Penn Jillette - "This I beleive"

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:
There is No God

As heard on NPR's Morning Edition, November 21, 2005.

I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.


Penn Jillette is the taller, louder half of the magic and comedy act Penn and Teller. He is a research fellow at the Cato Institute and has lectured at Oxford and MIT. Penn has co-authored three best-selling books and is executive producer of the documentary film, “The Aristocrats.”

And???

What’s your point Gofish?

Is this the confirmation you have been awaiting?

Wow! What well thought out statement. Wouldnt't it be great if more people realized this truth? If people loved each other here and now there would be no war. Here is a book highly recommended.

God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.

by Christopher Hitchens

Peace, love

quote:

What’s your point Gofish?

Just food for thought. Sharing my soul with you strangers.

My sentiments are probably summed up in the last two paragraphs:

"Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."

netracer,

I certainly enjoyed that one. Ever read any Sam Harris? Where Dawkins is a microlaser, and Hitchens speaks with eloquent erudition, Harris is a blunt weapon, a hammer.

DF

'Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven.
No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.'

Fish,
He is saying that believing in God would interfere with his normal daily life and God causes people to be callous because they will win the heaven lottery. That's a twisted view of things. Discussion of all faiths are available regardless of your own personal view. I realize I'm in the minority on this, but to me this is just more bashing with no substance. I can say all atheists are sadistic morons just to tick them off, but I know that's not true. I do not adhere to the fundamentalist view, but I do not feel the need to criticize or belittle it. Mr. Jillette is a comedian, he enjoys his life, he has no more authority on right and wrong than any one walking down the street. I still find it ironic that the atheists start the religious discussions, not the believers.

PS: I thought NPR was going down the tubes?

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

What’s your point Gofish?

Just food for thought. Sharing my soul with you strangers.

My sentiments are probably summed up in the last two paragraphs:

"Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."

Gofish

“Food for thought”

I accept that myself. I read it and thought about it.

I would hope anything I say or any view I might have is taken as “just food for thought“

I never insist anyone take my views as the “last word”.

After all I cannot describe anything with absolute proof..

Within those parameters I am your friend.

Hi to all,

Our Friend, Fish, has presented us with the gospel of Penn Jillette. And, in his gospel, Penn Jillette has truly proven himself to be a comedian. As a matter of fact, if we accept that Mr. Jillette truly believes this -- he is the greatest comedian in the world; for he has fooled himself. And, apparently, he has found another follower, for he has also fooled our Friend, Fish.

I will take a moment and respond to Fish's dream atheist, Mr. Penn Jillette's, treatise on life:

PENN: I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

BILL: I know there is God. I am beyond atheism also -- but, in the positive direction; I believe in God. What does it mean to be "beyond atheism" when going in the negative direction? It means that you believe, more than other atheists, that God does not exist. Isn't that somewhat like "being more pregnant" than another lady who is pregnant? Or would it be like "being more dead" than the other guy laying in the casket next to you? Unbelief is unbelief -- no matter how you slice it.

It is truly amazing how one atheist will try to brag that he is more atheist than the atheist next to him. It would be like the two dimwitted guys who jump off a twenty story building -- and argue on the way down about who will be the most dead. Dead is dead; whether it be physical or spiritual. Atheist are spiritually dead. But, those still alive have one advantage -- they still have time to accept the real Truth -- as in the Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6) -- and attain spiritual life.

PENN: So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

BILL: Once again the atheist is like the Seven Blind Men of India poem -- each grasping for the truth, but not able to recognize it because of their blindness. With the atheist, it is their spiritual blindness which causes them to grasp for intellectual gods; rather than the true God.

One has to only look around, if he is not blind, to see all the wonders God has given us. Just the wonders and the beauty of nature should convince any normal person that only God could create anything so beautiful. Of course the atheist will follow his messiah, Darwin, and swear that all this just happen to occur by random chance, by chemicals reacting with a simple cell floating in a primordial swamp. And, the New Age pantheist will tell us that all of this is God; the rocks, the trees, the stars, the animals -- all things are God. Yet, those of us with spiritual discernment know that there is only one God -- and He created all this beauty we see in nature.

