Originally Posted by gbrk:
1) What I would like to see is where in the scriptures of either the Old Testament or New Testament (or Both) about the future prophecy for the apostles you mentioned?
2) Where in the scriptures (OT or NT) does it foretell of Joseph Smith?
3) Where in the Old Testament or New Testament do you have confirming and correlating prophecy to those you say are within the Book of Mormon or where even is the prophecy of a coming Book of Mormon?
4) Also why is it that the Mormon Church supports only the King James Version and rejects all other translations of the Scriptures which were not only taken from many of the same manuscripts that the King James was?
5) Does the Mormon Church teach that God had a beginning/Origin like man or any other created thing? Was this revealed through the KJV or through the Book of Mormon?
GBRK, there are answers for all the above questions but some will take a long time to relate them. I will answer some but you must do as told in James 1:5-6. The answers that will stay with you are the ones you have to work for and the ones you get from God.
One thing about using James 1:5&6 is it's context is regarding those in trials and tribulation with instructions for praying for wisdom in understanding why a believer would be going through trials and tribulations. What James is instructing is those who find themselves in these trials verse 1 tells to whom this passage is to, the twelve tribes (James 1:2-4) instructs them what to do when in trials and that is to seek wisdom. The instructions of vs 6-8 are not to doubt and waver, account of the difficulties and trials that continue and they are in. If you re-read the verses along with those prior and after I think you will see this is not about asking for wisdom about the scriptures.
For everything I am about to write, ASK GOD if it is true or lies.
1. In the Bible many things are foretold. If you will remember, ( This all is up to you to find in the Bible and pray about!) Jesus brought what is called His Gospel, He set up His organization with Him at the head and then, ( by laying on of hands), ordained His 12 Apostles.
In ALL dispensations, God had one Prophet that He revealed things to, the prophet was the head. God did nothing unless He revealed it through His chosen mouthpiece. AMOS 3:7
This particular verse (7) in Amos is about the prophet Amos and for the people to accept him as a Prophet with a specific message from God.(Amos 7:14-15 Amos was an unlikely prophet but was given a mission from God and a message for the people about the coming Judgment where Israel would be wiped out by the Assyrians and Judah would then go into exile in Babylon. Amos was the prophet chosen by God to deliver this prophecy to the people of Israel). To use this passage to point to any other prophet or message, well I would not be comfortable with it.
GODS ORGANIZATION ALWAYS HAD A PROPHET AT THE HEAD OF IT!
The Lord schooled the Prophet, the Prophet instructed the Apostles and they took the word out to the people. REMEMBER< GOD IS A GOD OF ORDER.
Gods POWER and AUTHORITY was passed down the line the same way by the laying on of hands.
After Christ was murdered Peter was the head of the organization . Peter taught the apostles what God wanted them to teach the people. Peter and the Apostles had Gods power and authority.
Eventually all the Apostles were killed off which also removed Gods power and authority and Christs organization fell apart, this is known as the great apostasy.
Without the Prophet or Apostiles, men started changing Christs organization and teaching false doctrine, much of which is still believed today. The Apostacy was fortoled in the following scriptures;
ACTS 20:28-30 (Paul instructing the Elders at Ephesus that he was going away and not to return again. That after he leaves false teachers would swoop in teaching a polluted Gospel to the early church and they were to guard against it. Some of these false teachers will come from within the Church at Ephesus. Paul emphasized that he had taught this to the Church for 3 years. There is nothing in this scripture that points to any other Church or group of people at another time. To indicate so is to take quite a liberty with Paul's words and instruction.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 ( Here there is instruction with an eye toward the future, actually the END Times. Paul is saying for those listening to and reading this letter to not become unsettled at word from anyone that Christ had come and Raptured the Church leaving them behind. Many were very unsettled about this thinking they had been left behind. Paul in 1 Thes 4 taught the rapture was coming and he was required to instruct them in this letter to clarify when that time would be. The instruction was that Christ would not return for them and the Church (the Rapture) until after the AntiChrist had been revealed (vs 3) Paul instructs about the abomination that causes desolation in vs 4 of this passage. In vs 15 Paul encourages them to remember what they had been taught (about the rapture and end times) and be steady and firm in those teachings.
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (Timothy was leader over Ephesus and this passage was the fulfillment of the warning of Paul in Acts 20:20&30 Paul is writing about the event he warned about and that is has now happened. Note the reference from Revelation 2:2 concerning the letter to the Church of Ephesus. The exact same things will be mirrored in the Last Days preceding Christ Return.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 ( More warnings to believers about those that will come later that will pervert and change the gospel of Christ, emphasis is to stay on that which was taught from the beginning, by Christ and the apostles as recorded in the Scriptures of the New Testament)
2 Peter 2:1-2 to name a few. (It is interesting that you use this scripture for this one scripture does warn about false prophets that will come after Christ time. This passage has been applied by many to various "cults" and other people claiming to be Christ or Prophets of Christ such as those with Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Joseph Smith. The real question then is to verify from the Scriptures that provide Christ teachings and the original apostles letters to the Churches, as to who any future prophets, teachers or witnesses would be, if there would be any then they should be found in Scripture. There are two that are found and prophesied and they are the two Witnesses found in Revelation 11 )
At this point the world was going through what was known as the Dark Ages.
