Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
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LOL, a new thread for bill and gofish 
Yep sure is ,,,But you can Pray ,,,anywhere ,,anytime you please ,,and nobody can stop that .
Trust me. There were LOTS of prayers when my EX passed out her English finals.....
Or the day the Feds came to check out your Title I program. LOL!!!
heck I used to pray for the bell to ring early 
quote:Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
Trust me. There were LOTS of prayers when my EX passed out her English finals.....
Yes, I think there are few places you'll find more prayer going on than in the schools. We can pray anywhere and any time we want. Just because the laws might prevent someone from forcing prayer on us doesn't mean anyone has taken any rights AWAY from us.
quote:Originally posted by Rolltideroll02:
Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
Why can't [Please note the apostrophe] there be FEWER simplistic questions asked on internet forums--questions such as "Why cant [sic] their [sic] be more prayer in schools?"
This old dead horse has been beaten to a pulp on TD and other forums and the simple answer--as iterated above more than once--is that there is plenty of prayer in schools, but that it is illegal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL, in public schools, for officials of the school system (which is a part of civil GOVERNMENT, i.e. the "state") to devise or prescribe a prayer to be said by or in the compelled presence of the students of such public schools. That is as it should be and any reasonable, sentient citizen of this great Nation should not have too much trouble figuring out why that is the way it SHOULD be! If you are so committed to having open, public, system-prescribed prayer in schools, then find you a private school that suits your personal theological bias and put your chillen there!
Why can't there be a higher standard of literacy on this forum? ("cant" for "can't"; "their" for "there") A-a-r-g-g-h-h! Did you spend too much time praying in your English grammar classes?
I pray beternU gets over himself soon. I also pray for people to remember this is not a term paper to be graded ,its the internet for goodness sake, Stop being so critical of every little coma,, period,, spelling and all the other stuff you English majors gripe about .Start a thread called English majors ,,and I promise Ill stay out of it !!! and I left the ' out from I'll on purpose .
everyoen miss- types sometimes ,Get over it
everyoen miss- types sometimes ,Get over it
Hi to all,
Some have said that students can pray in school -- just as long as the teachers and principal do not instigate it. Wrong!
If that were true, then a student standing up to speak to his/her graduating class could pray and in his/her speech mention Jesus' name -- which they cannot.
If that were true, a student at a football game could get on the loudspeaker and lead the other students and athletes in a prayer -- which they cannot.
If that were true, a student eating lunch could pray for his/her food, and while eating, read his/her Bible -- which they cannot.
Yet, if you have a Muslim student -- he/she can wear their muslim headdress -- he/she can stop five times a day, pull out their prayer rug, and pray to Allah. Which they can.
No, my Friends, true freedom to pray as a Christian chooses -- was removed from America's public schools in 1963. This is why I praise God that my grandchildren attend Christian school.
Think about it.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Some have said that students can pray in school -- just as long as the teachers and principal do not instigate it. Wrong!
If that were true, then a student standing up to speak to his/her graduating class could pray and in his/her speech mention Jesus' name -- which they cannot.
If that were true, a student at a football game could get on the loudspeaker and lead the other students and athletes in a prayer -- which they cannot.
If that were true, a student eating lunch could pray for his/her food, and while eating, read his/her Bible -- which they cannot.
Yet, if you have a Muslim student -- he/she can wear their muslim headdress -- he/she can stop five times a day, pull out their prayer rug, and pray to Allah. Which they can.
No, my Friends, true freedom to pray as a Christian chooses -- was removed from America's public schools in 1963. This is why I praise God that my grandchildren attend Christian school.
Think about it.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
No one would ever be stopped from praying in a quiet non-disruptive manner, nor for any individual prayer even aloud so long as it was not during class time.
The government of the United States and the several states are secular by design. This is a case of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God.
There is no state church in the United States, and the last established church in the U.S., the Congregational Church was disestablished in Mass. in the early 19th Century.
Exactly which prayers would a secular school lead? Just the Pater Noster, or should the Credo be included alongside? How about not the Credo, as some churches are non-trinitarian and then the Jewish and Islamic and Hindu and Bahai and Zoroastarian populations would not get equal time for their hereditary superstitious utterances.
