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Propaganda: The similarities between G.W. Bush and Nazi chief Goebbels speeches

J Jan55Old Faithful
"never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.": Joseph Goebbels : Nazi chief of propaganda

Propaganda: The similarities between G.W. Bush and Goebbels speeches http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4433.htm

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EdEKitEdEKitFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
To compare or even think to compare Bush with the Nazi's is unAmerican, historically and factually incorrect, and downright wrong.
To compare Hitler and Bush is incorrect ONLY if you compare the totality of Hitler's History with Bush. If you compare beginning with the Spanish Civil War, and running up to about 1939, the time Prescott Bush was supporting Hitler, there are clear, concise and reasonable parallels.
Agreed, Bush has not rounded up millions of people, or committed mass executions.
He has restricted rights to protest. He has restricted Movement into and out of the country.
He has enabled, and in no small measure deamonized liberals, labor leaders, homosexuals, and a specific ethnic/religious group. He has called critics unpatriotic, he has refused to respond to questions concerning his authority, he has altered legislation to fit his agenda, and he has announced a Doctrine of Domination.

The next step, in the Nazi Model, is the "final solution."
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
To compare or even think to compare Bush with the Nazi's is unAmerican, historically and factually incorrect, and downright wrong.



As you well know, Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush, ran the Union Bank and Hoover closed Bush's bank down and arrested his partner, and somehow Prescott Bush with his power and influence, managed not to get arrested. You can do a google on Prescott Bush, George W. Bush's granddad, and Hitler and you will find many sites that will talk about the history where the Bush family backed up Hitler financially. Check it out and see for yourself.
I interventorPost Master
Ed & pba,

Either you believe in a religion that visits the sins of the ancestors upon the descendents; or you believe in a conspiracy so vast as to include the Illuminati, Knights Templar, the Skull and Bones, Freemasons, and Rotary club or, what's the point?

That way lies madness at best or tin foil hats and lead lined bedrooms (before the padded walls and white fitted vests).
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Ed & pba,

Either you believe in a religion that visits the sins of the ancestors upon the descendents; or you believe in a conspiracy so vast as to include the Illuminati, Knights Templar, the Skull and Bones, Freemasons, and Rotary club or, what's the point?

That way lies madness at best or tin foil hats and lead lined bedrooms (before the padded walls and white fitted vests).




Interventor, I expect replies like yours coming from the RIGHT WING WACKOS!LOL
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Ed & pba,

Either you believe in a religion that visits the sins of the ancestors upon the descendents; or you believe in a conspiracy so vast as to include the Illuminati, Knights Templar, the Skull and Bones, Freemasons, and Rotary club or, what's the point?

That way lies madness at best or tin foil hats and lead lined bedrooms (before the padded walls and white fitted vests).


Give it up interventor. They are a couple of conspiracy theory wackos and nothing you can do will change that. The sad part is that Ed is smarter than this. I don't understand why he continues down this line of reasoning?
B BradshawBruin02Hall of Famer
There's nothing wrong with watching our leadership for the same behavior as the historical figures that we find contemptible. In fact, it could very well be the MOST American thing we can do. Never forget that e pluribus unum refers to the strength of the people when we stand united against enemies both foreign and domestic. We have foreign enemies right now; we must always be on our guard to ensure our government does not become a domestic foe to the people.

Bush is NOT the 21st-Century Hitler; that is a very certain and honest deduction. However, through many of his policies and his unprecedented number of signing statements, President Bush has displayed his intent to strengthen the executive branch to a new and dangerous high. And yes, Bush has used similar (not identical) tactics to those that Hitler used to expedite his goals (including establishing an absolute "us versus them" mentality ("Axis of Evil," anyone?) and effectively utilizing the power of fear in the populace, in this case the laughable Terrorism Threat Level system).

Did he do so intentionally? Probably not. Is he the only president in history to do this? No. But we must take notice. The people must be involved in our government so that history never repeats itself.
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
There's nothing wrong with watching our leadership for the same behavior as the historical figures that we find contemptible. In fact, it could very well be the MOST American thing we can do. Never forget that e pluribus unum refers to the strength of the people when we stand united against enemies both foreign and domestic. We have foreign enemies right now; we must always be on our guard to ensure our government does not become a domestic foe to the people.

Bush is NOT the 21st-Century Hitler; that is a very certain and honest deduction. However, through many of his policies and his unprecedented number of signing statements, President Bush has displayed his intent to strengthen the executive branch to a new and dangerous high. And yes, Bush has used similar (not identical) tactics to those that Hitler used to expedite his goals (including establishing an absolute "us versus them" mentality ("Axis of Evil," anyone?) and effectively utilizing the power of fear in the populace, in this case the laughable Terrorism Threat Level system).