Now , in the Bible Jesus talked about gathering his people toghther one last time before the final comming and destruction of the world. This could never be done without a RESTORATION of His Original origanization with a Prophet to receive revelation from God on how to do so. This meant there must be a restoration of all things as at first with Apostles and all other positions in Jesus organization.
( I can only use your own words above (that I highlighted in bold) regarding Jesus talking about gathering his people together one last time before His 2nd Coming and Armageddon, the End days. This wording used in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 where it references the gathering together with Christ but the context of this section of scripture clearly shows this to be after the antichrist and at the end days as defined as the 70th week of Daniel. Christ references this directly in Matthew 24 and the gathering together specifically in Matthew 24:30-31. Many Christians call this the Rapture and Paul references it also in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. If this is not the coming together that you are talking about then please share with me the specific scripture KJV or else that references this specific gathering together.)
Thats enough on that for now.
In order for me to answer number two, You need to first pray about what I have thus far said and receive an answer from God if I have lied to you or told you the truth, But it is in the scriptures.
( I have prayed regarding how to address an answer and I hope I have done so sufficiently. I rely upon Romans 8:26 & 27 with regards to Prayer and a continual attitude of prayer in addition to the specifically addressing our request to God)
To answer number three. Have you read in your bible about the LOST TEN TRIBES?
Do you ever remember Jesus refering to people as SHEEP and nations as FOLDS?
Do you remember Jesus ever saying that SHEEP of another FOLD have I and to them too I must bring? (Yes I do, in fact it has to do with John 10:16 I do realize that different people interpret the scriptures different ways. Along witht adding my personal feelings about John 10:16 let me ask you a question about this. Christ was speaking to Jewish people at this time. Would you not concede or accept that Christ could have been talking about the Gentiles as the "other Sheep"?
If you do take this interpretation then it's also easy to see this from Galatians 3:28 and Romans 11 as well as Romans 10:12, Ephesians 2:11-22 and Ephesians 3:1-13. Would you not agree that another interpretation of John 10:16 was the Christ was preparing the Jews for acceptance of Gentiles that would be brought into the Body of Christ and not just Jews.
It's pretty clear that Christ was using a parable with them from verse 6 and He saw that they were not getting it so He restated it by explaining it to them. Christ IS the gate for the sheep (all the sheep) and that's clear from vs 7.
Also John 10:15 can be compared to John 10:30. Jesus is providing a link between Him and the Father. This would be a very tough thing for Jewish followers to accept, that Christ was in fact God in Flesh come to Man. Also tough for the Jews to accept would be that the Gentiles would be added to their flock, grafted in (Romans 11) yet Christ was preparing them for this in vs 16? Given the scriptures in John 10 along with the Jews and other scriptures to reinforce what the other sheep would mean I can only believe Christ is talking about the Gentiles and teaching the Jews that salvation will be opened upon unto the Gentiles.
Have you ever heard of the TRIBE of JUDA and the TRIBE of JOSEPH spoken of in the Bible?
When things were written down back then , they were written on a material and wrapped around a stick, this was called SCROLES. PRAY about that one.
Now, get your Bible out and read EZEK.37:15-19 Know we know the stick of Juda is what is known today as the BIBLE. WHAT AND WHERE IS THE STICK OF JOSEPH???????
(Ezekiel 37:15-28 is prophecying to the Jews that one day they will be joined again, as the two sticks were joined before the people. Although they didn't understand it then it was and is a reference to the new Jerusalem when the twelve tribes will be reunited and God will once again place His temple in their midst and they will be under ONE KING (Christ Jesus).
Number 4. The best I can figgure for that one is to standardize what Bible all members of our church will use so we are all on the same sheet of music. Otherwise, I dont know.
Number 5 This seems to be a reference to the verse in 1 John about Jesus or God being pree existant.
Im gonna tell ya now, it may take some time for this answer to sink in BUT, after you read it, dont disreguard it till you pray and ask God if I am lying or if it is true.
The Bible refers to this earth, The Bible says Jesus built or created this earth and all that is in it and on it. In order for Jesus to be able to do this He INDEED needed to exist before It was created. SO, as said in 1 John that Jesus was Pre existant, In that context, YES WE BELIEVE AND TEACH THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS PRE EXISTANT!!! The phraise " IN THE BEGINING" Is refering to the begining OF THIS EARTHS EXISTANCE.
well enough for now, read what I have written then PONDER IT IN YOUR HEART, then follow JAMES 1:5-6