In fact, Jesus Christ warned us not to be like the hypocrits and Pharasees, making loud public prayers in the streets for a public demonstration of their soi disant piety, rather to pray in secret in their "closets" which is Jacobean English for "small enclosed room," and not a room for clothing to hang as some so erroneously presume.
You want prayer, fine. I must insist that the prayers and creeds and all other formulae come from the Book of Common Prayer, no other is acceptable. No wait, we Episcopalians are in communion with the ECLA, so I guess the Evangelical Lutheran service book would be OK. Theologically, we are one with the UMC, so the UMC Book of Order would be OK, too. That is it. But I guess we could allow a RC devotion or Orthodox Church, as our services and prayers are so similiar, minus the Mariology. Well, then, that settles it: Book of Common Prayer would be acceptable for the bulk of Christians in the United States.
All others are straight out of luck. Sorry, but you must conform. Didn't we have a war about this? Oh, wait, the war was in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales and in France and Germany and Bohemia. OK,it is settled, right?
It should be in Aramaic, too, as that was the language Jesus spoke. I wonder if there is an Aramaic version of the Book of Common Prayer? Probably, there is an Arabic one under the Archbishop of Jerusalem.
The government of the United States and the several states are secular by design. This is a case of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God.
There is no state church in the United States, and the last established church in the U.S., the Congregational Church was disestablished in Mass. in the early 19th Century.
Exactly which prayers would a secular school lead? Just the Pater Noster, or should the Credo be included alongside? How about not the Credo, as some churches are non-trinitarian and then the Jewish and Islamic and Hindu and Bahai and Zoroastarian populations would not get equal time for their hereditary superstitious utterances.
In fact, Jesus Christ warned us not to be like the hypocrits and Pharasees, making loud public prayers in the streets for a public demonstration of their soi disant piety, rather to pray in secret in their "closets" which is Jacobean English for "small enclosed room," and not a room for clothing to hang as some so erroneously presume.
You want prayer, fine. I must insist that the prayers and creeds and all other formulae come from the Book of Common Prayer, no other is acceptable. No wait, we Episcopalians are in communion with the ECLA, so I guess the Evangelical Lutheran service book would be OK. Theologically, we are one with the UMC, so the UMC Book of Order would be OK, too. That is it. But I guess we could allow a RC devotion or Orthodox Church, as our services and prayers are so similiar, minus the Mariology. Well, then, that settles it: Book of Common Prayer would be acceptable for the bulk of Christians in the United States.
All others are straight out of luck. Sorry, but you must conform. Didn't we have a war about this? Oh, wait, the war was in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales and in France and Germany and Bohemia. OK,it is settled, right?
It should be in Aramaic, too, as that was the language Jesus spoke. I wonder if there is an Aramaic version of the Book of Common Prayer? Probably, there is an Arabic one under the Archbishop of Jerusalem.
rolltideroll, very valid question, very valid topic of conversation!!!
Yes, it has been discussed here before, but that was WAY before you became a member, so there is nothing wrong with asking it again, there are MANY topics came back into service with new members
I think there is a lot more Prayer in Schools than anyone realizes. Maybe silent ones, but God hears those too!!!
There is also "Flagpole" Prayers in most schools around here, I SOOOOOO admire the kids who do that
Yes, it has been discussed here before, but that was WAY before you became a member, so there is nothing wrong with asking it again, there are MANY topics came back into service with new members
I think there is a lot more Prayer in Schools than anyone realizes. Maybe silent ones, but God hears those too!!!
There is also "Flagpole" Prayers in most schools around here, I SOOOOOO admire the kids who do that
quote:Originally posted by Rolltideroll02:
Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
Because churches are ineffective in motivating kids to pray outside of Sunday school.
I would be in favor of the state appointing an official School Prayer Czar who will be in charge of "conversion" of all non Christians - especially those Jewish and Catholic heathens - and force all children in grades k-12 to pray three times a day.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
If that were true, then a student standing up to speak to his/her graduating class could pray and in his/her speech mention Jesus' name -- which they cannot.
There is absolutely no law prohibiting a student from leading a class in prayer, Bill.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
If that were true, a student eating lunch could pray for his/her food, and while eating, read his/her Bible -- which they cannot.
What's stopping him?
If all of my classwork is complete and a student has no further work to make-up or complete there is nothing stopping that student from reading the Bible.