PENN: But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

BILL: So, what our intrepid expert, Penn Jillette, is telling us is that he is opposed to having to live by any rules. He apparently wants to live under or have anarchy, i.e., no rules, no ruler, everyone do his own thing.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines anarchy as: 1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government, and, 2 a: absence or denial of any authority or established order b: absence of order.

This is what Fish's new authority, Penn Jillette, is advocating -- an anarchical, lawless form of society where there are no rules.

PENN: Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

BILL: Mr. Jillette tells us he does not need heaven. There are only two alternatives, regardless of what an atheist might want to believe. The only two alternatives are heaven and hell. No amount of yelling, screaming, arguing, or postulating can change that -- those ARE your only two choices. But, and it is a big but, YOU must choose which will be your eternal destination.

Let's just take a look at how long we will be in our eternal destination:

From the web site: http://www.healthatoz.com we read: The average life span for an American was 77.3 years in 2002, up from 77.0 in 2000. In fact, Americans' health in the past 50 years has improved dramatically.

So, for the sake of this discussion, let's say that the average life span for an American today is 80 years.

There is no way to define "eternity" with a number; for eternity is endless; it is infinity. But, for the sake of this discussion, let's assign a number, 1 plus 30 zeroes (that's as high as my calculator goes), to eternity. We will say this is the length of time we will spend in eternity.

Now, let's compare our 80 year life span to eternity, consisting of 1 plus 30 zeroes years. That would be the number: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years. Now, let's compare that hypothesized time span of eternity to our 80 year life span. Dividing our 80 years by this eternal time span -- we get the number which equals .0000000000000000000000000008 years.

So, if we could define eternity as being 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years; then, your life span would be only .0000000000000000000000000008 years. Not very long.

However, we know that to define eternity with a number of years would require more zeroes than we could fit on this page -- and, even then, eternity would only be starting. The human life span then, as we are told in the Bible, is but a mere breath, a whisper quickly gone, when compared to eternity. The human life span when compared to eternity -- would make the batting of an eyelash seem like a thousand years. Think about that.

Psalm 39:11, "With reproofs You chasten a man for iniquity; You consume as a moth what is precious to him; Surely every man is a mere breath."

Job 7:16, "I waste away; I will not live forever. Leave me alone, for my days are but a breath."

And, Penn Jillette tells us he does not need heaven? In that case, my Friend, he is going to need a very rugged asbestos suit.

PENN: Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

BILL: Not true. A world without God; a world without rules -- means that you can be forgiven by being lynched, you can be forgiven my being castrated, or you could be forgiven by a hug. Of course that hug might come from someone with a knife in his hand, which will soon be in your back during your hug. Jillette is trying to create his own little utopian world within himself. I do believe this is some form of schizophrenia. Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines schizophrenia as: "a psychotic disorder characterized by loss of contact with the environment" -- and I do believe that this seems to be the world described by Mr. Jillette.

PENN: Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

BILL: For my sake, and for the sake of those who might be wondering: Solipsism, according to Merriam-Webster, means: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing; also : extreme egocentrism.[i/]

So, what our Friend, Fish, and his newly adopted leader, Penn Jillette, would have us believe is that by believing in God -- we are indulging ourselves in extreme egocentrism. By this, he means that Christian believers are more: [i] concerned with the individual rather than society.

What he is trying to persuade us is that, if we do not agree with Al Gore on global warming, if we do not agree with the liberals on same-sex marriage, if we do not agree that the Bible is wrong -- then, we are being self-centered.

This shows how little this man, and Fish, really know about Christian faith. Last night in our Bible study we were talking about this very thing -- that it is the Christian believer's responsibility and commission to reach out to the hurting world, to share the Gospel of Truth, the Word of God, with a hurting world. We do not believe in a Social Theology whereby the government builds a huge welfare state and provides all the needs of all the people. No, we believe in a government, and a society, which will help teach that man how to fish so that he can provide for his own family -- rather than just giving him fish every day.

