Pastor Chuck Smith dies at 86

Hi David,

 

He was known to have lung cancer for about two years; but, it did not stop him.  For most of that time he still did services at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, did the Pastor's Perspective talk show on KWVE Christian Radio, and spoke at conferences. 

 

He went into the hospital for about a week, and was scheduled to come home several days ago.  But, I guess he took a turn and passed away Thursday morning, October 3rd, at 3:00 AM.

 

This happened so suddenly that even people who were close to him were taken by surprise.   Oden Fong, pastor of Poiema Christian Fellowship in Huntington Beach (who is also a professional quality musician), posted on Facebook that he had plans to visit Pastor Chuck in the hospital on Thursday to play and sing for him.  But, before he could come, he got news that Pastor Chuck was already in heaven.

 

I was telling my wife that I am sure they will have several memorial services -- one for immediate family and close friends, and another for all the people who want to express their love for him.  But, the second service will require a venue much larger than Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.  Not sure where that will be yet.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

CALVARY CHAPEL COSTA MESA SANCTUARY.

PASTOR CHUCK TEACHING.

NOT A LARGE FANCY SANCTUARY --

BUT GOD HAS ACCOMPLISHED SO MUCH HERE!

Think he'll run into those babies he told the woman to abort?

Hi David,

 

Now you know why I did not start a discussion on the Religion Forum about Pastor Chuck Smith's death.  There are folks who cannot even respect the family and friends of a person who has died.

 

When Christopher Hitchens died of cancer in December 2011, neither I nor any other Christian on the Religion Forum made comments about him such as Jennifer Best has done of Pastor Chuck.  We respected the situation of Hitchens' death enough, even though we totally disagreed with his beliefs, to just leave it alone.

 

However, now that Jennifer's comment has prompted me to compare the response of Christians to Hitchens' death -- to the response that Jennifer Best, an atheist, has given to this most recent public death of a Christian pastor -- I would like to share an interesting interview with you;

 

Christopher Hitchens' Widow On His Death: "God Never Came Up"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...h-god-never-came-up/

 

(CBS News) Christopher Hitchens, the acclaimed and often controversial author, took on many topics throughout his prolific career -- he condemned religion in his well-known tome "God is Not Great," and in his last work, he chronicled his ordeal with esophageal cancer.

Hitchens died of cancer in December 2011 and his last book, "Mortality," has just been published.  It includes seven essays he penned for "Vanity Fair," and a final chapter that he never finished.

Friday morning, Hitchens' widow, Carol Blue, joined "CBS This Morning" co-host Charlie Rose to discuss the highly anticipated work of non-fiction and her husband's legacy and last hours.

Blue said her husband remained cognizant and in good spirits until "hours before he died," from a case of "serious pneumonia" Blue says he caught in the hospital.

He also remained optimistic that he would survive and Blue says despite his months-long battle with illness, the end was unexpected because he had been "living with profound illness and the treatments that accompanied it for a very long time."

When asked to define her husband, Blue smiled and said, "He was much better than you can possibly imagine, he really was," she said, before adding "it's a shame" his admirers couldn't experience living with him.

Of his final hours, Blue maintains that he knew he was very sick but expected to leave the hospital after "a couple of days."  During his last days, he held court at the hospital, receiving visitors and leading spirited debates about "various subjects," but Blue firmly told Rose that "God never came up, if anyone is interested . . . it was a non-subject."

Hitchens made much of his disbelief in God, refuting critiques from those who said he would "find God" in his final months.

His wife, who was with him for more than 20 years, calls "Mortality," an "intimate narrative" and a "contemplation about the sad fact that we're all born to die" that is "infused with extraordinary optimism."

The source of this optimism until the end?  According to Blue, "an enormous zeal and love of life, he adored every second of it.  He had to continue living as if he might not be close to the end, but he also had to prepare to die and think of what that might mean."

 

I find several things interesting in this interview with Hitchens' widow:   First, she proclaims that "God never gave up!"   This tells me that, even though she lived with and loved Christopher Hitchens for 20 years -- she did not really buy into his militant atheism.   This also tells me there is hope that this lady will one day turn to God -- if she has not already.

 

Then, she tells Charlie Rose of her husband, that Hitchens had, "contemplation about the sad fact that we're all born to die" -- but that he was, "infused with extraordinary optimism."

 

How can a person who sincerely believes that death is final, total darkness, and there is NOTHING after death -- have "extraordinary optimism" about dying?

 

This leads me back to what I have always believed.   That there is no such thing as a person who is a 100% atheist.  There are folks who will publicly declare there is no God.  There are folks who, I am sure, almost believe it themselves when they say it publicly.  

 

Yet, we have to wonder, in light of his widow's comments, about Hitchens and his final moments.  

 

We must also wonder what that devout atheist really tells himself/herself when alone in the privacy of his/her own private thoughts.  We can only pray that those private thoughts give way to what Christopher Hitchens' widow tells us, "God never gave up!"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

_______

Hi David,

 

Ditto for agnostics who choose to wear blinders -- pretending not to read nor hear those with whom they disagree!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

My condolences on the demise of your favorite heretic, Bill.

Hi David,

 

Ditto for a Liberal Legalistic who is ASHAMED of his church (if he has one).    This is why I never posted a prayer request for Pastor Chuck -- and did not post about his promotion to heaven.

 

But, my Friend, I thank you for having the decency and compassion to post it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

AND, THERE ARE THOSE WHO

ALSO SAY THE "RAPTURE" IS NOT REAL!

OH, WELL, WE WILL KNOW ON THE WAY UP!

 

I think it's sad when a soul here on earth is so hurt and wounded it no longer shares personal words and agonies with Jesus.  The saviour of the soul gets left out and pushed aside in some lives.

