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Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

In the CoC, prayers seem to always contain that caveat: 'let Thy will be done; if it is HIS will, etc. To me, saying that sounds like a 'cop out'....almost as if the one praying KNOWS, or doesn't expect, the prayer to be answered. Am I wrong?

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I don't think you're wrong, I agree with you. Some Baptist use that "Thy will be done; if it is HIS will" too.  It’s all a Christian has when you ask why a prayer wasn’t answered.

lexum throws that scripture out there “thy will be done” as though that explains it all but it doesn’t. I can give scripture that indicates prayers will be answered. It’s as you said, it’s a cop out.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

The person I am praying for isn't sick. This person is simply in an extremely stressful situation

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Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Stress can make a person sick at heart.

I'm curious, Dog, do you know if prayer works?

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Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
I was raised in the CoC. As such, I was taught that miracles ceased with the death of the last disciple. However, I considered ANSWERED prayers to be miracles. In so doing, I am defying/denying what I wa raised to believe, I guess. I HAVE had prayers answered, but not recently...at least not to my knowledge. Maybe I'm, as stated in the beginning, lacking faith.

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Check your PM's.

Originally Posted by lexum:

Matt. 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Christ prayed these words.

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"Saying, Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done."

 

People tend to take your scripture & the above out of context. Jesus was actually asking God to change God’s plan for His life. He knew He was sent to die on the cross & he was asking God to change it. That’s the reason He prayed nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote:  Originally Posted by lexum:

Matt. 26:42 (kjv), "He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done."  Christ prayed these words.

"Saying, Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done."   Luke 22:42 (kjv)

 

People tend to take your scripture & the above out of context. Jesus was actually asking God to change God’s plan for His life.  He knew He was sent to die on the cross & he was asking God to change it. That’s the reason He prayed nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.


Hi Chick,

 

While you and Lexum have quoted different Scripture verses (his from Matthew, yours from Luke) -- they both say the same.   Chick, you are right that Jesus Christ did ask to not have to endure the pain and humiliation of the cross.  In His divine nature, He knew what He would endure for us.  Yet, in His human nature, like us, He would avoid such pain and suffering if He could.  No human wants to suffer such pain.  Yet, in His divine nature, as preexisting deity, He knew that only His suffering and death could pay man's sin debt to a righteous God -- and He was willing to to that for you and for me.

 

He knew that only through His suffering could all mankind be offered a "full pardon" for our inherited Adamic sin nature -- and only through Him and His suffering could we choose to be covered with His righteousness before the perfect justice of a perfect God.   He did this for you and for me.   How could I ever refuse to follow Him?  How can you?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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AND, if God said "no" to his son whom He loved so much, why in the world would I ever be angry or hurt if He says "no" to me? Look at all the horrible suffering Jesus had to go through! And yet, not only did God's will prevail, but the ultimate outcome was the greatest thing that has ever happened! So when He tells me "no", I can rest assured that the final outcome will be better than anything I prayed for.

O No, Jesus was praying contrary to the known will of God. You kind of got away from the subject I was referring to the scripture lexum quoted, “thy will be done”.

Can any of you show me where in the Bible it says that we are to always pray “if it be thy will”? It's not there.

Why would anyone ask God something & then tack on, "If it be Thy will"? Is that really even a prayer? It sounds like we are saying, "God just do what you were already going to do anyway. I don't want to impose on you. Your will be done."

 

I think that lots of times people pray "If it be Thy will," because they're trying to cover themselves. I believe it's because they don't want to look foolish if the prayer isn't answered.

 

1 John 5:14-15 says: “And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him”.

 

How can we know we have the petitions that we desired of him if we never know his will? It’s obvious that we can know his will, otherwise, we could have no confidence that our prayer would be answered. If we know His will & pray according to that known will, then we can have confidence that we will receive what we pray for.

 

Some doctrines obliterate the prayer of faith. If you must always pray without knowing if God will answer your prayer, how can you have a prayer of faith?

 

James 4:2-3 says: "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts".

John 14:12 says: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father".

 

A selfish prayer is contrary to God’s will. It’s not selfish to ask God for a healing if you’re a Christian whose life is devoted to following Him.

If you don’t know that God will answer a prayer, then how can you have faith? Where is it?