Mr. Jillette says, "Without God, we can agree on reality." My Friend, without God, there is no reality. Without God in your life; the only reality is Satan. Let me ask you a question which you will only answer within yourself; no one else need know what you decide. Even if you do not believe the Bible; even if you do not believe God; even if you do not believe we Christian believers who share with you -- you have gathered enough knowledge in life to know that Satan is not a desired bedfellow. I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would purposely choose to live with Satan. Yet, by rejecting God; you ARE choosing to live with Satan.

So, my question to you: "Who would you rather live with eternally: God or Satan?" Forget the jokes and wisecracks -- just, within yourself, honestly and sincerely answer that question -- only to yourself. For, my Friend, that IS the choice you are making today.

PENN: Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

BILL: Mr. Jillette finally has one thing right. The suffering he might have seen in his family, in the world, is NOT caused by the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God. Instead it is the result of a fallen world, a world which was enveloped in sin by Adam's fall from grace, by Adam's disobedience to God -- and it is a world we will have to live in and with until we leave this world and go to our next home. If your next home is heaven; you will have no more suffering, no more tears eternally (Revelation 21:3-4). If your next home is hell; then the suffering you have experienced and witnessed in this world will be mild in comparison to what you will experience eternally with Satan (Revelation 21:8).

Mr. Jillette naively states, "No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future." No God (in your life) means an eternity of suffering -- with no do-overs.

PENN: Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.

BILL: Yes, denying God does give you more time for worldly adventures. You can spend your brief years on this earth -- and even if you do reach 80 years of age (which many, many do not); it is only a breath of time, a blink of the eye -- you will have to enjoy sex and Jell-O. But, then one day, and it could be much sooner than you think, you will have to pay the piper. That brief moment of life, even if you live to 80 or 100 years, will cost you an eternity of loss. And, keep in mind, we all are only one breath, one heart beat, away from eternity.

So, my dear Friend, Fish, this time you have really chosen a paper tiger to be your role model. Perhaps you should reconsider who you want to follow. There is another fellow who can really give you the truth. He tells us, in John 14:6, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me."

And, that, my Friend, you can take to the bank!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray
billdory@pacbell.net

Alabama bred,
California fed,
Blessed by God to be a Christian American!

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
Wow! What well thought out statement. Wouldnt't it be great if more people realized this truth? If people loved each other here and now there would be no war. Here is a book highly recommended.

God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.

by Christopher Hitchens

Peace, love

Hi Net,

You confuse me. You are advocating that we all love one another -- and then you recommend a book which preaches nothing but hatred toward God and all who believe in God.

Let me recommend another book to you; one which truly teaches love for all. It is the Bible; and with this book, you cannot go wrong.

One of us is confused.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

What’s your point Gofish?

Just food for thought. Sharing my soul with you strangers.

Hi Fish,

Maybe that is the difference. While we here on the Forum might not recognize your face because you would rather hide behind a pseudonym and not meet anyone in person -- we still consider you our Friend.

Yet, you consider us STRANGERS.

How do we become your Friends? Do we have to vow allegiance to Darwin? Do we have to swear allegiance to Dawkins, Hitchens, Satan -- to be considered your Friend?

How about we just be Friends who agree to disagree?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

MY NAME HAS BEEN TAKEN IN VAIN!

To my Friends, this is a joke. To the others, go ahead and slobber all over it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Mr. Bill,

Have you read "god is not Great"? Do you know what it says?

DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
Mr. Bill,

Have you read "god is not Great"? Do you know what it says?

DF

Hi Deep,

And, you are going to tell us that this book, a book written by Christopher Hitchens, is not ANTI-GOD.

That is like saying that we should read a book written by Charles Manson -- to learn how to love our fellow man.

Good try. Hey, Deep, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you really cheap.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I'll take that as a "No".