Christopher Hitchens' mother committed suicide. I wonder if this pain caused him to reject God.  Mr. Hitchens never came to a point where he laid bare his personal pain and agonies to Jesus.  He never spoke closely, painfully to Jesus about everything on his heart.

===================

There's that "something bad happened so they turned away from god" argument. Why bring up Hitchen, what has he got to do with smith dying? He was an atheist, why would he have "spoken" to your jesus?

I saw Hitchens name in an earlier post by someone else and it just got me thinking about that. I always wondered what point it was that Hitchens decided he would be an atheist. 
But, Bestworking, I'm not arguing, I'm just posting my thoughts as I read the comments of others on this thread.

Something you need to understand, an atheist, a true unbelieving atheist, does not choose to not believe. Some lose it, the belief leaves them. It LEFT me. Some atheists will say they never believed at all, that it never made any kind of sense to them to worship a god, even if their parents were religious and had them "in church". They just never "bought in to it". I think that's a case of a lot of people. They go to church, they are immersed in all the things going on, but they are never really buying in to it and when they do "leave" the church people are shocked and toss out the "ohhhh, something bad happened" argument. Or, "they want to follow the world". That one cracks me up.

I think a lot of people are in church & consider him/herself a Christian because Mom & Dad raised them in it, & they continued the tradition because they never questioned  Mom & Dad, the Bible or what they were raised to believe. They in turn did the same with their children.

I'm the only one in my family that has ever questioned the Bible & my church raising, & found them lacking. I started researching, studying, reading & found reality. Most people never go beyond or question their raising. My family treats me like I have brain damage because I decided to look beyond my raising.. 

 

I believe David was referring to my earlier post when I mentioned Christopher Hitchens:

 

Hi David,  Now you know why I did not start a discussion on the Religion Forum about Pastor Chuck Smith's death.  There are folks who cannot even respect the family and friends of a person who has died.

 

When Christopher Hitchens died of cancer in December 2011, neither I nor any other Christian on the Religion Forum made comments about him such as Jennifer Best has done of Pastor Chuck.  We respected the situation of Hitchens' death enough, even though we totally disagreed with his beliefs, to just leave it alone.

 

However, now that Jennifer's comment has prompted me to compare the response of Christians to Hitchens' death -- to the response that Jennifer Best, an atheist, has given to this most recent public death of a Christian pastor -- I would like to share an interesting interview with you;

 

Christopher Hitchens' Widow On His Death: "God Never Came Up"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...h-god-never-came-up/

 

(CBS News) Christopher Hitchens, the acclaimed and often controversial author, took on many topics throughout his prolific career -- he condemned religion in his well-known tome "God is Not Great," and in his last work, he chronicled his ordeal with esophageal cancer.

Hitchens died of cancer in December 2011 and his last book, "Mortality," has just been published.  It includes seven essays he penned for "Vanity Fair," and a final chapter that he never finished.

Friday morning, Hitchens' widow, Carol Blue, joined "CBS This Morning" co-host Charlie Rose to discuss the highly anticipated work of non-fiction and her husband's legacy and last hours.

Blue said her husband remained cognizant and in good spirits until "hours before he died," from a case of "serious pneumonia" Blue says he caught in the hospital.

He also remained optimistic that he would survive and Blue says despite his months-long battle with illness, the end was unexpected because he had been "living with profound illness and the treatments that accompanied it for a very long time."

When asked to define her husband, Blue smiled and said, "He was much better than you can possibly imagine, he really was," she said, before adding "it's a shame" his admirers couldn't experience living with him.

Of his final hours, Blue maintains that he knew he was very sick but expected to leave the hospital after "a couple of days."  During his last days, he held court at the hospital, receiving visitors and leading spirited debates about "various subjects," but Blue firmly told Rose that "God never came up, if anyone is interested . . . it was a non-subject."

Hitchens made much of his disbelief in God, refuting critiques from those who said he would "find God" in his final months.

His wife, who was with him for more than 20 years, calls "Mortality," an "intimate narrative" and a "contemplation about the sad fact that we're all born to die" that is "infused with extraordinary optimism."

The source of this optimism until the end?  According to Blue, "an enormous zeal and love of life, he adored every second of it.  He had to continue living as if he might not be close to the end, but he also had to prepare to die and think of what that might mean."

 

I find several things interesting in this interview with Hitchens' widow:   First, she proclaims that "God never gave up!"   This tells me that, even though she lived with and loved Christopher Hitchens for 20 years -- she did not really buy into his militant atheism.   This also tells me there is hope that this lady will one day turn to God -- if she has not already.

 

Then, she tells Charlie Rose of her husband, that Hitchens had, "contemplation about the sad fact that we're all born to die" -- but that he was, "infused with extraordinary optimism."

 

How can a person who sincerely believes that death is final, total darkness, and there is NOTHING after death -- have "extraordinary optimism" about dying?

 

This leads me back to what I have always believed.   That there is no such thing as a person who is a 100% atheist.  There are folks who will publicly declare there is no God.  There are folks who, I am sure, almost believe it themselves when they say it publicly. 

 

 I pray this clear up the matter for you.  Well, I should say it clears up any questions others might have from your post.   I realize that you are like are like Chicken Little and want to run and hide from everything Bill Gray writes -- so you pull the cloak of Ignore over your head.   But, just as well.  That avoids any unnecessary bickering and snide remarks.

 

Come to think of it -- isn't that what ALL atheist do -- pull the "God is not real" cloak over your heads; hoping that God will not notice you hiding under it? 

 

But, unfortunate for you, yet fortunate for we believers -- God does see all.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill