluntarily ourselves

through loss of faith or through serious sins. We have a free will and can

choose our destiny.

If we cooperate with the graces God gives us, and avoid the temptations

of this world, no one keep us from heaven.

 

2 Corinthians 12:9:

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is

made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my

infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

After being justified, we can either stay in God’s graces or lose them

through sin or disbelief. We only have to look back at Chapter 6 of John’s

Gospel to see desciples of Jesus leaving him because they rejected his

teaching on the Eucharist:

 

billie you say:

 

Ephesians 1:13 / 4:30

billie you are sealed alright, but it's talking about sealed in Baptism

 

You could have also used 2 Cor 1: 21-22

21  But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed

us is God

22 he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as

a first installment. Baptism

 

And you also say Rom 8:29-30

Paul is saying the Father from before the beginning had taken much

thought and planning for our salvation.

 

And you again billie...Jude 1:24-25,

Paul is telling us God can keep us from falling and stumbling.

But this isn't a promise. God doesn't promise but he is able to help

with Graces.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

billie, I'm waiting for your disapproval of my comments about your incorrect

interpretations.

 

 

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