As usual, you are blathering on about things you know nothing about.

Do you even take yourself seriously?


DF

fish considers me a friend, don't you, fish? and i, you.

lol, ronnie!

Sayeth Bill:

quote:

MY NAME HAS BEEN TAKEN IN VAIN!

OMB*, that is just funny.

I can almost assure you, billdammint, that it shall be taken in vain much more often now.

("Oh My Bill")

quote:

fish considers me a friend, don't you, fish? and i, you.

There are strangers here that I will never know even if I spend a lifetime with them. Billdammit is one of those. Their soul makes no sense. They are beyond understanding.

There there are those who I have never met that I understand on a deeper level. The term "grok" comes to mind here. I am content just knowing that those people are out there, that perhaps this little town isn't as primitive as I once feared. Yeah, even if we never lays eyes on each other, you're a friend, Hoss. Glad to know ya, bud.

Bill H. Grey!

GF, knock it off! Thou shalt not take the name of thy Bill in vain.

Billphemy! Bill only knows what justice you are bringing down onto your head.

Bill have mercy on your soul.


DF

Hi Fish,

You say, "There are strangers here that I will never know even if I spend a lifetime with them. Billdammit is one of those. Their soul makes no sense. They are beyond understanding."

I am happy that you now recognize that we, and you, have a soul. So, now that you have a body and a soul, we just need to work on helping you regain your spirit. Then, you will be a Christian believer.

My Friend, we are making progressive. Don't quit now.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Mr. Bill,

Each of us has a unique collection of experiences, perspectives, feelings, thoughts, observations, prejudices, likes, dislikes, etc. What better definition of this mentality than "soul"?

We can hope it transcends death, but we have no reason to believe it does.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
Mr. Bill,

Each of us has a unique collection of experiences, perspectives, feelings, thoughts, observations, prejudices, likes, dislikes, etc. What better definition of this mentality than "soul"?

We can hope it transcends death, but we have no reason to believe it does.

DF

Hi Deep,

Wonderful, now we know that both you and Fish have both body and soul. All we have to do now is to work on getting you back into the "spirit" by having your "spiritual connection" activated. Then, you both will be my Christian brothers. Isn't that exciting?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

It's f!!!ing frightening to think I could ever be
an orc like you.


DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
It's f!!!ing frightening to think I could ever by an orc like you.

DF

Hi Deep,

That is okay. We believers still have a deep Christian love for you. Who knows what can happen with that?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Lame.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

What’s your point Gofish?

Just food for thought. Sharing my soul with you strangers.

Hi Fish,

Maybe that is the difference. While we here on the Forum might not recognize your face because you would rather hide behind a pseudonym and not meet anyone in person -- we still consider you our Friend.

Yet, you consider us STRANGERS.

How do we become your Friends? Do we have to vow allegiance to Darwin? Do we have to swear allegiance to Dawkins, Hitchens, Satan -- to be considered your Friend?

How about we just be Friends who agree to disagree?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

How about you practice what you preach, Bill?

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

What’s your point Gofish?

Just food for thought. Sharing my soul with you strangers.

Hi Fish,

Maybe that is the difference. While we here on the Forum might not recognize your face because you would rather hide behind a pseudonym and not meet anyone in person -- we still consider you our Friend.

Yet, you consider us STRANGERS.

How do we become your Friends? Do we have to vow allegiance to Darwin? Do we have to swear allegiance to Dawkins, Hitchens, Satan -- to be considered your Friend?

How about we just be Friends who agree to disagree?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

How about you practice what you preach, Bill?

Hi Crusty,

Would you mind expanding upon that?

No, I do not look at the folks in the Shoals area as strangers; but as home town folks. Many I have not yet met -- but, if we can communicate -- by written or spoken works -- then, we are not strangers.

Personally, I consider the folks in the Shoals area as my home town family.

And, because you are family; I want to share the best gift I have ever received with all of you; I want to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with all my family.

And, you, Crusty, are one of my home town family -- a wee bit cantankerous, often disagreeable and testy -- but, still family.

