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DETROIT (AP) — The top legislative body of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted by large margins Thursday to recognize same-sex marriage as Christian in the church constitution, adding language that marriage can be the union of "two people," not just "a man and a woman.

The amendment approved by the Presbyterian General Assembly requires approval from a majority of the 172 regional presbyteries, which will vote on the change over the next year. But in a separate policy change that takes effect at the end of this week's meeting, delegates voted to allow ministers to preside at gay weddings in states where the unions are legal and local congregational leaders approve. Nineteen states and the District of Columbia recognize same-sex marriage.

The votes, during a national meeting in Detroit, were a sweeping victory for Presbyterian gay-rights advocates. The denomination in 2011 eliminated barriers to ordaining clergy with same-sex partners, but ministers were still barred from celebrating gay marriages and risked church penalties for doing so. Alex McNeill, executive director of More Light Presbyterians, a gay advocacy group, said the decisions Thursday were "an answer to many prayers."

The Rev. Krystin Granberg of the New York Presbytery, where the state recognizes gay marriage, said she receives requests "all the time" from friends and parishioners to preside at their weddings.

"They want to be married in the church they love and they want me to do it," Granberg said during the debate. "I want pastoral relief."

But Bill Norton, of the Presbytery de Cristo, which covers parts of Arizona and New Mexico, urged the assembly to delay any changes. "We are laying hands on something that is holy, that God has given us, so we need to be sure any changes we make are in accord with God's will revealed in Scripture," Norton said.

Since the 2011 gay ordination vote, 428 of the denomination's more than 10,000 churches have left for other more conservative denominations or have dissolved, though some theological conservatives have remained within the denomination as they decide how to move forward. The church now has about 1.8 million members.

The conservative Presbyterian Lay Committee decried the votes in Detroit as an "abomination." The assembly voted 371-238 to allow ministers to celebrate same-sex marriages, and 429-175 in favor of amending the definition of marriage in the constitution.

"The General Assembly has committed an express repudiation of the Bible, the mutually agreed upon Confessions of the PCUSA, thousands of years of faithfulness to God's clear commands and the denominational ordination vows of each concurring commissioner," the Presbyterian Lay Committee said in a statement.

Of the mainline Protestant denominations, only the United Church of Christ supports gay marriage outright. The Episcopal Church has approved a prayer service for blessing same-sex unions. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has eliminated barriers for gay clergy but allows regional and local church officials to decide their own policies on ordination and blessings for same-sex couples.

The largest mainline group, the United Methodist Church, with about 7.8 million U.S. members, bars ordaining people in same-sex relationships. However, church members have been debating whether to split over their different views of the Bible and marriage. Gay marriage supporters have been recruiting clergy to openly officiate at same-sex ceremonies in protest of church policy.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/presbyte...stian-212658672.html

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Hi Jennifer Best,

 

If you will pay close attention -- you will find that all the doors of that church are on the FAR LEFT SIDE!   They enter from the Left, they sit on the Left, and their Bible only has the Left pages!

 

If YOU support Same-Sex Marriage -- you should also support Abortions.   After all, they are kissing cousins of the Far Left Liberal society.

 

Enough said!

 

Bless their Far Left Liberal hearts!

 

Bill

 

Marriage God's Way

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Last edited by Bill Gray

The Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A. has been flirting with acceptance of perversion for some time, every year bringing them closer to full endorsement of so-called gay "marriage." It is no surprise, then that they, continuing this Gadarene slide,  have now edged even closer to the precipice of across-the-board surrender. "Woe unto them that call good evil and evil good."

What perversion and what so called gay marriage? Marriage is a contract, nothing at all holy about it and people from all walks of life, mostly so called christians, break that contract all the time. Why do you care what kind of contract two consenting/able to consent, adults enter into? It's like everything else the christians take over, then claim it is and always has been, theirs, and everyone has to go by their rules. They've decided it's "christian" and that puts undies in a wad, but, imo it's not even their call to make, because there's no reason it has to be declared christian.

Speaking of divorce (which no one seems to get up in arms about), I saw this on a website and thought I would share.

 

What the Bible Says About Divorce (pick your version)

 

New International Version
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
New Living Translation
And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful."
English Standard Version
And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
New American Standard Bible
"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
King James Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."
International Standard Version
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
NET Bible
Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But I say to you, “Whoever divorces his wife apart from adultery and will take another, commits adultery, and whoever will take her who is divorced commits adultery.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
I can guarantee that whoever divorces his wife for any reason other than her unfaithfulness is committing adultery if he marries another woman."
Jubilee Bible 2000
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication and shall marry another, commits adultery, and whosoever marries her that is put away commits adultery.
King James 2000 Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her who is put away does commit adultery.
American King James Version
And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery.
American Standard Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.
Darby Bible Translation
But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, not for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and he who marries one put away commits adultery.
English Revised Version
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that marrieth her when she is put away committeth adultery.
Webster's Bible Translation
And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for lewdness, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoever marrieth her who is put away, committeth adultery.
Weymouth New Testament
And I tell you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except her unfaithfulness, and marries another woman, commits adultery."
World English Bible
I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and he who marries her when she is divorced commits adultery."
Young's Literal Translation
'And I say to you, that, whoever may put away his wife, if not for *****dom, and may marry another, doth commit adultery; and he who did marry her that hath been put away, doth commit adultery.'

