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PRAYER REQUEST:   Please lift Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in prayer, that our Lord will give him healing from cancer.  Also, please keep his wife, Kay, and all of his family in your prayers.


PASTOR CHUCK SMITH OF CALVARY CHAPEL REVEALS CANCER DIAGNOSIS

The Christian Post, Church & Ministries, Mon, January 02, 2012

By Stoyan Zaimov,  Christian Post Reporter

http://www.christianpost.com/n...cer-diagnosis-66170/


The congregation of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, California, was left stunned on the first Sunday service of the new year when Senior Pastor Chuck Smith announced that he has been battling lung cancer.

Following Sunday’s service at the church, Smith's son-in-law, Brian Brodersen, and other pastors joined together to anoint Smith with oil and offer prayers for his healing.  Pastor Smith is 84 years old and has never smoked, Assist News Service reported.  Smith faces a biopsy on Tuesday and surgery the following week.

Calvary Chapel confirmed the news on its Facebook page over the weekend, writing:


"Please pray for Pastor Chuck Smith, Sr.!   Today it was announced cancer has been found in his lung; there is uncertainty as to the extent.  We are expecting to know more regarding prognosis and treatment after Tuesday.  Please pass on this request of prayer for him, Kay, and the rest of the family."

 

Thank you and God bless,

Bill

Pastor Chuck Smith

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Hi BeterCon,

 

Let's take a look at what Pastor Chuck Smith has done for the Lord and for the increase in His kingdom -- and, then let's look at what BeterCon has done.

 

If you will visit http://calvarychapel.com -- at the bottom you will find four buttons:

 

One is What We Believe and it tells us:

 

Bill comment:  This is not their Statement of Faith; but, only an Overview.

 

Calvary Chapel has been formed as a fellowship of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our supreme desire is to know Christ and to be conformed into His image by the power of the Holy Spirit.

  • We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of the doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the Body of Christ.
  • We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.
  • We believe worship of God should be spiritual. Therefore, we remain flexible and yielded to the leading of the Holy Spirit to direct our worship.
  • We believe worship of God should be inspirational. Therefore, we give a great place to music in our worship.
  • We believe worship of God should be intelligent. Therefore, our services are designed with great emphasis upon teaching the Word of God that He might instruct us how He should be worshiped.
  • We believe worship of God is fruitful. Therefore, we look for His love in our lives as the supreme manifestation that we have truly been worshiping Him.

Another button is Calvary Chapel Colleges The main campus is in Murrietta, California -- with a number of affiliate campuses in California and in other states.  You can also find Calvary Chapel Colleges in a number of European countries.   

 

This has only addressed colleges.   Many of the Calvary Chapel churches have K-12 schools on their campuses.

 

You will also find Distance Learning and Learning Sites where one can go to learn more about the Word of God.

 

A third button is Find A Church  Take a look at this and you will see literally thousands of churches, many in the mega-church size all across America and in many other countries -- all which have grown out of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.

 

And, the fourth button is About Heaven --  where one can go to learn what is needed to gain salvation.

 

So, BeterCon, Pastor Chuck Smith started with a church of about 20 people in 1965 at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (California).  From that core group of Pastor Chuck and about 20 people -- all of these many thousands of church fellowships around the world, and many colleges and K-12 schools have begun.  And, many hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of people have come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior through these churches and schools. 

 

Through Pastor Chuck Smith's guidance, Pastor Greg Laurie began Harvest International Christian Fellowship and the Harvest Crusades, which takes the Gospel to millions of people.   Also through Pastor Chuck's guidance, Pastor Mike McIntosh began Horizon Christian Fellowship in San Diego -- and this has grown into a network of Horizon churches and mission organizations.   These and a number of other networks of Christian fellowships, all associated with Calvary Chapel, have all sprung from the humble beginnings of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa since 1965.

 

In the late 1960s, Pastor Chuck and Mike McIntosh began Maranatha! Music and created the Contemporary Christian Music industry.  They found the musicians, encouraged them to create and record the simpler Christian music which young people could understand -- and, Mike put boxes of cassettes in the trunk of his car and took them to Christian book stores to encourage them to help this fledgling music genre grow.

