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I know....one must have FAITH. I also am well aware that God seldom 'works' as we expect. But how does someone of weak faith overcome their doubts re: prayer?

 

BTW...I plan on ignoring responses from 'non-believers'..sorry jimi (and respectfully request others do the same so we can keep this thread on track), so you guys don't need to waste your precious time responding.

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What about those of us that are kinda in the middle? I plan on watching this topic in hopes I might learn something. So what if I have a question to something someone says? I will respectfully delete my post if you say I'm not allowed or that anything I add will be ignored. If you will let me know by answering within my post, I can delete my question & your answer.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

What about those of us that are kinda in the middle? I plan on watching this topic in hopes I might learn something. So what if I have a question to something someone says? I will respectfully delete my post if you say I'm not allowed or that anything I add will be ignored. If you will let me know by answering within my post, I can delete my question & your answer.

semi,

Sometimes I find myself thinking that I'm 'sorta in the middle', too, hence the origin of my question. As for the rest, I think you know exactly what sorts of individuals I was requesting refrain from posting. YOU never crossed my mind as being remotely considered as 'one of those'.

I certainly don't have all the answers and not real sure if the few I have are without error...haha...but I'll tell you my thoughts on the question. 

 

For me, prayer is a release of everything...my fears, my concerns, my anger, my joy, my praise, just anything on my mind and in my heart...and a filling from God at the end - a settling of peace, contentment, whatever I need to go on in my current circumstance.  I trust God because of all that he's already done & all that I am promised is to come, which is more than enough if that were all I am to receive.  I know that regardless of the answer to my prayer, our "the end" will be a happy one and this life is just a small blip in comparison to eternity.

 

My Grandmother was what we refer to as a "prayer warrior", extraordinarily gifted in that area.  She was also the kindest and wisest person I have ever known.  My Aunt asked her one time how she knew when to pray.  She said she felt compelled, awakened if she were asleep, that when she began to pray everything was black and that she would pray until it became a field of wildflowers.  In her last days, when her mind was gone, the only time she was lucid was when she prayed.  I do not understand why "the prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working", why it's allowed I mean, why prayer is allowed to evoke a change...but I believe that in it does...it either changes the circumstance or changes the person praying.

Originally Posted by _Joy_:

For me, prayer is a release of everything...my fears, my concerns, my anger, my joy, my praise, just anything on my mind and in my heart...and a filling from God at the end - a settling of peace, contentment, whatever I need to go on in my current circumstance. 

My Grandmother was what we refer to as a "prayer warrior", extraordinarily gifted in that area. 

_______________________________

Joy, the Bible says “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened”.

 

“And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.”

 

It can't get any plainer that that. It does not say I might or I will but not the way you want. Those verses are why I don't understand prayers not being answered. I always get generic answers to that question when I ask it but I always have hope that someone will give me the right answer.

 

When I was growing we had an elderly neighbor that was truly a part of our family. She was a prayer warrior too, & was truly gifted. Even as an adult, there were times I would still go to her, lay my head in her lap, crying, as she prayed for me. She lived to be 103 & there are days that I sure wish I had her lap to lay my head.

 

 

How do you know the prayer wasn't answered?

 

In that second verse you quoted, I consider the word "believing" a disclaimer, for lack of a better word.  What does it mean to believe? There's a day's worth of digging in the Bible right there...haha...my short answer would be with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength and all your mind, but perhaps not my final answer.

 

There are other verses that elaborate, such as 1 John 5:14 "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us."  Are we praying according to his will or our will?  Have we sought his will at all?  Also, John 15:7 "If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you"  Do we abide in him and do his words abide in us?  If so, what would we then ask?  What would we see as an urgent need?

 

I'm not sure that the first verse you quoted is about prayer?  I always took that to mean salvation, Christ, wisdom, divine revelation?  Not sure. You're probably right.  I'm not sure & would have to look further.

 

I also think it is important to study all that the Bible says about a subject before forming a conclusion.  For instance, James 4:3 says "You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions."  From where is our prayer coming?  What is our motivation for asking?