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:

Who exactly is saying divorce is condoned by God?  Are you saying because the divorce rate is high, gay marriage is ok and God will just look the other way?  I've never seen any Christian on this forum say "divorce is a Christian act".  Ya'll are grasping at straws.

=============================

No one said anything about your god condoning divorce, no one said anything about the divorce rate, no one said divorce was a christian act, and no one is "grasping at straws". Read the post again. The question asked was:

"Which is more damaging to the institution of marriage?  Same sex marriage or divorce?  How about it, Bill"?

 **********************************************************

 

 gay marriage is ok and God will just look the other way?  

 

 

 For something you claim exists and is all powerful, your gawd seems to look away from a lot of things. Maybe you should talk to him about it.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:

Who exactly is saying divorce is condoned by God?  Are you saying because the divorce rate is high, gay marriage is ok and God will just look the other way?  I've never seen any Christian on this forum say "divorce is a Christian act".  Ya'll are grasping at straws.

=============================

No one said anything about your god condoning divorce, no one said anything about the divorce rate, no one said divorce was a christian act, and no one is "grasping at straws". Read the post again. The question asked was:

"Which is more damaging to the institution of marriage?  Same sex marriage or divorce?  How about it, Bill"?

 **********************************************************

 

 gay marriage is ok and God will just look the other way?  

 

 

 For something you claim exists and is all powerful, your gawd seems to look away from a lot of things. Maybe you should talk to him about it.


Namely?  I'd bet all the things you can think of end up being the work of humans, not God.  He's asking why you're allowing them to happen.  Free will can be a two edged sword.

Namely?  I'd bet all the things you can think of end up being the work of humans, not God.  He's asking why you're allowing them to happen.  Free will can be a two edged sword.

 

========================

Oh sheesh, that "free will" escape clause you all think you have. That gift that really isn't a gift because you can only use it the way your gift giver tells you. Get real. So, what we have here is, you say your gawd doesn't like homosexuals. Odd, since you all claim he's large and in charge and made everything. Why did he create them? OK, now since he doesn't like homosexuals you can call it perversion and all those other good adjectives you have for it and gay folks. BUT, for some reason all the other things your gawd doesn't like aren't perversions. Now then, you claim your gawd spoke against it. So, if your gawd hadn't spoken against it you'd be fine with it, there'd be no claims of perversion, and no name calling or little kids singing "ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven"?  Two consenting same sex adults could marry and they'd be treated like they had really done something swell and holy because some preacher fellow mumbled a few words at a contract ceremony? I guess all the people who are married by judges and others without all the holy mumbling are living in sin.

BTW, I could name quite a few things that aren't the work of humans. How about earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, just to name three.  In your mythical stories about the "old days" he didn't have a problem smiting the evil doers. Of course he smited the innocent too, but hey, you give him a pass on that. So then the dude mellowed out, reeled it in a bit. Maybe he went to anger management classes, and when he relapses he tosses an earthquake or something else and kills a few thousand people, just to remind you he can? Then claims all that other stuff is free will and he isn't going to own it and you just buy that?

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

BTW, I could name quite a few things that aren't the work of humans. How about earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, just to name three.  In your mythical stories about the "old days" he didn't have a problem smiting the evil doers. Of course he smited the innocent too, but hey, you give him a pass on that. So then the dude mellowed out, reeled it in a bit. Maybe he went to anger management classes, and when he relapses he tosses an earthquake or something else and kills a few thousand people, just to remind you he can? Then claims all that other stuff is free will and he isn't going to own it and you just buy that?


You give a jumbled plethora of reasons but in reality it boils down to you have free will to do right or wrong.  You do not have to do what He commands, contrary to your belief.  Look at yourself for proof of that statement.  Have you been sucked up by a tornado/hurricane/earthquake?

 

If God is real, and I believe He is, who He smites or smotes is out of your control or reasoning and you have no standing to armchair quarterback Him unless you are omnipotent, infinite, and sinless yourself.  Are you?

 

Nowhere in the Bible will you find an example of a gay marriage/relationship.  Everytime God/Jesus talks about marriage it consists of a man and a woman.  Divorce is not condoned by the Bible either.  I make no objection to that and you won't find any other Christians debating that either.  And yes, a practicing homosexual will not make it to heaven.  He/she will be in hell right along side the adulterers, murders, child molesters, pen thieves and other sinners who have not turned from whatever unGodly lifestyle they live and accept Jesus.

Last edited by Mr. Hooberbloob
grasping at straws.

=============================

No one said anything about your god condoning divorce, no one said anything about the divorce rate, no one said divorce was a christian act, and no one is "grasping at straws". Read the post again. The question asked was:

"Which is more damaging to the institution of marriage?  Same sex marriage or divorce?  How about it, Bill"?

