Skip to main content

Hi VP,

 

Once again, we know that the John 6 event happened in Capernaum.   Am I wrong when I say that  His last Passover, which occurred later, is where He instituted the Lord's Supper -- and that event happened in Jerusalem.

 

You keep saying, "But He used the same words."    That is true.  But, if I talk about Formula One race cars, using Indy 500 words -- does that mean that I am at the Indianapolis Speedway for the Indy 500?  Similarity of words is not the same as doing the event.

 

We both know that the Lord's Supper occurred in Jerusalem -- not Capernaum.  And, we both know that, in John 6, Jesus is speaking of Himself as spiritual Manna sent from God, once for all -- and comparing that to the physical Manna God sent to the Israelites in the wilderness.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by gbrk:

The ONLY caveat I will add here is that while I remain steadfast assured, by Scripture and God's promise, that my salvation is kept secure in the power of God's Holy Spirit the ONLY question and concern I have regarding this is when a person, individual, the Christian makes a heartfelt, mental and faithful decision to renounce their faith in Christ, denying Christ whether or not God and the Scriptures consider that as Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and potentially that Christian renounce and deny Christ once they have acknowledged Him.   I will only say in that regard I am still participating in personal study and prayer about that.  As a Christian, as a person who is effected and influenced by the Holy Spirit's ministry I cannot conceive of anyone having the assurance of the Holy Spirit then turning their back upon Christ.

While I very much could and rely upon the thought that the person never was Saved and reborn in the first place I do conceded there is room, in Scriptures, where the reference is to tasted the gifts of the Holy Spirit, to re-research ones initial stand.  As for external powers, Satan, demonic, sins committed etc I don't have any concern or doubts but only from the standpoint of when or IF the Christian willingly renounces Christ.  Since it's not my place to judge if they were saved in the first place my only thought regarding this condition is that the person involved puts themselves in very severe jeopardy  of physical death or extreme rebuke of the Father.

______

Take it from one that's been there. I was, beyond a shadow of a doubt, saved at one time. I chose to turn my back, to walk away from, God/Jesus, church, my Christian family, all of it. Just because you, Bill, & many more like you choose to believe in OSAS, doesn't make it so. I could give you many, many scriptures that speak against OSAS, but the people that believe in it, refuse to address those scriptures because all of you would be stepping in deep doo doo if you tried it.

None of you will tell me why you choose to believe that Bill Gray is saved when his words & behavior indicate the opposite. You will tell me I was never saved because I'm not saved now. But you refuse to say that Bill Gray isn't saved. There's scriptures in the Bible that speak of Bill & people like him, the evil that's within them. For instance, read 1 Peter 3:8-18. That's one of many. If that scripture doesn't describe Bill, show me one that tells you he's saved & a Christian. You can't, because there isn't one.

 

You say you cannot conceive of anyone ever having the assurance of the Holy Spirit & then turning their back upon Christ. I did it, I'm living proof. As you can say that, I can say that I cannot conceive of anyone believing that Bill is a Christian. There should be anger from Christians that anyone would lie/pretend to be something they're not, something you & other Christians consider to be Holy. But yet, most of you will ague/debate with him as though you consider him a Christian. Someone like Bill back in Jesus time would probably have been stoned to death for doing what he's doing.

You'll judge me as never having been saved, because I walked away but you refuse to judge people like Bill, that does damage to Christianity on a daily basis. Why is that exactly?

Semi I would not, as a professing Christian, and I hope I continue to remain true to that, judge anyone with respect to their personal salvation.  I realize that your question to me, regarding Bill, was a legitimate and real question and that you wanted an answer but I would be disingenuous unto myself to make that kind of judgment.  It is just not my place or any other Christian's place to make those kinds of judgments regarding our fellow humans.

 

True we all make personal judgments, unto ourselves, that's just human nature.  We can also, and I have, made statements on here where I felt one activity or another was not in keeping with what I believed Christ instruction unto us Christians was.  

 

The statement I made to Bill regarding the one area of a person willingly renouncing ones faith was just being honest with my own beliefs.  I'll be glad to explain, if you wish, my reasons for my belief that my Salvation is secure with regards to either not being in jeoprody account of an act, sin, or external power or comment on any specific scripture.  I realize you have made post and ask before but I have not tried to skip any or not reply to any so if there is any you wish me to respond to then ask again and I'll try to do so.  I also realize where OSAS or that term tends to appear a cop our or worse an insurance policy but I'm also not advocating that there is no adverse effects to a Christian who allows themselves to be controlled by their own inward sinful nature.

 

Bill should, as a professing Christian, if interested in witnessing and reaching others be concerned his own self about what his own actions are and how he is influencing others and how his own actions and methods represent Christ.  I as a fellow Christian can, and at times do, make suggestions and offer criticism when I believe that the cause of Christ is being harmed or other members are being harmed.   I believe I have also been consistent on here that where I believed Bill's approach was in error or wrong, or not in keeping with how a professing Christian should act toward others I have confronted him with it and explained my problems with it (the method or approach).  We have also disagreed on various interpretations of Scripture but yet and yes as for the interpretation and personal beliefs there are many things that we believer similarly.  I'm just trying to remain consistent in not being judgmental with regards to anyone's eternal state and that's in keeping with my own personal beliefs and convictions and why I don't violate them.  

 

I though hope and believe I have remained constant and consistent in not being judgmental regarding any or another forum members eternal state or standing with God for as before, and now, I acknowledge I cannot do that.  I do not have that gift, that power, that ability, and frankly believe it to be against the instruction of God unto His believers/people regarding our interactions with each other.  As for why I believe or acknowledge Bill to be saved it's because he has testified to and made the statement that He is and I accepted that on face value just as I have with every other forum member.  That does not mean I agree with all of his or their doctrines or what they type or how they carry themselves as a professing Christian but only that I, personally make no judgment about him or anyone else.  You state you are not saved and I also accept that.  While we (I) may have other suspicions about various of those on here I try and keep those to myself.  I also gauge myself and believe all Christians should against Galatians 5:22-25 for if a person is in fellowship with God's Holy Spirit then certain attributes (fruit) should be demonstrated in their lives.

 

Again regarding any scripture you wish to present me with, regarding our salvation or standing with God, I'll gladly respond and explain how I see it and what I believe about that scripture.  If you have done so in the past and I have not answered you I truly apologize for that error for it was not and is not intentional.  

 

 

Originally Posted by gbrk:

Semi I would not, as a professing Christian, and I hope I continue to remain true to that, judge anyone with respect to their personal salvation.  I realize that your question to me, regarding Bill, was a legitimate and real question and that you wanted an answer but I would be disingenuous unto myself to make that kind of judgment.  It is just not my place or any other Christian's place to make those kinds of judgments regarding our fellow humans. 

I as a fellow Christian can, and at times do, make suggestions and offer criticism when I believe that the cause of Christ is being harmed or other members are being harmed.

_________

You answered my question in the above post. If you didn't believe Bill to be a Christian you couldn't have called him a "fellow Christian". Amazing, but nuff said.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×