There is nothing stopping a student from praying before a meal.
There is nothing stopping a student from praying before a test.
However...
- a Baha'i teacher cannot lead his/her students in a Baha'i prayer.
- a Muslim cannot lead his/her students in an Islamic prayer
- a Hindi cannot lead his/her students in a Hindu prayer.
- a Christian cannot lead his/her students in a Christian prayer because that would mean that all the others could as well.
Want to open that can of worms?
Annotated reply; see my entries in brackets.
HEY, BILL--Public school students all over this country have an annual event called "Gather Round the Flagpole," in which they pray and--if they wish--sing hymns and generally conduct a patriotic/worship experience on grounds of public schools. THAT is a student-led, student-initiated function that is perfectly constitutional. Any public school that allows various secular interest groups (e.g. Future Farmers, Boy Scouts) to use its facilities for meetings is required by law to make similar accommodations available, if requested, to student religious groups.
Your characterization of the school prayer scenario is way, way off base and vastly exaggerated.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi to all,
Some have said that students can pray in school -- just as long as the teachers and principal do not instigate it. Wrong!
If that were true, then a student standing up to speak to his/her graduating class could pray and in his/her speech mention Jesus' name -- which they cannot.
[What would be involved here, Bill, is SCHOOL-SANCTIONED prayer within a SCHOOL-SANCTIONED event--since the agenda for the graduation is one that is approved by school (civil government) authorities--and that is impermissible.]
If that were true, a student at a football game could get on the loudspeaker and lead the other students and athletes in a prayer -- which they cannot.
[And they SHOULD NOT--This too would constitute an approved use of school resources within a school-sponsored, governmentally-sanctioned event.]
If that were true, a student eating lunch could pray for his/her food, and while eating, read his/her Bible -- which they cannot.
[Yes they can, and if a school attempts to prevent that, they can be called into account for it.]
Yet, if you have a Muslim student -- he/she can wear their muslim headdress -- he/she can stop five times a day, pull out their prayer rug, and pray to Allah. Which they can. [And a Christian student can say prayers 5 times a day if he/she wishes, but not as part of a school-sanctioned event.]
No, my Friends, true freedom to pray as a Christian [And what kind of freedom would you extend to a non-Christian?] chooses -- was removed from America's public schools in 1963. This is why I praise God that my grandchildren attend Christian school.
Think about it. [I did; more thoughtfully than YOU did!]
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
HEY, BILL--Public school students all over this country have an annual event called "Gather Round the Flagpole," in which they pray and--if they wish--sing hymns and generally conduct a patriotic/worship experience on grounds of public schools. THAT is a student-led, student-initiated function that is perfectly constitutional. Any public school that allows various secular interest groups (e.g. Future Farmers, Boy Scouts) to use its facilities for meetings is required by law to make similar accommodations available, if requested, to student religious groups.
Your characterization of the school prayer scenario is way, way off base and vastly exaggerated.
quote:Originally posted by kontan:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
If that were true, a student eating lunch could pray for his/her food, and while eating, read his/her Bible -- which they cannot.
What's stopping him?
If all of my classwork is complete and a student has no further work to make-up or complete there is nothing stopping that student from reading the Bible.
There is nothing stopping a student from praying before a meal.
There is nothing stopping a student from praying before a test.
However...
- a Baha'i teacher cannot lead his/her students in a Baha'i prayer.
- a Muslim cannot lead his/her students in an Islamic prayer
- a Hindi cannot lead his/her students in a Hindu prayer.
- a Christian cannot lead his/her students in a Christian prayer because that would mean that all the others could as well.
Want to open that can of worms?
GREAT reply, and so true too!!!
You are absolutely right!! You must be a very bright lady, indeed, Kontan!!
I find it very offensive that public schools dont offer some sort of club or class where children are allowed to pray and read their bibles at school with out being critized by peers and authorty figures.
You know something else that Teachers are not acknowledging is that they teach history but they always seem to leave out the part about "IN GOD WE TRUST" and how this country was founded. The governemnt wants to separte CHURCH and STATE. Now look at where that has gotten us.
One of the 'cans of worms' that would be opened is this: Alot of folks support prayer in schools and talk about how everything has gone down hill since they have 'taken it out'. People stand up and argue this with great gnashing of teeth and spit!