Did he do so intentionally? Probably not. Is he the only president in history to do this? No. But we must take notice. The people must be involved in our government so that history never repeats itself.


The biggest argument against GWB trying to be an "imperial" president (no that wasn't your quote, just see and hear it often) is the fact that in less than 2 years he is OUT. No matter how much power he gains for the Executive, he will never be able to use it after 2008.
B BradshawBruin02Hall of Famer
It's fair to say that Bush himself will not profit from his efforts. But what about the next president? Most conservatives shudder at the thought of Hillary Clinton sitting in the Oval Office. How about Hillary Clinton sitting at the helm of an Executive branch strengthened beyond reason by her so-called conservative predecessor? Isn't that reason enough to be afraid?
S SeaweedPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
QUOTE]

The biggest argument against GWB trying to be an "imperial" president (no that wasn't your quote, just see and hear it often) is the fact that in less than 2 years he is OUT. No matter how much power he gains for the Executive, he will never be able to use it after 2008.

===============================================

THank God when he will be gone! I had some fear during his 2004 campaign that he may , with the help of his rubber stamp congress, attempt to continue on with his rhetoric about "changing horses in midstreem" in his Iraq war. Since the citizens of this country wisly saw fit to deny him his congress, good ridence.
If you study the rise of Hitler, however, there are some discomforting similarities between how both Bush and Hitler rose to power. Hitler found out to never admit a mistake, co-op with the church to help him stay in power, using rhetoric that to support HIM is patoritism, as apposed to support of one's country.
Others abound.
OneWhoPost mentioned Machiavelli who basically believed, if memory serves me right, that you should sieze power and kill all those who oppose you. From a political point of view, that is what the far right has been doing for some time now.
Last edited by Seaweed
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
It's fair to say that Bush himself will not profit from his efforts. But what about the next president? Most conservatives shudder at the thought of Hillary Clinton sitting in the Oval Office. How about Hillary Clinton sitting at the helm of an Executive branch strengthened beyond reason by her so-called conservative predecessor? Isn't that reason enough to be afraid?


I still don't quite understand what these "super powers" are that GWB has usurped for the executive branch?
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
QUOTE]

The biggest argument against GWB trying to be an "imperial" president (no that wasn't your quote, just see and hear it often) is the fact that in less than 2 years he is OUT. No matter how much power he gains for the Executive, he will never be able to use it after 2008.

===============================================

THank God when he will be gone! I had some fear during his 2004 campaign that he may , with the help of his rubber stamp congress, attempt to continue on with his rhetoric about "changing horses in midstreem" in his Iraq war. Since the citizens of this country wisly saw fit to deny him his congress, good ridence.
If you study the rise of Hitler, however, there are some discomforting similarities between how both Bush and Hitler rose to power. Hitler found out to never admit a mistake, co-op with the church to help him stay in power, using rhetoric that to support HIM is patoritism, as apposed to support of one's country.
Others abound.
OneWhoPost mentioned Machiabelli who basically believed, if memory serves me right, that you should sieze power and kill all those who oppose you. From a political point of view, that is what the far right has been doing for some time now.


Drive on with your Hitler comments. When a debate boils down to comparing Hitler to a sitting U.S. president it has... Oh nevermind. It never was a debate to begin with...
B BradshawBruin02Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
When a debate boils down to comparing Hitler to a sitting U.S. president it has... Oh nevermind. It never was a debate to begin with...


Is the alternative of not comparing our leaders to previous historical leaders any way to go about things? Let me explain my position: I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do not affiliate myself with either political party. I am suspicious (just suspicious, not accusative) of all politicians for the simple reason that people that are not suspicious of politicians (read: people who will have the power and the opportunity to control your life) end up "living" under oppressive regimes. I support our political system because I honestly believe we have the best setup in the world.

Why do I support comparing Bush (or any president/presidential candidate) to the villain that was Hitler? Aside from making Bush look like a saint, it is because if we don't remind ourselves of what happened in 1930s Germany then we will recreate it in America.
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
When a debate boils down to comparing Hitler to a sitting U.S. president it has... Oh nevermind. It never was a debate to begin with...


Is the alternative of not comparing our leaders to previous historical leaders any way to go about things? Let me explain my position: I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do not affiliate myself with either political party. I am suspicious (just suspicious, not accusative) of all politicians for the simple reason that people that are not suspicious of politicians (read: people who will have the power and the opportunity to control your life) end up "living" under oppressive regimes. I support our political system because I honestly believe we have the best setup in the world.