 

 

 

Semi, Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer as an example of how we should pray. And in that prayer are the words, "They will be done", so yes, it IS in the Bible that we should pray that way. That prayer goes on to ask Him to feed us this day, and to forgive us our trespasses. It asks Him to deliver us from evil. Those are all things that we ask IN ACCORDANCE TO HIS WILL.

 

So when I am praying for a friend, I DO ask Him to do His will. I also let Him know what MY wishes are, so that IF it is His will, He may grant those wishes. And if it is NOT his will, He will know what it is I need in order to accept that will and make peace with it.

 

Like I said, I trust Him so much, and know that He has answers that my puny human mind could never grasp, so that WHATEVER his will is, I know it will be for the best in the long run.

 

That Jesus asked to be delivered from His ordeal only shows that He was HUMAN. It was His human nature that asked, because human nature is afraid of suffering. To me, that shows that God knows our fears and our desires. He knows what is in our hearts. So if WE have to suffer to fullfil His will, He will grant us comfort and understanding to help us get through.

 

And face it, suffering IS part of living on this Earth. If it were not, we would already be in Heaven.

 

In this verse you quoted:

1 John 5:14-15 says: “And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him”.

 

I think you bolded the wrong part. I would have bolded "according to His will". If we pray the way Jesus taught us to, with "Thy will be done" as part of the prayer, we DON'T have to know His will. We only have to admit to ourselves that His will is the RIGHT thing, and that means that whatever we ask, it WILL be granted to us, because we are asking that His will be done. And I have faith that He loves me enough that, if what I am asking doesn't CHANGE what He would have done anyway according to His will, then He will grant it. If what I am asking WOULD change things so that His will wouldn't be accomplished, then my answer is going to be "no", but it will be accompanied by comfort and understanding.

 

So to me, asking that His will be done in any situation is the right way to pray. And I DO know that He will grant my prayer by doing His will. And because I prayed about it, I will be at peace with whatever happens.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

I was taught that miracles ceased with the death of the last disciple.

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Did you mean Apostle? Anyone that follows Christ is a disciple.

Duh..... Yeah. Oops?

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The death of the last Apostle was by no means the death of miracles.

 

Why would God stop working and communicating with the people he had just

started to convert and the importance of growth in his church.

 

Why do people still dictate to God what he can and can not do concerning

HIS people? Jesus employs whoever in heaven necessary for a certain

or whatever task that he wants done. Everyday, all day. miracles included.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

I was taught that miracles ceased with the death of the last disciple.

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Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Did you mean Apostle? Anyone that follows Christ is a disciple.

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Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Duh..... Yeah. Oops?

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Who did Paul receive the gift of the Holy Spirit & healing from? Paul did not receive it from other Apostles or thru Jesus. He received it from a man called Ananias, read Acts 9:17-18.  

Jesus promised that those who believed & were baptized would have signs (miracles) to accompany or follow them. It is grammatically impossible to misconstrue Jesus' words to mean the apostles in that text. Jesus (first person) was speaking to the apostles (second person) about those who believed (third person) the apostles' teachings. The signs would follow those who believed (third person) hence, disciples made by the apostles' preaching.

 

Originally Posted by O No!:

Semi, Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer as an example of how we should pray. And in that prayer are the words, "They will be done", so yes, it IS in the Bible that we should pray that way. That prayer goes on to ask Him to feed us this day, and to forgive us our trespasses. It asks Him to deliver us from evil. Those are all things that we ask IN ACCORDANCE TO HIS WILL.

 

So when I am praying for a friend, I DO ask Him to do His will. I also let Him know what MY wishes are, so that IF it is His will, He may grant those wishes. And if it is NOT his will, He will know what it is I need in order to accept that will and make peace with it.

 

Like I said, I trust Him so much, and know that He has answers that my puny human mind could never grasp, so that WHATEVER his will is, I know it will be for the best in the long run.

 

That Jesus asked to be delivered from His ordeal only shows that He was HUMAN. It was His human nature that asked, because human nature is afraid of suffering. To me, that shows that God knows our fears and our desires. He knows what is in our hearts. So if WE have to suffer to fullfil His will, He will grant us comfort and understanding to help us get through.