When I think about it, in the bigger picture, I think most would say they are all for Christian Prayer in schools. However, if 'prayer in schools' is sanctioned, what would keep ANYBODY ELSE from practicing and 'teaching' their religious teachings in MY Hometown!! I consider myself tolerant of folks with different opinions than mine and I will talk to anybody about my own Spiritual Journey. I will NOT Tolerate anybody teaching our kids to 'Drink the Kool-Aid', or 'We Hate Americans' or worship this guy (or whatever).
I really think that, of the folks I know, most of them who beat their chests about 'prayer in schools' are talking about Christian Prayer.
Think about it...when ill-intentioned people want to spread their 'word', wouldn't they use your very same argument? Somebody came up with the phrase 'Hidden Agenda' for a reason.
I have already been warned to watch for Wolves in Sheep's Clothing! JMHO!
When I think about it, in the bigger picture, I think most would say they are all for Christian Prayer in schools. However, if 'prayer in schools' is sanctioned, what would keep ANYBODY ELSE from practicing and 'teaching' their religious teachings in MY Hometown!! I consider myself tolerant of folks with different opinions than mine and I will talk to anybody about my own Spiritual Journey. I will NOT Tolerate anybody teaching our kids to 'Drink the Kool-Aid', or 'We Hate Americans' or worship this guy (or whatever).
I really think that, of the folks I know, most of them who beat their chests about 'prayer in schools' are talking about Christian Prayer.
Think about it...when ill-intentioned people want to spread their 'word', wouldn't they use your very same argument? Somebody came up with the phrase 'Hidden Agenda' for a reason.
I have already been warned to watch for Wolves in Sheep's Clothing! JMHO!
This is true.quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi to all,
Some have said that students can pray in school -- just as long as the teachers and principal do not instigate it. Wrong!
If that were true, then a student standing up to speak to his/her graduating class could pray and in his/her speech mention Jesus' name -- which they cannot.
[What would be involved here, Bill, is SCHOOL-SANCTIONED prayer within a SCHOOL-SANCTIONED event--since the agenda for the graduation is one that is approved by school (civil government) authorities--and that is impermissible.]
If that were true, a student at a football game could get on the loudspeaker and lead the other students and athletes in a prayer -- which they cannot.
[And they SHOULD NOT--This too would constitute an approved use of school resources within a school-sponsored, governmentally-sanctioned event.]
If that were true, a student eating lunch could pray for his/her food, and while eating, read his/her Bible -- which they cannot.
[Yes they can, and if a school attempts to prevent that, they can be called into account for it.]
Yet, if you have a Muslim student -- he/she can wear their muslim headdress -- he/she can stop five times a day, pull out their prayer rug, and pray to Allah. Which they can. [And a Christian student can say prayers 5 times a day if he/she wishes, but not as part of a school-sanctioned event.]
No, my Friends, true freedom to pray as a Christian [And what kind of freedom would you extend to a non-Christian?] chooses -- was removed from America's public schools in 1963. This is why I praise God that my grandchildren attend Christian school.
Think about it. [I did; more thoughtfully than YOU did!]
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
quote:Originally posted by Rolltideroll02:
Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
Who said there couldn't be any more prayer in schools?
And we don't get French benefits?
The instruction of religion is the responsibility of parents and ministers - not the public school system. My mother held a devotional while I ate my breakfast every morning. I wonder how many of those who get all apoplectic over the issue of "prayer in schools" actually instruct their children in religion or take the kids to church regularly? The Bible instructs us in Matthew 6:6 "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly". Also in Matthew 6:1 -"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven". Sometimes I think people are far more interested in making a big show than actually making a difference. Prayer is a great thing - God also expects us to work. Children should know that they can pray when ever they wish, but not for show and certainly not for political purposes.
Bill, Bill, Bill, I hate to tell you this my friend but you are wrong.
Students are allowed to have their Bibles in school for their own reading, and while they are not allowed to read it publicly,if another student asks for info from the Bible,the other student may share the information,but only if asked.
Also every school I know observes a full minute of silence each morning,this is to give students the opportunity to pray silently if they so choose. And there is the once a year "Meet Me At The Pole"where students gather around the flagpole to pray and sing praises to our Lord.