The next step would be to add you to my Christian family. Now, that would really make me happy.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Crusty,

You, too, can be an orc.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
Crusty,

You, too, can be an orc.

DF

Hi to all,

Now let this be a lesson to all of you who have accused atheists of being intellectuals. See how Deep has proven all of you wrong? I do hope you will think twice the next time you want to say anything derogatory about a Forum Friend like Deep.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Bill, I wasted intellect on you for a year, only to find that your religious poisoning has, like a cancer, eaten away the reasonable, honest, and noble parts of your brain.

Although ridicule is always appropriate to your jesus rants, sometimes it is inadequate. Then, I must resort to reality.

DF

PJ is clearly grounded in reality. I heard/read this a while back and thought it was worthy then as I do now.

Regards, miamizsun

quote:

Originally posted by miamizsun:
PJ is clearly grounded in reality. I heard/read this a while back and thought it was worthy then as I do now.

Regards, miamizsun

Hi Miami,

That is okay. You and Fish can worship the comedian and his reality. But, I will stick to worshiping Jesus Christ and His reality.

But, just a wee heads up -- our team wins.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Another heads up, Mr. Bill.

Your side has already lost. You just can't recognize it.

DF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV46fsmx6E

DF

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by miamizsun:
PJ is clearly grounded in reality. I heard/read this a while back and thought it was worthy then as I do now.

Regards, miamizsun

Hi Miami,

That is okay. You and Fish can worship the comedian and his reality. But, I will stick to worshiping Jesus Christ and His reality.

But, just a wee heads up -- our team wins.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill, why would I worship anyone?

"This I Believe"- William F. Buckley

How Is It Possible to Believe in God?

As heard on NPR's Morning Edition, May 23, 2005.

I've always liked the exchange featuring the excited young Darwinian at the end of the 19th century. He said grandly to the elderly scholar, "How is it possible to believe in God?" The imperishable answer was, "I find it easier to believe in God than to believe that Hamlet was deduced from the molecular structure of a mutton chop."

That rhetorical bullet has everything -- wit and profundity. It has more than once reminded me that skepticism about life and nature is most often expressed by those who take it for granted that belief is an indulgence of the superstitious -- indeed their opiate, to quote a historical cosmologist most profoundly dead. Granted, that to look up at the stars comes close to compelling disbelief -- how can such a chance arrangement be other than an elaboration -- near infinite -- of natural impulses? Yes, on the other hand, who is to say that the arrangement of the stars is more easily traceable to nature, than to nature's molder? What is the greater miracle: the raising of the dead man in Lazarus, or the mere existence of the man who died and of the witnesses who swore to his revival?

The skeptics get away with fixing the odds against the believer, mostly by pointing to phenomena which are only explainable -- you see? -- by the belief that there was a cause for them, always deducible. But how can one deduce the cause of Hamlet? Or of St. Matthew's Passion? What is the cause of inspiration?

This I believe: that it is intellectually easier to credit a divine intelligence than to submit dumbly to felicitous congeries about nature. As a child, I was struck by the short story. It told of a man at a bar who boasted of his rootlessness, derisively dismissing the jingoistic patrons to his left and to his right. But later in the evening, one man speaks an animadversion on a little principality in the Balkans and is met with the clenched fist of the man without a country, who would not endure this insult to the place where he was born.

So I believe that it is as likely that there should be a man without a country, as a world without a creator.

quote:

So I believe that it is as likely that there should be a man without a country, as a world without a creator.

You see? Even William F Buckley believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Way to go, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

So I believe that it is as likely that there should be a man without a country, as a world without a creator.

You see? Even William F Buckley believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Way to go, Bill.

Hi Fish,

In the atheist's mind, you could be right. However, in the spiritually enlightened mind; we know what he was saying. Enjoy your fantasy.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

So I believe that it is as likely that there should be a man without a country, as a world without a creator.

An almost perfect non sequitur.

DF