Personal Attacks

Hi all,

In this instance, I do wholeheartedly agree with my Friend, Al Williams. There is NEVER a good reason to attack others with derogatory names and vulgarities.

If we feel so strongly that another is wrong; then, we should have enough knowledge of our own beliefs to counter their comments and questions -- without resorting to vulgar attacks.

Right on, Al! I agree. Let's have discussions and debates; sometimes heated and sometimes just disagreeing. But, let's ban the vulgarities and character defamations.

Then, we will really have a Religion Forum Community.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I vote NO, but thats just me. anybody else vote NO?

Big & special K

Well I could vote no, but then it is fun to watch adults stoop to such levels.

Kinda lets one know if their stance can be backed up by book,chapter,and verse. Or only by what someone else has decided what they should believe.

For me, I like to have some bases on which I fall. That are solid and bound in the Scriptures.

quote:

Originally posted by themax:
Well I could vote no, but then it is fun to watch adults stoop to such levels.

Kinda lets one know if their stance can be backed up by book,chapter,and verse. Or only by what someone else has decided what they should believe.

For me, I like to have some bases on which I fall. That are solid and bound in the Scriptures.

max, A NO vote is watching the crazy people (not us) talk snotty to each other.
let'em go.

k

In that case, no.
I'll just watch the goofy ones carry on.

Bill, although I see how you'd need a subcategory such as "derogatory names and vulgarities" in order to wholeheartedly agree with Al, Al's message was much broader. He said use of personal attacks make the attacker's message evaporate. I agree. He said to expect anyone outside the attacker's fan club to be disgusted. I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
Bill, although I see how you'd need a subcategory such as "derogatory names and vulgarities" in order to wholeheartedly agree with Al, Al's message was much broader. He said use of personal attacks make the attacker's message evaporate. I agree. He said to expect anyone outside the attacker's fan club to be disgusted. I agree.

Hi Joy,

I may be dense; but, I am not sure what you are trying to say. I do agree with Al, and you, that we should not use the Forum to launch a personal attack against anyone -- period.

On the other hand, when Al, or anyone else, brings teachings from a world or cult religion to the Religion Forum -- I do believe we Christians should refute that false teaching.

We should not do it in a manner which is seen as a personal attack against that person. But, we most certainly should point out to our Forum Friends that this is a false teaching -- and why. And, if a person continues to post false teachings from a cult book; we should point this out also. Do you disagree?

An example is Al's copy/paste posting from his New Age Urantia Book bible -- which he has begun to do again. Another is his posting of the Universalism taught by L. Ray Smith.

And, Dwight's attempts to lure people to his Mormon Blog. We certainly cannot tell people not to visit his Blog; but, we can most certainly tell them that his Blog teaches Mormonism. Then, if they want to read it; God bless them.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
Bill, although I see how you'd need a subcategory such as "derogatory names and vulgarities" in order to wholeheartedly agree with Al, Al's message was much broader. He said use of personal attacks make the attacker's message evaporate. I agree. He said to expect anyone outside the attacker's fan club to be disgusted. I agree.

Hi Joy,

I may be dense; but, I am not sure what you are trying to say. I do agree with Al, and you, that we should not use the Forum to launch a personal attack against anyone -- period.

On the other hand, when Al, or anyone else, brings teachings from a world or cult religion to the Religion Forum -- I do believe we Christians should refute that false teaching.

We should not do it in a manner which is seen as a personal attack against that person. But, we most certainly should point out to our Forum Friends that this is a false teaching -- and why. And, if a person continues to post false teachings from a cult book; we should point this out also. Do you disagree?

An example is Al's copy/paste posting from his New Age Urantia Book bible -- which he has begun to do again. Another is his posting of the Universalism taught by L. Ray Smith.

And, Dwight's attempts to lure people to his Mormon Blog. We certainly cannot tell people not to visit his Blog; but, we can most certainly tell them that his Blog teaches Mormonism. Then, if they want to read it; God bless them.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

http://cherokeesrealcobra.blogspot.com
You Mean This One Bill? ;0)

Bill...In my opinion, there is no excuse for a personal attack. Scripture says to "speak the truth IN LOVE". If a person is unable to do this, I truly think God would prefer them to remain silent because "if you do not have love, you gain nothing". The first paragraph from 1 Corinthians 13 spells this out...

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

This is Times Daily Forums and they have a set of rules. Al is as free to quote from a book he believes to be true as I am to quote the Bible.

