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I came across a show on TV a few days ago about Pope Francis. I’ve always found this man to be interesting so I decided to watch. I’m sure everyone saw the little boy that climbed the Vatican stage, stood at the Pope’s side & wondered around the stage last October. I was impressed that this man allowed the little boy to stay, even patting him on the head a couple of times, & didn’t force him away.

When first named Pope, & during his first speech to the people, he bowed & asked the people to pray for him, referring to himself as “their shepherd”. He ended that speech in a "Good night and sleep well”, in which these things were just never done by another Pope.

He made his home in an apartment suite instead of the vast Vatican palace used as the official papal residence without saying when, or even if, he would move into the papal residence. He has shunned much of the Vatican tradition by choosing simpler & less costly alternatives when it comes to his clothes and & his accessories. He has a no-frills lifestyle & his focus is on humility.

 He once told the people "Do not be men and women of sadness; a Christian can never be sad!" I’ve always had the idea that a Christian should be happy. I know some Christians that walk around like they’re miserable! He also mentioned that you can’t be a Christian part-time, that it should be full time. Most that I know are what I call Sunday/Wednesday Christians.

 

This Pope was criticized for washing & kissing the feet of two young women at a juvenile detention center. He was also criticized for embracing the disfigured, disabled & downtrodden, to any number of small acts of kindness.

Speaking to the ones that were offended, Francis made mention of the fact that Jesus washed the feet of his disciples on the eve of his crucifixion in a gesture of love. 

He said that people should help one another, that it’s what Jesus teaches. He said it’s what he does, & that he does it with his heart because it’s his duty. That as a priest & bishop, he must be at the people’s service. 

This man seems to be a natural, I see/hear no pretending in what he does/speaks. So many Christians these days talk the talk, there is no walk except what it takes to walk into a church. People like Bill Gray & Contendah despise the Catholic religion & what they stand for. They, and many “Christians” would do well to learn from Pope Francis.

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I haven't read where any of the Catholics here on the forum have said anything about their new Pope. Did I miss it? I have been wondering what their take on his views are.

 

It seems to go against many of their views they put out here on the forums. I wonder how they will reconcile their personal opinions and choices with what their Pope is teaching and asking them to do. 

 

 

Oh, I should also add that I like Pope Francis. Not because he is the Pope. He just seems like a really good human being. He cares about the poor and understands the need to help the less fortunate. 

 

He has made real efforts towards changing the way the church has dealt with social issues in the past. I can respect that. 

Originally Posted by Jankinonya:

Oh, I should also add that I like Pope Francis. Not because he is the Pope. He just seems like a really good human being. He cares about the poor and understands the need to help the less fortunate. 

He has made real efforts towards changing the way the church has dealt with social issues in the past. I can respect that. 

_______

I agree, & he seems very genuine. I too, would like to hear the opinions of him from our forum Catholics.

Hi all,

 

But, let's all keep in mind that, although the Pope appears to be a very good man -- HE IS STILL ONLY A MAN.

 

He is no more special than the leaders of other church organizations and denominations.  Pray that God will give him the insight to not only help folks around the world; but, that God will give him the insight to help more of his constituents find a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.  That is much more important than feeding or clothing a person. 

 

Feed and clothe a person so that his/her mind can be brought more readily to a saving knowledge of Christ.  Anyone who does that -- is a very special person, a Christian believer.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

1 John 4-10 - 1

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I like this new Pope. It seems he is trying to lead the Catholic Church away from the closed mindset it seems to have had (to an outsider), and back to the church trying to follow the teachings of Jesus and his message of love and compassion for the sick and poor. When I read the Bible, one recurring theme kept popping up , and to paraphrase, "you have ignored My widows and orphans. "

Maybe this guy will renew the Catholic Church and hopefully have an influence on the Protestant groups as well. However, I don't hold much hope for the Calvinist .

This song from the '60s pretty much covers what he is trying to un-do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyr1ZImFclc

Last edited by seeweed

Hi Seeweed,

 

If you will study the Bible -- you will find that it has one unified theme:  Salvation for mankind.

 

Yes, it teaches love, love of God and then love of our fellow man.  However, that "love" is to be used to help lead folks to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

You will notice in the Great Commission

 

Mat 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Acts 1:8, "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Mark 16:15, "And He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation.'"

 

Notice that He does not tell us to go into all the world and clothe and feed the people -- but, we are to go into all the world -- sharing His Gospel of Salvation.   In the process, it is a plus if we feed and clothe them -- but, that is not the main theme of the Bible, God's Written Word.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

1 John 5-13 - Bible Inspired By God

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Aaahhhh... Our resident troll is now preaching that caring for our fellow man is a secondary goal; and then, only if it leads to conversion to our resident troll's particular brand of salvation... I suspect we'll soon see him preaching that feeding our fellow man is a sin, because it will make him lazy and dependent on our aid... Now where have I heard this before! Ah yes, over there in the politics forum...