 **********************************************************

 


You are trying to justify a negative with a negative.  Again, straw grasping.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
grasping at straws.

=============================

No one said anything about your god condoning divorce, no one said anything about the divorce rate, no one said divorce was a christian act, and no one is "grasping at straws". Read the post again. The question asked was:

"Which is more damaging to the institution of marriage?  Same sex marriage or divorce?  How about it, Bill"?

 **********************************************************

 


You are trying to justify a negative with a negative.  Again, straw grasping.

 

====================

Justify a negative with a negative? By explaining a statement? What negative? You post something that has nothing to do with anything posted, imo that's the negative and straw grasping.

 

Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

BTW, I could name quite a few things that aren't the work of humans. How about earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, just to name three.  In your mythical stories about the "old days" he didn't have a problem smiting the evil doers. Of course he smited the innocent too, but hey, you give him a pass on that. So then the dude mellowed out, reeled it in a bit. Maybe he went to anger management classes, and when he relapses he tosses an earthquake or something else and kills a few thousand people, just to remind you he can? Then claims all that other stuff is free will and he isn't going to own it and you just buy that?


You give a jumbled plethora of reasons but in reality it boils down to you have free will to do right or wrong.  You do not have to do what He commands, contrary to your belief.  Look at yourself for proof of that statement.  Have you been sucked up by a tornado/hurricane/earthquake?

 

 Well of course I don't do what a mythical god commands. I survived a tornado. Another could still happen, it could happen to you. Plenty of other innocents have been sucked up and killed. Free will is bull, but if you want to use it to explain away why your gawd allows horrors to happen to innocent people, and doesn't punish the guilty, have at it.

If God is real, and I believe He is, who He smites or smotes is out of your control or reasoning and you have no standing to armchair quarterback Him unless you are omnipotent, infinite, and sinless yourself.  Are you?

 To "armchair quarterback" him I'd have to believe he exists. He doesn't. As far as his "smoting", again, he doesn't exist.  Of course it's out of my control, if it was in my control there wouldn't be evil in the world. Yes, I am sinless. So are many, many, many others that you try to paint with your sin brush.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find an example of a gay marriage/relationship.  Everytime God/Jesus talks about marriage it consists of a man and a woman.  Divorce is not condoned by the Bible either.  I make no objection to that and you won't find any other Christians debating that either.  And yes, a practicing homosexual will not make it to heaven.  He/she will be in hell right along side the adulterers, murders, child molesters, pen thieves and other sinners who have not turned from whatever unGodly lifestyle they live and accept Jesus.

You have a reading comprehension problem. No one said there were gay marriages in the bible. I haven't. So your god only wants marriage between a man and a woman, big whoop. Apparently he was against a lot of things you christians still do, so it means you're living an ungodly lifestyle. I basically asked, but you missed the point, would you be a better person if he didn't oppose it. Meaning that because your gawd doesn't like it you take it to mean you can call people perverts and other names and condemn them to hell, and smile when a little child is taught hate.  BTW, one day that little darling just might tell the wrong person "ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven". I've said it before, your gawd needs better salesmen. Even though you all attempt to clean him up, he still comes across as a vengeful murderous monster.

=================

 

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:

Who exactly is saying divorce is condoned by God?  Are you saying because the divorce rate is high, gay marriage is ok and God will just look the other way?  I've never seen any Christian on this forum say "divorce is a Christian act".  Ya'll are grasping at straws.

________________________

No one is saying that divorce is condoned by God.  Quite the contrary. 

 

Homosexuality, however, is another matter.  God himself says nothing about it, and Jesus says nothing about it.  Only Leviticus has problems with homosexuality, but he also has problems with eating pork and shellfish, tattoos, and wearing clothing made with mixed fibers.  In the New Testament, Paul relies on Leviticus to support his anti-gay position.  He has no other authority.  So if you believe that homosexuality goes against the Bible, put down your BBQ sandwich, throw out all your cotton/polyester blend clothing, and have your tattoos removed, 'cause they go against the Bible also.

 

So, for all those anti-gay marriage people that say that gay marriage would destroy the institution of marriage, the question I ask is:  which is more harmful to the institution of marriage - marriage between two people who love each other or divorce?

So, for all those anti-gay marriage people that say that gay marriage would destroy the institution of marriage, the question I ask is:  which is more harmful to the institution of marriage - marriage between two people who love each other or divorce?

------------------------------------

Or cheating, or living together and having children out of wedlock, or having children without being married but not living together, and not taking care of those children. I'd say those and other things do more harm to the so called institution of marriage than two consenting adults of the same sex marrying. (Entering into a contract).

Last edited by Bestworking

It's funny, have to admit that. Their god doesn't like it. Well, according to them their god doesn't like a lot of things, but they do them anyway and/or condones it when their friends and families do it. Two of them suffer from severe cases of narcissism, and the worse of them is eaten up by false pride. I call it false pride because the things he brags about aren't worthy of bragging, or just aren't true.

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