Why do I support comparing Bush to the villain that was Hitler? Aside from making Bush look like a saint, it is because if we don't remind ourselves of what happened in 1930s Germany then we will recreate it in America.


My problem with comparing anybody to Hitler immediately causes debate to cease and everyone to get defensive. There is no need to throw Hitler in to honest debate on politics. PERIOD.
B BradshawBruin02Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
I still don't quite understand what these "super powers" are that GWB has usurped for the executive branch?


Just a few, and I'll post more later:

The Patriot Act, its use and its abuse (read: The FBI issuing 140,000 letters without court knowledge, much less approval, demanding service providers reveal confidential information about clients and imposing a gag order under penalty of law against those service providers on the matter).
The suspension of habeas corpus.
The use of extraordinary rendition.
The circumvention of the judiciary in matters of wiretapping and rerouting of correspondence. Notice on this one that the executive branch could have just as easily gotten approval from the courts for the spying before and even after they were committed.

I'll post more later. For now, work.
B BradshawBruin02Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
My problem with comparing anybody to Hitler immediately causes debate to cease and everyone to get defensive. There is no need to throw Hitler in to honest debate on politics. PERIOD.


What about comparing anybody to Hitler immediately causes debate to cease? I'm not ending the debate. Are you? Why?

What's dishonest is when folks leave Hitler out of the debate. Hitler happened. We cannot forget that. Now, as I said earlier, I do not equate Bush to Hitler.
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
When a debate boils down to comparing Hitler to a sitting U.S. president it has... Oh nevermind. It never was a debate to begin with...


Is the alternative of not comparing our leaders to previous historical leaders any way to go about things? Let me explain my position: I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do not affiliate myself with either political party. I am suspicious (just suspicious, not accusative) of all politicians for the simple reason that people that are not suspicious of politicians (read: people who will have the power and the opportunity to control your life) end up "living" under oppressive regimes. I support our political system because I honestly believe we have the best setup in the world.

Why do I support comparing Bush (or any president/presidential candidate) to the villain that was Hitler? Aside from making Bush look like a saint, it is because if we don't remind ourselves of what happened in 1930s Germany then we will recreate it in America.



Well Said!
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
SP,

Let me point out an edit I made to a post you quoted, which doesn't sound so one-sided against the current administration:

"Why do I support comparing Bush (or any president/presidential candidate) to the villain that was Hitler?"


I personaly believe comparing the 2nd most terrible excuse for a human being (I consider Stalin #1 because of sheer body count) immediately makes anyone who would support GWB or anybody else accused of being like Hitler defensive. It is overkill on an immense scale and unneed. It only inflames tension in a debate. I see it kinda like accusing someone of being like the KKK just because they are against illegal immigration.
Rowan OakRowan OakHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
SP,

Let me point out an edit I made to a post you quoted, which doesn't sound so one-sided against the current administration:

"Why do I support comparing Bush (or any president/presidential candidate) to the villain that was Hitler?"


I personaly believe comparing the 2nd most terrible excuse for a human being (I consider Stalin #1 because of sheer body count) immediately makes anyone who would support GWB or anybody else accused of being like Hitler defensive. It is overkill on an immense scale and unneed. It only inflames tension in a debate. I see it kinda like accusing someone of being like the KKK just because they are against illegal immigration.


SP,

Mass murdering does not have to be present for ideology to be the same. I would say the KKK/Illegal comparison is quite valid.
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
SP,

Let me point out an edit I made to a post you quoted, which doesn't sound so one-sided against the current administration:

"Why do I support comparing Bush (or any president/presidential candidate) to the villain that was Hitler?"


I personaly believe comparing the 2nd most terrible excuse for a human being (I consider Stalin #1 because of sheer body count) immediately makes anyone who would support GWB or anybody else accused of being like Hitler defensive. It is overkill on an immense scale and unneed. It only inflames tension in a debate. I see it kinda like accusing someone of being like the KKK just because they are against illegal immigration.


SP,

Mass murdering does not have to be present for ideology to be the same. I would say the KKK/Illegal comparison is quite valid.


You can say it, you just can't back it up.
B BradshawBruin02Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
I personaly believe comparing the 2nd most terrible excuse for a human being (I consider Stalin #1 because of sheer body count) immediately makes anyone who would support GWB or anybody else accused of being like Hitler defensive. It is overkill on an immense scale and unneed. It only inflames tension in a debate. I see it kinda like accusing someone of being like the KKK just because they are against illegal immigration.


