Skip to main content

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

If I'm wrong in saying the Catholic Church is the one true

church Jesus made Peter the first head of said church and is 2000 years

old, Please prove me wrong and I'll join the Baptist church.

Deal??

_________

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

there is no way to prove God to a man who prefers to follow a man-made religion.

 

************************************************************

Well Non-William, my religion is man made, the man Jesus Christ,

the Son of God. Your assignment, if you decide to take it, will be to

disprove the Bible, the Bible the Man Jesus wrote.

Disprove the Church Jesus created within the Bible itself.

 

Or, you can deny the Bible as written by the hand of God.

You either accept the Bible as truth, in it's entirety or you accept

the Bible as false, in it's entirety.

 

I want to respond.

 

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Vic, as you know I am very inquisitive & always willing to explore ideas, learn something new & always asking questions.

(don't you just hate that?  )

What do you think about the Church of Christ claim that they are the first & only true church? There can only be one.

*********************************************************

I don't want to insinuate the wrong message about a church that was

started in the year 1906. I will say that everyone deserving of Heaven

has every right to Heaven as does the CoC.

All Protestant denominations were started about 1500 years after

the life of Christ.

 

What has brought all this on is the never ending lies of Bill G.

 

Vic I think the problem lies with your idea of what is a church. You think it is some man made entity .

Whatever happened between the day of Pentecost and 1905 or any other date for that matter has nothing to do with it.

  The group first called Christians was the Church established by Jesus and his church has been in existence since that time. Yes it is the “Church of Christ” since the day of Pentecost regardless of what role you assign to Peter.

  Peter was just a member of no greater importance than any Christian today. No man ca be the head of Christ’s Church. Condoning of sexual abuse of children within the Catholic Church should be evidence enough to disqualify any man as head of the Church of Christ. The weakness of man disqualifies the Pope or any other swinging ****. QED

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
What has brought all this on is the never ending lies of Bill G.

________

Bill is one of those people that doesn't want to learn beyond what he thinks he knows to be the truth. All he wants to do is be belligerent, offensive, unreasonable, condescending, difficult, & a bully. I could go on & on but you get the idea.

 

Originally Posted by vega:

Vic I think the problem lies with your idea of what is a church. You think it is some man made entity .

 

vega, I guess you missed where I said the man, Jesus created his Church,

the first Christian Church, founded by Jesus Christ and also set up by

Jesus Christ.

( 1905 was in an answer to someone's question about the CoC.)

 

I didn't assign any role to Peter, no one did except Jesus Christ, it was his

call. Point your finger and shake your fist at Jesus.

Yes, there has been many bad people going through the Catholic in the

last 2000 years, but it's only taken 500 years for Protestants to catch up

and pass the Catholics. Where do you get off at doing such a good yourself.

You've done a worse job.

What I have done is believed the Bible, protestants believe what they want,

what fits, LOL what don't fit.

 

Whatever happened between the day of Pentecost and 1905 or any other date for that matter has nothing to do with it.

  The group first called Christians was the Church established by Jesus and his church has been in existence since that time. Yes it is the “Church of Christ” since the day of Pentecost regardless of what role you assign to Peter.

  Peter was just a member of no greater importance than any Christian today. No man ca be the head of Christ’s Church. Condoning of sexual abuse of children within the Catholic Church should be evidence enough to disqualify any man as head of the Church of Christ. The weakness of man disqualifies the Pope or any other swinging ****. QED

 

Vic Jesus never made any man head of His Church, not Peter nor anyone else because of the fallibility of man. The child molestation was an example. That could happen in any denomination. You keep insisting that Peter had some special position that no other Christian has. Peter was simply another man.

Originally Posted by vega:

Vic Jesus never made any man head of His Church, not Peter nor anyone else because of the fallibility of man. The child molestation was an example. That could happen in any denomination. You keep insisting that Peter had some special position that no other Christian has. Peter was simply another man.

*****************

What does the Bible say about it? Are you ready to close the book on

the Bible? Explain Jesus out of it, is that not in the KJV?

 

Peter wasn't just another man according to Jesus, nor was John, Matthew,

the sons of thunder or the Baptist.

