Praying for Rain

You have a  very ignorant and simplistic view or religion especially given you are obsessed with it.  I think we all know what this is about.  Maybe you should just accept being bald and your willy not working.

LMAO Thanks NSNS I needed a laugh to get me going this morning.

 

I feel bad for the people of Texas though. They do need rain. I hope it happens for them soon. To have such a horrible drought AND  Rick Perry as governor has got to be quite a burden.

You forgot the worse burden of all, obama as president.

If Rick Perry is the Republican candidate for president, I'll be voting for Obama - even though I didn't vote for him before.

 

Texas deserves what they get.  They are more interested in football and guns than who is qualified to run their state, which is also why Alabama deserves what it gets.

If I had to vote for obama I'd just stay home.

Hi Deep,

 

While you are gloating over the misery of those caught in this drought; maybe you should throw in a few smiles and chuckles over those people in Africa suffering from the same.  While I realize this thrills your atheist heart -- I find it rather low. 

 

By the way, you forgot to gloat over the fact that Hawaii is also having drought problems -- according to your chart, especially Oahu and the big island of Hawaii.  So, according to your logic, we can attribute this to the fact that Obama claims he was born there.  I wonder how the drought problem is in Kenya?

 

Yes, my Friend -- George Bush and God has caused all of this!   Duh!

 

I am surprised you have not blamed all Southerners, especially those from the Shoals area, whom you despise so much for being ignorant Bible readers.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

OK bill, I know it won't do one bit of good but how about you explain how nsns is gloating over people suffering from a drought. You are so eager to spew your vile and hatred that you do just what the left does-take a statement and twist it to mean something it didn't. What are you doing to help people?  You are as low as it can get bill, and anytime you can twist and lie about people it thrills your old stone cold heart. You don't give one flying flip about the people in africa. If you did you'd make sure the churches got up off their billions of dollars and did something for them.

 

No American deserves Obama. Not even those who foolishly voted for Change and inexperiance.

Tell me Crusty why would you commit to such a person as Obama again? What has he done that you so admire?

Skippy

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Because in these troubled times, I'm forced to vote for the lesser evil.  And in this case, the Republican possibilities are just too wacko.  Ron Paul is starting to look good - if he just wouldn't always take that last step into insanity, I might be able to get on board.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Nope. I've answered it before, Vic has answered it, Veep answered it (thats how many times you've asked), and several others. Except for the fact that you were more polite to Veep when you rejected HER answer, it's always been the same. So if you want to know what our answers were, I'm afraid you're going to have to look it up.

 

Oh, and by the way, your insults are getting old too. "Fundie poo?"

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Maybe God caused the drought.

Naw, the drought is Bush's fault. He used that same weather machine he used for hurricane katrina.

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That God gave him.

Haaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!  Wrong and wrong.  However, that is the charitable Christian response I expected.

 

Millions of Texans have prayed fer relief from drought and wildfires.  God is not listening.  When will it sink in that god does not exist, and prayers are a wishful thinking excuse for not doing anything constructive?

 

DF

wishful thinking excuse for not doing anything constructive?

 

Seems they are doing everything they can to fight the fires. What more would you suggest?

I would suggest they stop praying for fire relief and reinstate the massive cuts in fire protection that Rick Perry pushed through the legislature.

 

DF

From what I read, Texas has about 75% volunteer fire departments. How do you cut volunteers from the budget?

 

Most of the State of Texas is protected by volunteer departments. There are 879 volunteer departments compared to 114 paid departments and 187 departments that are a combination of both paid and volunteer firefighters.

 

deep, if praying to God doesn't help maybe the atheist will step up and put them out.....or are you just wanting to make your unplesant sounds [noise]?

uno,,,You don't deserve the answer thats been given many times here.

You don't really want an answer, you just want to pick your nose.

.

 

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since you are "all ears":

One possibility you might want to consider unoi, God may be having second thoughts about the severity reserved for your portion of hell and he is busy making sure you are going to regret going there.

You know, taking up a lot of his time. Just sayin’

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I know the answer....

 

There is no God. Simple enough.

 

Praying: the least effective thing that you can do.

You’ll be “hittin’ some weird chants” come judgement day jimbo when you smell that brimstone burnin’ ole deep and unoi’s rusties.

And the answer that the believers insist they have given "over and over" is, of course, the old argument of "free will."  As if that answers anyhting at all.

The funny thing, to me, is that I am certain that none of the believers here even grasp the fundamentals of the philosophical concept of "free will."  I could make a very cogent argument that "free will" does not exist in this universe.  I could equally argue that it does.

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The not so funny thing to me is you're serious about your silly notion

of understanding anything about Free Will. I could equally argue

that you only exist on paper. Without paper, you never were.

 

.

Hi O No,

 

First, I want to thank you for your liver and onions analogy.  And, then, I want to invite you to take a look at the new discussion titled "Liver/Onions And Christianity - Say What?" inspired by your comment.

 

We make a good team!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

You finally got one right!

 

 

I am starting to believe they are one in the same. I really can't tell where one ends and the other begins.

Really now.  I can remember, vividly, when I was a resident of Georgia, a few years back during a long period of no rain when Governor Sonny Perdue did exactly the same as Governor Perry did and He, as well as many Christians and others encouraged to do for a day of Prayer, Prayed very publicly for Rain to ease the very serious situation.  Lake Lanier and Lake Alatoona were at historic lows and drinking water for Atlanta was in serious jeopardy.  It was this very drought that sparked the controversy between Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia over Georgia claiming land for access to the Tennessee River around Lake Nickajack.  This article was one written about the severe drought that effected Georgia: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3730145&page=1

 

Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue, a Christian, Prayed, to God, for help from the drought and for rain:  Note the stories from the press nationwide:

 

http://www.wdef.com/news/gover...n_in_georgia/11/2007

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21...y-rain/#.Tm2iJU8vd9s

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3857886

http://articles.latimes.com/20.../14/nation/na-rain14

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...php?storyId=16281915

 

Georgia was the laughing stock of the nation and no rain was predicted or expected.  And the detractors came forth in droves lambasting the Governor and Christians for not praying for an end to hunger or the more weighty needs of the nation and state.

 

The next day/night there was hardly a patch of land in the whole state of Georgia that did not have some amount of rain land on it's soil.  It wasn't a deluge and sure didn't end the worries and troubles with the drought but it definitly rained at a time and on a day that it was not forecast to do so.  

 

http://www.governing.com/blogs...ta-Changes-Mind.html

http://www.wdef.com/video/gove...n_in_georgia/11/2007

 

Many parts of the state, including where my house was, receives copious amounts of rain, yes Rain just as it was prayed for.  It completely covered the State from North to South and East to West.  The critics that were so vocal in their lambasting of the Governor and laughing at the Christians had their answers ready also and lamented how little it was and how it would do no good.  It was not God but just an accident or a fluke but never the less it Rained.

 

Believe what you want, most do anyway, and will never be convinced but in this case it was not, as you say Jimi, "the least effective thing you can do".  

 

Does God answer all prayers?  NO.  God, from my understanding and reading of Scriptures, only guarantees to answer one pray of the sinner and that is for Forgiveness and Salvation.  Many Prayers seemingly go unanswered but are actually answered but not always in our time on our schedules.  Also God does not always answer our prayers with the outcome that we, Christians, ask for and desire but as Christians who keep in fellowship with God and grieve not His Holy Spirit have access to God through His Holy Spirit who takes our needs and request direct to God the Father in terms, not words, that often we do not understand or comprehend.  

 

Romans 8:26-28 (ESV)
{26} Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
{27} And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
{28} And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Many people, unfortunately many Christians, base their belief or feeling about God based upon what they want and ask in Prayer.  Little and few times do we stop to wonder why, sometimes, prayers are not answered as we would like.  

 

Could be we do not ask according to God's Will in mind but ask selfishly and for our own gain or benefit.

Could be we ask at a time when our relationship with God is strained or not there and we have been disobedient and allowed sin to reign in our lives clouding the relationship between God and us and grieving the Holy Spirit.  God seeks our prayer for forgiveness and requirest this first.

Could be we received an answer to our prayer but did not get what we wanted or didn't get it in the time frame that we desired?

Could be we were asking out of sincere desire but actually we or the person asking knew not God as God and Savior but ask God on a wager.  Do this for me and I'll do this for you and are surprised or angry when we don't get the answer we want.   There are many reasons why often Prayers seemingly go unanswered or are not answered in the way we want.  

Then also could be because the person is not one of God's and knows not God nor is God's Holy Spirit active and working within the person at the time of their greatest desire.  The Greatest need of any person is to know God and our Savior Christ Jesus and it is that Prayer, of a sinner, that God hears and is ready to answer.

 

As Christians we should rely upon the Scripture of Romans 8:28 and know that God is in Charge and that His Will be done.  

 

 

Praying for rain a day before rain is predicted by SCIENCE is not a miracle, moron!  Gosh!

I am praying for sunshine for the next two days.  You are welcome. 

And making a nieve statement like that also is no leap.   Either I did not say it or you did not read it but RAIN WAS PREDICTED IN THE SAME WAY by Science or by the Weather Channel and meteorologist for months but the key thing was it never came.  It was ALWAYS Predicted to be somewhere between 30% to 60% chance of rain but it always never materialized as they predicted. Cherry Picking this one day out and saying it was nothing special just shows you weren't living there at the time and experiencing it.   

 

There was even, a couple of weeks before the called Prayer day, a few days where the weather folks and scientist predicted the chances of rain to be 70% and one day 80% yet the rain fizzled out in Alabama and never came even with the high percentage of chance.  

 

Additionally, and this was also documented to the residents, there was hardly a plot of Georgia land that didn't see rain that over the next days.  It wasn't one county or all but three counties but EVERY COUNTY IN GEORGIA saw Rain the next 24 Hours.  Although Rain was predicted ,as it was in the past, it wasn't predicted to be as wide spread either so many counties were never predicted to have or see rain.  In fact most Counties, as was the case for months, were not forecast to see any rain.  Fulton County and some of the others were forecast as to likely or potentially see rain but again that was common and nothing out of the ordinary for this drought.