Sad... What a distorted view of the goodness of man and our kind, gentle and loving Jesus... Seems I read in the Bible that Jesus fed the hungry and clothed the poor... But the, according to our resident troll, I'm not a good Christian...

 

 

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where is all the replies for and against?  I think the man is a breath of fresh air in a historic organization.  If Obama came out for or against him, I bet the forum would light up with postings.

___

Well, considering that Francis has made some negative observations about capitalism, he might have reduced his popularity with some capitalistic Catholics or with others who seem to regard capitalism as something close akin to a sacrament.

Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where is all the replies for and against?  I think the man is a breath of fresh air in a historic organization.  If Obama came out for or against him, I bet the forum would light up with postings.

----------------------

Who do you want to comment? He's a pope. Who should be interested besides a catholic? Want a comment about obama and the pope? Will that make you happy? OK-it's none of obama's business so why would he come out "for or against" him?

Originally Posted by Contendah:
 

Well, considering that Francis has made some negative observations about capitalism, he might have reduced his popularity with some capitalistic Catholics or with others who seem to regard capitalism as something close akin to a sacrament.

---------------------------

Care to provide a quote re: capitalism.

 

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
 

Well, considering that Francis has made some negative observations about capitalism, he might have reduced his popularity with some capitalistic Catholics or with others who seem to regard capitalism as something close akin to a sacrament.

---------------------------

Care to provide a quote re: capitalism.

 

Delighted to do so.  For your reading pleasure:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...m-ine_n_2392653.html

 

http://gawker.com/here-are-11-...pe-franci-1471888334

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229164

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201...ew-policy-statement/

 

FIE on CAPITALISM!!

 

Pope Francis [AFP)

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
 

Well, considering that Francis has made some negative observations about capitalism, he might have reduced his popularity with some capitalistic Catholics or with others who seem to regard capitalism as something close akin to a sacrament.

---------------------------

Care to provide a quote re: capitalism.

 

Delighted to do so.  For your reading pleasure:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...m-ine_n_2392653.html

 

http://gawker.com/here-are-11-...pe-franci-1471888334

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229164

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201...ew-policy-statement/

 

Well, I went to the links you provided and, of course each of the headlines were distorted and inflammatory. Most of the body of the articles however seemed accurate, though needing some more research to compare translations/interpretations...

 

I didn't see anything outright "anti-capitalistic" in general... What I did read was opposition to the tyranny of a capitalism of greed... a brief clip of CNBC's report:

 

CNBC's Eamon Javers reports that Pope Francis has targeted capitalism in his new papal proclamation, calling unfettered capitalism the "new tyranny."

He also called on rich people to share their wealth. "Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to sa***uard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," Francis wrote in the document issued on Tuesday.

"How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?"

 

And from Gawker.com:

 

1. "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion."

2. "Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape."

3. "Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a 'disposable' culture which is now spreading. I no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new."

4. "[S]ome people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system."

5. "Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people's pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else's responsibility and not our own."

6. "The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us."

7. "While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control."

8. "In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule."

9. "Money must serve, not rule! The Pope loves everyone, rich and poor alike, but he is obliged in the name of Christ to remind all that the rich must help, respect and promote the poor. I exhort you to generous solidarity and a return of economics and finance to an ethical approach which favours human beings."

10. "Today in many places we hear a call for greater security. But until exclusion and inequality in society and between peoples is reversed, it will be impossible to eliminate violence."

 

I'm not sure if you disagree with these comments... If so, what is the nature of your disagreement... The comments might well have been made by Teddy Roosevelt or JFK... Or even by Ronald Reagan...

 

Surely they are among the tenets that are laid down in the Bible and that I try to live by...

 

Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
 

Well, considering that Francis has made some negative observations about capitalism, he might have reduced his popularity with some capitalistic Catholics or with others who seem to regard capitalism as something close akin to a sacrament.

---------------------------

Care to provide a quote re: capitalism.

 

Delighted to do so.  For your reading pleasure:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...m-ine_n_2392653.html

 

http://gawker.com/here-are-11-...pe-franci-1471888334

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229164

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201...ew-policy-statement/

 

Well, I went to the links you provided and, of course each of the headlines were distorted and inflammatory. Most of the body of the articles however seemed accurate, though needing some more research to compare translations/interpretations...