 

And face it, suffering IS part of living on this Earth. If it were not, we would already be in Heaven.

 

In this verse you quoted:

1 John 5:14-15 says: “And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him”.

 

I think you bolded the wrong part. I would have bolded "according to His will". If we pray the way Jesus taught us to, with "Thy will be done" as part of the prayer, we DON'T have to know His will. We only have to admit to ourselves that His will is the RIGHT thing, and that means that whatever we ask, it WILL be granted to us, because we are asking that His will be done. And I have faith that He loves me enough that, if what I am asking doesn't CHANGE what He would have done anyway according to His will, then He will grant it. If what I am asking WOULD change things so that His will wouldn't be accomplished, then my answer is going to be "no", but it will be accompanied by comfort and understanding.

 

So to me, asking that His will be done in any situation is the right way to pray. And I DO know that He will grant my prayer by doing His will. And because I prayed about it, I will be at peace with whatever happens.

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Jesus didn’t tell us to pray every prayer with "Thy will be done". I still don’t think you will find it in the Bible where he says that we are to do that. If what you believe is true, then how can you explain Mark 11:24, where Jesus said “Therefore I say to you, What things soever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.”

 

He said Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Praying God’s will to be done on earth is not the same as asking if it be thy will in every prayer request.

 

Do we ask God to forgive us our trespasses if it be thy will? No, you already know the will of God on this matter. Do we ask him to give us our daily bread if it be thy will? No, you already know the will of God on this matter. When we ask & already know His will on a matter, then you can pray a prayer of faith, knowing you will receive what you pray for.

 

No, my dear friend, I bolded the correct part. If you don’t know your prayer will be answered & you don’t know you will receive what you ask for, then there is no such thing as a prayer of faith.

 

If you ask that His will be done in any situation, again, explain Mark 11:24 to me.

 

You said we DON'T have to know His will, but yet according to the Bible we can know His will as in Ephesians 5:17: “Why be you not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is”.

I love you, my sweet friend!!

quote:   Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

I know....one must have FAITH.  I also am well aware that God seldom 'works' as we expect.  But how does someone of weak faith overcome their doubts re: prayer?


Hi DogSoldier,

 

In my new discussion titled "Prayer - How Can We Know That God Hears AND Answers?" -- I have tried to answer your question for those on this thread and for all other Religion Forum readers who may not open this thread.  I pray that it answered your question sufficiently.  If not, let's talk more.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi DogSoldier,

In my new discussion titled "Prayer - How Can We Know That God Hears AND Answers?" -- I have tried to answer your question for those on this thread and for all other Religion Forum readers who may not open this thread.  

Bill

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Who may not open this thread? Seems to be going fine to me.

Hi Chick,

 

In 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 the apostle Paul tells us, "Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus."   And when you pray, do so in the name of Jesus Christ for he is the only door through which our prayers get to the Father.  "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"  (1 Timothy 2:5).

Jesus also tells us, "And whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it"  (John 14:13,14).  Does this mean, as the "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity preachers declare, that if we ask for a Rolls Royce, God will provide it?  NO!  God Himself tells us in Scripture, "And this is the confidence which we  have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us" (1 John 5:14).   And, He will answer according to His will.

Jesus gives us the best example of praying according to the will of the Father when, in the Garden of Gethsemane, He prayed,  "Father, if Thou art willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Thine be done" (Luke 22:42).

 

So, this all tells me that Jesus Christ prayed that God the Father's will be done.  And, if it is good enough for Jesus Christ -- it is good enough for me.   God does not promise to give us material wealth in this life.  Nor does He promise that we will not have trials and tribulations in this life. 

 

According to His will -- means that we are in spiritual accord with Him in what we ask.  And, those things prayed for, in accord with His will -- He WILL give us.  And, that is His promise of eternal life in Christ, in the eternal presence of God.  What more could ANYONE ask?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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quote:   Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
The death of the last Apostle was by no means the death of miracles.  Why would God stop working and communicating with the people he had just started to convert and the importance of growth in his church.  Why do people still dictate to God what he can and can not do concerning HIS people? Jesus employs whoever in heaven necessary for a certain or whatever task that he wants done.  Everyday, all day. miracles included.