No offense, but anyone with the intelligence to operate a computer and post on TD Forums can figure all of the things you mentioned in your last post without you telling them.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
Bill...In my opinion, there is no excuse for a personal attack. Scripture says to "speak the truth IN LOVE". If a person is unable to do this, I truly think God would prefer them to remain silent because "if you do not have love, you gain nothing". The first paragraph from 1 Corinthians 13 spells this out...

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

This is Times Daily Forums and they have a set of rules. Al is as free to quote from a book he believes to be true as I am to quote the Bible.

No offense, but anyone with the intelligence to operate a computer and post on TD Forums can figure all of the things you mentioned in your last post without you telling them.

Hi Joy,

Yes, God told us to love one another; but, Jesus also told us to Go, Disciple, Baptize, and Teach. Part of that teaching is to warn babes in Christ and new seekers when someone is trying to lure them into cults and world religions. This is what I do.

However, you do as your conscience guides you -- and, I will do as I believe Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8, and Mark 16:15. In this way, we can be a team. You love them and I will guard them against cults and false teachers. Sounds like a plan to me!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Although I won't always succeed, I will continue to do as scripture says and speak the truth in love. I will follow God's rules of conduct, not Bill's.

New Christian or someone seeking the truth does not equal ignorant. If you could acknowledge the fact that you are speaking to your equal, you might be received better. That's my advice, for what it's worth, but you are of course free to do and say whatever you want.

I'm willing to bet that Dwight, Al, and anyone else that is being accused of 'false teaching' finds that accusation offensive......

joy, your hatchet made of gentle fuzz balls cannot stand to the mighty sword made of bills ego. nice try though.

quote:

However, you do as your conscience guides you -- and, I will do as I believe Jesus Christ tells us

No condescending attitude there, Bill. You just implied that Joy is violating what the Bible says. Way to go Bill.

But no personal attacks, I will just say that you are being judgmental again.

What I dont understand is how I missed the part in the TOS that stated that the Religion Forum is for Christians only? Where does it say that this is the 'Baptist' Forum, or the 'Jewish' Forum, or the 'Catholic' Forum?

If you want to speak with others about 'your' specific religion, and not be exposed to the beliefs of others, the place to do it is not here.

Its one thing to come here and share your thoughts on your beliefs. Its another to come here and take over the place as your own personal church (as Bill seems to have attempted to do), trying to cast out anyone who does not believe as you do......

Captain

quote:

Its one thing to come here and share your thoughts on your beliefs. Its another to come here and take over the place as your own personal church (as Bill seems to have attempted to do), trying to cast out anyone who does not believe as you do......

I think they'd miss us if we went. They need us to spew their hatred on. Especially the one that pretends she's so pious and special. I may have just skipped through here if not for a few things I started reading. AND like you I couldn't find anything that said "christians only" on the door.

No, it's not Christian only, but the few of other beliefs who venture in are bashed so bad, they leave.

All that peace and love flowing! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
Although I won't always succeed, I will continue to do as scripture says and speak the truth in love. I will follow God's rules of conduct, not Bill's.

New Christian or someone seeking the truth does not equal ignorant. If you could acknowledge the fact that you are speaking to your equal, you might be received better. That's my advice, for what it's worth, but you are of course free to do and say whatever you want.

Hi Joy,

Not sure about you; but, when I first became a Christian believer in 1987 -- I knew very little about God's Word. Even after being a Christian for a year or so, I still was into New Age and psychics -- until a loving pastor explained to me how I was allowing demonic spirits into my life by dabbling in the paranormal.

So, yes, a person who is a relatively new believer, and especially those who are just beginning to seek -- are very vulnerable to false teachings. And, I believe we more mature Christians are responsible for helping them grow and mature in God's Word.

We do not do this by doing good deeds for them -- and then turning them over to New Age, Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarian Universalists, or other cultic religions. I believe, that when Jesus Christ told us to Go, Make disciples, Baptize them, TEACH THEM; that is what He meant -- not allow the cults to teach them.

But, just as some are more gifted at good works, some are more gifted as pastors, some are more gifted as teachers, evangelists, etc. --- we each must find the niche God has given us and put our full efforts into that ministry.

My wife has, in the last few months, chosen to follow the gift God has given her and teach music, piano, to young people. She has students ranging from 6 years old to young adults in college. She has them to our home where she teaches them piano; then they all gather with their guitars and sing praise music -- and, I just enjoy the fellowship.

While she is teaching one; I will talk and fellowship with the others -- and we all have a glorious time. Today we got a Christmas card from one family whose three daughters are Dory's students. In the card, each girl wrote her own personal note and then mom and dad wrote theirs. All the girls wrote how they enjoyed the instructions and the conversations.

So, let's not knock one another for the gift of ministry God has given us. You do yours, I will do mine -- and we should complement one another; not hinder one another.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Originally posted by Capt James T:
Its one thing to come here and share your thoughts on your beliefs. Its another to come here and take over the place as your own personal church (as Bill seems to have attempted to do), trying to cast out anyone who does not believe as you do......

I think they'd miss us if we went. They need us to spew their hatred on. Especially the one that pretends she's so pious and special. I may have just skipped through here if not for a few things I started reading. AND like you I couldn't find anything that said "christians only" on the door.

Hi Jennifer,

If you, and especially Captain, will look back at my posts -- you will find that I encourage atheists and others to stay in the Religion Forum. This is not meant to be facetious; but, your comments and questions open the door for good discussions which can only help those who are trying to sort out their feelings about God and Christianity.

And, believe it or not -- even folks like Al with his New Age and Universalism religions and Dwight with his Mormonism offer us good platforms from which we Christian believers can explain true Christianity.

Once a person knows true Christian faith, seeing a false religion is like seeing a phony $20 bill. It sticks out like a sore thumb. So, by exposing folks to those false teachings -- and then sharing Biblical Truths with them; we offer them the Full Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-18) to ward off the false teachers.

No, by no means do we want anyone to leave the Religion Forum. I will not attack you personally; but, I will refute any false teachings I read. That's fair, isn't it?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hi everyone:

First off, Joy:
Thank you for your kind words.

However, I consider it very much of an honor to be the subject of so much of Bill's attention. And while I do not read very much of what he says in these posts, apart from the occasional posting of the concern that I may be a "son of the devil", I find that he states his views in a manner which falls well within the guidelines of this forum.

In fact I welcome his posts. Rarely does the concept of a greater revelation of truth have an opportunity to stand out than when it is cast against the shadow of intolerance to the ideas proclaimed.

My concern, and the reason for my original post was the childish name calling which has again popped up, and is again polluting these threads. Honest debate has no room for words like "liar" or "weasel". Truth has no room for responses informing someone that he or she is hopelessly naive, or insane.

In my opinion a healthy debate, even a heated debate, is a good thing. But insults immediately evaporate the truth contained within any argument. No doubt some come here just to watch the circus. And if that is what they want, I am sure they are, at times, mightily entertained. But to me, it is a shame to watch grown men and women act like, no, act WORSE than squabbling children, and to do it in the name of (or against) God.
Al

I hope all of you realize that Bill is NOT the final authority on who is christian and who isn't. He does say many things that are very offensive and full of what he believes. Remember, those things her spews from his mouth against other religions are not necessarily truths according to the bible, but to him, they are truths according to his understanding of the bible. As C.O.B.R.A I fought his attacks of my religious testimony, that has been confirmed by the Holy Spirit after much prayer, but as Windsong I will not share those truths to be trampled upon by the un spiritually educated.
Bill is a70 year old man that will not remove the blinders from his ability to be taught by the spirit.

Now if someone tries to say I am a liar about who I am and me denying being cobra in an earlier post,I did not lie,I am not cobra but I am Dwight. Cobras is dead I am Windsong.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
If you, and especially Captain, will look back at my posts -- you will find that I encourage atheists and others to stay in the Religion Forum. This is not meant to be facetious; but, your comments and questions open the door for good discussions which can only help those who are trying to sort out their feelings about God and Christianity.

You encourage them to stay because you have no other choice. Yet your actions drive people to leave. If you acted like this in a public cafeteria (even one where 'religion' was the topic of the gathering), you would either incite a riot or run everyone off. Fortunately, most of the folks here are thick skinned and can deal with you. Some are not and dont hang out here because of you. And it has nothing to do with the fear of 'your' truth. Its because, unlike at home, they can't easily slam the door in your face. Even if they put you on ignore, you being here is apparent in nearly every discussion.

Captain

Personally, I think that's crap.

What I'm reading here sounds an awful lot like "do as I say, not as I do." Or that other corny saying-"If you haven't got anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all."