 

That is what Pastor Chuck Smith has accomplished for the kingdom of God.

 

Now, please tell us what BeterCon has accomplished for the kingdom of God.  How many people have you led to the Lord?  How many church fellowships have you started?   How many schools and colleges have you founded to teach the Word of God to others?   How many Crusades can you say that you have begun?

 

Basically, what I am asking, BeterCon -- is what have you done for the Lord -- except complain and denigrate those Christian workers who ARE working to grow His kingdom?

 

And, if you cannot answer those questions -- maybe you can find it in your Christian heart to pray for Pastor Chuck.  That is, if your legalism will allow you to pray for someone who is not COC.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

"Pastor" Chuck preaches a false gospel, Bill.  That he has so many followers is thus a tragedy, because they have been led to rely on a false gospel.

 

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21


"Pastor" Chuck preaches the incomplete, inadequate, and false gospel that teaches that one need only say a "sinner's prayer" and ask Jesus to come into his heart and that salvation is absolutely, irrevocably assured from that point forward. Nowhere in scripture is that "gospel" sanctioned.  Read Romans 6:1-11; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; I Peter 3:21.  "Pastor Chuck" does not teach what these scriptures teach. See also I Peter 2 and Hebrews 61-8 and 10: 26-31,which conclusively teach that a saved person can indeed be lost


"Pastor" Chuck should be telling believing, convicted sinners what Peter taught believing, convicted sinners when he preached to the very ones who had crucified Jesus.  See Acts 2:36-41. Why does he tell them something different from what a Holy Spirit-inspired apostle taught?

I too disagree with many of Chuck Smith's views. However, I am sorry to hear he has cancer - such a terrible disease, and I will pray for him, just as I prayed for Hitchens, and just as I pray for my friend Kelly who is also in a struggle with cancer. It doesn't matter WHO it is, or WHAT they believe, we who pray should pray for anyone who is undergoing such trials - and even for those who aren't!

 

 

Jimi, you're such an idiot. What makes you think God gave this man cancer? Read the book of Job. If you can read and understand what you read you'll see that satan can cause affliction to God's people. Not only that but not everything is caused by God or satan. Sometimes things happen and it's just part of LIFE. No one has to cause it.

So allen, if he gets cured, or the cancer goes into remission, that won't be god, satan, or man doing it? That will be "something that just happened"?  BTW, I do agree that it would be something that just happened for him and maybe not others, or happened for others and not him. However, if it happens for him, the christians will be declaring gawd did it.

Originally Posted by Allen7233:

Jimi, you're such an idiot. What makes you think God gave this man cancer? Read the book of Job. If you can read and understand what you read you'll see that satan can cause affliction to God's people. Not only that but not everything is caused by God or satan. Sometimes things happen and it's just part of LIFE. No one has to cause it.

Speaking of idiots, look in the mirror. God created cancer. It didn't just happen. If you are going to give him credit for sunsets and flowers, you also have to throw in Aids, cancer, childhood leukemia, VD, and a large per cent age of pregnancies ending in mis-carriage.

Hi BeterCon,

 

If you want to believe, in your legalistic haze, that you have to work your way into heaven through baptism and other works -- God help you -- for when will you KNOW that you have done enough works to earn heaven?

 

And, if you want to wander in your legalistic haze, always looking over your shoulder in fear that you may stub you toe and lose your salvation -- go for it. 

 

BeterCon, let me ask you a question.  Since you have been a Christian believer -- have you ever made a mistake and sinned?  If not, then you are perfect -- and Jesus Christ did not have to go the cross for mankind -- you could have done it instead.

 

However, since God DID send Jesus Christ as the ONLY perfect Man to die in our place -- and since Romans 3:23 tells us that ALL people, and this includes believers (even those in legalistic churches), DO SIN -- I have to draw the assumption that YOU do sin and make mistakes.  Based upon that and your belief that a true believer can lose his/her salvation -- then, YOU must have lost your salvation.