Students are allowed to have their Bibles in school for their own reading, and while they are not allowed to read it publicly,if another student asks for info from the Bible,the other student may share the information,but only if asked.
Also every school I know observes a full minute of silence each morning,this is to give students the opportunity to pray silently if they so choose. And there is the once a year "Meet Me At The Pole"where students gather around the flagpole to pray and sing praises to our Lord.
quote:Originally posted by ms. wonka:
Students are allowed to have their Bibles in school for their own reading, and while they are not allowed to read it publicly
Completely wrong. A student may exercise his Constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech and religion any time and anywhere as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. My son could stand on the front steps of any Florence City School and hold a bible devotional in front of the principal if he so chose.
quote:Also every school I know observes a full minute of silence each morning,
Not true.
Once again we are talking "show" here. I would suggest that kids would be better off exercizing their religion all day long, encouraged by their parents to live a life of example, not making a show of the act of prayer. There is much more to Christianity than a public prayer.
Tbe United States did not become the United States because of religion at all. Other than New England, a noxious clan of rock farmers and tar renderers who were Separatists from the Purtitan branch of Anglicanism, and wanted the Church of England's ritual, heirarchy and structure destroyed "root and branch," and were kicked out of England for being so radical for even the normally crazed Puritan Calvinists, to Holland they fled, then onwards to America, where they were able to found their little glorious theocracy -- for a few short years filled with witch hunting and hanging, hanging Quakers and in-fighting until the Crown was restored and they were secularized under the Crown.
In the Middle Atlantic the Anglican Church was established, but all Protestants tolerated, and in reality, Roman Catholics also. Rhode Island and Pennsylvania were the sole exceptions of no established church at all, and one did not even to be a Christian to hold office in colonial Rhode Island. NC, SC, Maryland (although originally secular and founded as a Roman Catholic haven, but rapidly Anglican established with toleration) and Virginia were all under the Church of England as Established by Law. But the tithes did a lot more than just pay a priest: the vestry oversaw local charity and the care of orphans until they were of age. By the time of the Revolution, many vestrymen were not practicing Anglicans at all, rather Methodists, Presbyterians, or Baptists in Virginia, as it was a political office as much as a religious one.
Under Establishment what one got was a case of the Test Act, where one had to take Communion once a year according to the Anglican rite and swear that they believed in the Trinity and renounced the control of the Pope over the Church.
This was unenforcable. George Washington, along with many other nominal Anglicans were baptized into the church and attended sermons, but were not confirmed since this required a bishop, and the colonies were under the control of the Bishop of London, and the colonies insisted upon NO BISHOPS in America, as they were appointed by the Crown. Washington never took Communion once in his life, as he felt it was reserved for confirmed members of the church.
America was settled for a variety of reasons: religious freedom for only a few small sets of people, to thwart the Spanish and French in America, to get rich quickly (as the Spanish had done, but when there was no gold on the Atlantic coast. . .), the supply of raw material to England and the Carribean, i.e., molasses distilled into rum in America after being rendered in Barbados or Nevis or Jamaica, oak and white pine for ships' timbers and masts, pine tar for pitching rope and vessels, and tobacco, then indigo and then rice.
The US colonial experience was characterized by killing most of the women (after raping them), men and children of the First Nations or else deporting them as opposed to the Spanish model of merely killing the men and then raping the women.
Add in chattel slavery. Religious intoleration. Decimation or extinction of entire nations of people. Pretty crappy place until the Enlightenment took hold and actual toleration began to be practiced.
That is the foundation of America. Not glorious, not particularly "religious" in origin and not ordained by God or any other deity save for a small self-selected group of fanatics and their little experiment failed miserably, as by the early 1700s Boston and Portsmouth were Anglican cities!
The Chesapeake had about as much use for a clergyman as they did a surveyor checking the boundary lines they claimed! The Anglican clergy were by and large rejects who could not even get a curateship in Ireland (then considered the bottom of the rung in Anglican clerican society), but could a vicarage in America.
Read. Don't read a 3rd grade text of Whig History. Read Jack Green, Rhys Issac, Haukluyt, Morgan, Marty, etc. etc.