 

When you can denigrate the Bible to the point it isn't recognizable I know

you feel much better about the mind set you made for yourself.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by vega:

Vic Jesus never made any man head of His Church, not Peter nor anyone else because of the fallibility of man. The child molestation was an example. That could happen in any denomination. You keep insisting that Peter had some special position that no other Christian has. Peter was simply another man.

*****************

What does the Bible say about it? Are you ready to close the book on

the Bible? Explain Jesus out of it, is that not in the KJV?

 

Peter wasn't just another man according to Jesus, nor was John, Matthew,

the sons of thunder or the Baptist.

 

When you can denigrate the Bible to the point it isn't recognizable I know

you feel much better about the mind set you made for yourself.

 

 

Most reformers understood Peter to be the rock.  The reason they could say this and still claim that the current pope is not the same rock as Peter is that they think Peter's authority died with him. Catholics think this is a mistake. 

 

In Mat 18:16, true to his usual form of teaching, Jesus was invoking and old testament Scripture. In this case it was Isaiah 22:22. If we look at this passage, we see the precedent of succession to which Catholics believe Jesus was referring.   

 

...  I will place on his shoulder the  key of the house of David; he shall open, and no one shall shut; he shall shut,  and no one shall open...and he will become a throne of honor to his ancestral house.  And they will  hang on him the whole weight of his ancestral house, the offspring and issue,  every small vessel, from the cups to all the flagons. (Isaiah 22:23)

 

In the Old Testament, the office of Chancellor was a dynasty that had successors.  This was evidenced by the reference to an office, a throne, a robe, authority, and the keys. This office also sounds a lot like a present day pope. The key holder is called a father. This appears very much to be the language of succession.  Even the reference to the "House of David" in Isaiah 22:24 points to the issue of succession. David had died 400 years earlier. Jesus is also in the lineage of David. Jesus was King and certainly had the authority to give Peter the chancellor's (Prime Minister's) keys that God had given to Eliakim.

 

Keys are a permanent kind of thing. Jesus didn't say "I'll take them back after you die".  That would not make sense. Catholics think Jesus gave Peter the "office" just as Eliakim had been given the "office". Jesus gave Peter power to bind on earth. So Peter had power to name a successor, which Catholics think he did. He gave the keys to Linus, who gave them to Anacletus, who gave them to Clement.

 

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

If I'm wrong in saying the Catholic Church is the one true

church Jesus made Peter the first head of said church and is 2000 years

old, Please prove me wrong and I'll join the Baptist church.

Deal??

_________

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

there is no way to prove God to a man who prefers to follow a man-made religion.

 

************************************************************

Well Non-William, my religion is man made, the man Jesus Christ,

the Son of God. Your assignment, if you decide to take it, will be to

disprove the Bible, the Bible the Man Jesus wrote.

Disprove the Church Jesus created within the Bible itself.

 

Or, you can deny the Bible as written by the hand of God.

You either accept the Bible as truth, in it's entirety or you accept

the Bible as false, in it's entirety.

 

I want to respond.

 

Vic,

 

Are you challenging us to either accept the Bible in its entirety or reject it in similar fashion?

 

That's easy.  Reject it.  Any other response is farcical.

 

DF

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by vega:

Vic Jesus never made any man head of His Church, not Peter nor anyone else because of the fallibility of man. The child molestation was an example. That could happen in any denomination. You keep insisting that Peter had some special position that no other Christian has. Peter was simply another man.

*****************

What does the Bible say about it? Are you ready to close the book on

the Bible? Explain Jesus out of it, is that not in the KJV?

 

Peter wasn't just another man according to Jesus, nor was John, Matthew,

the sons of thunder or the Baptist.

 

When you can denigrate the Bible to the point it isn't recognizable I know

you feel much better about the mind set you made for yourself.

 

 

Most reformers understood Peter to be the rock.  The reason they could say this and still claim that the current pope is not the same rock as Peter is that they think Peter's authority died with him. Catholics think this is a mistake. 

 

In Mat 18:16, true to his usual form of teaching, Jesus was invoking and old testament Scripture. In this case it was Isaiah 22:22. If we look at this passage, we see the precedent of succession to which Catholics believe Jesus was referring.   