 

Discount what you want Uno the only real moronic thing to do is make such a statement as you did without actually living there and experiencing it, yourself, yet make statements as you just have.  You, like many others, cannot help yourself though it is ingrained into your mind and brain and psyche that all Christians are morons, "slow coaches" or that we are deficient or delusional in some way.  

We however understand that and the reasoning behind it.  It is a defense mechanism necessary because to consider any alternative that we may be telling the truth or may be on to something with your outright refusal to even consider such matters as valid would render you as mentally insufficient as you classify others to be.  Personal attacks is the modus operandi of most non-believers who are as woefully ignorant of Spiritual matters and of God and cannot adequately rationalize why so many people are certain of God and their salvation.  

The only two rational outcomes are that they are right and you are wrong or you are right and they are wrong.  Not being able to actually prove either of those you choose a third which is a cop out and that being that since you cannot prove that which you so strongly attest to then those who believe otherwise are mentally deficient and therefore you do not have to actually consider the argument that is presented against you or, in the case of this prayer, presented to support their side or position.

 

It is attack the person not the position because you are woefully inadequate to confront neither of the other.

They didn't one day pray for the drought to end and get rain the next.

So many have such a hard time acknowledging that a public prayer day was determined where they prayed for RAIN and then the prayer was answered within the next 24 hours in such a way that EVERY COUNTY in Georgia received RAIN, just what was prayed for.  

 

AS for the exact wording of the prayer and if it was for an end to the drought I cannot say for sure if it was for just rain or a total end to the drought but indeed the drought did end, not the next day but it did end, and Rain did fall on every county the next day.  

 

Accidental?  most skeptics and non-believers say definitely for they cannot dare to acknowledge or believe that God may have answered a very public and open prayer.  People certainly prayed throughout the drought as the are in Texas.  Cherry pick all you want as to try and discount what happened but the fact was that this happened and very much appears as a direct answer to the Governor's and states call to prayer.  

 

If you don't want to believe it then don't, no skin off me but I lived there, I saw it happen and transpire and I fully believe God Chose that moment to answer that specific prayer in a most demonstrative way in that ALL Counties of Georgia saw and experienced Rain in that next 24 hours.  Some areas it was forecast as being 40-50% probability just as many other days it didn't rain.  Other locations and counties had little to no chance forecast.  Fact was that it happened.   People can call it an accident or fluke or that it would have happened anyway but their statements are only to make themselves feel better about something they cannot explain.  

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No, I attack it because it is just plain stupid.

We were ALL experiencing a drought in that year, GB.  The drought was aleviated in the Fall of 2007 because fall is generally our wet season.  That is not a miracle, it's sciecne.

According to this, the prayer rally was held on November 13th, 2007.  I looked for weather forcast history and could not find any. But I did find historical maps here.  Following are some total rainfall maps from days prior to and after the rain:

 

November 12th:

Novermber 13th

 

November 14th

November 15th 2007:

So, my reality-denting friend, it did not take a d a m n rocket surgeon to predict rain a couple of days after the prayer.  

But if you are still convinced this rain was a gift from God, then will you please tell me why God hates Texas and why he ignored their prayers a couple of weeks ago?  

So many have such a hard time acknowledging that a public prayer day was determined where they prayed for RAIN and then the prayer was answered within the next 24 hours in such a way that EVERY COUNTY in Georgia received RAIN, just what was prayed for.

 

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Oh give it up. Do a search on the drought and read comments made by the people in Ga during that time. One title is "Why isn't prayer working"?  They did not pray for rain one day and get it "out of the blue" the next. I wonder why it is, that even if there's no drought, they can predict rain and it doesn't happen, or they predict nice weather and it pours??  Thus the joke,  a meterologist is right half the time and a weatherman is wrong half the time.

GBRK ignorantly proclaims: "I fully believe God Chose that moment to answer that specific prayer in a most demonstrative way in that ALL Counties of Georgia saw and experienced Rain in that next 24 hours.  Some areas it was forecast as being 40-50% probability just as many other days it didn't rain. "

It appears that (surprise) you are misinformed.  The southeast corner of Georgia didn't see rain according to the maps I posted.  Alabama, Tennessee and Kentucky did see rain in all 50 counties and (if I recall correctly) didn't have prayer rallies.  Wonder why God favors us over Georgia?

And you are also either lying or misinformed about the rain probability.  From the weather maps, it is clear that significant rain was headed that way days prior to the idiotic rain dance.

I recall thinking at the time, "These idiots are praying for rain at a time when rain is predicted. Hah!" Then I also recall thinking some some ignorant deluded doofus will almost certainly claim God performed a miracle despite the predictions.  Took a few years but I was right.   . . . Hey, I'm a prophet!  

The real question is do you have a Reading impediment or just an inability to comprehend what you read?  Please note the following quoted from my last post:

 

GBRK Posted "Accidental?  most skeptics and non-believers say definitely for they cannot dare to acknowledge or believe that God may have answered a very public and open prayer.  People certainly prayed throughout the drought as the are in Texas.  Cherry pick all you want as to try and discount what happened but the fact was that this happened and very much appears as a direct answer to the Governor's and states call to prayer.  "

I did find an error in my prior post.  That highlighted and underlined line should have ended with "as they are in Texas" rather than how it actually was entered.  Your reply to me Best, (apparently you are new,  or someone under a different ID)  seems to indicate that I failed to acknowledge that others prayed during the drought or only prayed that one day.  Clearly the highlighted portion of the partial reply that I repeated (copy/pasted) above indicates that I recognized that other Georgians prayed all throughout the drought.  So in your words, Best ... Give it up and try and read or comprehend what you read before you jump to conclusions or formulate your own uninformed opinions.

 

 

Determine as you wish and call up or post all the maps you can google but I was there, living south of Atlanta at the time and the News reports, Atlanta Journal Constitution as well as Macon stations and papers all reported that NO County in Georgia went without rain.  Do you not think many Christians, well aware of the publicized prayer, and the open ridicule leading up to the day it happened and on that day were not paying attention to the weather immediately after?  The Georgia reports, from Georgia stated that ALL Counties in Georgia experienced Rain, some more than others.  We were all hyper sensitive to the criticisms that were levied and would not remember a statement in the news about this?  All counties in Georgia received SOME Rain and there was not one County that remained Rainless.  

 

Print off your maps and post them on your walls and feel all proud that you have accomplished something but fact is you were not there were you?  Where exactly were you then and did you live that you could so dogmatically make such proclamations?  The FACT was also that Counties that had no rain forecasted at all saw rain.   Counties, including Fulton (Atlanta) and Gordon (Calhoun), Dekalb and many others had rain forecast at between 40-50% chance and the like for many days and weeks before yet saw no rain.  It was a probability but it fizzled out and the rainless drought continued until after the 13th.  You seem it was so certain to predict the rain based upon the predictions so please explain how for many days/weeks/months rain was forecast, like it was in some counties that day, yet the rain didn't come?  Explain this one to us then?

 

So typical .... you just know what everyone else doesn't even though you don't experience what they do or live where they do you feel justified in making proclamations as if you do.  Well you are WRONG and either your maps are wrong or just not reflective of what actually happened that day or either the Atlanta Journal Constitution, many Atlanta news stations and Macon Stations were in error for their news broadcast that All Counties in Georgia received SOME Rain. 

Give it up gb. Nothing miraculous happened. Do what I suggested and read what was going on during the drought. They did not just up and decide to pray, and then glory glory it began to rain!! And there were discussions all over the net like the one I read titled "Why isn't prayer working"? Didn't people pray hard enough in the 30's??

 

LeRoy Hankel remembers the dry years and what it did to his crops. He says, "We was praying for rain. But it just wouldn't rain." Yet, he also remembers that people, "just took everything in stride," despite what were really hard times.

 

 http://www.livinghistoryfarm.o...the30s/water_01.html

 

thank God for answering prayer for rain. And thank God for confusing the mind of his less-than- human transitional primate unoi.

The point of Georgia's rain in a drought period at a most critical time when drinking water reservoirs were within days if not hours of drying up to the point where water would not longer flow into the inlets is a matter of record and history.  The fact that a very public call for prayer was made and that all counties saw some rain the next day happened and was reported throughout Georgia.  What was reported in Alabama I have no idea as I wasn't here.  If you want to consider it an answer to the prayer or just happenstance or luck or a fluke then believe what you will.  

 

Explain away to make yourself as comfortable, as you want, the statements from millions of Christian believers that God answered their prayers whether for health, weather, or whatever.  Just as millions of Christians testify that God answers and hears their Prayers so they say that they know they are Saved through Christi Jesus and have experienced the power and presence of God's Holy Spirit.   Discount it however you wish to justify your own lack of those experiences or your own doubt and distrust it matters not to me for each has to answer for their own selves.  Your personal judgements against other Christians however are not justified and are not borne out by fact or experience but are rather frail attempts to justify inadequacies within ones own life by classifying another person as delusional or idiots or morons.  You and other's at times make such statements on here and off here yet are the very same ones that cast dispersions against Christians for being judgmental and condemning people to hell or ****ation.   I'm not saying such has not happened here or offline but I have yet to actually witness it and see it myself but I always see such statements made about my fellow believers and Christians.  Seems to me hypocrisy is not only limited to the religious.

I don't have to explain it "away" to make me comfortable, it doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. You didn't get any kind of miracle and if you think you did so be it. If I were you I'd be asking that god why he put you through all the torture before he finally decided to "make it rain". Do you even "hear" yourself??

The point of Georgia's rain in a drought period at a most critical time when drinking water reservoirs were within days if not hours of drying up to the point where water would not longer flow into the inlets is a matter of record and history.

 

 

Link? The one I found stated a three month supply before it ran out and it rained about two weeks later. Good things happen all the time to people that never pray. If prayer was that powerful this should be a lot better world.