In the Middle Atlantic the Anglican Church was established, but all Protestants tolerated, and in reality, Roman Catholics also. Rhode Island and Pennsylvania were the sole exceptions of no established church at all, and one did not even to be a Christian to hold office in colonial Rhode Island. NC, SC, Maryland (although originally secular and founded as a Roman Catholic haven, but rapidly Anglican established with toleration) and Virginia were all under the Church of England as Established by Law. But the tithes did a lot more than just pay a priest: the vestry oversaw local charity and the care of orphans until they were of age. By the time of the Revolution, many vestrymen were not practicing Anglicans at all, rather Methodists, Presbyterians, or Baptists in Virginia, as it was a political office as much as a religious one.
Under Establishment what one got was a case of the Test Act, where one had to take Communion once a year according to the Anglican rite and swear that they believed in the Trinity and renounced the control of the Pope over the Church.
This was unenforcable. George Washington, along with many other nominal Anglicans were baptized into the church and attended sermons, but were not confirmed since this required a bishop, and the colonies were under the control of the Bishop of London, and the colonies insisted upon NO BISHOPS in America, as they were appointed by the Crown. Washington never took Communion once in his life, as he felt it was reserved for confirmed members of the church.
America was settled for a variety of reasons: religious freedom for only a few small sets of people, to thwart the Spanish and French in America, to get rich quickly (as the Spanish had done, but when there was no gold on the Atlantic coast. . .), the supply of raw material to England and the Carribean, i.e., molasses distilled into rum in America after being rendered in Barbados or Nevis or Jamaica, oak and white pine for ships' timbers and masts, pine tar for pitching rope and vessels, and tobacco, then indigo and then rice.
The US colonial experience was characterized by killing most of the women (after raping them), men and children of the First Nations or else deporting them as opposed to the Spanish model of merely killing the men and then raping the women.
Add in chattel slavery. Religious intoleration. Decimation or extinction of entire nations of people. Pretty crappy place until the Enlightenment took hold and actual toleration began to be practiced.
That is the foundation of America. Not glorious, not particularly "religious" in origin and not ordained by God or any other deity save for a small self-selected group of fanatics and their little experiment failed miserably, as by the early 1700s Boston and Portsmouth were Anglican cities!
The Chesapeake had about as much use for a clergyman as they did a surveyor checking the boundary lines they claimed! The Anglican clergy were by and large rejects who could not even get a curateship in Ireland (then considered the bottom of the rung in Anglican clerican society), but could a vicarage in America.
Read. Don't read a 3rd grade text of Whig History. Read Jack Green, Rhys Issac, Haukluyt, Morgan, Marty, etc. etc.
Maybe we should have a round table discussion at the Emma House...I am sure they will be more than happy to do the ****tail setups as we discuss the religious points of being Islamic, Jewish, Protestant, Catholic or whatever elk you want to worship...
quote:Originally posted by Rolltideroll02:
I find it very offensive that public schools dont offer some sort of club or class where children are allowed to pray and read their bibles at school with out being critized by peers and authorty figures.
And when should Bible class take place? What should be eliminated? Are you not aware of the funding crisis facing education? We're barely able to fund core classes! BTW, I have taught in a public school where Biblical history was offered, and actually taught the class. It isn't unheard of, just not something that can always be done due to $$$.
quote:Originally posted by Rolltideroll02:
You know something else that Teachers are not acknowledging is that they teach history but they always seem to leave out the part about "IN GOD WE TRUST" and how this country was founded. The governemnt wants to separte CHURCH and STATE. Now look at where that has gotten us.
Why must you generalize? It is taught.
If you are saying "In God We Trust" was a founding principle you need to do a little more research as to how it became printed on money and why it was adopted as the motto.
I have no problem of children have a time for studying their Bibles as long as you also provide time for other faiths to do the same with theirs...
To favor one faith over another is against the law, therefore prohibed in public venues
To favor one faith over another is against the law, therefore prohibed in public venues
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Once again we are talking "show" here. I would suggest that kids would be better off exercizing their religion all day long, encouraged by their parents to live a life of example, not making a show of the act of prayer.
Amen. That is true for adults as well but if kids choose to make a show of their faith, they certainly have that right.
quote:Originally posted by GoFish:quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Once again we are talking "show" here. I would suggest that kids would be better off exercizing their religion all day long, encouraged by their parents to live a life of example, not making a show of the act of prayer.
