Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
I only ask for proof when someone claims to have it. Since there is no proof, nor will there ever be, they never provide any. There is simply no logical reason to "believe" in god. Never has been. Never will be.
One problem, with your reasoning Jimi, as far as choosing who or what to base your Faith on or in.
While, from a Scientific or Physical point of view, true, there is no proof of God's existence the same can be said about the lack of God's Existence. In other words from a Scientific perspective it cannot be proven God exist nor can it be proven that God does not exist so it's a wash.
Christians however, myself included in that number, say that our basis of belief and faith in God has very real tangible proof sufficient for each of us. That proof is from God Himself and is in the form of God's Holy Spirit. God IS Spirit and therefore outside the ability of Science to catalog, test, recognize or classify. Christians and believers also state that although there is no Scientific proof of God's existence there is secondary evidence to His existence.
You have Jesus Christ who claimed to be God's Spirit in Human form the Father/Son/Holy Spirit in human flesh, a personal statement which was reinforced by miracles and even the raising of some humans from the grave/death.
You also have the testimony of millions of believers/Christians who state and testify that God manifest Himself unto them, lives and dwells within their bodies along with their inner, created, spirit/soul and confirms, at least to them in a more than sufficient way, that God is real. You have their testimonies and although yes it's one persons word against another there is a huge number of people who report and testify to the exact same thing. Even NSNS's flying spaghetti monster doesn't have that kind of testimony or following. Atheist and non-believers will say that those who make such testimony are just fooling themselves and that it isn't real, that they are delusional, but I suggest that this response is the only logical one they could have given the options. If these people's testimony is to be considered possibly or potentially valid then God's existence is a possibility and potentially valid and the evidence or proof has just not come to those who have not experienced it and the question then is why have they not experienced or realized this?
Thirdly there is secondary proof in creation itself. While you or other atheist or Science may not recognize creation as valid you do so and reject it out of your own ignorance as you disallow any possibly of it because that would mean God potentially exist and you nor they can ever give consideration to that possibility. You claim dogmatically, emphatically without no proof to the contrary, that God doesn't exist yet you cannot prove that God doesn't exist you can only present a theory or hypothesis that God doesn't exist because frankly you don't want to consider the ramifications of a deity/God existing or being real. The order of the universe, the fact that life exist and that planets and matter appear and interact testify to God's (or a Creator's) existence. While I am not qualified to present the mathematical percentages in favor of life and man's existence being uniquely special and the order of things being as they are such as life ceasing to exist if our planet was one fraction closer to the sun or one fraction of a distance away. Many other circumstances exist and are presentable to provide secondary proof that something other than an accident had to be responsible for man's existence and for creation as a whole.
You and other atheist/non-believers create a situation where you must believe and rely on creation/mass/everything and life coming from NOTHING or as in a "Big Bang". The infinite coming from a finite or an impossibility. By seeking, or having, to eliminate God or a deity or Creator or Intelligent process from the act or process of Creation you, and others, seek, and only can provide a process that human mankind can understand and comprehend or generate yourselves. You dictate that the process has to be able to be comprehended and therefore should be reproducible and verifiable in such a way that there is no question or possibility that an alternate method exist. The reason a dumbing down of the theory or process of how things were created is necessary in order for the elimination of God as a possible or potential source of creation. This yields people/scientist who claim everything came from nothing or the infinite came from the finite, which is an impossibility that is totally beyond the ability to reproduce yet it is generally accepted as fact by the very people who refuse to acknowledge that there is any possibility that a God exist. What rubbish.
It is also our, and some other Christians, suggestion that matter/creation/"the Physical" came into existence out of and by a process which is totally beyond the conception of humankind (man/woman). That our limited intelligence and mind cannot conceive of such nor can it comprehend the power and process by which the physical existence and realm could come from the Spiritual. Yes the Spiritual which is the realm of God. A realm and existence that also is beyond human conception and understanding and beyond the ability of Science to test, quantify, or examine.
Think of it this way, Jimi, like your typical responses on these forums. The inability to create a substantial argument/reply and the presentation of a position of substance leads to a rather short, usually terse, one or two word reply usually detrimental toward another forum members intelligence and attacking the person rather than the argument or their position with your own substance and facts or documentation. It ends up usually being a feeble attempt at deflection from a reasoning process with regards to whatever argument/dialog is being presented. As you say "never has been, never will be".
