Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Vic,
Is that weather report graphic your admission that you CANNOT answer the questions in my post just above it?
If so, I am not surprised. But, I am disappointed -- for you made some very unBiblical statements. That is why I asked you:
Where is YOUR Scriptural proof of "we are our own salvation" and "It's the children that will or won't let anyone snatch themselves. It's the individual who decides"?
I've already told you your Free Will is your choice to be saved or not, do you
believe you have a free will? Do you believe by staying in a state of grace
you will be saved. Do you believe if you die in a state of serious sin
you can lose your salvation? Do you believe Puff the magic Ticket will get
you into Heaven no matter what you do? Do you believe all you need to do
is say "Lord Lord."
This is self explainatory for a person and their salvation.
billie you say
Yet, we read in Scripture:
John 10:27-29,
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither
shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is
able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
This doesn't say that we cannot leave God’s hand voluntarily ourselves
through loss of faith or through serious sins. We have a free will and can
choose our destiny.
If we cooperate with the graces God gives us, and avoid the temptations
of this world, no one keep us from heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:9:
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is
made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my
infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
After being justified, we can either stay in God’s graces or lose them
through sin or disbelief. We only have to look back at Chapter 6 of John’s
Gospel to see desciples of Jesus leaving him because they rejected his
teaching on the Eucharist:
billie you say:
Ephesians 1:13 / 4:30
billie you are sealed alright, but it's talking about sealed in Baptism
You could have also used 2 Cor 1: 21-22
21 But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed
us is God
22 he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as
a first installment. Baptism
And you also say Rom 8:29-30
Paul is saying the Father from before the beginning had taken much
thought and planning for our salvation.
And you again billie...Jude 1:24-25,
Paul is telling us God can keep us from falling and stumbling.
But this isn't a promise. God doesn't promise but he is able to help
with Graces.