Hi Vic,

 

I agree with you completely!  We see miracles all around us -- every day.  Every child born is a miracle of God.  All creation is a miracle of God -- trees growing, beautiful flowers, rainbows, etc.  God's miracles surround us -- all the time.

 

And, the greatest miracles are -- ANSWERED PRAYERS!   Prayers of healing; prayers of provision; prayers of blessings; prayers of protection for our families and other loved ones.  

 

I pray so many times each day -- thanking God for this beautiful day; thanking God for my family and the blessings of health He has given to them; thanking God that all my family -- from the little ones to we who are a wee bit more mature -- are all Christian believers, followers of Christ. 

 

And, every time my wife or a family member drives away -- I always pray them off -- asking God to protect them and bring them home safely.

 

Yes, He is a God of miracles!  And, those miracles have not, and will not, cease.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

I know....one must have FAITH.  I also am well aware that God seldom 'works' as we expect.  But how does someone of weak faith overcome their doubts re: prayer?


Hi DogSoldier,

 

In my new discussion titled "Prayer - How Can We Know That God Hears AND Answers?" -- I have tried to answer your question for those on this thread and for all other Religion Forum readers who may not open this thread.  I pray that it answered your question sufficiently.  If not, let's talk more.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Bill you have done it again. You have started another thread to make dogs good idea look like your idea. We are all involved in this thread, including yourself and it is doing well.

       Delete your thread and save it for your personal ministry. Don’t start threads to make your e-mail ministry think you have all the answers.  It’s so obvious what you are doing that it makes your influence here a negative one. Quit it!

Originally Posted by lexum:

Bill you have done it again. You have started another thread to make dogs good idea look like your idea. We are all involved in this thread, including yourself and it is doing well.

       Delete your thread and save it for your personal ministry. Don’t start threads to make your e-mail ministry think you have all the answers.  It’s so obvious what you are doing that it makes your influence here a negative one. Quit it!

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Great post!!!   

Hi Semi!

 

22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26] [g]

 

I think the verses before and after Mark 11:24 give a more complete picture. Not only do we have to ask, but we must have no doubts whatsoever. Now, tell me honestly, when you have prayed for things you thought were impossible, or even unlikely, were you absolutely SURE you would get what you asked for? Or were you worried that you might not get it? WORRY, is a form of doubt. If you truly believed, you wouldn't HAVE to worry, right?

 

You said, "Jesus didn’t tell us to pray every prayer with "Thy will be done". I still don’t think you will find it in the Bible where he says that we are to do that."

 

But He DID tell us that is how we should pray! When I tell a student that they need to put their fingers close to the fret in order to get a clear sound, I don't mean SOMETIMES. If I tell them "This is how you should place your fingers when you play", I mean ALWAYS do it like this.

 

You say, "He said Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Praying God’s will to be done on earth is not the same as asking if it be thy will in every prayer request."

 

Semi, if we pray, "Thy will be done on earth", well, earth is where we live, so we are asking that His will be done where we live, and always. So it would be silly and couterproductive to ask that an exception be made in the case of our request. He made it pretty clear that we are to ask in FAITH, and if we have faith, then we have faith in His will.

 

And yes, we ask Him to feed us and forgive us because we know it is His will that we have what we need. In Matthew 6, He tells us that God already KNOWS what we need. If we ask in faith, and according to His will, we will get it.

 

I don't know the mind of God, but if I were to GUESS what His will is for us, I think it would involve love. He wants us to love Him and each other. And He wants ALL of His children to be saved. So I would think that if a request were denied, it would be either because we didn't have enough faith, and showed it by worrying or trying to make contingency plans, or because if we got our request, the chain of events arising from it might mean that someone, or maybe a buch of someones, might miss out on the words or event that would bring them to God.

 

Think about it. Our lives are so complicated and intertwined. If the flapping of a butterfly's wing can case a breeze that will eventually become a hurricane, how much more do our words ands actions change society, and more importantly, individuals in that society? I can look back on things that have happened to me that have changed my life, and I'm sure the people involved in some of them have no idea that the words they said would have such an effect on me. So when I don't get what I want, I think it just MIGHT be because in denying my request, God has saved some souls that might not otherwise have been saved. Just a guess, but one that satisfies me.

