Go to www.ixquick.com and type in these three companies 1. Spectrum 7 Energy Corp. 2. Harkin Energy 3. Arbusto
As George Wallace stated years ago, "there is not a dimes worth of a difference between a Republican and a Democrate".
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quote:Today we need to build a new party, a labor and peoples party that represent the people.
quote:Although personal experiences can sometimes add insight what is happening to you and your friends does not reflect what the majority of the country is experiencing. Wages for the average worker have been stagnate and declining for years. Actually began under Reagan and raised very slightly under Clinton but have been stagnate for years. It's a fact and the majority of Americans have not seen a raise in years much less one that keeps up with inflation, which is why they have fallen into debt and most house holds now have both parents working, just to keep up. Most raises are very slight and workers are also now forced to give up benefits, like Medical, which alsoeats into their saleries.
Profits for corporations and CEO pay are record highs.
The wealth gap and income gap are a fact and that a CEO makes 300 to 400 times more then the average worker is the reason why wages have not gone up and the middle class is shrinking every day as more families fall into poverty. It is a pie and the workers not getting their fair share.
The loss of jobs is also a fact. We are losing our manufacturing sector and good paying jobs are being lost to countries with sweatshop labor. The small amount of new jobs being created are lower jobs with no benefits which also takes away from workers salaries.
Mismanagement of the economy by the government is what hurts individuals more then anything and Bush's economy is a disaster for working people.
If the current capitalist system is not working for the average person then why should the average worker support it? Our own Declaration of Independence says we have the right to abolish a government that is not serving the people. This capitalist system is not working for the average American and we need to replace it and have every right to do so.
You are being too provincial NashBama. Alabama is not the entire economy, and you are only correct about a few of the Southern States.quote:Originally posted by NashBama:quote:Although personal experiences can sometimes add insight what is happening to you and your friends does not reflect what the majority of the country is experiencing. <SNIP>
Nope, completely wrong and you did not read my post. Someone having money does not mean that there is not enough for other people. That's a typical communist myth. Money does not work that way. I don't know what country the middle class you're describing is in, but it's not this one. Homes are being built at a record pace, new businesses are starting up all the time, and money is being made. This is what I'm seeing with my own eyes. What you are describing simply is not reality.
quote:You are being too provincial NashBama. Alabama is not the entire economy, and you are only correct about a few of the Southern States.
In the big picture, people and jobs are migrating out of the traditional manufacturing centers. Some of those jobs are not only coming to Alabama, but the area you live in is presently embroiled in a controversy about how to attract some of that economic growth to your area. Wages are rising in Alabama, but they are rising from a point well below the national average. Housing is booming in Alabama, your state's Population is increasing.
You are doing the same thing the Nations Corporations are doing. You're looking out for number one and telling the rest of the country to suck hind tit. Making matters worse, you seem to think that the national government should focus on improving conditions in Alabama while letting Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and the whole of the Northeast rust away.
If they had the same power in the US government that Afghanistan or Somalia had, they would have no recourse but to start bombing Alabama. Do you remember the Civil War? The increasing legislative power of the non slave states is what precipitated it. Northern States were gaining legislative power, and threatening the Slave Based agricultural economy of the South. That is the reason the South seceded. It is also the reason segregation replaced slavery, and is the reason that wages in Alabama are still lower than the national average.
But that is a different subject all together.
The Conservative agenda is to maintain a system of cheap labor. The method of maintaining a system of cheap labor is to threaten to close the plants, and move the jobs to locales where labor is plentiful and CHEAP.
Look at the debate, listen to the anti-union rhetoric, consider the source, and realize that you are being indoctrinated into believing that corporations are benevolent, paternal forces, and government must help them prosper, so they can exploit YOU.
If you awaken to those facts of life in this grand old country, you might just start thinking like a progressive Democrat
quote:Originally posted by NashBama:
I never said anything about Alabama or any other states. That has absolutly nothing to do with what I wrote. If you can't keep up with the conversation, don't respond.
What you are seeing is IN ALABAMA. What you are not seeing is evident from the tone of EVERYTHING'S COMING UP ROSES in your commentary. Sorry guy, but if you present anecdotal evidence in a debate I am going to refer to it as I see fit to refer to it.quote:Homes are being built at a record pace, new businesses are starting up all the time, and money is being made. This is what I'm seeing with my own eyes. What you are describing simply is not reality.
quote:People are in debt because their wages are stagnate and are not rising with the pace of costs.
quote:People are in debt because they can't afford to live on what they are being paid. That's why they have both heads of the house hold working.