 

So, BeterCon, are you saved or are you not saved?  If you say you are saved -- then, that proves that a Christian believer does not lose his/her salvation when we make a mistake and sin.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Savior - Not Religion-1b

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quote: Originally Posted by O No!:

I too disagree with many of Chuck Smith's views.  However, I am sorry to hear he has cancer - such a terrible disease, and I will pray for him, just as I prayed for Hitchens, and just as I pray for my friend Kelly who is also in a struggle with cancer.  It doesn't matter WHO it is, or WHAT they believe, we who pray should pray for anyone who is undergoing such trials - and even for those who aren't!


 Hi O,

 

Like you, there are issues where I will disagree with Pastor Chuck.  But, that is not unusual.  I have been a Christian believer since 1987 -- and I have yet to meet a pastor, teacher, scholar, or theologian with whom I agree 100% of the time.

 

This is why most folks will recommend that when you are looking to buy a library of commentaries -- do not buy all commentaries written by one single author.  You will find, with all commentary writers, that their commentary on one book of the Bible may be great -- and, yet, on another book, their writing may be weak.   For whichever book of the Bible you are studying -- get several different commentaries from various authors.  Soon, you will discover which is more attuned to that particular Bible book.

 

And, in the same way, in sermons I will occasionally disagree with the pastor.  When this happens, I do not hesitate to visit that pastor privately to discuss the issue.  Sometimes we agree.  Other times, we agree to disagree -- but, we remain Christian brothers and friends.

 

O, if you had said that you agree with Pastor Chuck, or any pastor, 100% of the time -- I would have to question if you are mature in your knowledge of God's Word.  So, when you tell me that you disagree at times with Pastor Chuck -- all I can say is, "You go, girl!  Stay in the Word -- and continue to be a Berean (Acts 17:11)."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Shalom

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Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Then, who made all the bad things? Obama?
Jimi, you just proved that you don't pay much attention to who is posting what. If you did you would know that I respect our president and plan to vote for him again.
And your question has been answered SO many times. The way I see it, God made the laws of science at the time He created the universe. Because of the way the laws of science work, sometimes bad things like tornadoes and earthquakes and illnesses happen.  I suppose you could rail against the laws of science, but it would be as pointless as railing against the God you don't believe in.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi BeterCon,

 

If you want to believe, in your legalistic haze, that you have to work your way into heaven through baptism and other works -- God help you -- for when will you KNOW that you have done enough works to earn heaven?

 

And, if you want to wander in your legalistic haze, always looking over your shoulder in fear that you may stub you toe and lose your salvation -- go for it. 

 

BeterCon, let me ask you a question.  Since you have been a Christian believer -- have you ever made a mistake and sinned?  If not, then you are perfect -- and Jesus Christ did not have to go the cross for mankind -- you could have done it instead.

 

However, since God DID send Jesus Christ as the ONLY perfect Man to die in our place -- and since Romans 3:23 tells us that ALL people, and this includes believers (even those in legalistic churches), DO SIN -- I have to draw the assumption that YOU do sin and make mistakes.  Based upon that and your belief that a true believer can lose his/her salvation -- then, YOU must have lost your salvation.

 

So, BeterCon, are you saved or are you not saved?  If you say you are saved -- then, that proves that a Christian believer does not lose his/her salvation when we make a mistake and sin.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Savior - Not Religion-1b

___

Bill, your theology is simplistic and shallow and the pity is that you do not realize this.

 

I never held that a single sin by a believer would cause him/her to be lost. As the apostle John taught, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (I John 1:8).

The "we" of whom John wrote were his brethren in Christ. This same John, in 3:9 of the same book, wrote, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him." 

 

The seeming contradiction here is no contradiction at all.  The concept is understood from the Greek to mean, in the case of Chapter 3, "whosoever goes on sinning," i.e. whose direction of life is that of habitually sinning, not the occasional lapses that the faithful Christian will inevitably have.