  Your personal judgements against other Christians however are not justified and are not borne out by fact or experience but are rather frail attempts to justify inadequacies within ones own life by classifying another person as delusional or idiots or morons.  You and other's at times make such statements on here and off here yet are the very same ones that cast dispersions against Christians for being judgmental and condemning people to hell or ****ation.   I'm not saying such has not happened here or offline but I have yet to actually witness it and see it myself but I always see such statements made about my fellow believers and Christians.  Seems to me hypocrisy is not only limited to the religious.

 

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Feel better now? Ok, what does that little rant have to do with a drought? Or prayer?

So basically its like this. GK no matter what reasonable explanation anyone can show you about the rain that occurred in the South during the 2007 drought, you will remain convinced that God did it.  Facts mean nothing to you. Even though others prayed long before it rained, you still believe that eventually God did answer the prayers, it just so happened to coincide with a front moving in that had already been dumping rain on the North East. Ok.....you go right a head and believe what you want. It is your right of course.

Imagine what georgia would look like today if they hadn't prayed.

Unoi, I’ve admonished you before, don’t make absurd posts like this without allowing me to review them first. David Bohm disagrees with you. Not that a world renowned physicists is an opinion you would be interested in unoi but prayer does have an effect on the outside world as does your worthless attack on everything that moves regardless of it’s motive. It is in the interest of mankind that you shut up and don’t think.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

God can move a front, looks like the weather report just happemed to with

coincide with what God did at the time.

.

If prayer was so powerful then why can't you pray and make this forum go the way you want it to?

I don't need prayer for that for all I need is to make the same decision I made a while back and that is to remove myself from posting for a while and take a self imposed vacation from all the strife and turmoil and arguments.  Works like a gem for me so why make such a trivial request of God?   

 

God has answered my prayers before as I have no doubt He will continue to do and I will always respect HIS WILL and abide by it.  I've had my say now so for the Religion forum I shall make my leave for a while longer as nothing really ever changes in here except apparently the screen names of some of the participants.  The names may be new but the actions and retort of some indicate that they are not new to the forum in any way.  As I see fit or need to comment I will but for the most part it remains the same people with the same biases and prejudices and judgmental approach as they have always had and maintain.  May be entertainment to some but not essential for me to to enjoy life.  

And your little vacation didn't do you a lick of good. You're still whining.

They always seem to run when confronted with undeniable facts.  Wonder why that is?

 

Open some 3rd grade science books while you are gone, GB.  Seriously, it will do you some good. 

I can't speak for GB, but *I* would say that "they" always GIVE UP WHEN TALKING TO A WALL, is more like it.

This is why I say you are dishonest. YOU KNOW FULL WELL that I was protesting your insulting LANGUAGE to a man I consider a friend. GB and I don't agree on everything, but we have lively discussions through PM's, and even though we disagree about certain things, we NEVER call each other "a dim bulb", or "the village idiot".

 

But it is your regular practice to twist people's words and imply they mean something totally different from what they said. People complain when Bill assumes that people who disagree with him are in a cult church, but YOU just twist things to give yourself another opportunity to insult people.

 

Shall I stoop to YOUR level? OK, Unob, you're a lying idiot. You're totally incapable of understanding spiritual matters. You're not bright enough to understand a third grade science book, let alone the Bible.

 

Actually, those are NOT my opinions, but I just wanted to point out to you what you sound like.

 

My opinion IS however, that you are very dishonest in your writings here. And I just can't have any respect for a man who twists people's words the way you do.

It's just almost to silly to discuss.

Semi, I DID mention the way Bill has accused people of being cultists when they disagree with him. I am comparing Unob to Bill because HE does the same thing. Yes, Bill called me a new ager. And Unob is now calling me a fundie. Now, Bill KNOWS I am not a new ager, and Unob knows I am not a fundie. (We have discussed things like evolution and *** rights often enough for him to know that I believe in both those things. Do fundies? Of course not.)  When Bill has mischaracterized me, I've always protested and set him straight. Why should I not do the same with Unob?

 

 

 

Please check out my new discussion titled "My Apology To O No!"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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O No, maybe I misunderstood. When you said  “People complain” [when Bill assumes that people who disagree with him are in a cult church] I took it that you didn’t agree with those people.

I kind of compared your post about Unob to Bill. I just meant that those same things can apply to Bill, whom claims to be a Christian.

 

Nothing wrong at all if you feel the need to set Unob straight. You should try setting Bill straight, he might listen to you but I doubt it since he believes you to be a New Age Christian, which in his eyes, is not a Christian.

 

It wasn’t my intention to offend you, & I'm sorry if I did.

 

Uno,  whether you deliberately insert words into something a person says then react to those as if the person, themselves, said it originally I don't know.   You are incorrect in what you attribute to me.  You need to re-read my reply to Jimi as that is when I jumped in from my self imposed hiatus 

 

It was Jimi's insistence that Prayer was the most ineffective thing you can do that I was addressing. It was YOUR insertion of the 1/10th of an inch of rain.  FACT is that many places in Georgia, including the one where I lived, that received much more than the 1/10th that you state as if that fell uniformly over Georgia.  I based my statements that NO County went without rain upon actual media reports the days following from stations in Atlanta and Macon that I received on my radio and heard while watching TV Weather the following days and although I cannot produce the article I'm fairly sure I also read it in the Atlanta Journal that no county went totally dry.  

 

Did God do it?  I fully believe if God wished to answer those prayers that He did and is capable.  I do not though believe I made a pronouncement that GOD did this or that the rain was a fulfillment of the Governor's prayer as you indicate I did.  O NO was right you do are are twisting what I wrote.  Others on here have done the same with other topics and I no longer wish dialog with them and will not address her any longer.   It is useless to do so.   Is it useless to do the same with you?

 

You (Uno) state: GB insists God called the 1/10th of an inch of rain upon Georgia  So where did I insist this?  What reply?   I certainly feel the rain very much could have been in answer to the prayers.  What I enjoyed was the timing of it and how it made such fools of those who mocked the prayer.   For those skeptics that so abound here please also note that the prayer was called for and conceived long before the forecast of that day so your statements as if the Governor Cherry picked his date to coincide with a favorable forecast just does not hold water.  

 

My purpose for posting in this topic was to refute Jimi's statement (which I quoted) about prayer being the most ineffective thing.  I used Georgia's Governor's prayer day as just an example.  I do believe that it could be God answering his prayer but I do not believe, as you insist, that I insisted that it was.   You do and did mis-state what I said and then reacted to it as if I did say just that.  

 

I am also not getting into this why God answers some prayers and not others either.  I have, in a prior post under this topic, addressed prayers that seemingly go unanswered, prayers by other Christians and non-Christians.   You and other's personal references toward someone in a demeaning way only reflect your own inward inadequacies and inabilities to refer to specifics or admit that somewhere in these discussions that there are things beyond what you comprehend or what your own abilities permit.  You only reduce your own selves when you demean you fellow forum members for if anything is 3rd grade or on that level it's the name calling that you somehow seem to feel elevates your status or your argument.  

 

Frankly my grandchildren can compete in name calling if that's what you care to do or reduce these conversations to but as for me I don't see fit in responding to such insults so I don't.   You want to call your charts as historical evidence as if that is to refute my statements that no county went without rain.  My statements was made as a citizen of Georgia who listened to just those statements made on local media broadcast the days after it happened.  Do I believe that those meteorologist who made those statements might have made them based on actual reporting from others within the state?  Most likely.  I know what I heard, living there and as a resident and on more than three separate stations or sources.  I tend to accept that over your charts.  Are we to assume now that the Weather charts are beyond reproach and totally accurate in all cases?   If the charts say no rain fell then no rain fell no matter what the residents or people who lived there say.   

 

Listen again ... Was the rain the next days an answer of the Governor's day of prayer?   Possibly!  It could have been or it may not have been.  It didn't solve the drought but if I remember correctly the prayer was for rain.  You non-beleivers and atheist want so badly to find some way to disprove God but you can't.  God exist and proves it to His believers and saved each day.  To you God doesn't exist because God is void to you.  I do believe and accept this.  You know not God therefore there is no God, at least to you and the other non-beleivers.  What bothers you is that you cannot convince everyone else so as to somehow reinforce your thought there is no God and give it credence.  

 

Sorry to say that there IS a God and He does answer some prayers including ones for forgiveness.  Say there isn't all you want but that changes nothing in reality.  Time will tell.

------

You are either an idiot or a lair.  What you write is still there, GB.  Let me refresh your memory:

 

You said, "Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue, a Christian, Prayed, to God, for help from the drought (....) The next day/night there was hardly a patch of land in the whole state of Georgia (....) it definitely rained at a time and on a day that it was not forecast to do so.

------

Jesus, GB! You most certainly DID attribute this maracle to God!  I showed you total rainfall maps that clearly showed rain headed towards the entire southeast over the span of days.  I showed you data that proves that most of the state received 1/100 to 1/10th of an inch of rain - that is hardly a drop!  The extreme northern portion (NOT Atlanta) received up to 1/2 an inch.  That is significant rain, for sure, but nothing to get excited about.  God continued to punish the state all the way through spring. 

 

You still insist that the entire state received rain without exception. I show you data that proves that part of the state did not receive and you STILL insist you are correct.  And now here you are saying you didn't say one thing while it's right up there in black and white!

 

Your religion has deluded you so much that you will completely sheild yourself from any and all contradictory evidence that you are wrong. That is just plain stupid.

 

Unob, I have finally had time to go back and reread this whole thread. The conclusion I have come to is that, A) GB was THERE, and if he heard on radio and TV that no county went without rain, I believe him. B) He NEVER said that it was BECAUSE of the governer's prayer that it rained. and C) You are once again twisting people's words to try to prove some pointless point.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you really DO have reading comprehension problems, but I know better by now. Trying to wring a different meaning out of the post of any Christian on this board is your typical MO, and I am not the ONLY one who recognizes that.