A lot of the debt is somtimes for medical costs also.
When there are more workers then jobs business dictates the wages.
When a corporation makes "X" amount of profits and the majority of it goes to CEO's and Shareholders while the workers get shortchanged that's what causes wages to stagnate. Workers are not receiving their fair share of the "PIE." No corporation or millionaire became rich without the labor of the worker.
Illegal immigration is a global problem brought about by policies of greed, exploitation and environmental destruction of Corporate Globalization and Wars over resources. Illegal take low paying dead end jobs that most Americans are not interested in taking, like janitorial, landscaping, agricultural, busboys, day labor, factory work, etc. If these jobs were unionized there would be no problems. All immigrants have gone that route.
Good paying jobs in manufacturing have been sent overseas, to increase profits for the corporate class.
The real problem is actually with legal immigrants that corporations are bringing in to replace Americans who are receiving decent pay. These legal immigrants are paid less and are the real threat to the American worker. Again, we need unions in America and we need international unions.
The reason there is poverty and a declining middle class is the American people have been sold out by corporate America and the government it has bought and owned that turns it's back on workers and the corporate media that balmes scapegoats and leads us around in circles and acts as their apologists for the corporate class and government.
NashBama, YOU are right, and no I have not gone over to the dark side.quote:Originally posted by NashBama:
People being rich has nothing to do with others being poor. Money is not a pie where if someone has a big slice, someone else is left with a small slice. Wages are not stagnate and the middle class is doing fine. I'm middle class, my friends and family are middle class, and we're all doing fine. What hurts the middle class and any class is debt and mismanagement of money. That has nothing to do with others being rich. In this country if you're not happy with what your making, there are plenty of opportunities out there to change. What you are describing is a communist society which is simply a bad idea. I agree we need a third or even a fourth party, but not if it involves socialism or communism.
quote:In the "real world" both heads of households are working as families struggle to keep up, personal debt is up and wages are stagnate. More jobs have been lost then have been gained. Many who lost good paying jobs are now grossly under employed. Bankruptcies are up and the housing making is flat. Mortgages are defaulting at a record rate. Senator Schumer has announced the need for government action to help stop the forecloses, mainly because it will have a devastating effect on the entire economy. CEO salaries are up and are 300 to 400 times the amount of the average worker.
That's what happens and the "Kinds of jobs people get" when a country ships it's jobs over seas, destroys unions and worker protection and legally brings in immigrants to lower wages and increases pay at the top.
quote:Originally posted by NashBama:quote:In the "real world" both heads of households are working as families struggle to keep up, personal debt is up and wages are stagnate. More jobs have been lost then have been gained. Many who lost good paying jobs are now grossly under employed. Bankruptcies are up and the housing making is flat. Mortgages are defaulting at a record rate. Senator Schumer has announced the need for government action to help stop the forecloses, mainly because it will have a devastating effect on the entire economy. CEO salaries are up and are 300 to 400 times the amount of the average worker.
That's what happens and the "Kinds of jobs people get" when a country ships it's jobs over seas, destroys unions and worker protection and legally brings in immigrants to lower wages and increases pay at the top.
Personal debt is up because people are spending more than they make. Too many people are using credit cards, getting car loans, and taking out huge home loans. Personal debt has nothing to do with how much a CEO makes, it has to do with a person's own mismanagement of money.
Wages simply are not stagnate, I've already explained this. You are not forced to work where you are. If you do not like what you are earning, you find something that pays better. People do this all the time and companies know this. That's why they have to pay well to keep good employees. The housing market is flat now because it's coming off a record breaking boom. It will dip down again a little, then boom again. That's how things work.
Sure there are families that are struggling financially, that's something that has always happened and always will happen, it's life. Financial problems are not perminent, most people struggle for a period of time, they make changes in career and education, then they make more money. The middle class you are describing is not what I see personally. Even in Florence, things are a little tougher financially, but people still have enough to eat and can buy Christmas presents. What you are describing simply is not reality.
quote:Nash, I am really not sure what dream world you are looking at right now, because GETTING ANOTHER BETTER PAYING JOB is not an option for a lot of people in this USA!!!! Look around, it is proven!!!