 

You seem to have once more skirted those several scriptures I cited that clearly teach that a once-saved person can indeed be lost, Bill.  Those scriptures must make you very uncomfortable. You also continue to insist that baptism is a work of merit, which is not taught in the scriptures.  Baptism, no less than faith and repentance, is part of the sinner's response to the saving work of God in Christ.  You must agree that repentance is required for salvation.  Is repentance therefore a "work"?  And if repentance (which is something that man MUST DO)  is NOT a work, then what makes baptism a work? Consistency is sorely lacking in your characterization of baptism as a "work."

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Hey, Billy!!?! I thought you said God answers prayers.  If that's true, all you gotta do is pray & wa la!!


Hi Chick,

 

I think the word you have in mind is "voilà."   According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary it means a word used to call attention, to express satisfaction or approval, or to suggest an appearance as if by magic.


On the subject of prayer -- yes, God does answer all prayers of believers.  That is a fact.  However, His answer is not always, "Yes."   His answer may be "Yes" or "No" -- or "Wait a while."  You see, Chick, God's plan, his thoughts, are much higher than ours.


I have personally had prayers answered in all these ways.  I have had prayers answered with an immediate YES -- and I had a positive response within a very short time.  I have had prayers answered with NO -- and, I can only attribute this to God's greater wisdom.  And, I have had prayers answered WAIT A WHILE.  


Regarding the third alternative WAIT A WHILE, many times I have needed funds for what I thought was an extremely great need.  Yet, when I prayed about it -- no check came at that time.  However, almost invariably, when the check did arrive -- that was when my need for it was greatest.  We can never out guess or second guess God.


This is what I found on the Blue Letter Bible web site:  http://www.blueletterbible.org


Why Do So Many Prayers Seem To Go Unanswered?

By Don Stewart, Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa

http://www.blueletterbible.org...t/stewart.cfm?id=547


Christians often complain that God did not answer their prayers.  But such is not the case.  All of our prayers are answered.

The Answer May Be No:  Sometimes God answers our requests by saying no.  God has also promised to give us the grace to accept any answer that he gives us.  Not everything we pray for is granted.  The Apostle Paul said of his experience:

 

"Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.  And He said to Me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness"  (2 Corinthians 12:8,9).


In this case the prayer of the Apostle Paul was answered -- but it was answered differently than he expected.

Saying No Is For Our Benefit:   Christians have to remember that God only has the believers best interest in mind.  When He says no to our prayers, He does it for our best.  The Apostle Paul wrote about God answering no to one of his prayers:

 

"Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.  But He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.  Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me" (2 Corinthians 12:8,9).


Wait:  Often times God does not give us a yes or no answer but rather says for us to wait.  A delayed answer is not necessarily a no answer.  A case in point can be found in Scripture with Zacharias -- the father of John the Baptist.  God delayed the answer to the prayer of he and his wife to have a child. The reason is that God had something in mind that was better than they ever dreamed.  Their child was to be the forerunner of the Messiah.  Yet they had to wait until they were very old before they saw the birth of this child because of God's timing.  They wanted a son but got a prophet instead.

Can Have Bad Result:  There are occasions when the granting of our requests can have detrimental result.  An example of this would be Hezekiah.   When the prophet Isaiah informed Hezekiah that he was about to die he prayed to God to prolong his life.   God granted his request and gave him fifteen extra years to live.  However in those fifteen years two things occurred that had terrible consequences on the future of his people.  Hezekiah showed the Babylonians the great treasures of the Temple.  One hundred years later these same Babylonians plundered the Temple and its treasures.

Evil Son:  He also conceived a son in those fifteen years who became one of the worst kings in the nation's history.  His name was Manasseh.  Manasseh led the people into all types of idolatry and idol worship and caused the nations to stray away from the service of the Lord.


The Bible says: 
"So He gave them their request, but sent a wasting disease among them" (Psalm 106:15).


Sin:  The Bible indicates that sin can hinder our prayers being answered in an affirmative manner. The psalmist wrote:


"If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear" (Psalm 66:18).


Honor (Only) With Their Mouths:  The prophet Isaiah records the Lord as saying:

 

"Inasmuch as these people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but they have removed their hearts far from Me" (Isaiah 29:13).