 

And as far as Bill goes, I'd rather get his fleas than your TICKS.

LOLOLOL, oh for crying out loud!!! Gb says:

 

most skeptics and non-believers say definitely for they cannot dare to acknowledge or believe that God may have answered a very public and open prayer.  People certainly prayed throughout the drought as the are in Texas.  Cherry pick all you want as to try and discount what happened but the fact was that this happened and very much appears as a direct answer to the Governor's and states call to prayer. 

I will address this last part of what you said in a following post, under this topic (unlike Bill who likes to carry people away from the context of the discussion to a new one.  I believe it's best to continue in place.

Over the days that I participated continually in the forum I've always wondered why atheist and non-believers are so prevalent in a forum that seems dedicated to something they either reject or don't believe in or about a God or Deity that they say doesn't exist or that they don't care about.

Others have said they aren't here to convert anyone and often it is said that atheist or non-believers are here to call BS on the stupidity or something like that.  I have set on the side at times, without jumping in and just read the replies and post and it seems to me I had the answer all along.  You and others are here for a very good and valid reason and one which should answer your own questions about if God exist or whether or not God exist.

Each of you, in your own way, seek to do battle with God, you seek to defeat God to overwhelm God to be supreme to God and that impossibility resonates within your conscience.  That inner created soul/spirit within you, that same one that will still exist after your physical body dies, longs to know it's creator and without that right relationship with God, it's creator, is an unsatisfying thorn in your flesh.  It eats you alive that there is some need for God that you cannot squelch so you seek to do battle with that urge and need, in effect do battle with God who is convicting you with His Holy Spirit, by doing battle with God by proxy.  You cannot silence God or defeat God so you battle is carried to those who represent God, Those who call themselves Christians or believers, on here.  

You may can present a case on here where you seemingly prevail over God or where you feel you have prevailed over some other Christian who disagrees with you but what you are doing is trying to silence that inner call, from God, that lets you know that there is something else that you do not grasp and that is a right relationship with the (your) creator.  You cannot battle God so you battle those that are called by His name.  You seek to demean them or ridicule them in your attempts to do the same to God hoping that will give you the feeling of overcoming God but yet it does little to actually end that inner torment that you deal with every second, every minute, every day.

I do truly believe that many of you are here for that reason.  You wish to overcome and convince others, including convincing yourself, that you have overcome and defeated God.  You seek to blame "our Religion" or claim we are deluded by belief in a God that somehow you cannot experience or know.  The reason you don't know God is you have never met God or given yourself over to God and allowed God to introduce Himself to you and reconcile your inner spirit with His Holy Spirit.  

There may be a few that are here only to be destructive as they can and abusive as they can but I believe the real reason is what I said above.  There is an inner battle being waged with God's Spirit within and you seek to overcome God by overcoming His proclaimed servants.  You wage a battle by Proxy for you cannot overcome God and stop that inner torment and inner decision that you deal with daily.  The only way you will overcome that torment is to allow God to speak with you and humble yourself enough to listen.  Jesus Christ died for us to have that ability to actually communicate with God directly and not have to go through a priest or a Holy of Holies.  Through Christ and our acceptance of His Sacrifice on the Cross for our Sins we actually have direct access to God and can experience the magnitude of being before God.  There IS no question that remains about IF God exist for that is answered in a most demonstrative way, by God Himself.

Debate and verbally wage written battle with words as much as you want on these forums with those of us who call ourselves Christian but know that God does His own dealing with people and the real question you must ask and answer is whether God is actually the one dealing with you for that inner void and vacancy doesn't go away or get better by on it's own or by any prevailing one way or the other over a person whom says they believe in God.  

I have no way of proving any of that but I fully believe that to be the case in some of those on here and why they are here so often and in every topic.  They are here for a need and one which cannot be squelched by calling any of us demeaning names or seeking to prevail in an open debate.  

As for twisting the words around, regarding the event in Georgia, feel your maps and charts somehow vindicate you and somehow make what i said invalid but I am only reporting from being a first hand witness as someone who was there and heard the broadcast.  Can you say that same?

 

 

 

Over the days that I participated continually in the forum I've always wondered why atheist and non-believers are so prevalent in a forum that seems dedicated to something they either reject or don't believe in or about a God or Deity that they say doesn't exist or that they don't care about.

 

And you have been told a hundred times and still act like you don't know why. Why are you here? So you believe in a god, why do you have to come here and post that over and over? You've been told this is not a religious forum. It is a forum for discussion about religion and or different beliefs and practices. Discussion means discussion. It does not mean this is your or bill's own little private church site to come to and preach. You just post the same thing over and over even when you get answers. Plus you post things and deny posting them when they're there in black and white for anyone to see. Now go visit atheist sites and read the comments of christians. Then ask the christians what they're doing on an atheist site.  I told you once I am not here to convert anyone. You can't convert people to atheism. But as usual you act like no one has told you that. I honestly believe if there was a god he would have sent a lightening bolt through some of you by now.

Bestworking, whoever you are, do you have a problem with the word "appears as".    If I was certain it was a direct answer to the people's prayers I would have stated such.  I would have said that it was a definite answer to the people's prayers, but I did not say this.  

 

Do I believe it was?  I very much believe it could be but just as with other prayers or request to and of God ... God is not controlled by any person or group of people that He abides by our request or wishes.  Who are we to think that God would?  I am still amazed that God would put Himself upon a Cross and suffer physical pain ( pain in and through the body of Jesus Christ, God in Human Fleshly Body) so that we, humans, would have a perfect blood sacrifice to atone for our sins against Him.  It makes no logical sense why a God would do such a thing but then I believe there is little about God that we, humans, can conceive and understand.  That is why we must approach God in Faith.

 

So what is so funny about the post you seem to find amusing?

The funny part is how you post something and then when you're proven wrong you try to pretend you didn't mean it the way it "sounded". Pitiful.

 

 

 

very much appears as a direct answer to the Governor's and states call to prayer. 

Oh but if someone such as unob posts proof that "it very much appears" that prayer and a god had nothing to do with the rain we get pages and pages of your whining.

Jennifer says: "You just post the same thing over and over even when you get answers."

 

Wow. I've been saying that about you atheists for a couple of YEARS now. I think if it weren't for the atheists jumping in with their insults and "deludeds", some of us Christians could have some very interesting and productive discussions. Of course, you try to derail any discussion we might try to have, and then you post the same five or six questions, worded slightly differently each time. Then you ignore or ridicule the answers because you aren't really interested in answers - you're just looking for another excuse to bash us.  

Naw unob, the maps and graphs are photoshopped!!!  And if gb says he didn't post something, even if it's still there in black and white, you have to take his word he didn't post it.

Hi GB,

Uno has declared, "Your religion has deluded you so much that you will completely shield yourself from any and all contradictory evidence that you are wrong.  That is just plain stupid."

And, you correctly respond to his huffing and puffing:

Over the days that I participated continually in the forum I've always wondered why atheist and non-believers are so  prevalent in a forum that seems dedicated to something they either reject or don't believe in or about a God or Deity that they say doesn't exist or that they don't care about.

Each of you, in your own way, seek to do battle with God, you seek to defeat God to overwhelm God -- to be supreme to God and that impossibility resonates within your conscience.  That inner created soul/spirit within you,  that same one that will still exist after your physical body dies, longs to know it's creator and without that right relationship with God, it's creator, is an unsatisfying thorn in your flesh.  It eats you alive that there is some need for God that you cannot squelch.

So, you seek to do battle with that urge and need, in effect do battle with God who is convicting you with His Holy Spirit, by doing battle with God by proxy.  You cannot silence God or defeat God so you battle is carried to those who represent God, those who call themselves Christians or believers, on here.

You may present a case on here where you seemingly prevail over God or where you feel you have prevailed over some other Christian who disagrees with you but what you are doing is trying to silence that inner call, from God, that lets you know that there is something else that you do not grasp and that is a right relationship with the (your) creator.

You cannot battle God -- so you battle those that are called by His name.  You seek to demean them or ridicule them in your attempts to do the same to God hoping that will give you the feeling of overcoming God.  Yet, it does little to actually end that inner torment that you deal with every second, every minute, every day.

I do truly believe that many of you are here for that reason.  You wish to overcome and convince others, including convincing yourself, that you have overcome and defeated God.  You seek to blame "our Religion" or claim we are deluded by belief in a God that somehow you cannot experience or know.

The reason you don't know God is you have never met God or given yourself over to God and allowed God to introduce  Himself to you and reconcile your inner spirit with His Holy Spirit.

There may be a few that are here (who) only to be (as) destructive as they can and abusive as they can.  But, I believe  the real reason is what I said above.  There is an inner battle being waged with God's Spirit within and you seek to overcome God by overcoming His proclaimed servants.

You wage a battle by Proxy for you cannot overcome God and stop that inner torment and inner decision that  you deal with daily.  The only way you will overcome that torment is to allow God to speak with you and humble yourself enough to listen.

Jesus Christ died for us to have that ability to actually communicate with God directly and not have to go through a priest or a Holy of Holies.  Through Christ, and our acceptance of His Sacrifice on the Cross for our Sins, we actually have direct access to God and can experience the magnitude of being before God.  There IS no question about "IF God exist" -- for that is answered in a most demonstrative way, by God Himself.

Debate and verbally wage written battle with words as much as you want on these forums, with those of us who call ourselves Christian -- but know that God does His own dealing with people and the real question you must ask, and answer, is whether God is actually the one dealing with you.  For that inner void and vacancy doesn't go away or get better on it's own -- or by any prevailing, one way or the other, over people who say they believe in God.

I have no way of proving any of that (what I have written about atheists is true).  But, I fully believe that to be the case for some of those here -- and why they are here so often -- and in every topic.  They are here for a need.  And (it is) one which cannot be squelched by calling any of us demeaning names or seeking to prevail in an open debate.

