Prophet and Living Apostles to speak to the world

Tomorrow, SUNDAY, 10-02-11  at 11 Am Central time, The world will be addressed by some of the Lords 12 living Apostles and His mouthpiece to the world, Pres. Monson, Will be on TV and the internet giving revelation to the world on how to prepare to meet God.

 

      For those with Direct Tv, they will be on the BYU chanel. I think it is 374

      For those with internet, go to LDS.com and click on the BYU chanel for GENERAL CONFERENCE

 

Some of you may have never listened to a Prophet of God or living Apostles, it will be a Spiritual Feast no matter what your religious are or even if you are an Athiest!

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Original Post

Hi Dwight,

 

So, you are telling us that the twelve apostles Jesus Christ appointed during His earthy ministry (the twelve minus Judas, but including His latest, Paul) will be speaking to the world this week from Salt Lake City,  And, the Holy Spirit (the ONLY "mouthpiece" God has sent to us since the resurrection of Jesus Christ) -- will be the Guest Speaker.

 

Wow.  That I would love to watch.  But, unfortunately, the only way for that to happen is for the Rapture to occur.  And, then, we will be hearing them in person -- in heaven.

 

By the way, since, in the Bible, these are the only apostles of Christ -- and the Holy Spirit is the only voice we hear today -- what did you have in mind?  Are you saying the Rapture is going to happen this week?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dwight,

 

So, you are telling us that the twelve apostles Jesus Christ appointed during His earthy ministry (the twelve minus Judas, but including His latest, Paul) will be speaking to the world this week from Salt Lake City,  And, the Holy Spirit (the ONLY "mouthpiece" God has sent to us since the resurrection of Jesus Christ) -- will be the Guest Speaker.

 

Wow.  That I would love to watch.  But, unfortunately, the only way for that to happen is for the Rapture to occur.  And, then, we will be hearing them in person -- in heaven.

 

By the way, since, in the Bible, these are the only apostles of Christ -- and the Holy Spirit is the only voice we hear today -- what did you have in mind?  Are you saying the Rapture is going to happen this week?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill, when YOU put limitations on God, You are the one that gets your spiritual growth damed, ( as in blocked). Yes, these are Apostles appointed by Jesus Christ and given His power and authority to act in His name.

 

   No, they dont walk around in robes carying stafs.

 

Modern day Apostles, Bill. Selected by Jesus in this modern day to lead guide and direct us through the problems facing MODERN soceity.  Same Gospel, Same God, Same Jesus just with revelation for modern man in modern times!

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Hi Crusty,

In an earlier post, I wrote to Dwight, "So, you are telling us that the twelve apostles Jesus Christ appointed during His earthy ministry (the twelve minus Judas, but including His latest, Paul) will be speaking to the world this week from Salt Lake City,  And, the Holy  Spirit (the ONLY "mouthpiece" God has sent to us since the resurrection of Jesus Christ) -- will be the Guest Speaker."

And, you ask, "So who wrote the Bible again?  You're confusing yourself."

Crusty, I am not sure who is really confused.  But, I am glad you asked the question so that we can clear up any confusion which  may still reside within your mind.

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in  righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Who is the Holy Spirit?  He is God!  He is the Third Person of the Trinity.  The Trinity is God manifested, revealed, in three distinct Persons:  God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

You might view these as God the Father - the Master Architect (setting all Creation in motion, Genesis 1:1) -- Jesus Christ, God  the Son - the Master Builder (through Him all things came into being, John 1:3) -- God the Holy Spirit - the Master Contractor (moving, Genesis 1:2; Eternal Helper, John 14:16). 

 

One God -- three distinct Persons -- together bringing the offer of eternal salvation to mankind.

So, yes, Crusty -- the Bible, ALL SCRIPTURE, is inspired, God inspired -- by the Holy Spirit, given to 40 men in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- and containing one theme -- salvation for all mankind who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive the "free gift" of eternal life in Christ.

My Friend, where do you find confusion?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

In an earlier post, I wrote to Dwight, "So, you are telling us that the twelve apostles Jesus Christ appointed during His earthy ministry (the twelve minus Judas, but including His latest, Paul) will be speaking to the world this week from Salt Lake City,  And, the Holy  Spirit (the ONLY "mouthpiece" God has sent to us since the resurrection of Jesus Christ) -- will be the Guest Speaker."

And, you ask, "So who wrote the Bible again?  You're confusing yourself."

Crusty, I am not sure who is really confused.  But, I am glad you asked the question so that we can clear up any confusion which  may still reside within your mind.

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in  righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Who is the Holy Spirit?  He is God!  He is the Third Person of the Trinity.  The Trinity is God manifested, revealed, in three distinct Persons:  God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

You might view these as God the Father - the Master Architect (setting all Creation in motion, Genesis 1:1) -- Jesus Christ, God  the Son - the Master Builder (through Him all things came into being, John 1:3) -- God the Holy Spirit - the Master Contractor (moving, Genesis 1:2; Eternal Helper, John 14:16). 