That only works in kindergarten. Life is full of things ya don't wanna hear. Ya either stand up to 'em or ya get mowed down and follow the bleating flock.

You're just asking people not to fire back when they get blasted in the face with one of those thinly veiled "bless his heart" type insults.

A personal attack is a personal attack, whether or not it is shrouded in scripture or sanctioned by god.

You GET what you GIVE in this world. I think even your bible tells you that.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, let's not knock one another for the gift of ministry God has given us. You do yours, I will do mine -- and we should complement one another; not hinder one another.

I love you as my brother in Christ, Bill, but you have hindered what you would call my ministry as well as many other Christians who were/are members here since you joined TD Forums. That's something you refuse to hear no matter how many times we tell you. Your haughty attitude and your condescending methods reaffirm what drive most non-believers away from God and the Church. The rest of us are left to attempt to repair the damage. I can see that God has given you gifts, but "if you have not love, you gain nothing". I and others have tried to tell you this before and you may not receive it now either. No worries. God is still on his throne and "now we know in part; then we shall know fully". Peace.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
Bill...In my opinion, there is no excuse for a personal attack. Scripture says to "speak the truth IN LOVE". If a person is unable to do this, I truly think God would prefer them to remain silent because "if you do not have love, you gain nothing". The first paragraph from 1 Corinthians 13 spells this out...

"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

This is Times Daily Forums and they have a set of rules. Al is as free to quote from a book he believes to be true as I am to quote the Bible.

No offense, but anyone with the intelligence to operate a computer and post on TD Forums can figure all of the things you mentioned in your last post without you telling them.

Hi Joy,

Yes, God told us to love one another; but, Jesus also told us to Go, Disciple, Baptize, and Teach. Part of that teaching is to warn babes in Christ and new seekers when someone is trying to lure them into cults and world religions. This is what I do.

However, you do as your conscience guides you -- and, I will do as I believe Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8, and Mark 16:15. In this way, we can be a team. You love them and I will guard them against cults and false teachers. Sounds like a plan to me!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Are you doing this for the Love of God or for some other reason ? It really sounds as though you are discounting Love. I would hope that Love is the reason but I do not see much love in your posts.

Edited to add

Love should be the BASIS for what we do PERIOD. Telling Someone ELSE to LOVE them while You Guard them indicates a lack of Love.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, let's not knock one another for the gift of ministry God has given us. You do yours, I will do mine -- and we should complement one another; not hinder one another.

I love you as my brother in Christ, Bill, but you have hindered what you would call my ministry as well as many other Christians who were/are members here since you joined TD Forums. That's something you refuse to hear no matter how many times we tell you. Your haughty attitude and your condescending methods reaffirm what drive most non-believers away from God and the Church. The rest of us are left to attempt to repair the damage. I can see that God has given you gifts, but "if you have not love, you gain nothing". I and others have tried to tell you this before and you may not receive it now either. No worries. God is still on his throne and "now we know in part; then we shall know fully". Peace.

Amen for Joy.

quote:

Originally posted by WINDSONG:
I hope all of you realize that Bill is NOT the final authority on who is christian and who isn't.

SO TRUE! - ONLY THE BIBLE, THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD, IS THE SOLE AUTHORITY ON SALVATION AND THE CHRISTIAN LIFE! - NO OTHER BOOK, NO OTHER PERSON!

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, let's not knock one another for the gift of ministry God has given us. You do yours, I will do mine -- and we should complement one another; not hinder one another.

I love you as my brother in Christ, Bill, but you have hindered what you would call my ministry as well as many other Christians who were/are members here since you joined TD Forums. That's something you refuse to hear no matter how many times we tell you. Your haughty attitude and your condescending methods reaffirm what drive most non-believers away from God and the Church. The rest of us are left to attempt to repair the damage. I can see that God has given you gifts, but "if you have not love, you gain nothing". I and others have tried to tell you this before and you may not receive it now either. No worries. God is still on his throne and "now we know in part; then we shall know fully". Peace.

Hi Joy,

How have I hindered your ministry? What have I written about the Gospel and the Word of God that is not true?

Joy, you may be happy believing that the Bible is not the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God; you may be happy believing in an eschatology which is not PreTrib/PreMillennial. However, I do believe this is what the Bible teaches -- and it is what I will share with folks.

If you are happy sharing a more liberal view of God and the Bible; so be it. You share your "works" Gospel -- and I will share the Ephesians 2:8-9 Gospel.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I told you how already.