 

 

 

 

“Think about it. Our lives are so complicated and intertwined. If the flapping of a butterfly's wing can case a breeze that will eventually become a hurricane, how much more do our words ands actions change society, and more importantly, individuals in that society? I can look back on things that have happened to me that have changed my life, and I'm sure the people involved in some of them have no idea that the words they said would have such an effect on me. So when I don't get what I want, I think it just MIGHT be because in denying my request, God has saved some souls that might not otherwise have been saved. Just a guess, but one that satisfies me.” [so true so true Ono]

 

 

          David Bohn said it best:

         Thought as a System

Bohm was alarmed by what he considered an increasing imbalance of not only man and nature, but among peoples, as well as people, themselves. Bohm: "So one begins to wonder what is going to happen to the human race. Technology keeps on advancing with greater and greater power, either for good or for destruction." He goes on to ask:

What is the source of all this trouble? I'm saying that the source is basically in thought. Many people would think that such a statement is crazy, because thought is the one thing we have with which to solve our problems. That's part of our tradition. Yet it looks as if the thing we use to solve our problems with is the source of our problems. It's like going to the doctor and having him make you ill. In fact, in 20% of medical cases we do apparently have that going on. But in the case of thought, it's far over 20%.

In Bohm's view:

...the general tacit assumption in thought is that it's just telling you the way things are and that it's not doing anything - that 'you' are inside there, deciding what to do with the info. But you don't decide what to do with the info. Thought runs you. Thought, however, gives false info that you are running it, that you are the one who controls thought. Whereas actually thought is the one which controls each one of us. Thought is creating divisions out of itself and then saying that they are there naturally. This is another major feature of thought: Thought doesn't know it is doing something and then it struggles against what it is doing. It doesn't want to know that it is doing it. And thought struggles against the results, trying to avoid those unpleasant results while keeping on with that way of thinking. That is what I call "sustained incoherence".

Bohm thus proposes in his book, Thought as a System, a pervasive, systematic nature of thought:

What I mean by "thought" is the whole thing - thought, felt, the body, the whole society sharing thoughts - it's all one process. It is essential for me not to break that up, because it's all one process; somebody else's thoughts becomes my thoughts, and vice versa. Therefore it would be wrong and misleading to break it up into my thoughts, your thoughts, my feelings, these feelings, those feelings... I would say that thought makes what is often called in modern language a system. A system means a set of connected things or parts. But the way people commonly use the word nowadays it means something all of whose parts are mutually interdependent - not only for their mutual action, but for their meaning and for their existence. A corporation is organized as a system - it has this department, that department, that department. They don't have any meaning separately; they only can function together. And also the body is a system. Society is a system in some sense. And so on. Similarly, thought is a system. That system not only includes thoughts, "felts" and feelings, but it includes the state of the body; it includes the whole of society - as thought is passing back and forth between people in a process by which thought evolved from ancient times. A system is constantly engaged in a process of development, change, evolution and structure changes...although there are certain features of the system which become relatively fixed. We call this the structure.... Thought has been constantly evolving and we can't say when that structure began. But with the growth of civilization it has developed a great deal. It was probably very simple thought before civilization, and now it has become very complex and ramified and has much more incoherence than before. Now, I say that this system has a fault in it - a "systematic fault". It is not a fault here, there or here, but it is a fault that is all throughout the system. Can you picture that? It is everywhere and nowhere. You may say "I see a problem here, so I will bring my thoughts to bear on this problem". But "my" thought is part of the system. It has the same fault as the fault I'm trying to look at, or a similar fault. Thought is constantly creating problems that way and then trying to solve them. But as it tries to solve them it makes it worse because it doesn’t notice that it's creating them, and the more it thinks, the more problems it creates. (P. 18-19)

 

 

Crust-0-matic, is it possible that too much sin in the world keeps God from bumping up blessings to allow science the knowledge to replace amp you ta ted limbs? It took a while for some medical cures.

          I would suggest for a Godly universe rather that enabling our atheist brethren.

       They seem to consider your offerings or maybe they are just luring close-enough to snatch you through the cage.