Marital Problems:   Marital problems can hinder the granting of prayer requests:

 

"Likewise you husbands, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered" (1 Peter 3:7).


Lack Of Faith:  Sometimes a lack of faith can keep our prayers from being answered:

 

"But let the person ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.  For let not that person suppose that they will receive anything from the Lord" (James 1:6,7).


Not According To His Will: 
Often times our prayers are answered with a no because it is not according to His will.

 

"This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us" (1 John 5:14).


Summary:  There are several reasons why prayers seem to go unanswered though all prayers are indeed answered.  One of the answers that God gives is, No.  God also may answer with, Wait. Whatever the case may be, God does answer all the prayers of believers.

So, Chick, God will answer our prayers for Pastor Chuck Smith.  And, whichever answer we receive will be a blessing to Pastor Chuck.   If he is to stay on longer at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa -- that will be a blessing to him, that he may continue to teach and to share the Gospel. 


If God's answer is that He wants Pastor Chuck in heaven -- then, that is a promotion and we know that he will be very happy to be with his personal Lord and Savior whom he has served faithfully for over 60 years.   Either way -- it is a Win-Win situation for Pastor Chuck.


Yes, those left behind will mourn our loss of his presence among us.  But, even more joyfully, we will celebrate Pastor Chuck's Home Going.


God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,


Bill

1 - Welcome-Home-HOME

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quote:  Originally Posted by Contendah:
Bill, your theology is simplistic and shallow and the pity is that you do not realize this.

 

I never held that a single sin by a believer would cause him/her to be lost. As the apostle John taught, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (I John 1:8).  The "we" of whom John wrote were his brethren in Christ.  This same John, in 3:9 of the same book, wrote,"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him."


Hi BeterCon,

 

You quote:  "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him."  (1John 3:6)

 

So, do you abide in Him?   Does this mean that you NEVER sin?  Isn't that the way you are interpreting this verse?

 

And, does this verse in 1 John 3:6 negate the following verses?

 

Colossians 2:13, "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses."

 

James 5:15, "And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.  And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

 

1 John 2:12, "I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake."


Does one verse negate all other verses?  No.  The Bible must be taken as a complete entity in developing any theology.  We are told in the Bible that if we are believers and repent of our sins -- He is faithful to forgive us.   "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).      


You tell me, "I never held that a single sin by a believer would cause him/her to be lost." 

         

Okay, one sin will not cause a believer to lose his/her salvation.  Just how many sins will cause this to happen?   What number of sins can we commit before we lose our salvation?

 

And, in the same line of thought -- how much, or how many, works does one have to do to earn heaven?   When will one know if he/she has earned enough points through works to rest and know they have attained eternal life with God?

 

BeterCon, do you see the pitfalls of such a theology?  Believe it or not -- salvation is simple. 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

My Friend, why do you work so hard to complicate what Jesus Christ has paid so dearly to make simple and easy for us?  Jesus tells us, "My gift of salvation to you is free."   Yet, you demand, "No, I want to work for it!" 

 

Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

 

Please do not try to negate what Jesus Christ has done for us.  Salvation is simple!  Accept it and thank God for His mercy and grace.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Savior - Not Religion-1b

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

I think the word you have in mind is "voilà."

______________________

No, I used the words I meant to use, which were wa la!!!

(for your info, it means the same thing as voila)

 

As for the rest of your book, I didn't read it all but you answered the part about prayer just as I figured you would. It's the same cop out answer I get with most Christians.


Hi Chick,

 

You are correct that the phonetic spelling you used is acceptable.  But, in all the years I have been reading and in all the years I have been writing, I have never seen the word written the way you have chosen.  Not that I am saying it is wrong; just not what one will see when reading proper English. 

 

You tell me, "As for the rest of your book, I didn't read it all but you answered the part about prayer just as I figured you wouldIt's the same cop out answer I get with most Christians."