 

One God -- three distinct Persons -- together bringing the offer of eternal salvation to mankind.

So, yes, Crusty -- the Bible, ALL SCRIPTURE, is inspired, God inspired -- by the Holy Spirit, given to 40 men in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- and containing one theme -- salvation for all mankind who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive the "free gift" of eternal life in Christ.

My Friend, where do you find confusion?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

______________

Sounds like 40 mouthpieces to me.   You do know that the Holy Spirit isn't a ghost, right?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

In an earlier post, I wrote to Dwight, "So, you are telling us that the twelve apostles Jesus Christ appointed during His earthy ministry (the twelve minus Judas, but including His latest, Paul) will be speaking to the world this week from Salt Lake City,  And, the Holy  Spirit (the ONLY "mouthpiece" God has sent to us since the resurrection of Jesus Christ) -- will be the Guest Speaker."

And, you ask, "So who wrote the Bible again?  You're confusing yourself."

Crusty, I am not sure who is really confused.  But, I am glad you asked the question so that we can clear up any confusion which  may still reside within your mind.

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in  righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."( INCLUDING THE BOOK OF MORMON, if you accept it or not!)

Who is the Holy Spirit?  He is God!  He is the Third Person of the Trinity.  The Trinity is God manifested, revealed, in three distinct Persons:  God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

You might view these as God the Father - the Master Architect (setting all Creation in motion, Genesis 1:1) -- Jesus Christ, God  the Son - the Master Builder (through Him all things came into being, John 1:3) -- God the Holy Spirit - the Master Contractor (moving, Genesis 1:2; Eternal Helper, John 14:16). 

 

One God( GODHEAD ) -- three distinct Persons( ALL HOLDING THE " TITLE" OF "GOD", Get it right Bill! ) -- together bringing the offer of eternal salvation to mankind.

So, yes, Crusty -- the Bible, (AND) ALL ( other) SCRIPTURE, is inspired, God inspired -- by the Holy Spirit, given to 40 men ( And the lost ten tribes spoken of in the Bible, that God led away from Jewersalem before He destroied it. ) in diverse geographical locations ( To include the Americas), Bill, if you want to teach truth, I suggest you learn it ALL so you don't misslead the people.), over a period of 1600 years  ( More than that and He continues to give MODERN REVELATION to the world today through His living Prophet, Pres. Monson.)-- and containing one theme -- salvation for all mankind who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive the "free gift" of eternal life in Christ.

My Friend, where do you find confusion? ( People find confusion in the half truths you attempt to teach with your missinformed beliefs of what you think the Bible is saying!)

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

 

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quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
quote:  Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in  righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Who is the Holy Spirit?  He is God!  He is the Third Person of the Trinity.  The Trinity is God manifested, revealed, in three distinct Persons:  God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

One God -- three distinct Persons -- together bringing the offer of eternal salvation to mankind.

So, yes, Crusty -- the Bible, ALL SCRIPTURE, is inspired, God inspired -- by the Holy Spirit, given to 40 men in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- and containing one theme -- salvation for all mankind who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive the "free gift" of eternal life in Christ.

My Friend, where do you find confusion?  God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,  Bill

Sounds like 40 mouthpieces to me.   You do know that the Holy Spirit isn't a ghost, right?

Hi Crusty,

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God. . ." tells me that God is the "a u t hor" of the Bible.  You choose to not believe that -- that is you exercising your God-given gift of "free will."   For that gift, you can thank Him.

 

True, the Holy Spirit is just that -- Spirit, the Spirit of God, not a ghost.  You may call Him whatever your belief system tells you.   I will stay with the Bible and what it tells me -- and I will stay with 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God. . ."

 

Crusty, you trying to argue with God and His Written Word, the Bible, is like -- no, I was going to say a little boy trying to spit into the wind -- but, this is more like a little boy trying to spit into the face of a full blown tornado.  Either way, try it and you lose -- big time!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Dwight,

 

Let me see if I can recap.  The Mormon church has a leader who is named MONSOoN (as in a very big wind) and their sacred text, the Book of Mormon, was brought to them, supposedly, by an angel named MORONi.  Okay!

 

And, by the way, I own a beautiful bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge, which I can sell to you very cheap.  Are you interested?