O No, I don't think you uderstand what I'm trying to say. Of course we should want God's will to be done. But isn't it his will for us to pray in faith, truly believing that what we ask for we will recieve? We should not pray for things that are contrary to God's will and then expect God to grant our request. However, we should know many things that are in God's will. For those things we shouldn't question if it is God's will to answer our prayer. Praying for something we know to be God's will, and then ending the prayer with "if it be thy will" is putting a questionable doubt as to whether you believe your prayer will be anwered or not. Praying thy will to be done is not the exact words for us to pray every time we pray. His was a model of prayer, not an exact wording on how we should pray. If you believe you should pray thy will be done in every prayer, then you must also pray give me this day my daily bread in every prayer. Jesus was not giving us a word for word prayer to pray every time. He was giving us an example of the overall expectancy we should have toward God in our prayers.

 

Yes, I have prayed for something & was absolutely SURE I would get what I asked for, no worry entered my mind. A pastor's wife, & many ladies in the same church, knew what I was praying for & confirmed that God was going to do a healing. Can you imagine the shock I experienced when my prayer wasn't answered? I stood on the very scriptures He gave me.

 

I'm curious where you heard that the flapping of a butterfly's wing can cause a breeze that will eventually become a hurricane?

 

 

I'm not sure where I heard the butterfly thing first. Probably in a science fiction book. But here's a link that explains it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

 

I guess this is another one of those times we'll have to agree to disagree. To ME, asking that God's will be done in all things is the right way to pray. And it's only polite to ask "if it be your will". It's no different from when I was a little kid and was tired enough to want to go to bed early. I'd tell my folks, "I'm going to bed now if it's OK with you." Of COURSE I knew it would be OK with them, but out of respect, I added that "if it's OK with you", because even though I knew that they loved me and wanted me to get some rest, it was their house, and they were in charge.

 

And like I said, if it is NOT his will, then I believe something good will come of it. When my husband was dying, I prayed. I prayed and prayed some more. I never asked that His will be done. I BEGGED Him to spare my husband's life. I told Him I couldn't live without my husband. I begged Him to take me instead. I promised all sorts of things. I tried to bargain with God. I screamed at Him. I cried and cried.

 

And my husband died anyway.

 

I'm not sure who was saved because he died. Maybe someone at the funeral was touched by God that day. Maybe one of the guys he worked with started thinking and discovered that God had been knocking on the door of his heart. Or maybe I'm full of it and that wasn't the reason at all. But I DO know that God's will is always right, and once I accepted that, the peace flowed in. Now I am able to just be thankful that I had him while I did, and that because of his love, I am a better person. He will always be with me, and I can carry on because I know I will see him again one day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Dog, I'm sorry that I have hijacked your topic & gotten away from your question.

Not a problem. I''ve been pondering some of what has been said here and have concluded (right or wrong) that until my faith is '....as that of a child's', I shouldn't expect any of my prayers to be answered. Any of my prayers that ARE answered will be done so by God's grace....not by the strength of my faith.

Originally Posted by O No!:

I'm not sure where I heard the butterfly thing first. Probably in a science fiction book. But here's a link that explains it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

 

I guess this is another one of those times we'll have to agree to disagree. To ME, asking that God's will be done in all things is the right way to pray. And it's only polite to ask "if it be your will". It's no different from when I was a little kid and was tired enough to want to go to bed early. I'd tell my folks, "I'm going to bed now if it's OK with you." Of COURSE I knew it would be OK with them, but out of respect, I added that "if it's OK with you", because even though I knew that they loved me and wanted me to get some rest, it was their house, and they were in charge.

 

And like I said, if it is NOT his will, then I believe something good will come of it. When my husband was dying, I prayed. I prayed and prayed some more. I never asked that His will be done. I BEGGED Him to spare my husband's life. I told Him I couldn't live without my husband. I begged Him to take me instead. I promised all sorts of things. I tried to bargain with God. I screamed at Him. I cried and cried.

 

And my husband died anyway.