 

I didn't see anything outright "anti-capitalistic" in general... What I did read was opposition to the tyranny of a capitalism of greed... a brief clip of CNBC's report:

 

CNBC's Eamon Javers reports that Pope Francis has targeted capitalism in his new papal proclamation, calling unfettered capitalism the "new tyranny."

He also called on rich people to share their wealth. "Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to sa***uard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," Francis wrote in the document issued on Tuesday.

"How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses 2 points?"

 

And from Gawker.com:

 

1. "How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion."

2. "Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape."

3. "Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a 'disposable' culture which is now spreading. I no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new."

4. "[S]ome people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system."

5. "Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people's pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else's responsibility and not our own."

6. "The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us."

7. "While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control."

8. "In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule."

9. "Money must serve, not rule! The Pope loves everyone, rich and poor alike, but he is obliged in the name of Christ to remind all that the rich must help, respect and promote the poor. I exhort you to generous solidarity and a return of economics and finance to an ethical approach which favours human beings."

10. "Today in many places we hear a call for greater security. But until exclusion and inequality in society and between peoples is reversed, it will be impossible to eliminate violence."

 

I'm not sure if you disagree with these comments... If so, what is the nature of your disagreement... The comments might well have been made by Teddy Roosevelt or JFK... Or even by Ronald Reagan...

 

Surely they are among the tenets that are laid down in the Bible and that I try to live

by. 

____

Give me a break!  Do you really believe that Ronald Reagan would say "Amen" to THESE statements from the Pope?

 

"[S]ome people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system." 

 

"While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control."

 

Last edited by Contendah
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where is all the replies for and against?  I think the man is a breath of fresh air in a historic organization.  If Obama came out for or against him, I bet the forum would light up with postings.

----------------------

Who do you want to comment? He's a pope. Who should be interested besides a catholic? Want a comment about obama and the pope? Will that make you happy? OK-it's none of obama's business so why would he come out "for or against" him?

___

You ask, "Who should be interested besides a Catholic"?

 

Help for the naive:

 

The Pope presides from the Vatican.  The Vatican is not only the HQ of the Roman Catholic Church; it is also a POLITICAL STATE--one to which the U.S. has sent diplomatic representatives for decades.

 

As the CEO of both a POLITICAL STATE and a very large church, the Pope wields considerable influence for good or evil across a broad spectrum of human activity , and he wields it INTERNATIONALLY, and it potentially affects not only Catholics, but persons of other religious beliefs and persons--such as YOU--with zero religious beliefs.

 

He ain't your guy, but you should watch him!.

 

 

Originally Posted by House of David:
Pope is not anti-capitalism.  He was talking about unfettered capitalism.  There is a difference.

___

Capitalism, in this nation, contends for as much "unfettering" as it can get.  It doesn't get total "unfetterment", but it gets enough to make it dangerous in certain contexts.  Were you around in early 2009?

HOD, the comments he has made against capitalism, caring for the poor, and corporate greed are the things I was referring to. There are a couple of Catholics on here that have attacked some of us liberals for saying the exact same things the Pope is saying. Yet, they have been completely silent on what he has said. 

 

I like him. He has been the Pope for a year now and I think he has already done more to improve the Church and the Vatican than the two previous ones did in all their time as Popes. 

 

 

Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where is all the replies for and against?  I think the man is a breath of fresh air in a historic organization.  If Obama came out for or against him, I bet the forum would light up with postings.

----------------------

Who do you want to comment? He's a pope. Who should be interested besides a catholic? Want a comment about obama and the pope? Will that make you happy? OK-it's none of obama's business so why would he come out "for or against" him?

___

You ask, "Who should be interested besides a Catholic"?

 

Help for the naive:

 

The Pope presides from the Vatican.  The Vatican is not only the HQ of the Roman Catholic Church; it is also a POLITICAL STATE--one to which the U.S. has sent diplomatic representatives for decades.

 

As the CEO of both a POLITICAL STATE and a very large church, the Pope wields considerable influence for good or evil across a broad spectrum of human activity , and he wields it INTERNATIONALLY, and it potentially affects not only Catholics, but persons of other religious beliefs and persons--such as YOU--with zero religious beliefs.

 

He ain't your guy, but you should watch him!.

 

 

Why not just tell me why I should "watch him"? So, he has political power. So what? All of you do. All of you use religion in politics. Too, a curious amount of catholics are democrats.

 

 

I'm not sure if you disagree with these comments... If so, what is the nature of your disagreement... The comments might well have been made by Teddy Roosevelt or JFK... Or even by Ronald Reagan...

 

Surely they are among the tenets that are laid down in the Bible and that I try to live by...