I have no idea where you came up with the rest of that or why you feel it's pertinent to this conversation. None of those things you attribute to me are true of me.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by _Joy_:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, let's not knock one another for the gift of ministry God has given us. You do yours, I will do mine -- Hi Joy,

How have I hindered your ministry? What have I written about the Gospel and the Word of God that is not true?

Joy, you may be happy believing that the Bible is not the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God; you may be happy believing in an eschatology which is not PreTrib/PreMillennial. However, I do believe this is what the Bible teaches -- and it is what I will share with folks.
If you are happy sharing a more liberal view of God and the Bible; so be it. You share your "works" Gospel -- and I will share the Ephesians 2:8-9 Gospel.

BG, Shes talking about your ministry. Your dealing with a light weight here.
go ahead, hit her again.


.

BTW, I quoted scripture to try to get through to you. Those are not my words you are disregarding.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
I told you how already.

I have no idea where you came up with the rest of that or why you feel it's pertinent to this conversation. None of those things you attribute to me are true of me.

Hi Joy,

No, you have told me that you feel that I am hindering your ministry -- but, not how.

And, if I am wrong about your eschatalogical views, I apologize. The reason for my thinking this is that yesterday I was looking for an archive file -- and found one where you wrote that you do not believe in the Rapture. If one does not believe in the Rapture, one surely cannot believe in a PreTrib Rapture. This is why I said that you and I differ on our view of eschatology.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

What?! I'll have to see that to believe it, Bill. Where did I say that? You apparently have me confused with someone else.

Yes, I told you how. You don't listen.

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:
BG, Shes talking about your ministry. Your dealing with a light weight here.
go ahead, hit her again.

Huh?

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, let's not knock one another for the gift of ministry God has given us. You do yours, I will do mine -- and we should complement one another; not hinder one another.

I love you as my brother in Christ, Bill, but you have hindered what you would call my ministry as well as many other Christians who were/are members here since you joined TD Forums. That's something you refuse to hear no matter how many times we tell you. Your haughty attitude and your condescending methods reaffirm what drive most non-believers away from God and the Church. The rest of us are left to attempt to repair the damage. I can see that God has given you gifts, but "if you have not love, you gain nothing". I and others have tried to tell you this before and you may not receive it now either. No worries. God is still on his throne and "now we know in part; then we shall know fully". Peace.

I am grouped together with you because we are both Christians. When you treat others in a way that is contrary to the Word of God (haughty, condescending), it doesn't just hurt your witness. It hurts the witness of all your brothers and sisters in Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
I am grouped together with you because we are both Christians. When you treat others in a way that is contrary to the Word of God (haughty, condescending), it doesn't just hurt your witness. It hurts the witness of all your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Hi Joy,

Please show me where I have been "haughty, condescending" to others. If you consider refuting New Age, Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarian Universalists, etc. -- as being condescending; then, maybe you are right -- I have and will continue to refute them.

Joy, I guess you will always be on the liberal Christian side -- and I will always be on the conservative Christian side; but, as you said, we are Christian brother and sister. So, why don't we just let it go and stop adder fodder to make the non-believers jump for joy.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

The problem has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. You don't listen, Bill. It has to do with obeying or disobeying scripture...speak the truth in love...you can be gifted in every way, but if you have not love, you gain nothing. That's scripture, Bill, not Joy's opinion, not liberal Christianity or conservative Christianity, scripture written to you and me. I don't recall any of those you minister to or speak truth to here on TD Forums feeling loved by you. Think that thing through.

If I have to point out to you where have been arrogant or haughty or condescending...if words you have said to others do not immediately spring to your mind, then you will never get it. You don't see what you do, but most here do and have told you. What you choose to do with that information is up to you of course, but I think anything else I could say is a waste of time.

I do love you regardless and I guess we'll get along better in Heaven once we're told who is right and who is wrong...lol.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
I am grouped together with you because we are both Christians.

that is a very unfortunate truth, joy, and no, i am not "jumping for joy" over it. it is actually very sad.

happy holidays.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Joy, you may be happy believing that the Bible is not the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God; you may be happy believing in an eschatology which is not PreTrib/PreMillennial. However, I do believe this is what the Bible teaches

and may i remind you that NO WHERE in there does it claim to be literal and inerrant. you are pulling that from your wrinkly old ass bill.