GB, all I can add to this is:  AMEN!   AMEN!  AMEN!

Thank you for so clearly stating what is abundantly obvious to all of us.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

-----

 

Yes, it was a big story,. GB.  We atheists were laughing out butts off at the gall of the govnah calling for a rain dance WHEN RAIN WAS PREDICTED.

 

Same thing happened in Alabama when Govnah Riley called for a week of prayer here in Alabama between Junme 30 and July 7th.  Guess what?  A front just happened to be moving through during that time, too. Take a look for yourself: http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/d.../index_20070703.html 

 You fundies do know that this was exactly how much of the bible was written too, right?  In fact, it is pretty well established that many of the "prophecies" in the Old Testical  were sort of adjusted after the fact to match some of the stuff in the New Testical.  Yes, history was actually re-written by the true believers who didn't like the history that was recorded so made their own.  

More on coping with the drought

Just like Perdue — and the National Weather Service — said, it was a rainy night in Georgia on Wednesday.

The rain was triggered by a cold front coming through, and it was expected to last until the early hours of Thursday morning.

"It will tease us a little bit," said Lans Rothfusz, meteorologist in charge at the Weather Service, "but it will come nowhere close to breaking the drought. The ground is so dry, it will absorb everything that falls on it."

More than 250 faithful Georgians joined Perdue outside the Capitol to ask for divine intervention to end the historic drought.

The faithful ought to keep praying.

Thursday is expected to be cooler with morning clouds, afternoon sun and only a 20 percent chance of rain.

Friday will be sunny and cool, with the chance of rain falling to 10 percent.
ed....

Comment #24 by: James Preston | November 15, 2007, 9:22 am

 

 

I surely must have missed something, but with your post, I am now assuming that Jennifer is Bestworking?    If so thank you for illuminating that as I before chose not to respond, address, or have dialog with Jennifer account of her continual twisting and deliberate misuse of the intent of what I had to say or post.  

 

I can see that the same Bitter poison that was being spread then has not moderated or changed in any way so I shall maintain my decision not to respond and shall include the other ID she choses to use.  It serves no profitable purpose to have dialog with someone who has no desire in considerate debate but rather chooses to use deception as a tool to attempt to change and alter what one says without any acknowledgment or regret.  Thank you for that illumination.

 

Additionally Uno is correct in his direct quotes of what I posted in other replies.  Your interpretation of my intent and what I actually said is also spot on.  The fact still remains that I did not insist that the rain was definite answer to the Prayers but what I did mean was that God could have chosen that moment in time, given the highly publicized public prayer, to make it rain.  That if that was God's choice in answering the prayer that it was in a demonstrative way because it did rain in all Georgia Counties over the following day(s) so no County went without rainfall of some measure.

 

The second direct quote UNO used was also correct and factual.  Sonny Perdue did pray and have his specified day of prayer and it did rain the following days and on a day, in certain places, that it was not forecast to rain.   True there were areas that it was forecasted to rain and it did rain but the following was also true:

 

• The day of prayer was set up and organized before the forecast included rain so the prayer was not scheduled to coincide with a specific forecast.
• There were areas that received Rain where it was not forecasted to rain
• There were days where rain was forecast yet did not see rain on the days it was forecasted to rain
• There were numerous local broadcast, in Macon and Atlanta, and weather reports the following days where it was stated that all Georgia counties saw a measure of rain and that no county went totally without.
• It appears that UNO will find anyway to spin his mis-wording of what I actually said in order to try and keep from admitting that he did so incorrectly.
• The post speak for themselves.  Although anyone can intrepret them to say what they want I did not insist that this was a direct answer to the prayers but instead that it could have been and that if God did choose to answer those prayers He did so in a convincing or demonstrative way by having no Georgia county go completely dry.

The fact remains that whenever some non-beliver or atheist takes what we say out of context or twist it around they will never own up to it or make correction or retractions.  There is much hypocrisy in many things they say or post.  They say Christians judge them or people yet they do essentially the very same thing only when they do it they make it personal in a demeaning way.

 

They jump on me saying I am being repetitious concerning asking the question of why atheist or non-believrs are so drawn to this forum and say they answered it before yet either I wasn't here when they answered it before, to see, or there was no real answer provided.  Could just be that it wasn't the question that was ask which caused the problem, and terse responses, but the answers that would have been revealed.  Either way it sure ruffled some feathers (as the saying goes).  

 

They, though, harp on essentially the very same things over and over yet expect a pass. They say or do essentially the very same things they are always accusing us of doing but either selectively cannot see it or recognize it themselves.

 

Thank you O No for correctly pointing out what was obvious by reading what was posted and I also express appreciation to my Christian Brother in Christ, Bill, for his agreement in my previous post.

Be careful GB. Be careful Bill. When I posted the same sentiments, I was called "HATEFUL".

For God's sake, please don't group all atheists together like that. 

Uno,   Where did I insist and declare dogmatically that God did this in response to the Prayer?  You pasted copies of what I wrote, when you replied to O NO were not me saying that this was definitely God doing it.  I have always been consistant in maintaing that God could have done it.  That God does answer prayers.

 

Also I have been consistant in saying God, today, in this time does not act as He did in times before with mankind or humankind.  Today we are under a period and Covenant (Agreement) of Grace whereby by Faith man is justified by belief in Jesus Christ, God's Son and only appointed way by which Mankind's sins can be forgiven.  In times before Christ God could and did bring direct Judgment and Wrath upon nations and peoples for various reasons but this is not that time period so people who are of the opinion that Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Droughts, Floods whatever malady hits is God's wrath just do not comprehend or understand Scripture as to how God is dealing with humankind today, after Jesus Christ.  

 

Another thing that has changed is humankind's relationship with God the Father.  Before Jews and surely gentiles could not even approach God to look upon His Face or countenance without sure and immediate death.  Only the High Priest could enter into the Temple's Holy of Holies once a year on a specified day under very strict directions and preparations to approach God for forgiveness.  Jesus Christ did away with that system and through Jesus Christ we have access direct to God via God's Holy Spirit which literally resides along with our inner spirit of those whom know God and are His.  We, Christians, are Blood Brothers and Blood Sisters not by physical human blood that runs through our physical bodies but by the Holy Spirit account of the Blood that was shed on the Cross by Christ crucified account of our, everyone's, sins.  It is the only way by which we can please God and be acceptable to God.

 

The ripping of that temple curtain that separated the people from God's Holy of Holies was symbolic of the new Covenant/Agreement between man and God and symbolic of man's direct access unto God to present his/her needs.

Matthew 27:50-54 (NIV)
{50} And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
{51} At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split.
{52} The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
{53} They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
{54} When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"

Oh, by the way Unob, when did you have the transplant, and are they both working, or is one of them just for show?

 

Unob says (in a rather juvenile way, if you ask me):

 "In fact, it is pretty well established that many of the "prophecies" in the Old Testical  were sort of adjusted after the fact to match some of the stuff in the New Testical."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

uno,,,when did you become such an expert concerning the will of God????

 

.

OMG! I really can't believe that GK is doing it again. Yet I guess I should not be surprised. It is his MO. I have been in this same situation with him in a discussion a few months ago. He makes statements and then when it gets heated and its pointed out how rediculous he is being he starts back tracking and saying that he didn't mean the words he said. He then claims that we have twisted it to mean something other than what he meant. Some how we are all supposed to see inside his mind and figure out what he meant regardless of the words he post.

 

GK you said you believed it was God answering the prayers. Why are you ashamed of that stance now? Is it because you are starting to realize how insane that truly is?

 

O No, do you believe that God made it rain in GA due to the day of prayer? Not a hard question, but you seem to not want to answer it.

 

Yes dummie, God made it rain in Georgia. Remember our classical laws of nature/ physics?

God invented them. I guess you havent heard dark reamer<<snicker>>

OMG! I really can't believe that GK is doing it again. Yet I guess I should not be surprised. It is his MO. I have been in this same situation with him in a discussion a few months ago. He makes statements and then when it gets heated and its pointed out how rediculous he is being he starts back tracking and saying that he didn't mean the words he said. He then claims that we have twisted it to mean something other than what he meant. Some how we are all supposed to see inside his mind and figure out what he meant regardless of the words he post.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

He's bill made over. Deny, avoid, twist, ignore. Doing the fundie two step.

Working girl, GBRK is an intellectual and only slums over here on occasion just to see what the primates are up to. He is on a much higher level of thinking than your companions here on the forum. He is limited in the amount of time he can give audience to you pipple.

He has the authority to, with only 90 days notice to the FCC, launch an orbiting radio station in space around the Earth.

After that reply you might reconsider changing your ID to "SilverTonguedDevil" however inappropriate that might be.  I also doubt that the radio space station will resonate with any of the natives either so I'll just stay content with F2 (depending on the sun), F1, D & E space surfing along with a glide on the ground wave every now and again.  Then again I guess I shouldn't concern myself at all with any of those terms or endeavors as I'm just some base dumb ole Christian Fundy who is perceived by many to do good to open the door and find the light switch.  Besides if I start talking UHF there will be one or two or more that will accuse me of invoking or infringing on Wierd Al Yankovic and that I'm going to start some television station as in his 1989 flick.

 

Continue on young(er) Skywalker and may the Force continue to be strong in you.  