 

...  I will place on his shoulder the  key of the house of David; he shall open, and no one shall shut; he shall shut,  and no one shall open...and he will become a throne of honor to his ancestral house.  And they will  hang on him the whole weight of his ancestral house, the offspring and issue,  every small vessel, from the cups to all the flagons. (Isaiah 22:23)

 

In the Old Testament, the office of Chancellor was a dynasty that had successors.  This was evidenced by the reference to an office, a throne, a robe, authority, and the keys. This office also sounds a lot like a present day pope. The key holder is called a father. This appears very much to be the language of succession.  Even the reference to the "House of David" in Isaiah 22:24 points to the issue of succession. David had died 400 years earlier. Jesus is also in the lineage of David. Jesus was King and certainly had the authority to give Peter the chancellor's (Prime Minister's) keys that God had given to Eliakim.

 

Keys are a permanent kind of thing. Jesus didn't say "I'll take them back after you die".  That would not make sense. Catholics think Jesus gave Peter the "office" just as Eliakim had been given the "office". Jesus gave Peter power to bind on earth. So Peter had power to name a successor, which Catholics think he did. He gave the keys to Linus, who gave them to Anacletus, who gave them to Clement.

===============---------------===============

 

Vic, if you insist on making the Church something manmade then you are arguing for the scenario deep fat is constantly, along with his team, raising hell about. I think you have missed the point all together of a personal relationship with God.  Your argument is that someone has to be involved as a middleman.

Vic, also your story about Peter appointing a successor is the fudge factor necessary to prove it and it makes absolute sense but we can’t just go around relying on fudge factors now can we. That’s just like a human.

 

 

Originally Posted by vega:
 

 

 

Vic, if you insist on making the Church something manmade then you are arguing for the scenario deep fat is constantly, along with his team, raising hell about. I think you have missed the point all together of a personal relationship with God.  Your argument is that someone has to be involved as a middleman.

Vic, also your story about Peter appointing a successor is the fudge factor necessary to prove it and it makes absolute sense but we can’t just go around relying on fudge factors now can we. That’s just like a human.

*****************************************************************

 

vega, it is you that insist on making the Church a man made something.

 

Jesus created my church, your people recreated the church, reworded

the Bible and want to call me wrong because I won't stray from the

Bible and the spoken word of Christ.

 

You *******ize the word of God in everyway, knowing it's a twist

job, but still whine about it for 500 years. Believe whatever makes

you comfortable and it's not the Bible that makes you comfortable.

 

But don't insist I'm wrong when you don't even have the Bible to

back you up and I show you where it does back me up

 

I'm not wrong when I acknowledge the word of Jesus as truth,

you don't.

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by vega:

Vic you are just wrong about Peter being head of the Church; henceforth all the trappings spring from that model.

*******************************************************

 

I suggest we let this end as it has ran out of gas and come to rest.

 

My bottom line,

Peter isn't the head of Protestant churches.

 

Peter the Rock, is the Vicar of Christ, appionted head of his Church

by Christ himself. Given the Keys and Authority to Peter form

Jesus himself as stated by Jesus in the Bible.

I believe what the Bible says, I have no choice, it's the word of God.


 

Hi Vic,

 

My Friend, I searched a number of Bible translations, including the King James and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible -- and I could not find either Vicar of Christ or even Vicar.  If Peter was appointed by Christ to be the Vicar of Christ to the church -- don't you think that would be in the Bible?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

My Friend, I searched a number of Bible translations, including the King James and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible -- and I could not find either Vicar of Christ or even Vicar.  If Peter was appointed by Christ to be the Vicar of Christ to the church -- don't you think that would be in the Bible?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I believe it is in the Bible you old fool, you semi-christians, make up your

own religion as you go types couldn't understand the Bible at all if

someone didn't hide half of it and declare the rest of it symbolic.

 

You keep on searching there, Billie Bloodclot, you might find something

you old fart. LOLOLOLOLOL

 

 

 

One caveat Bill, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and manmade government of the Baptist Church is no different. When man has associations that determines what is good for the geese when a simple reading of scripture would suffice. A practice of such is the same nonsense as seen in denominations including the Catholic Church.  The Church belongs to Christ and is not to be fiddled with.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

Vic,

 

Jesus allegedly left Peter in charge of the Church when he knew he was leaving.  What is in no less dispute is that the Church lay fallow until Paul of Tarsus re-created it, based on "visions".