 

I love the story about your neighbor...precious memory.

I know the prayer wasn't answered because I didn't receive what I was asking for. Not even close.

 

I think it all comes down to faith. It takes faith to believe in something, faith to get on your knees to pray, faith to believe we will receive what we ask for. That faith can begin to slip away when it seems having all that faith  has gotten you nowhere. Why weren't prayers answered? You begin to question why or if there’s truth to any of it. 

 

When you pray for something or someone, you’re asking for something specific. Sometimes when you pray you’re seeking something. I believe that second scripture could easily be related to prayer, & the other things you mentioned too, but then what do I know? I’m the one with the doubts & a thousand questions.

 

You’ve given me something to think about with James 4:3.

Because God does things according to HIS will. If two people prayed sincerely, one for rain on Wednesday so his crops will not dry up, and the other that it doesn't rain so their little boy will have a chance to go horseback riding with his cousin before his cousin leaves for another state, how in the world can they both get what they are asking for? That's why it is so important to pray for HIS will.

 

I have a friend who is really sick right now. I pray for her daily. I always ask, "Lord, if it is your will, please let my friend get well. If it is NOT your will that she get well, I ask you to ease her pain, both mentally and physically. And I ask you, Lord, to bring her closer to you."

Dog in essence you are asking, by what authority is God dealing with a prayer not to your satisfaction.

    It is for the same reason the tree had no fruit when Jesus was hungry. Jesus was denied the food.

    It is unknown if his disciples ask for anything in prayer after Jesus made the statement. Probably not.

Paul prayed several times for his "thorn in the flesh" to be removed and the answer was no.  Paul does explain why his was denied...

 

"But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong."  2 Cor 12:9-9

 

That would not be the reason every request is denied, but it would explain some.

Originally Posted by O No!:

I have a friend who is really sick right now. I pray for her daily. I always ask, "Lord, if it is your will, please let my friend get well. If it is NOT your will that she get well, I ask you to ease her pain, both mentally and physically. And I ask you, Lord, to bring her closer to you."

_____________________________

I've had her on my mind today & would love to see her come through this.

My husband has an Uncle that is forever saying "If it be His will". I don't understand how it can be God's will that anyone suffer. If He's the loving God people say He is, why all the suffering? I don't think anyone can give an answer to satisfy me, just as they can't about prayer,  but I thought I would ask anyway.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Why aren't ALL earnest, sincere and needful prayers answered?

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I've been asking that same question for years & no one can give me an answer. Jesus himself said, "Ask, & ye shall receive". If you find the answer, please let me know.

 


 

If that was all he said on the subject, I would agree, semi, but it's not.

 

In answer to dogsoldier, God sees a much bigger picture than us.  Paul was fortunate enough to understand his answer.  Some of us may not understand this side of Heaven.

Originally Posted by lexum:

Dog in essence you are asking, by what authority is God dealing with a prayer not to your satisfaction.

    It is for the same reason the tree had no fruit when Jesus was hungry. Jesus was denied the food.

    It is unknown if his disciples ask for anything in prayer after Jesus made the statement. Probably not.

Was it the tree's fault it bore no fruit? Instead of killing the tree, why didn't Jesus make it sprout fruit in abundance?

I think Jesus was making the point that not even HE got everything he wanted. the disciples themselves were confused themselves why He killed the tree rather than cause it to be fruitful. you don't force anyone to be fruitful. Jesus had faith he would be fed. He told them they could destroy the tree and have faith they would be fed as did He. Even a mountain could be destroyed or anything else [all things] they might pray for could be destroyed as was the tree or mountain but through faith any need would be met.

Originally Posted by lexum:

I think Jesus was making the point that not even HE got everything he wanted. the disciples themselves were confused themselves why He killed the tree rather than cause it to be fruitful. you don't force anyone to be fruitful. Jesus had faith he would be fed. He told them they could destroy the tree and have faith they would be fed as did He. Even a mountain could be destroyed or anything else [all things] they might pray for could be destroyed as was the tree or mountain but through faith any need would be met.