PRAYER AND ACTION! it happens. BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (CNA/EWTN News) — The Eternal Word Television Network, in cooperation with Bishop Robert Baker of Birmingham, is reaching out to help victims of the devastating tornadoes that hit Alabama. Michael Warsaw, the network’s president and CEO, and other staff members will join Bishop Baker, along with the Knights of Columbus and local churches, to serve breakfast to tornado victims in Pratt City’s Scott School May 23. After the breakfast, they will distribute $70,000 worth of new clothes. “Many of us in the EWTN family living in Alabama watched our friends and neighbors lose everything they had in the destructive tornadoes that hit the southeastern United States,” Warsaw said in a statement on behalf of the network. EWTN employees have received up to three days of paid leave to volunteer at numerous disaster sites, left by an outbreak of more than 300 tornadoes and accompanying floods from April 25-28. The network’s home state of Alabama suffered the worst damage from the storms, which killed more than 300 people in seven states. “While EWTN was spared from damage, the region was devastated,” said Warsaw. “We grieve the loss of life and suffering that the storms caused.” Managers from the TV network have also helped coordinate relief efforts with the Diocese of Birmingham. Bishop Baker, who began visiting victims immediately after the tornadoes ended, has taken up a special collection for tornado relief and asked that all Catholic parishes function as “centers of assistance.” Members of four Alabama Catholic parishes — St. Peter’s in Hoover, St. Thomas in Montevallo and St. Mark’s and Our Lady of the Valley in Birmingham — will assist the EWTN staff and the Knights of Columbus in serving breakfast and distributing clothing to the victims May 23. Warsaw said that the entire staff of EWTN was grateful for network supporters’ “continued prayers and assistance to the diocesan relief efforts.” He thanked viewers and contributors for helping the network “answer this call to serve those in need at this difficult time.”

 

 

 

How old are you two, to think HAM radio is still cool and cutting edge? Its not 1980 anymore...

 

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAA! Ohhhhh.....that made me laugh.

Although it has nothing to do with the topic at hand it does deserve a reply.  

 

Therefore who is trying to claim it's cool or cutting edge?  What does age have to do with it also for I see articles about kids in middle school all the time that are joining the ranks of Radio Amateurs or HAM Radio as it's called by some.  It's participants though have been instrumental in many discoveries and technological advancements we all enjoy today that many consider cool.  Also Amateurs have also been instrumental throughout history in saving many lives and providing contact, even in the high technological age we are in, when all else fails, some consider that cool as well.  Volunteers who invest and spend their own money, many of which, to help assist others in times of dire need and distress and seek not recognition or reimbursement for doing so.  Radio Amateurs have also been "networking" long before that term was in vogue.  

 

It is a hobby or a status that is not so much considered cool but is considered by some as prestigious enough that it is recognized by each State Government with special license plates for recognition and designation in Emergency situations and additionally the Federal Government so much that they allot certain (very valuable) frequency spectrums for it's use and for experimentation.  

 

I am old enough to appreciate those that came before and paved the way for many electronic inventions and advancements which in some cases helped our Country gain an advantage in the wars that it has fought.  

 

I'm wondering what it says about someone who always consistently is looking for some kind of conflict, controversy or take an antagonistic approach to or in just about everything they post?  Sounds like someone that really needs to find something to do or lives miserable and desires to make as many others feel the same way in order that they won't be so solitary in their own condition.  

 

I'm glad we could amuse and it takes such little to amuse you.

Well I'm just glad that the nutjob found a friend. Birds of a feather so to speak. And as B says

impress us darknagle' what do you do? Please don't tell me you are a student that wears a boggin pulled down over your ears in the Summer.

DA, I'm going to be charitable toward you here, and assume you were unaware of all the good ham radio operators do. THEY SAVE LIVES. Instead of ridiculing GB, you should be THANKING him.

 

During any type of natural disaster, like tornadoes, hurricanes, wildfires, earthquakes, or floods, very often ALL communications are out EXCEPT ham radios. And ham radio operators are trained and ready to do whatever is necessary to help.

 

Here are just a few out of the hundreds of articles about what they have done, from Katrina to the April tornadoes in Alabama:

http://www.alabamawx.com/?p=47462

http://www.arrl.org/news/amate...new-mexico-wildfires

http://radio.about.com/od/amat...wave/a/aa090405a.htm

http://www.arrl.org/news/amate...ons-support-in-haiti

Ham radio operators do great things. That's beside the point. What did GB or rramm do with their ham radios during Katrina or the tornadoes to help make other people's lives better? 

What's the issue about us specifically anyway?   Is there some obsession here?   The DA referenced Ham Radio,  I, and others just answered that Hams do much good, we, and I never claimed to request any credit ourselves and we aren't trying to make it about ourselves nor is O NO so why do you wish to inject it?   What all did you do to assist the folks in Phil Campbell and Huntsville?   What's the purpose of your question anyway as none of this is germane to the topic at hand so you just appear to thrive on wanting to stir up some dissension so what does that say about you? 

 

Unlike you, O NO comprehended what DA was doing and responded to him, okuok and I never were an issue in it till you tried to bring us into it, and for what reason?  

 

I didn't adequately answer the post/Question though.  It was directed to O NO but why the emphasis was upon okuok and myself is curious since I only responded to DA'a post about Ham Radio and HAM's in general and not specifically about myself or anyone locally.   I will answer the question as it should be answered.

Although you attempted to restrict the question specifically to okuok and myself any true HAM will answer in the same way.  We do nothing in and of ourselves but rather as a collective cohesive group, working together.  Alone you fail and when there is such a need as on April 27th there is no place for selfishness or hot dogging.  If you were a part of the operations and ongoing help there you saw many of us in the background, where we should be.

So what did the local HAMs do.    As a group we provided inter-department and served agency to served agency Communications for distribution and coordination of services and assets when it was needed to communicate between agencies that did not have a common frequency to communicate on.  They provided a way that family and loved ones to find out the health & welfare status of their friends, family, etc that were in the devastated area when services were so overloaded that there existed no cell phones or other phone service that would enable people to get word out that they were alright.  Communicated with and checked on availability of resources at various aid stations and hospitals and treatment centers as to the availability of space and services and status of supplies as well as County to County transfer of information between EMA Offices and Coordination centers.  Assisted in continual and ongoing reporting of damage assessment and search and retrieval for injured and then location of deceased along with firemen, FEMA, Red Cross, Church organizations and other agencies that were being directed by the local Emergency Coordinator and EMA Director.  Continued to pass health and welfare traffic on Statewide and nationwide national traffic systems on regular scheduled nets.  Transported and coordinated as well as providing generators and setting up temporary stations.   There is still much that I have missed and haven't reported but since you ask it deserved an answer about some of the activities that our local Hams provided the people in the counties south of us.   Not to mention that some of these activities were carried out from stations that were set up on the fly and remotely with antennas constructed by wire from various amateur operators and in all cases with equipment that was wholly purchased at the sole expense of each individual Amateur with the hope that one day they could actually volunteer to provide their equipment and resources, free of charge, to assist and help others in their time of need.  Each Amateur studied, learned, and developed a working knowledge of Electronics, Radio Operation, Rules and Regulations, Propagation and Antenna theory and took a battery of FCC Test in order to have the privilege to be able to provide a service that may not have been available otherwise.

 

The above not only happened here but Cullman, Huntsville, Birmingham, and Tuscaloosa as well as other areas of the state and touching areas and people from all over the country that were not able to contact their friends and loved ones here in Alabama.   

 

Okuok and myself we do nothing in and of ourselves but work with everyone else and as a whole help accomplish everything above and more.  As for what you did specifically that's admirable but if you want recognition for your specific accomplishments then go ahead and list them for all to see but I'm happy being a part of a group that functions as one together accomplish far more than any one of us individually.    

 

I fully believe that is what O No was responding with and saying to DA.  She, like I, read his post for what it was and responded as such.  She did not deserve being picked on for it either for doing so.  While I still didn't adequately address what various amateurs contributed and did I hope I was able to shed a little light on some of what services my fellow Amateurs helped provide.  Our rewards are not in individual accomplishments or recognition but rather the faces of those who lost everything but were so worried about their relatives thinking they might be dead and finding out they weren't.  Hearing the relief in the voices of people on the other end of the phone line when you deliver a message that their loved one, mother, father, sister, brother, etc was not hurt.  Our reward is feeling that somehow we have justified the confidence and belief that the Government has in our hobby to permit us to maintain bands of very expensive frequencies in order to do just what was done.  

I'm proud to be a member of such a service and group of wonderful volunteers and with I could highlight several of them individually.  No HAM Radio isn't COOL, as DA alluded to, but for many of those effected by the storms and troubles to strike Alabama in April HAM Radio operators did some Cool things.

Although it has nothing to do with the Subject of this topic the least I can do is shed some light on some very talented and wonderful people (men, women, and some very talented young people) and their unselfish efforts.  

If you're speaking of what you did with that group, then I thank you for it. Can you speak for what okuok did either individually or as a part of that group? All I heard him do was say what he saw which isn't the same as helping others. 

i doubt okuok was up here, we were allowed to shoot looters and he's still around.

Actually w/woman I was there for several days and it seems the first ham on the air in Hackleburg.

But I wasn’t just pushing buttons on a rig. What did you do? I’m almost afraid to ask knowing the business you are in.

What business am I in?

All Hams, as far as the ones I know, were involved in various parts from weeks before the Tornado, working the straight line winds and storms that preceded April 27 and the area 146.96 Moulton Repeater which is the main weather repeater for this North Alabama and is linked to several others around the state for coordination.  Various Amateurs were off and on during the April 27th event many working stations from their homes while others were in various and separate County Emergency Operation Centers, Healthcare facilities and stationed at various set up help and assistance centers.  Their work continued for weeks after.  The point is that many people that I never knew was active were there and offered help those days and weeks.  Many spent part time helping out their neighbors and then went home to work troubles at their own houses.   The point I was trying to make was in addressing DA's comment that various Ham Radio Operators don't spend the money on the equipment and study and take the test because they consider it Cool but they do so because they want to help and found a way that they can.  As a part of that community I wanted to defend the contribution of the many that i personally know and the others that I don't.  I don't know how many were working at any one time but I know we had in excess of 25 operators across the state, in their homes on their Radios and phones, that were working,  spending time trying to find relatives to let them know their loved ones were safe and some messages were actually passed using morse code but most were voice.  