 

I'm not sure who was saved because he died. Maybe someone at the funeral was touched by God that day. Maybe one of the guys he worked with started thinking and discovered that God had been knocking on the door of his heart. Or maybe I'm full of it and that wasn't the reason at all. But I DO know that God's will is always right, and once I accepted that, the peace flowed in. Now I am able to just be thankful that I had him while I did, and that because of his love, I am a better person. He will always be with me, and I can carry on because I know I will see him again one day.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Back in 2006, on Father's Day weekend, 6 of my former students were killed in the same accident. At the time I thought 'surely God could have prevented this'. It wasn't until months later that I learned that 9 people received life-saving/giving transplants from those 6 that were killed.

quote:  Originally Posted by lexum:

Bill you have done it again. You have started another thread to make dogs good idea look like your idea. We are all involved in this thread, including yourself and it is doing well.   Delete your thread and save it for your personal ministry.  Don’t start threads to make your e-mail ministry think you have all the answers.  It’s so obvious what you are doing that it makes your influence here a negative one. Quit it!


Lex, my Friend,

 

I realize this may come as a shock to you -- but, there are more folks reading the Religion Forum -- than you, Chick, and Jennifer.   Since I do not write specifically for any of you; I believe I will just leave my other discussion as it is -- and allow others to read it as they choose. 

 

Do I come into this discussion occasionally to respond or to interject a thought?  Yes.  But, the issue of prayer is much to important to just let it float around in a "spitting contest" such as this and most all discussions eventually become.   So, my Friend, since the other discussion is targeted to more than just you three -- please feel free to ignore it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Gimme A Hug

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quote: Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:  Originally Posted by O No!:

I'm not sure where I heard the butterfly thing first. Probably in a science fiction book. But here's a link that explains it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

 

I guess this is another one of those times we'll have to agree to disagree. To ME, asking that God's will be done in all things is the right way to pray. And it's only polite to ask "if it be your will". It's no different from when I was a little kid and was tired enough to want to go to bed early. I'd tell my folks, "I'm going to bed now if it's OK with you." Of COURSE I knew it would be OK with them, but out of respect, I added that "if it's OK with you", because even though I knew that they loved me and wanted me to get some rest, it was their house, and they were in charge.

 

And like I said, if it is NOT his will, then I believe something good will come of it. When my husband was dying, I prayed. I prayed and prayed some more. I never asked that His will be done. I BEGGED Him to spare my husband's life. I told Him I couldn't live without my husband. I begged Him to take me instead. I promised all sorts of things. I tried to bargain with God. I screamed at Him. I cried and cried.

 

And my husband died anyway.

 

I'm not sure who was saved because he died. Maybe someone at the funeral was touched by God that day. Maybe one of the guys he worked with started thinking and discovered that God had been knocking on the door of his heart. Or maybe I'm full of it and that wasn't the reason at all. But I DO know that God's will is always right, and once I accepted that, the peace flowed in. Now I am able to just be thankful that I had him while I did, and that because of his love, I am a better person. He will always be with me, and I can carry on because I know I will see him again one day.

Back in 2006, on Father's Day weekend, 6 of my former students were killed in the same accident.  At the time I thought 'surely God could have prevented this.'   It wasn't until months later that I learned that 9 people received life-saving/giving transplants from those 6 that were killed.

Hi O No and DogSoldier,

 

Both of your stories have inspired and encouraged me.  Thank you.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill you should not have put your thread here when you stole the idea from dog. It was perfectly fine for you to expand on his thread to your mission e-mail work. My complaint is you posted it here when you knew good-and-well we were all discussing prayer on dogs thread. You were a part of the discussion on dogs thread. Why dilute his thread. I’m calling foul. How can I keep watching your back when you do this?

quote: Originally Posted by O No!:

Bill, I don't see where this has become a "spitting contest" at all.  It's been a very respectful, thoughtful conversation.


Hi O,

 

You are right and I do offer my apologies for not being clear.  I was speaking in generalities when I said that most of the discussions deteriorate into spitting contests.   You are right that this one has tended to stay on the main issue.  If I offended you or anyone else, I apologize.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote: Originally Posted by O No!:

Bill, I don't see where this has become a "spitting contest" at all.  It's been a very respectful, thoughtful conversation.


Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi O,

You are right and I do offer my apologies for not being clear.  I was speaking in generalities when I said that most of the discussions deteriorate into spitting contests.   You are right that this one has tended to stay on the main issue.  If I offended you or anyone else, I apologize.

Bill

__________________________

I'm sure if anyone besides O No had said that, there's no way an apology would have come from you.