I'm not suggesting that we put the president of the United States on the same level with Hitler. What I am saying is that we as a people should collectively say to the president, "Hey, we're keeping an eye on you! We want you to be the polar opposite of [insert villain here; in this case, Hitler]" Americans are gaining a reputation for being apathetic towards politics, for letting the government play their games while they watch American Idol. At the most, the typical American is simply a parrot gwakking out whatever Fox News, CNN or MSNBC told him/her to think. We need to be passionate and well-informed about politics! But we can't let a debate die because of an emotional response to an audacious suggestion.
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
I personaly believe comparing the 2nd most terrible excuse for a human being (I consider Stalin #1 because of sheer body count) immediately makes anyone who would support GWB or anybody else accused of being like Hitler defensive. It is overkill on an immense scale and unneed. It only inflames tension in a debate. I see it kinda like accusing someone of being like the KKK just because they are against illegal immigration.


I'm not suggesting that we put the president of the United States on the same level with Hitler. What I am saying is that we as a people should collectively say to the president, "Hey, we're keeping an eye on you! We want you to be the polar opposite of [insert villain here; in this case, Hitler]" Americans are gaining a reputation for being apathetic towards politics, for letting the government play their games while they watch American Idol. At the most, the typical American is simply a parrot gwakking out whatever Fox News, CNN or MSNBC told him/her to think. We need to be passionate and well-informed about politics! But we can't let a debate die because of an emotional response to an audacious suggestion.


I absolutely agree with you. There are too many people out there who just don't give a **** one way or the other. There are also those who are blind Dem or Rep and "vote that way 'casue my daddy did". People need to be MUCH more engaged in what is going on in the world. If anyone get ALL their news from watching the talking heads on ANY of the mass media spew pots they have no REAL grasp on whats going on in the world. People need to go get the info then make their own educated decisions. But I have to hold to my premise that throwing a lightning rod (Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, KKK or whatever) into a discussion tends to trun a debate into a ***** fest. Big Grin
Southern PatriotSouthern PatriotHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
It does have that effect sometimes. I try to refrain from directly comparing anyone with a nefarious character or organization, but I believe it is fair to compare characteristics, behaviors and actions.


I totaly understand comparing "characteristics, behaviors and actions". I would just say that it helps debate to find those same elements in an individual who is not quite as horrible as the ones listed above.
Rowan OakRowan OakHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by BradshawBruin02:
It does have that effect sometimes. I try to refrain from directly comparing anyone with a nefarious character or organization, but I believe it is fair to compare characteristics, behaviors and actions.


I totaly understand comparing "characteristics, behaviors and actions". I would just say that it helps debate to find those same elements in an individual who is not quite as horrible as the ones listed above.


It's also wise to note that they were a part of Hitler's psyche in order to understand the possibilities.
S SeaweedPost Master
I made a statement earlier in the day that there seemed to be some troubling similarities in the way Bush and Hitler rose to power. I would suggest the following link: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm . A rather long article on the rise of Hitler and Nazis, but informative. Following is a passage from that article :

Hitler's Germany became known as a fascist state. Fascist was originally used to describe the government of Benito Mussolini in Italy. Mussolini's fascist one-party state emphasized patriotism, national unity, hatred of communism, admiration of military values and unquestioning obedience. Hitler was deeply influenced by Mussolini's Italy and his Germany shared many of the same characteristics.

I am not suggesting that Bush is a reincarnation of Hitler. However , we should be careful when we see comparisons between historical events and current events, and be sure not to let anyone have enough power to repete the bad of the past, especilly the unquestioned obedience (we could call this loyality) to a single powerful person.
We must look at the past to improve the future.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
I made a statement earlier in the day that there seemed to be some troubling similarities in the way Bush and Hitler rose to power. I would suggest the following link: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm . A rather long article on the rise of Hitler and Nazis, but informative. Following is a passage from that article :

Hitler's Germany became known as a fascist state. Fascist was originally used to describe the government of Benito Mussolini in Italy. Mussolini's fascist one-party state emphasized patriotism, national unity, hatred of communism, admiration of military values and unquestioning obedience. Hitler was deeply influenced by Mussolini's Italy and his Germany shared many of the same characteristics.

I am not suggesting that Bush is a reincarnation of Hitler. However , we should be careful when we see comparisons between historical events and current events, and be sure not to let anyone have enough power to repete the bad of the past, especilly the unquestioned obedience (we could call this loyality) to a single powerful person.
We must look at the past to improve the future.
WELL PUT -- BRAVO

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