 

In case of curiosity no messages are ever delivered, by Ham's, of a nature where a person is confirmed or specified as deceased for that is left for proper officials to do so.  If you ever hear from a HAM it's to report they are safe.  When possible Cell phones and other phones are used but when everything is out our volunteers use their personal equipment to get as many messages out as possible and to assist in various separate organizations communicating with each other.  Lately we don't do that as much as most Emergency Operation Centers have that function built into their design.  September 11, 2001 helped establish those ties and the money to accomplish that but there is still work for volunteers to assist with as each Local Emergency Manager deems necessary.  

 

Although okuok is concerned, I do know him personally, off the computer and he does contribute very much and often when he can.  People shouldn't forum opinions about people on here based on their Religious or Political opinions or beliefs and then allow that to bias your impression about that person in their private lives.  That's just unfair to them.  Not saying you did that either, but some do.

GB, I'm not one bit surprised you'd know him "personally". Shouldn't form opinions based on his posts here? Are you kidding?

And by the way w/woman the Amateur Radio Service is the ONLY communications service that has the capabilities to set up worldwide communications in case of any global or national disaster immediately not within an hour but immediately in the case of any communications blackout solar or otherwise.

Hams can prove communications unassisted for extended periods of time internationally regardless of language or political barriers. That is the reason Amateur Radio owns more frequencies that any other service and is unrestricted in experimental regions of the spectrum and the only group other than the military that is licensed to experiment with spread spectrum technology.

I'm sorry ok, where did I mention anything about a ham radio operator? Take your meds, you're confused about who you're posting your lies to.

=====================================

Good grief, not only are you an atheist unoi you’re a CB’r. hahaha no wonder I don’t like you. LOL.

What’s you “handle”? and you lied about using a CB in your business. I know what business you are in and you don’t use a CB Radio. You liiiiiiiiiiiied.

DA, I'm going to be charitable toward you here, and assume you were unaware of all the good ham radio operators do. THEY SAVE LIVES. Instead of ridiculing GB, you should be THANKING him.

 

During any type of natural disaster, like tornadoes, hurricanes, wildfires, earthquakes, or floods, very often ALL communications are out EXCEPT ham radios. And ham radio operators are trained and ready to do whatever is necessary to help.

 

Here are just a few out of the hundreds of articles about what they have done, from Katrina to the April tornadoes in Alabama:

http://www.alabamawx.com/?p=47462

http://www.arrl.org/news/amate...new-mexico-wildfires

http://radio.about.com/od/amat...wave/a/aa090405a.htm

http://www.arrl.org/news/amate...ons-support-in-haiti

BS, and I don't mean black sheep.

Jesus H. Christ people. The only reason I laughed at Ok and GK is because they seem to think it makes them some sort of intellectuals because they can work a HAM radio. I have a 15 year old nephew that has one set up in his bedroom, and has since he was 10. Also with today's technology it is only really useful in situations like natural disasters ie, tornadoes.

 

They would not be of any use at all if say... we had a EMP attack. Which is a very real threat.

 

No one said that they were not useful at anytime, I just don't think a couple of old HAM radio guys should go around thinking they are some how intellectual giants based solely on their ability to turn some knobs and speak clearly. LOL

 

QED

ever heard of valve radios dark nagel?

dark, I'm beginning to suspect you as one of unoi's employees. possibly the kid that drove the Mustang. If not, whatever happend to that kid unoi?

 

At a certain age it becomes "retro" and then it's cool again. It's old school in a way that old schoolers can't be because they went to the old school. That's what the kids say anyway.

Just plainly wrong.  I never insinuated or said such.  Not that there are not highly intellectual people in the hobby.   Many astronauts, Engineers and Researchers or other highly technical people also study and take the test for the license and privilege.  Kings and various politicians as well as some Actors and some Singers and performers enjoy the hobby and yes many middle schoolers and young people as well as Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts so it doesn't take brain surgeons or Rocket Scientist although many of them are Hams also.  Essentially what I was doing, with Okuok was clowning around, with the post I made, not thinking that someone would be on here trying to turn it into something totally different.  

 

As for Uno's comments you must really have a burning grudge for some reason or something biting at you but no one is trying to pull your chain to deserve the retorts that you came back with.  I used to be a CB'er as well ( KBD5746 was my FCC CB License ).  Hams are quick to distinguish themselves from CB not because they are any more special but because they each endured long and extensive study and practice to get their privilege to operate and use the vast frequencies we have.  I personally had to learn, over time, and pass an FCC Test of 20 Words per minute Morse Code and advanced Electronics theory as well as Rules and Regs in order to qualify for my license so it is something we appreciate, not laud over people's heads.  Anyone can do it and I would encourage anyone to go for it especially since the FCC Dropped the requirement for Morse Code.

 

Like the Boy Scout motto to "Be Prepared" (not a boy scout so can't say that's 100% right) Hams prepare for all kinds of contingencies as well as EMP.  I myself have a radio contained within a shielded lined metal box and have battery ability and wire aside for making antennas if such was to happen I would have ability to still respond.  Others do the same.   

 

DA,  You actually started all this so just realize it was your remark about what age we were and that cool remark as if we were trying to say we were cool by having that ability.  Again my post to Okuok was in jest such as one might kid saying space cadet .. surfing the web or surfing the troposphere.   O No also responded to address that Amateur Radio serves a purpose and does some good from Volunteers.    That's all it's about.   The only one's that I can recall injecting intelligence or intellect and genius or the like in it was either you or Unob or one of the others.  I'm certainly not the brightest bulb on the tree but like all other Ham's and Amateur Operators I know and have met reject the term idiot as well.  What is so difficult at times to grasp, I suppose, with some of you is that someone that has a measure of some intelligence or thinking ability actually believes in God and claims allegiance and dedication to God and that must blow your minds that the adjectives and demeaning remarks that so many Atheist like to attribute to Christians just doesn't always fit or are justified outside of maybe your own minds.

 

It is not any special ability that we laud but respecting the personal investment that all of us have put in to achieve so that we would not only be in the place to provide specialized assistance when requested but the knowledge and ability to allow us to do so in the worst situations where all normal channels and avenues break down.  We are proud of what we have each accomplished and therefore none of us want to allow them to be diminished by someone who wants to treat it as something trivial.  If you posted what you did because you somehow thought someone was saying they were more special than you in some certain way then I'm sorry but as for myself you are mistaken if that is what you thought for that was not the intent nor purpose.

One more thing.  As a HAM who knows our hobby is losing more and more people and participants as older people and operators die off without more coming into the ranks wishes that each one on the forum would investigate what it takes to obtain a license as it isn't that difficult and anyone that wanted and half way put their mind to it could do so.  If you enjoy debating on here the same thing happens, well not the same thing as most Operators are very respective to each other even in disagreements.   In our debates we do so across the city/state/country/world using our voice, packet data, morse code and the like and many discussion get heated but never have I heard disrespectful.  There are many atheist, and Christians, Democrats and Republicans and College Football talk on the radio that discuss a variety thing things and have fun in debates and discussions.  No one calls the other idiots although we disagree because we all respect each other and know we all paid the same dues to get our privileges.  

 

As a HAM who wants to keep the reservoir of experienced and educated Radio Operators I wish everyone on here would and could get their license.  It is a wonderful and fulfilling hobby and I've met, or talked to, some very fascinating people.  During the Cold War you would especially look for operators behind the "Iron Curtain" as you knew then you had a real good solid "Party Member" for they didn't allow just anyone to have a radio like that.   You never knew who would answer your general call for someone to Chat, called CQ in Ham speak.  If you wonder who else are Ham's here are some URLS with famous Hams either by what they do or did in their life.  There is some duplication from one site to the next.  

 

• http://www.radcomms.net/Hall_of_Fame.html
• http://users.tellurian.com/gjurrens/famous_hams.html
• http://ku4ay.net/famous.html
• http://www.dx-qsl.com/famous-ham-radio-operators.html
• http://www.qsl.net/w5www/famous.html
• http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/?p=272   ( hey not cool but sexxy)

Okay I've worn this thread/topic out so I'll attempt to crawl back under my mushroom, or rock as some of you might like to think of it as.

Do you still have to learn Morse Code?

No.  

 

The FCC Reduced the speed of the Morse Code test to 5 words per minute but then removed the requirement all together.  Current test requirements are mentioned in the link below:

http://www.radioing.com/hamstart/license.html

 

http://www.470arg.com/cms/node/8

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...in_the_United_States

 

 

There are also several sites on the web where the questions are provided along with the multiple choice answers from the question pool so that people can see what the questions are.  The actual FCC Test is taken from these question pools.  There are also various sites that offer study helps to help prepare for the test.  Here is one site that contains the question pools:

 

http://www.arrl.org/question-pools

actual Technician Question pool is at this link: http://www.ncvec.org/downloads...ed%20Element%202.Pdf

 

actual General Class License test pool questions are at:

http://www.ncvec.org/downloads...ement%203%20Pool.pdf

 

Extra class License Question pool is at the following:  

http://www.ncvec.org/downloads...l%202008%20Extra.pdf

There may be a separate link to check for diagrams associated with the above questions.

My apologies.  I had no idea Ham operators were such incredible, selfless heroes.  Thanks for enlightening me, Ono. 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Your days to be enlightened have passed Opie.

 

.

GK says:

"The only one's that I can recall injecting intelligence or intellect and genius or the like in it was either you or Unob or one of the others."

 

So GK, you and okuok didn't say you were more intelligent than others here because you can operate a HAM radio? Liar..  You didn't think there would be more than 1 or 2 people "smart" enough to understand what you were talking about. Get over yourself. You can't even grasp Evolution!  So far even that well evidenced fact escapes you and shows the limited amount of brain power you actually have.

 

The Wierd Al, and Star Wars references still just cracks me up....yeah, you two are mental and social giants. LOL

 

 

O No,, this is what I responded to. I am not backpeddling. You came back with a post on how heroic and useful HAM operators are, trying to change the discussion to something it was not.

 

I see you still won't answer the question I ask. You have been taking lessons from ole Bill haven't you?