Speaking in generalities? According to you all discussions that doesn't go your way, you call "spitting contest", & run start another topic.

This discussion was going fine until you came into it.

 

Jere Beasley report.http://www.jerebeasleyreport.c.../pray-for-revival-2/

 

          Very interesting thoughts.

 

I asked Leigh O’Dell, one of our lawyers, to write the Parting Words for this issue. As expected, Leigh did an excellent job. I believe each of our readers will be blessed by reading it – I know that I was. Leigh, a dedicated follower of her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, has allowed God to speak through her.

Pray for Revival

The headlines in recent days have been littered with reports of revolution and war; soaring unemployment, speculation about the collapse of large financial institutions, the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating, and our enormous national debt; earthquakes and hurricanes; and the sexualization of our culture. In the midst of all of this, have you felt a bit overwhelmed? Or asked what in the world is going on? Is there hope?

There was another era in our nation’s history when, like now, our country was being shaken by financial crisis, looming conflict, and social unrest. In the 1850s, the years leading up to the Civil War, our country experienced a time of great tumult. The population was increasing but religious devotion was on the decline. Gang riots plagued New York City. Tension was mounting over the plight of the 4 million slaves in America, and in March 1857, the United States Supreme Court issued one the most shameful decisions in its history, the Dred Scott case which held that African American slaves could not be U.S. citizens. Churches were divided. The stock market crashed on October 10, 1857. Banks in Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston failed. A run on the banks in New York crippled the financial system. In Chicago during this time period, there were more brothels than churches by more than 30%. It was a dark period in our history.

In the midst of the overwhelming sense of fear and anxiety that pervaded our country at that time, Jeremiah Calvin Lanphier, a businessman turned local missionary, invited businessmen to pray together during their lunch break. On September 23, 1857, the first lunch-time meeting took place – six people showed up and the first person to arrive was thirty minutes late. Though not a very encouraging beginning, Lanphier persisted. Each meeting consisted of offered by individuals in attendance; there was no agenda, only a commitment to ask God to intervene in the lives of men and women for salvation and growth in Christ. The next week 22 businessmen participated; the next, thirty. Eventually, these meetings were held daily and grew in attendance to more than 2,500. What is even more amazing is that these meetings of ordinary businessmen and lay persons spread not only throughout New York City, but throughout the country to Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, and other cities big and small. Eventually, thousands were meeting around the country for .

In answer to these prayers, God poured out His Spirit, drawing hundreds of thousands to Himself for salvation and moving even more believers to repentance and a renewed relationship with Him. Gambling saloons were made available for meetings. Atlanta’s Chief of Police testified that the revival had so reduced the crime rate that he could dispense with half his force. In New York, many brothels were closed. This return to devotion to Jesus resulted in dramatic changes in the spiritual and cultural landscape of our country. And, it started with ordinary people like you and me praying for repentance among followers of Jesus and for those that did not know Jesus to have a personal encounter with Him.

Does the revival of 1857-58 have any relevance to us today? I believe it does. Is there hope for our country and world? Yes! But our hope is not in a political party, economic prosperity, or social justice. Our only hope is in Jesus – His saving work on the cross and His grace poured out in our lives through the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the 1850s, God worked mightily when one unknown, previously ineffective local missionary asked, “Lord, what would you have me do?” Lanphier answered the Lord’s call, began to pray, and called others to pray. God worked in amazing ways.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is all-powerful. The same Lord that moved in sweeping, miraculous ways in the 1850s can do the same today. No problem is too big for the Lord. No sin, other than lack of repentance, is so serious that it cannot be covered by the grace of Jesus. No country, no situation, no person is too far gone that they cannot be radically changed by the love of Christ. There is HOPE and His name is Jesus.

So what shall we do? I think 2 Chronicles 7:14 says it best, “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.”

The Lord is looking for humble, obedient, and available servants. Today, ask the Lord what He would have you do and answer His call. Begin to pray for revival, asking the Lord Jesus to forgive our sins and bring healing throughout our country and the world.

Leigh O’Dell August 23, 2011

After reading what the Lord had to say through Leigh, it made me realize that we all must intensify our efforts. In fact, I believe there is nothing more important any of us can do. The future of our nation depends on our following that which is stated in 2 Chronicles 7:14.

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