 

I suggest to all of you Christians to explore your Early Church.

 

DF

*********************************************

 

Mr. Fat, don't tread these waters if you can't swim, ignorance is too heavy,

It will surely pull you under.

 

quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:  Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,   My Friend, I searched a number of Bible translations, including the King James and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible -- and I could not find either Vicar of Christ or even Vicar.  If Peter was appointed by Christ to be the Vicar of Christ to the church -- don't you think that would be in the Bible?

 

I believe it is in the Bible you old fool, you semi-christians, make up your own religion as you go types couldn't understand the Bible at all if someone didn't hide half of it and declare the rest of it symbolic.   You keep on searching there, Billie Bloodclot, you might find something you old fart.

 

Hi Vic,

 

I really love the way you Roman Catholics talk!  Do all of you talk that way in mass?   How about the priest-- does he talk this way also?   Wow, things sure have changed since I was in the Roman Catholic church.

 

You tell me, "I believe it is in the Bible."   Does that mean that you hope it is in the Bible -- or that you think it is in the Bible, but, you are not sure -- or is that you way of declaring it is in the Bible -- but, you don't want to sound over confident? 

 

I suppose I should take it to mean that you have no idea if it is in the Bible or not -- but, the Vatican told you to say that -- and, by gum, you are going to say it -- regardless!

 

As I said, I looked in both the King James Bible and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible -- and could not find anywhere that it mention Peter the Vicar, Vicar of Rome, or just plain Vicar.  But, that is okay.  If the Vatican says it is there -- it must be hidden somewhere.   Vic, my Friend, if you EVER find ti -- let us know.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:   Originally Posted by vega:

One caveat Bill, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and manmade government of the Baptist Church is no different. When man has associations that determines what is good for the geese when a simple reading of scripture would suffice. A practice of such is the same nonsense as seen in denominations including the Catholic Church.  The Church belongs to Christ and is not to be fiddled with.


Hi Vega,

 

I agree that the many denominations, including the Baptists -- have truly muddied the Christian waters.  That is why, when someone asks me about our church, I tell them we are a Christian church -- a Christ-centered, Bible-teaching Christian church.   If they continue to push, I will say that we are affiliated with the Baptist General Conference.   But, on none of our church tracts or other material do we say we are a Baptist church; we are a Christian church.  It is not that we are ashamed of being Baptist.  Only that, as you said, the real church is not Baptist, Methodist, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, or whatever.  The real church is the body of believers, worldwide, who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

The church which began with the 120 disciples in the Upper Room in 33 AD -- had no denominations.  And, it is a sad commentary on man that we have so many today.  But, we must all keep in mind that all men are fallen -- even though many of us have become "forgiven sinners" who walk with Christ.

 

I have written my own personal Statement of Beliefs based upon what I believe the Bible teaches us.  And, since my personal Statement of Beliefs fits so closely with that of the Baptists, or theirs with mine -- I will tell folks that I am a Baptist-flavored Christian.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by: Bill Gray

Hi Vic, 

I really love the way you Roman Catholics talk!  Do all of you talk that way in mass?  How about the priest-- does he talk this way also?   Wow, things sure have changed since I was in the Roman Catholic church.

_________

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black, isn’t it, Bill? What about the way you talk to us? What about your use of the Duh! word, implying that we’re all stupid?

Does your Pastor talk that way to people too? The Christians in Baptist church’s that I’ve been a part of in my life never treated people the way you do. Oops! I forgot…..you’re just a Pretend Christian!

 

You claim you don't remember my asking you any questions to answer? Here you go....4 questions you can answer. Are you up to it? That ball is in your court now, Billy.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:  Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,   My Friend, I searched a number of Bible translations, including the King James and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible -- and I could not find either Vicar of Christ or even Vicar.  If Peter was appointed by Christ to be the Vicar of Christ to the church -- don't you think that would be in the Bible?

 

I believe it is in the Bible you old fool, you semi-christians, make up your own religion as you go types couldn't understand the Bible at all if someone didn't hide half of it and declare the rest of it symbolic.   You keep on searching there, Billie Bloodclot, you might find something you old fart.