 

All we Christians can do is to give you the truth.  If you do not want to accept that -- there is nothing else we can tell you.   If you want to deny that God answers your prayers -- you are probably right.  But, he does answer the prayers of believers.

 

And, He will answer YOUR prayers -- if you will begin with, "Lord, I am a sinner and I need your forgiveness.  I believe you came to earth in human form to make atonement for the sins of all people -- and that all who accept Your free gift will be forgiven and will become children of God.  I want You to be my Lord and Savior from this moment on and into eternity.  I pray this in your holy name,  Amen."

 

Chick, if you will begin by sincerely praying that prayer, or a similar one in your own words (nothing magic about the words -- only what is in your heart) -- I promise He will answer that prayer and ALL other prayers you pray after that.  What have you got to lose -- except unanswered prayers and an eternity without God?  On the other hand, if you will sincerely ask Him into your life -- you will be amazed at the change in your life -- and, in the lives of all in your family.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Get over yourself, Bill!


Hi Chick,

 

It is not about me.  It is about Jesus Christ -- and my sincere desire to see you have a saving relationship with Him.  Nothing more, nothing less.

 

You, and all of us, will meet Him face to face one day.  It will be eternally better if that meeting is as a believer.  That is my greatest desire and prayer for you -- and for all of our non-believing Friends.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Then, who made all the bad things? Obama?
Jimi, you just proved that you don't pay much attention to who is posting what. If you did you would know that I respect our president and plan to vote for him again.
And your question has been answered SO many times. The way I see it, God made the laws of science at the time He created the universe. Because of the way the laws of science work, sometimes bad things like tornadoes and earthquakes and illnesses happen.  I suppose you could rail against the laws of science, but it would be as pointless as railing against the God you don't believe in.

 

This is truly idiotic "reasoning".

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by Contendah:
Bill, your theology is simplistic and shallow and the pity is that you do not realize this.

 

I never held that a single sin by a believer would cause him/her to be lost. As the apostle John taught, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (I John 1:8).  The "we" of whom John wrote were his brethren in Christ.  This same John, in 3:9 of the same book, wrote,"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him."


Hi BeterCon,

 

You quote:  "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither known him."  (1John 3:6)

 

So, do you abide in Him?   Does this mean that you NEVER sin?  Isn't that the way you are interpreting this verse?

 

And, does this verse in 1 John 3:6 negate the following verses?

 

Colossians 2:13, "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses."

 

James 5:15, "And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.  And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

 

1 John 2:12, "I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake."


Does one verse negate all other verses?  No.  The Bible must be taken as a complete entity in developing any theology.  We are told in the Bible that if we are believers and repent of our sins -- He is faithful to forgive us.   "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).      


You tell me, "I never held that a single sin by a believer would cause him/her to be lost." 

         

Okay, one sin will not cause a believer to lose his/her salvation.  Just how many sins will cause this to happen?   What number of sins can we commit before we lose our salvation?

 

And, in the same line of thought -- how much, or how many, works does one have to do to earn heaven?   When will one know if he/she has earned enough points through works to rest and know they have attained eternal life with God?

 

BeterCon, do you see the pitfalls of such a theology?  Believe it or not -- salvation is simple. 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

My Friend, why do you work so hard to complicate what Jesus Christ has paid so dearly to make simple and easy for us?  Jesus tells us, "My gift of salvation to you is free."   Yet, you demand, "No, I want to work for it!" 

 

Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

 

Please do not try to negate what Jesus Christ has done for us.  Salvation is simple!  Accept it and thank God for His mercy and grace.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Savior - Not Religion-1b

___

 

Once more, Bill, since you continue to ignore this argument as you resort to your (and "Pastor" Chuck's) oversimplified, cheapened and inadequate version of the gospel::

 

You seem to have once more skirted those several scriptures I cited that clearly teach that a once-saved person can indeed be lost, Bill.  Those scriptures must make you very uncomfortable. You also continue to insist that baptism is a work of merit, which is not taught in the scriptures.  Baptism, no less than faith and repentance, is part of the sinner's response to the saving work of God in Christ.  You must agree that repentance is required for salvation.  Is repentance therefore a "work"?  And if repentance (which is something that man MUST DO)  is NOT a work, then what makes baptism a work? Consistency is sorely lacking in your characterization of baptism as a "work."