Lets see if I can address this specifically.   I was responding to okuok's post claiming he was being very over flattering in his remarks toward me referring to him as silver tongued saying he should consider changing his ID.  I suppose he was choosing to defend me to another person on here that takes opportunity in demeaning me and he was disagreeing and taking my defense for me (I suppose).  I choose personally not to respond to such childish remarks and name calling or step into the same trashy ditch.  I consider myself defined by my post and not by what another forum member might say about me.  Often I consider it a badge of honor when addressed so for usually that means that the person doing so has expended all ability to rationally confront me in an argument or topic and just resorts to name calling which always (in my opinion) reduces the status of the accuser.

 

My statement about the space station not resonating was saying simply that only a few people that are familiar with the subject would actually know what he meant by the term, being specific as it was.  It's not a comment on a person's intelligence but just it's not common knowledge unless someone is familiar with Radio terminology.  The remainder was just bantering between he (okuok) and I.  I worded it using the terms I did because okuok is a Ham and since it was to him specifically I used language and terms I knew he would be very familiar with for banter.  I'm sorry you took some personal objection to it feeling we were somehow commenting on you.  I have no reason why you would be so sensitive to it such that you had a chip on your shoulder, so to say, but each person has their own sensitivities.  Still he, nor I, in any way made any reference to intelligence, you somehow fabricated this out of your own mind.  

 

I am not a liar, as you say, for I did not say, infer, or intend to indicate that I was more intelligent.  You apparently have no problem misjudging another person though.   Maybe you find some satisfaction in it but to you and all others I did not and still say do not make such a statement.  Any person with a working knowledge of google or any search engine could easily put in any of the terms that was in the post, as for any post, and get a sense or idea of what was being discussed so any thought that anyone could demonstrate some measure of intelligence or IQ by what they type, subject wise, is deceiving themselves.  

 

If we had some deliberate intent to be illusive of keep something from someone or the like we may have attempted to use a coded form to do so but we didn't expect someone to be so hyper sensitive, as you have been, in making something out of nothing then in some vain attempt to regain some kind of composure strike out declaring me to be a liar about it and jumping on O No again.   I not only told you before that was not my intent but just in case it was mistakenly taken that way I apologized for it just in case it was taken as such.  YOU are the only one that cannot let it drop and have some personal problem with it that you have to bring all this back up calling people liars or jumping on O NO for taking your response for what it actually was.  May I remind you that YOU started all this with you Hyper sensitivity and then jumping in with your remarks about age, Ham Radio not being cool anymore as if we were saying it was and the like.

 

I made my post to okuok thinking that anyone should have been able to understand that it was directed to and at okuok but didn't think about someone with a chip on their shoulder somehow thinking it was directed to them (It wasn't).  So let me clearly say and state, for the record and your understanding.  My post was solely directed at and to okuok.  Any reference that you (or anyone else) somehow took personally as to cast some disparage your own understanding or intellect was not intentional.  

 

Your intent, or reason for your reply post however was clearly understood to be as you meant it and therefore was responded to in kind, by me and by O NO.  Since you continually seem obsessed to bring up or inject mental aspects or abilities or mental standing  into the equation there must be some insecurity, on your part, that somehow makes you so sensitive to something that was not implied or inferred but you will have to deal with those issues at their source.  I cannot speak for okuok but for myself I claim no mental superiority over anyone else, to worry about doing so would demonstrate some form of insecurity.  

 

O NO replied to the perception that you were being demeaning to Ham Radio, which it seemed you were and which I also sensed from your reply, and she, like I, simply pointed out that the participants in that hobby or most of them, are volunteers who volunteer their own personal time, equipment, and talents to help others and that it should be appreciated and not demeaned in the way you attempted to do it for they all paid dues for their right to hold that honor.  Simply you were caught and possibly shamed and just are trying to compensate by again misdirecting the discussion back to saying my post to okuok was something it wasn't somehow justifying your response about Ham Radio.   Again anyone could have picked that up by googling the terms if they didn't know what they were so there was no attempt to hide anything.  If someone wanted to be evasive or secretive then they would use Private Messages or dialogs.  You are the only one injecting intelligence or mental abilities into the discussion acting as if okuok or myself somehow were making remarks or boasting about such.

 

Your response to this only reveals some sensitivity that you somehow have regarding the issue for you seem determined to bring it up again and again somehow justify what you typed.

DA, I've answered that question in so many different forms over the past couple of years that I'm tired of it. As I told Unob, you guys should number them so you don't have to type so much.

 

My answer to that question is the same as it was to the question about survivors of the tornadoes being saved because they prayed. It's the same as my answer to the question about God CAUSING natural disasters. It's the same as my answer to the question about God saving some from injury in an auto accident but not others.

 

I have said many many times that I believe God set up the natural laws as part of His creation. Weather patterns are part of the natural processes of the Earth. They follow the laws of nature, the laws of science that GID CREATED. I believe that there are times when God intervienes in these natural events, USING the laws of science that He set up. When He does this, I believe it is because it is part of a much grander plan than mere humans can figure out. Mine is the mind of a human, not the mind of God. But I trust Him, so whether it is His will to answer a specific prayer in one way or another, I accept it as being what is best in the grand shceme of things.

 

So in short, maybe in this case He DID cause it to rain, or maybe it would have happened anyway due to weather patterns. But I DO believe that there have been times when something like this surely DID  happened.

 

If He could turn the water into wine, He could certainly make it rain.

GBRK, you are a liar. Go back and read the words I put in bold in those messages and then tell me again that nothing was said about intelligence. Why can't you just be truthful about this? I can drop the whole matter completely if you would just be truthful and stop making up lies. You seem to do this a lot. You write 10 paragraphs saying the same thing over and over hoping that if you repeat the lie enough then others will just start to believe it.

 

You are right about one thing. You are defined by your post here. I have learned from your writings that you will lie when you could tell the truth and that you will change the meaning of what you say if you get backed into a corner.

O No, thank you for that answer. You might think that we should remember what you have said in the past but there are as many answers to questions about Christianity and it practices as there are Christians. I sometimes have a hard time remembering which Christian believes what. There are some that do not believe that God intervenes in their lives and some that do.

 

I will try and remember that you are on the side of an intervening God next time. Promise.

---

---

Frankly it's your problem if you are so hyper sensitive that you have some insecurity to take what I typed to refer to intelligence or more specifically your own capacity.  It simply stated that the terminology is not in everyone's vocabulary (not their ability to understand) as it's a specialized field and a very specialized part of Ham Radio.  Many Hams are not even familiar with Space Stations much less anyone that is not a Ham.  If I had wanted to make it about your or someone elses intelligence I would have written something like this   I would have said to okuok, these mental weaklings couldn't understand what a space stations is but I didn't and wouldn't.  You must though have some comprehension difficulty for, being the one who typed itI should know what I meant, I have said over and over to you that I did not have that intent or meaning when I typed it that way and was sorry you took it that way.   Just what is so hard to comprehend about that statement???

 

Your continual insistence on my lying is your own BIAS and prejudice showing through.  If there is any examples of people who demean other's intellect, intelligence or mental capacity you should look no further than your own type who make it a habit to do that to us Christians ALL THE TIME account of our Belief in God.  Another fine example of hypocrisy and accusing others of doing the very things atheist and unbelievers say about Christian believers.

O,

This aspect of a believer's understanding has always seemed very problematic. If humans can't possibly figure out the mind and intentions of Gid how can a human know that what they are interpreting and doing is what God intends? Especially considering the existence of millions of diverging personal opinions and interpretations about what God "actually", "really" and "truly" "wants" for us and by us, even among Jesus' very own followers.

 

 

 

Great...here's another one...

Psychopaths  atheists are notorious for their hair-trigger tempers. They are highly reactive to perceived insults and slights, and throw tantrums over trivialities. Their tantrums are often short-lived, and they can revert to a perfectly calm state moments later. Although their aggression is poorly inhibited, it is generally not uncontrolled. Their aggression lacks the intense emotional turmoil normal people feel when they lose their temper, and thus they do not actually go "mad with rage".

I realize that to be the normal answer but it never accounts for why the Holy Ghost leads millions of actual Christians in diverging and often conflicting directions about their one and only God. Can you reconcile this?

That's easy, A. Just as in a large orchestra, we each have our part to play. The oboes don't often play the same notes as the violins, and the clarinets play different notes from the french horn, but when it is all put together, there is harmony.

 

Now, if you listen to some of the more modern classical, you might find that the different instruments are playing not only different notes, but in different TIME SIGNATURES! That will often bring a sound of seeming chaos. Listen to some Stravinsky or Shostakovich and you'll hear what I mean. But the overall affect of even these pieces is what the composer INTENDED.

 

In the same way, while the Holy Spirit might lead us to think say or do things that seem on the surface to conflict with each other and make Christianity seem chaotic, the "composer" (God), knows what He's doing.

 

As a Christian who trusts her Lord completely, I am proud and eager to play whatever part He gives me.

Well golly gee whiz doo doo,,,,I thought that was Green Tea.

Would one toke hurt, if not over the line?  Jesus only knows.

 

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Well invictus you just wait til the reverand bill sees that avatar. You'll be sorry then.

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I'll just tell him it's catholic thyme. (he's stupid)

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You were obviously never in your high school band or any other band. Jesus is probably very disappointed in your lack of understanding of the tones he placed on this Earth.

GO, you're obviously another Opie, and I usually don't respond to trolls, but I have played with and written for a chamber group, and I have been in jazz bands most of my life too. I teach music for a living. Now, would YOU like to learn something about music? 

Yes. If you had to pick, do you fall in the Strat camp, or are you more of a Tele person? And why?

And O No!, check with a french horn player about who can cover his or her solo note for note with simple sight reading. Or ask your favorite conductor. 

As I read your response I realized that we've probably done this Q&A before  My issue remains that if the above were true, then your god's master plan includes his followers playing the musical part of literally murdering each other by the millions for the past couple of millennia as guided by the Holy Spirit. It seems an odd dichotomy between an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving creator and his play things.