 

Hi Vic,

 

I really love the way you Roman Catholics talk!  Do all of you talk that way in mass?   How about the priest-- does he talk this way also?   Wow, things sure have changed since I was in the Roman Catholic church.

 

  What a sore loser you are, just like an old fart.

 

You tell me, "I believe it is in the Bible."   Does that mean that you hope it is in the Bible -- or that you think it is in the Bible, but, you are not sure -- or is that you way of declaring it is in the Bible -- but, you don't want to sound over confident? 

 

The words "I believe" should tip you off there billie bloodclot, anyway you've

never been inside a Catholic church

 

 

I suppose I should take it to mean that you have no idea if it is in the Bible or not -- but, the Vatican told you to say that -- and, by gum, you are going to say it -- regardless!

 

Whatever your tiny lying mind can come up with, be sure to stay on the

porch

 

As I said, I looked in both the King James Bible and the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible -- and could not find anywhere that it mention Peter the Vicar, Vicar of Rome, or just plain Vicar.  But, that is okay.  If the Vatican says it is there -- it must be hidden somewhere.   Vic, my Friend, if you EVER find ti -- let us know.

 

I found your Daddy chuck smith in the bible billie-je, it said heret...........

nevermind, not important

 

 

Hi Chick,

 

Maybe you and I have a different understanding of what constitutes an intelligent question, or even an question period.

 

You tell me, "You claim you don't remember my asking you any questions to answer?  Here you go....4 questions you can answer.  Are you up to it?  That ball is in your court now, Billy."

 

And, my Friend, I searched your post and could find no real questions, a couple of "What about that?" -- but, not one real question -- and most certainly, no intelligent questions.

 

My Friend, if you ever do come up with a real question -- please let me know.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Pooh & Piggy - Unfriended

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Pooh & Piggy - Unfriended
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

Maybe you and I have a different understanding of what constitutes an intelligent question, or even an question period.

You tell me, "You claim you don't remember my asking you any questions to answer?  Here you go....4 questions you can answer.  Are you up to it?  That ball is in your court now, Billy."

And, my Friend, I searched your post and could find no real questions, a couple of "What about that?" -- but, not one real question -- and most certainly, no intelligent questions.

My Friend, if you ever do come up with a real question -- please let me know.

Bill

________

You pompous ass!!! I knew you wouldn't answer my questions. You didn't fool me at all. You just showed everyone on here just how much of a coward you really are.

Hi Chick,

 

You wrote:

 

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black, isn’t it, BillWhat about the way you talk to usWhat about your use of the Duh! word, implying that we’re all stupid?  Does your Pastor talk that way to people too?  The Christians in Baptist church’s that I’ve been a part of in my life never treated people the way you do.  Oops! I forgot…..you’re just a Pretend Christian!

 

You claim you don't remember my asking you any questions to answer?  Here you go....4 questions you can answer.  Are you up to it?  That ball is in your court now, Billy.

 

Please show me any real questions in all that.  I have underlined the four sentences which end in question marks.  Are those what you consider questions which even warramt an answer?   Those aren't real questions -- just smart remarks.

 

As I said, ask serious questions, questions which really call for an answer -- and I will be happy to dialogue with you.  So far, you have not done this.

 

My Friend, I am ready whenever you are ready.  Let's have some serious dialogues.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

Please show me any real questions in all that. Are those what you consider questions which even warramt an answer?   Those aren't real questions -- just smart remarks.

As I said, ask serious questions, questions which really call for an answer -- and I will be happy to dialogue with you.  So far, you have not done this.

Let's have some serious dialogues.

Bill

______

Would I have asked the questions if I didn't want answers? It's all got to be on your terms, doesn't it, Bill? You're just like the bully on the playground that every school has.

You can't have a dialogue with anyone on this forum, much less a serious one.

I don't see any smart remarks at all in my post. You're the king in smart remarks, ask anyone here.

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:

One thing this thread proves without a doubt...Religion makes you stupid and hateful. No question about it.

_________

Sad, isn't it?

******************************

 

It is sad semi, because it isn't Religion, it's this forum, and when you

sign out, leave it all here, research your Religion with the people you know

in private life. who you know you can trust.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×