 

____________________

 

I don't disagree with any of what the Pope said in the statements you posted. I only disagree that Reagan would have said any of those things. 

 

I don't follow or live by the bible, I don't need it to know what is right and wrong. What the Pope is saying is echoed by many that don't feel this way because the bible tells them to be kind and help those less fortunate, to not take advantage of the weak, to not shrug off our responsibilities to society. We feel this way because its right and its the only way we will prosper and grow as a society. 

 

I hope he is successful in teaching more Christians to be compassionate and caring about their fellow human beings. I hope his message can help turn some things around before its too late. I don't care if he is a Catholic, Jew, or JW.. If he is speaking the truth and trying to help people in need then I will support him in that effort.  

 

His religious dogma...he can keep. You don't have to do good because Jesus told you to you can do good because it is the right thing to do for a happy, healthy and compassionate society. Of course if the only way some people can be good and caring is because they fear their god will punish them if they don't, then I guess I do prefer they keep on believing than to stop believing and start harming.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by Contendah:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by jtdavis:

Where is all the replies for and against?  I think the man is a breath of fresh air in a historic organization.  If Obama came out for or against him, I bet the forum would light up with postings.

----------------------

Who do you want to comment? He's a pope. Who should be interested besides a catholic? Want a comment about obama and the pope? Will that make you happy? OK-it's none of obama's business so why would he come out "for or against" him?

___

You ask, "Who should be interested besides a Catholic"?

 

Help for the naive:

 

The Pope presides from the Vatican.  The Vatican is not only the HQ of the Roman Catholic Church; it is also a POLITICAL STATE--one to which the U.S. has sent diplomatic representatives for decades.

 

As the CEO of both a POLITICAL STATE and a very large church, the Pope wields considerable influence for good or evil across a broad spectrum of human activity , and he wields it INTERNATIONALLY, and it potentially affects not only Catholics, but persons of other religious beliefs and persons--such as YOU--with zero religious beliefs.

 

He ain't your guy, but you should watch him!.

 

 

Why not just tell me why I should "watch him"? So, he has political power. So what? All of you do. All of you use religion in politics. Too, a curious amount of catholics are democrats.

___

You seem to do a  lot of watching of other religious figures and subjects.  Whatever your reasons for that should be ample to engage your interest in the Pope and what he has to say.  It would be strange of you to ignore him, given all you have to say on the subjects of religion and politics.

You seem to do a  lot of watching of other religious figures and subjects.  Whatever your reasons for that should be ample to engage your interest in the Pope and what he has to say.  It would be strange of you to ignore him, given all you have to say on the subjects of religion and politics.

 

======================

A lot of watching other religious figures? Such as? Name ONE I "watch" a lot.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
 

 

Why not just tell me why I should "watch him"? So, he has political power. So what? All of you do. All of you use religion in politics. Too, a curious amount of catholics are democrats.

________________________

 

I believe Best has me on ignore, so maybe one of you that she hasn't put on block yet could quote this for her.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/...ope-francis/6373779/

 

WASHINGTON — House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, extended a formal and open invitation Thursday to Pope Francis to address a joint meeting of Congress.

If the pontiff accepts, it would be unprecedented. No pope or religious leader that serves as a head of state has ever addressed Congress, according to the U.S. House Historian's office.

"His address as a visiting head of state before a joint meeting of the House and Senate would honor our nation in keeping with the best traditions of our democratic institutions," Boehner said in a statement. " It would also offer an excellent opportunity for the American people as well as the nations of the world to hear his message in full."

Boehner, who is Catholic, said Pope Francis has inspired millions of Americans with his "pastoral manner and servant leadership" to reflect on matters of human dignity, freedom and social justice.

"These principles are among the fundamentals of the American idea," Boehner said, "and though our nation sometimes fails to live up to these principles, at our best, we give them new life as we seek the common good."

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., also a Catholic, said she joined welcoming Pope Francis to address Congress. Pelosi attended his inauguration at the Vatican and praised him as "a moral force."

Thursday marks one year since the papal conclave elected Pope Francis, born Jorge Mario Bergoglio, after the resignation of Pope Benedict.

Francis marked the occasion on his @Pontifex Twitter account with a simple message to his 3.7 million followers: "Please pray for me."

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

You seem to do a  lot of watching of other religious figures and subjects.  Whatever your reasons for that should be ample to engage your interest in the Pope and what he has to say.  It would be strange of you to ignore him, given all you have to say on the subjects of religion and politics.

 

======================

A lot of watching other religious figures? Such as? Name ONE I "watch" a lot.

__________________

 

You seem pretty obsessed with Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jesse Jackson, and Pastor Jerimiah Wright. There, I named THREE.  

 

 

 

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