Amen. That is true for adults as well but if kids choose to make a show of their faith, they certainly have that right.
Not at the expense of others. Freedom of religion is not an excuse to disrupt school or challenge the religious beliefs of others. Rights come with responsibility. The religious education of children is not the responsibility of the public school system. That is the responsibility of families and churches. Funny how the same people who are so interested in keeping the government OUT of our lives sometimes want state sponsored religious teaching. Sort of contrary to purpose.
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Not at the expense of others. Freedom of religion is not an excuse to disrupt school or challenge the religious beliefs of others. Rights come with responsibility. The religious education of children is not the responsibility of the public school system. That is the responsibility of families and churches.
AGREE!
quote:Funny how the same people who are so interested in keeping the government OUT of our lives sometimes want state sponsored religious teaching. Sort of contrary to purpose.
I am one that wants government out of our lives and I have no desire to be responsible for religious teaching in our public schools. Happy to teach the HISTORY of religions and of the Biblical period, but NOT doctrine.
quote:Originally posted by Rolltideroll02:
Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
Because there is so little prayer in homes.
quote:Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
Why can't there be more English taught, and less consternation about prayer?
DF
Don't be silly, Deep. Alabamians are so educated that we have the luxury of proselytizing.
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:Why cant their be more prayer in schools.
Why can't there be more English taught, and less consternation about prayer?
DF
My focus was on prayer in general and not prayer in schools. However, since schools have children’s time and attention, often more than parents have them, I can understand their concern and focus. There should be a legitimate concern about children not praying, although I’m not sure what they can do about them not praying in schools. All I can say is that parents need to teach their children to pray and to trust God in prayer while they are young, and at home. It's easier to destroy the potential faith of an individual that has never known God, than to destroy the established faith of a person that has through his or her own experience, learned that God exists. Those who are genuine in their faith, and learn to pray the prayer of faith to God, will eventually have testimonies to share with their children. When they teach their children to trust in God, they will have done much to help establish their children no matter where they might go, whether it is school or the mall. It would be wise of parents to monitor the school and make sure the school is not violating their children’s rights to pray, or undermining their efforts to instill faith and personal integrity in their children.
There will be problems any time schools are given the tasks or goals to teach unproven theories as if they were facts, teach religious beliefs, or propose education that attempts to shape a child’s sense of morality, when these things conflict with the basic beliefs and rights of the parents and their children, or overrides the sovereignty of the family institution. Yet we do have a bit of a problem, even when the school does not violate family rights, and holds true to the idea of Separation of Church and State. The problem occurs if God is never mentioned in a positive way. If God is never mentioned purposely in a positive manner, then chances are He will mostly be mentioned in a derogatory sense such as cursing. If God is not mentioned positively, then you have a good possibility of violence to increase, a degradation of the value of mankind, a sense of living life for the present without future consequences, increase in sexual crimes, an increase in children having children, and an environment where the strong manipulate and take advantage of the weak. Without God, people have no standards except for what they establish in their own minds, or what they pick up from their environment. So to speak positively as if God exists, I believe is a good thing. That should be possible without violating peoples personal beliefs or faiths. There is much in common that we have in various faiths. Surely there is some common ground that we can agree on.
By the way, if it were not for people like you and GoFish, there would probably be less concern for prayer in schools.
Rolltideroll02
"I find it very offensive that public schools dont offer some sort of club or class where children are allowed to pray and read their bibles at school with out being critized by peers and authorty figures"
there is a club called FCLA. Future Christian Leaders of America. I don't think there is a problem with kids praying,reading the Bible, discussing the word of God with there peers but our teacher and other school staff is not allowed to bring up religion due to some people are atheist. that is there right. i am not saying that i am or that it is right but everyone is entitled to their own religion and/or beliefs. have a good day everyone
"I find it very offensive that public schools dont offer some sort of club or class where children are allowed to pray and read their bibles at school with out being critized by peers and authorty figures"
there is a club called FCLA. Future Christian Leaders of America. I don't think there is a problem with kids praying,reading the Bible, discussing the word of God with there peers but our teacher and other school staff is not allowed to bring up religion due to some people are atheist. that is there right. i am not saying that i am or that it is right but everyone is entitled to their own religion and/or beliefs. have a good day everyone