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dwight,

 

Let me see if I can recap.  The Mormon church  ( The WORLD has a Prophet of God to lead guide and direct them , if they accept him or not and his name is THOMAS S. MONSON.  tHE 12 APOSTLES ARE; 

BOYD K. PACKER,   L. TOM PERRY,   RUSSELL M. NELSON,   DALLIN H. OAKS,   M. RUSSELL BALLARD,   RICHARD G. SCOTT,   ROBERT D. HALES,   JEFFERY R. HOLLAND, DAVID A. BEDNAR,   QUENTIN L COOK,   D. TODD CHRISTOFFERSON   AND   NEIL L ANDERSON.
All called of God through prophecy and revelation and ordained and set apart in their callings by one holding the power and authority of  God, from Jesus Christ, by the laying on of hands.

 





 

And, by the way, I own a beautiful bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge, which I can sell to you very cheap.  Are you interested?

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

 

1)  What I would like to see is where in the scriptures of either the Old Testament or New Testament (or Both) about the future prophecy for the apostles you mentioned? 


2)  Where in the scriptures (OT or NT) does it foretell of Joseph Smith?

 

3)  Where in the Old Testament or New Testament do you have confirming and correlating prophecy to those you say are within the Book of Mormon or where even is the prophecy of a coming Book of Mormon?

 

4)  Also why is it that the Mormon Church supports only the King James Version and rejects all other translations of the Scriptures which were not only taken from many of the same manuscripts that the King James was?

 

5)  Does the Mormon Church teach that God had a beginning/Origin like man or any other created thing?  Was this revealed through the KJV or through the Book of Mormon?

Originally Posted by WoolyBugger:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
All called of God through prophecy and revelation

__________________________

Bill claims that God gave him the gift of writing. Just because someone says it doesn't make it so.

Bill is a fake, just as your living Prophet & living Apostles probably are too.

Originally Posted by gbrk:

1)  What I would like to see is where in the scriptures of either the Old Testament or New Testament (or Both) about the future prophecy for the apostles you mentioned? 


2)  Where in the scriptures (OT or NT) does it foretell of Joseph Smith?

  3:

3)  Where in the Old Testament or New Testament do you have confirming and correlating prophecy to those you say are within the Book of Mormon or where even is the prophecy of a coming Book of Mormon?

 

4)  Also why is it that the Mormon Church supports only the King James Version and rejects all other translations of the Scriptures which were not only taken from many of the same manuscripts that the King James was?

 

5)  Does the Mormon Church teach that God had a beginning/Origin like man or any other created thing?  Was this revealed through the KJV or through the Book of Mormon?

GBRK, there are answers for all the above questions but some will take a long time to relate them. I will answer some but you must do as told in James 1:5-6. The answers that will stay with you are the ones you have to work for and the ones you get from God.

 

  For everything I am about to write, ASK GOD if it is true or lies.

  1.  In the Bible many things are foretold. If you will remember, ( This all is up to you to find in the Bible and pray about!) Jesus brought what is called His Gospel, He set up His organization with Him at the head and then, ( by laying on of hands), ordained His 12 Apostles.

      In ALL dispensations, God had one Prophet that He revealed things to, the prophet was the head. God did nothing unless He revealed it through His chosen mouthpiece.  AMOS 3:7

 

GODS ORGANIZATION ALWAYS HAD A PROPHET AT THE HEAD OF IT!

 

The Lord schooled the Prophet, the Prophet instructed the Apostles and they took the word out to the people.  REMEMBER< GOD IS A GOD OF ORDER.

 

Gods POWER and AUTHORITY was passed down the line the same way by the laying on of hands.

After Christ was murdered Peter was the head of the organization . Peter taught the apostles what God wanted them to teach the people. Peter and the Apostles had Gods power and authority.

      Eventually all the Apostles were killed off which also removed Gods power and authority and Christs organization fell apart, this is known as the great apostasy.

 

       Without the Prophet or Apostiles, men started changing Christs organization and teaching false doctrine, much of which is still believed today.  The Apostacy was fortoled in the following scriptures;

ACTS 20:28-30

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

1 Timothy 4:1-3

2 Timothy 4:3-4

2 Peter 2:1-2        to name a few.

 

At this point the world was going through what was known as the Dark Ages.

  Now , in the Bible Jesus talked about gathering his people toghther one last time before the final comming and destruction of the world. This could never be done without a RESTORATION of His Original origanization with a Prophet to receive revelation from God on how to do so. This meant there must be a restoration of all things as at first with Apostles and all other positions in Jesus organization.

 

Thats enough on that for now.

 

In order for me to answer number two, You need to first pray about what I have thus far said and receive an answer from God if I have lied to you or told you the truth, But it is in the scriptures.

 

To answer number three. Have you read in your bible about the LOST TEN TRIBES?

Do you ever remember Jesus refering to people as SHEEP and nations as FOLDS?

Do you remember Jesus ever saying that SHEEP of another FOLD have I and to them too I must bring?

 

Have you ever heard of the TRIBE of JUDA and the TRIBE of JOSEPH spoken of in the Bible?

When things were written down back then , they were written on a material and wrapped around a stick, this was called SCROLES. PRAY about that one.