===========================

I believe another point Jesus wanted to make about the fig tree would be,

what good is a fruit tree, if it doesn't produce fruit?

With that in mind, what good is a person who doesn't produce a Godly

life, a good life that reflects the teachings of Christ.

The wheat will be separated from the chaff.

 

Dog soldier, regardless of whether you find the satisfactory answer for your question I would keep praying.

Prayers are answered sometimes with a no. sometimes with a yes. I would not try and put a time element on prayer being answered.

       I always am reminded of David Bohm’s theory that “thought is a system” meaning that anything you think will cause an effect to that system in some way. I think once you think about that theory you must agree that prayer and the thought put into it certainly affects some outcome to our God given abilities to heal, love, create or invent ways to enjoy life on our own.

      It is after all our God given intellect that through science of medicine we heal ourselves. Many thoughts and prayers  influence the fruits of medical science. Common animals do not have this gift. The physical laws given to our universe by God would quickly fail if God immediately answered all prayers.

Originally Posted by lexum:

Dog soldier, regardless of whether you find the satisfactory answer for your question I would keep praying.

Prayers are answered sometimes with a no. sometimes with a yes. I would not try and put a time element on prayer being answered.

       I always am reminded of David Bohm’s theory that “thought is a system” meaning that anything you think will cause an effect to that system in some way. I think once you think about that theory you must agree that prayer and the thought put into it certainly affects some outcome to our God given abilities to heal, love, create or invent ways to enjoy life on our own.

      It is after all our God given intellect that through science of medicine we heal ourselves. Many thoughts and prayers  influence the fruits of medical science. Common animals do not have this gift. The physical laws given to our universe by God would quickly fail if God immediately answered all prayers.

In the past, I )HAVE) had prayers answered...and they WEREN'T in the manner in which I had hoped for, but BETTER. But now, in praying for SOMEONE ELSE's benefit, nothing is happening. I'm not praying for myself....in fact, I am praying specifically asking God NOT to respond to MY needs, but rather give His attention to this other person.

 

I know we are taught that we won't be made to bear more than we are able, but there is a fine line between bearing the burden and going insane. At the moment, 'insanity' is winning....

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

In the past, I )HAVE) had prayers answered...and they WEREN'T in the manner in which I had hoped for, but BETTER. But now, in praying for SOMEONE ELSE's benefit, nothing is happening. I'm not praying for myself....in fact, I am praying specifically asking God NOT to respond to MY needs, but rather give His attention to this other person.

I know we are taught that we won't be made to bear more than we are able, but there is a fine line between bearing the burden and going insane. At the moment, 'insanity' is winning

 

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Those prayers that weren't answered the way you had hoped for, but better, were they ever for someone that was very sick & dying?  

 

I truly hope that you get the answer you want for this other person. They are lucky to have you. 

 

That fine line between bearing the burden & going insane is very fragile. I once walked that line & it's not a good place to be. I wish you the best.

Dog, I am so sorry to hear about this. I will add both you and this other person to my prayers. I will ask that if it be His will, this person will get well. And I will ask that if it is not His will to see this person get well, that He will bring you comfort, understanding, and the strength to get through it.

 

One of the things I've noticed about this forum is that people may argue and insult one another, but if one of us is truly in need, almost everyone steps up with their prayers, or in the case of the atheists, their good wishes. I'm sure you and this other person will be getting lots of both. ((HUGS))

    When I was a young Father, freshly divorced with the custody of my two little boys. I could not in anyway see how to solve my problems which mostly were my belief issues.

So I prayed morning and night feverently about my salvation my problems in all manners. After about a month I was awoken by my Four Year Old. He was trembling telling me about a small robed figure he saw in the top of his closet. He said the person was trying to tell him something but he couldn’t understand what he was saying. I comforted him and tucked him back in bed, thinking he had a dream. My prayers were always private about these matters but the next morning my son told me that he knew what the man was trying to tell him. He said that the man said, “you can’t get help if you can’t help yourself”.

        This rattled me because my son was in no way familiar with my worries and prayers.