And once more on THIS issue also, since you decline so far to meaningfully address it: 
 

<<<<"Pastor" Chuck preaches the incomplete, inadequate, and false gospel that teaches that one need only say a "sinner's prayer" and ask Jesus to come into his heart and that salvation is absolutely, irrevocably assured from that point forward. Nowhere in scripture is that "gospel" sanctioned.  Read Romans 6:1-11; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; I Peter 3:21.  "Pastor Chuck" does not teach what these scriptures teach. See also I Peter 2 and Hebrews 61-8 and 10: 26-31,which conclusively teach that a saved person can indeed be lost

 

"Pastor" Chuck should be telling believing, convicted sinners what Peter taught believing, convicted sinners when he preached to the very ones who had crucified Jesus.  See Acts 2:36-41. Why does he tell them something different from what a Holy Spirit-inspired apostle taught?>>>>

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Then, who made all the bad things? Obama?
Jimi, you just proved that you don't pay much attention to who is posting what. If you did you would know that I respect our president and plan to vote for him again.
And your question has been answered SO many times. The way I see it, God made the laws of science at the time He created the universe. Because of the way the laws of science work, sometimes bad things like tornadoes and earthquakes and illnesses happen.  I suppose you could rail against the laws of science, but it would be as pointless as railing against the God you don't believe in.

 

This is truly idiotic "reasoning".

___________________________________________________________________________

No more idiotic than believing in reincarnation, for which there is no proof either.

 

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Then, who made all the bad things? Obama?
Jimi, you just proved that you don't pay much attention to who is posting what. If you did you would know that I respect our president and plan to vote for him again.
And your question has been answered SO many times. The way I see it, God made the laws of science at the time He created the universe. Because of the way the laws of science work, sometimes bad things like tornadoes and earthquakes and illnesses happen.  I suppose you could rail against the laws of science, but it would be as pointless as railing against the God you don't believe in.

 

This is truly idiotic "reasoning".

___________________________________________________________________________

No more idiotic than believing in reincarnation, for which there is no proof either.

 

There is considerable proof for reincarnation. Also my question about "bad things" has never been answered. Why do "Christians" lie all the time?Isn't that against HIS rules?

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Then, who made all the bad things? Obama?
Jimi, you just proved that you don't pay much attention to who is posting what. If you did you would know that I respect our president and plan to vote for him again.
And your question has been answered SO many times. The way I see it, God made the laws of science at the time He created the universe. Because of the way the laws of science work, sometimes bad things like tornadoes and earthquakes and illnesses happen.  I suppose you could rail against the laws of science, but it would be as pointless as railing against the God you don't believe in.

 

This is truly idiotic "reasoning".

___________________________________________________________________________

No more idiotic than believing in reincarnation, for which there is no proof either.

 

There is considerable proof for reincarnation. Also my question about "bad things" has never been answered. Why do "Christians" lie all the time?Isn't that against HIS rules?

___________________________________________________________________________

Jimi, just because you don't LIKE the answer doesn't mean it hasn't been given. I myself have explained my take on it many many times, as have other Christians. So no, it wasn't a lie. It is just an answer that you disagree with. But the reason I and others have said it is because that IS the answer that WE have to your question. Do you see the difference?

 

Now, on the question of reincarnation, unlike you, I won't question your BELIEF. But you have said many times that, "There is considerable proof for reincarnation", but you have yet to provide us with any of that proof.

 

Now, if you want to have real dialog, why don't you show us what you are talking about? You have asked Christians many times to provide proof for our beliefs, and I have told you many times that that it is MY belief that because God wants us to love Him through faith, there will NEVER be "proof." Once again, it is MY answer. It may not be an answer you agree with, but it is an honest answer about MY beliefs.

 

So, I say there can be no proof of my beliefs, but you say there IS proof for yours. I am asking you politely to share that proof. How about it?

 

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