Unemployment is low, people have drawn all they can, looked for jobs each and every week, cannot find them so now they are having to resort to min. wage just to have a little cash... MAN, I pray to God it never happens to you, because you are one person on here who has been so judgmental on people who cannot do better right now, that you may end up where they are...
I don't mean to be mean at all... but think back at the steel mills, textile mills.. remembre those GOOD paying jobs? Then remember THOUSANDS of people all looking for that ONE job that will SAVE their family... some never even got close... coulent even afford to leave town...
If we, as Americans, EVER stop thinking with our hearts, then we are doomed to start with, and that is what has been happening for at least the last four years... NO HEART, ALL MONEY.... and with THAT, we only get what we sow....
And there will be NO going back... it will be a done deal.
quote:You consistently speak to money as the right of the rich, and the goal of everyone else.
quote:You can believe what you want but the old line that if your poor it's your own fault doesn't cut it any more. The jobs are gone and wages are stagnate. Cites are crumbling and small towns are struggling.
People are experiencing the truth. They are working their bottoms off, productivity is up and CEO's wages are up but workers salaries are stagnate. It's a fact. They can't keep up with inflation. They idea that millions of people are deep in debt simply because they are irresponible is baloney.
There are more workers then jobs and corporation are bringing in more Legal immigrants to under cut workers pay. Some people do have luck and are able to do OK but it's not the case for many.
People should be able to afford to live without credit debt but are forced into it by low salaries.
Bankruptcies are up.
You can say what you want but workers are experiencing hard times and are beginning to organize, which is why union memberships are increasing and there is a move to reach and connect with international unions.
It isn't the water, it must be the paste. NashBama, Allow me to say this again. YOU are only looking at the place your backside is parked. READ THIS. http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/05/02/PM200705025.htmlquote:Originally posted by NashBama:quote:You can believe what you want but the old line that if your poor it's your own fault doesn't cut it any more. The jobs are gone and wages are stagnate. Cites are crumbling and small towns are struggling.
People are experiencing the truth. They are working their bottoms off, productivity is up and CEO's wages are up but workers salaries are stagnate. It's a fact. They can't keep up with inflation. They idea that millions of people are deep in debt simply because they are irresponible is baloney.
There are more workers then jobs and corporation are bringing in more Legal immigrants to under cut workers pay. Some people do have luck and are able to do OK but it's not the case for many.
People should be able to afford to live without credit debt but are forced into it by low salaries.
Bankruptcies are up.
You can say what you want but workers are experiencing hard times and are beginning to organize, which is why union memberships are increasing and there is a move to reach and connect with international unions.
Sorry, this is simply not true. I'm speaking about what I see in real life, not what I read on a web site. Cities are not crumbling and small towns are not suffering. There are plenty of jobs and plenty of people doing them. If you were right, then there would be no growth and development. All I have to do is sit in rush hour traffic and look at the construction projects for new businesses going up on the side of the road to prove you wrong.
I'm not rich by any stretch, I have a modest 3 bedroom house and a beat up 98 taurus. I'm middle class and what you are describing is not what I live every day. I'm fine and I don't need a union or socialst government.
quote:NashBama:
That proves my point, he's not middle class and I am. It's no different than someone who has never been to Alabama trying to tell you what it's like and someone who has lived there for years, who are you going to believe? In the world I live in, business is booming, people are buying and selling homes, and the middle class is strong. The only two threats to the middle class is personal debt and illegal immigration. That's reality no matter what some isolated pseudo-intellectual says.
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Reich monitors events around the country and around the world. He is well educated and an informed and experienced person. If only middle class people can talk about the middles class that would exclude all your TV and print pundits as well as think tank experts who are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and some in the millions.
I am also in the middle class and work at a small business. I would say the business is stable but has slowed somewhat and has prevented me and others from higher raises and maybe even retiring early. I have been here 35 years but I am in my mid 50's.
I take the time to monitor and read what is happening around the country and millions of people are suffering. Millions are deep in debt and now losing their homes. Job lose is a fact.
quote:People are in debt because their wages are not keeping up with inflation. Wages are stagnate. They are not getting their fair share of the pie.
Interest rates on credit are also too high.
It's that simple.