My son was also only four. The message was for myself. The message I hold dear to my heart, for I was not doing my best to solve my problems. And my faith in God and his Son became unshakable. My understanding is that because of my hardened mind I received my answers thru my son who was innocent and pure. I know that prayers are answered, but not always the way we want or expect.

Skippy 

Thanks, guys, but allow me to provide you with more information: The person I am praying for isn't sick. This person is simply in an extremely stressful situation not of their making (and I am very concerned)...one where their professional skills and experience are being ignored to the point of insult.  Frustration and a sense of hopelessness are this individual's worst enemies at this point.

 

As for my prayers being answered in a manner in which I was totally unprepared for, but was 'better' in all the ways I could have imagined........it's not a story for a public forum. Perhaps if we ever get to meet I'll share.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Dog, but you will both be in my prayers anyway. That's another thing I love about prayer - even when we are not sure WHAT to pray for, God knows what we need, and all we have to do is sincerely say, "Help me, Lord" (or in this case, help Dog and his friend), and God will see immediately what KIND of help is needed.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Thanks, guys, but allow me to provide you with more information: The person I am praying for isn't sick. This person is simply in an extremely stressful situation not of their making (and I am very concerned)...one where their professional skills and experience are being ignored to the point of insult.  Frustration and a sense of hopelessness are this individual's worst enemies at this point.

 

As for my prayers being answered in a manner in which I was totally unprepared for, but was 'better' in all the ways I could have imagined........it's not a story for a public forum. Perhaps if we ever get to meet I'll share.

=========================================

dog, i'm game anytime.

Originally Posted by O No!:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Dog, but you will both be in my prayers anyway. That's another thing I love about prayer - even when we are not sure WHAT to pray for, God knows what we need, and all we have to do is sincerely say, "Help me, Lord" (or in this case, help Dog and his friend), and God will see immediately what KIND of help is needed.

_______________

God won't act unless you ask?

Hi dog, here is a very good link about prayer, i hope you will read it. Short excerpt from that short paper.

 

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http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

 

PRAYING BY GOD’S RULES
[God’s Prayer Rules are Simple but Not Easy]

Few subjects in the Bible are more mysterious or less understood than the subject of prayer. Few indeed know how to pray or what to pray about. And what is the proof of that statement? The proof is that most prayers are never answered. Hundreds of millions of people a day pray in vain. They get no answer to their prayers. Why is this? Is there an answer as to why most prayers go unanswered? Absolutely, there is. Will most people accept the only and true Scriptural teaching on this subject? I’m afraid most will not.

There are many cliches regarding prayer, and some are absolutely true. It is said that God has one of three answers for all prayers: "Yes, No, or Later." This is basically, albeit not totally true. This one might be closer to the truth: "Your way, My way, or No way."

There is an interesting essay on prayer in which it is stated: "I got nothing that I asked for, but everything that I could have ever hoped for." That may make for a nice sentiment, but few would ever believe such a thing deep in their heart. Most people do not believe that they got everything in life that they could have ever hoped for.

Christians and heathens alike, ignorantly and stupidly believe that they can change the mind of a Sovereign God Who always knows long in advance how He will fulfill His perfect plan and purpose under every and all circumstances. Many imagine that answered prayer is when God changes His mind with regards to the way things were going in your life. In other words: You change your ways to please God, and God will change His mind and begin blessing you. NOT TRUE. God never, ever changes His mind about anything.

This subject of unanswered prayer is so incredibly simple that a child can understand it; yet many learned theologians and clergymen have not even a clue as to the ultimate Scriptural statement regarding prayer. I will first give you the number one pre-requisite to having prayers answered, and then I will give you a most amazing second witness from a Scripture that is preserved in very few Bible translations.

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If you read on he gives a lot of Scriptures to back up everything he says.Sincerely hope this helps.


Peace,


gdriggs

 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by O No!:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Dog, but you will both be in my prayers anyway. That's another thing I love about prayer - even when we are not sure WHAT to pray for, God knows what we need, and all we have to do is sincerely say, "Help me, Lord" (or in this case, help Dog and his friend), and God will see immediately what KIND of help is needed.

_______________

God won't act unless you ask?

____________________________________________________________________________

 

Of course He will. That is why I pray always that His will be done. What that prayer achieves is not a change in His plan, but a sign of obedience to Him and trust in Him, that shows God that my heart is in the right place. And because my submission to His will makes my Lord happy, He will bless me -  He may grant my prayer OR He will bring me comfort if the answer is "No". When one prays only for His will to be done and for acceptance and submission to that will, one's prayer is ALWAYS answered in the affirmative. His will IS done (which it would have been anyway), AND He grants the wishes of one's heart.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

The person I am praying for isn't sick. This person is simply in an extremely stressful situation

____________________________________

Stress can make a person sick at heart.

I'm curious, Dog, do you know if prayer works?

I was raised in the CoC. As such, I was taught that miracles ceased with the death of the last disciple. However, I considered ANSWERED prayers to be miracles. In so doing, I am defying/denying what I wa raised to believe, I guess. I HAVE had prayers answered, but not recently...at least not to my knowledge. Maybe I'm, as stated in the beginning, lacking faith.

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by O No!:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Dog, but you will both be in my prayers anyway. That's another thing I love about prayer - even when we are not sure WHAT to pray for, God knows what we need, and all we have to do is sincerely say, "Help me, Lord" (or in this case, help Dog and his friend), and God will see immediately what KIND of help is needed.

_______________

God won't act unless you ask?

____________________________________________________________________________

 

Of course He will. That is why I pray always that His will be done. What that prayer achieves is not a change in His plan, but a sign of obedience to Him and trust in Him, that shows God that my heart is in the right place. And because my submission to His will makes my Lord happy, He will bless me -  He may grant my prayer OR He will bring me comfort if the answer is "No". When one prays only for His will to be done and for acceptance and submission to that will, one's prayer is ALWAYS answered in the affirmative. His will IS done (which it would have been anyway), AND He grants the wishes of one's heart.

 

 

 

In the CoC, prayers seem to always contain that caveat: 'let Thy will be done; if it is HIS will, etc. To me, saying that sounds like a 'cop out'....almost as if the one praying KNOWS, or doesn't expect, the prayer to be answered. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by O No!:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Dog, but you will both be in my prayers anyway. That's another thing I love about prayer - even when we are not sure WHAT to pray for, God knows what we need, and all we have to do is sincerely say, "Help me, Lord" (or in this case, help Dog and his friend), and God will see immediately what KIND of help is needed.

_______________

God won't act unless you ask?

____________________________________________________________________________

 

Of course He will. That is why I pray always that His will be done. What that prayer achieves is not a change in His plan, but a sign of obedience to Him and trust in Him, that shows God that my heart is in the right place. And because my submission to His will makes my Lord happy, He will bless me -  He may grant my prayer OR He will bring me comfort if the answer is "No". When one prays only for His will to be done and for acceptance and submission to that will, one's prayer is ALWAYS answered in the affirmative. His will IS done (which it would have been anyway), AND He grants the wishes of one's heart.

 

 

 

In the CoC, prayers seem to always contain that caveat: 'let Thy will be done; if it is HIS will, etc. To me, saying that sounds like a 'cop out'....almost as if the one praying KNOWS, or doesn't expect, the prayer to be answered. Am I wrong?

___________________________________________________________________________

Well, our number one commandment is to love our Lord with all our heart, mind, and souls. I DO love Him, not because He demands my love, but because He has shown His love to the world, and to me as an individual. He has blessed me richly. I WANT to please Him.

 

AND, I trust Him. I don't want His will to be done because He says so. I want His will to be done because I have complete faith that His will is always going to be right. He is "my hero", the one who can do no wrong, never makes a mistake, knows all there is to be known, has the strength and smarts to do anything, AND HE LOVES ME.

 

So yeah, I believe His will will produce the best outcome for me, and for everyone else. And my trust in Him is so complete that even if His will SEEMS to hurt me in the short run, it will all be for the best in the LONG run.

 

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