 

Now, get your Bible out and read  EZEK.37:15-19   Know we know the stick of Juda is what is known today as the BIBLE.  WHAT AND WHERE IS THE STICK OF JOSEPH???????

 

Number 4.  The best I can figgure for that one is to standardize what Bible all members of our church will use so we are all on the same sheet of music. Otherwise, I dont know.

 

Number 5     This seems to be a reference to the verse in 1 John about Jesus or God being pree existant.

 

Im gonna tell ya now, it may take some time for this answer to sink in BUT, after you read it, dont disreguard it till you pray and ask God if I am lying or if it is true.

 

The Bible refers to this earth, The Bible says Jesus built or created this earth and all that is in it and on it. In order for Jesus to be able to do this He INDEED needed to exist before It was created. SO, as said in 1 John that Jesus was Pre existant, In that context, YES WE BELIEVE AND TEACH THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS PRE EXISTANT!!!     The phraise  " IN THE BEGINING" Is refering to the begining OF THIS EARTHS EXISTANCE.

 

well enough for now,  read what I have written then PONDER IT IN YOUR HEART, then follow JAMES 1:5-6

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by WoolyBugger:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
All called of God through prophecy and revelation

__________________________

Bill claims that God gave him the gift of writing. Just because someone says it doesn't make it so.

Bill is a fake, just as your living Prophet & living Apostles probably are too.


Semi, the ONLY way you will know for sure is to do a scientific experiment and do as James 1:5-6 tell you to do. Dont give up right away untill you receive an answer saying its a lie or I told the truth.  Your right, I can be a fake and a liar and so can they but, I have told you how you can find out for yourself without taking my word or any other HUMANS word!  Dont quit seeking!

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God. . ." tells me that God is the "a u t hor" of the Bible.  You choose to not believe that -- that is you exercising your God-given gift of "free will."   For that gift, you can thank Him.

 

True, the Holy Spirit is just that -- Spirit, the Spirit of God, not a ghost.  You may call Him whatever your belief system tells you.   I will stay with the Bible and what it tells me -- and I will stay with 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God. . ."

 

Crusty, you trying to argue with God and His Written Word, the Bible, is like -- no, I was going to say a little boy trying to spit into the wind -- but, this is more like a little boy trying to spit into the face of a full blown tornado.  Either way, try it and you lose -- big time!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

______________

I'm not arguing with God.  I'm arguing with you.  And that is like using a flame thrower to start my grill.  Your inconsistencies and twisting of reality to fit your distorted interpretation of a book that you worship above all else pretty much does you in. 

One of the best posts I've read in a while:

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I'm not arguing with God.  I'm arguing with you.  And that is like using a flame thrower to start my grill.  Your inconsistencies and twisting of reality to fit your distorted interpretation of a book that you worship above all else pretty much does you in. 

 

To start with gbrk,

It’s hard to add anything to Dwight’s answer to you. But there is one scripture he missed.

John 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

         This scripture is plain and simple. It states Christ speaking of his other sheep that will hear his voice. And that both they and those of the Holy Land will be as one with one shepherd. This one shepherd he speaks of is he, The Lord Jesus Christ. The other sheep are those who live in the American Continents. One must ask himself, would God favor just those who are in the Holy Land. They are an Ocean apart. All other areas can be traversed by the means of the day for missionary efforts. We are all the Father’s children are we not? Why would they (Jesus Christ or His Father) not bless and inspire those who by any means would not have access to the Gospel other than direct revelation?   

          Again why would God have direct revelation through-out all early history thru Prophets yet not afford us those same blessings. The book of Mormon is the equivalent to the Holy Bible but written for and of the peoples of the Americas it also has the earlier scriptures brought with those from the Holy Land such as Isaiah.

    

In gbrk’s questions it is asked,

 

“1) What I would like to see is where in the scriptures of either the Old Testament or New Testament (or Both) about the future prophecy for the apostles you mentioned?”

        Please read thru the Old Testament and tell us where it tells anywhere of the future Apostles? It tells us of the coming of The Fathers Son Jesus Christ but not of his Prophets or Apostles. 

 

2) Where in the scriptures (OT or NT) does it foretell of Joseph Smith?

         Again in the Old or News Testaments it tells nothing of future Prophets.

 

3) Where in the Old Testament or New Testament do you have confirming and correlating prophecy to those you say are within the Book of Mormon or where even is the prophecy of a coming Book of Mormon?

        Before the compiling of all the different books, where did for the most part one book testify of another book that was also compiled into what will be in the future known as the Holy Bible. If the Books written in the Americas were written in the Holy Land it also would have been included in the Holy Bible.

4) Also why is it that the Mormon Church supports only the King James Version and rejects all other translations of the Scriptures which were not only taken from many of the same manuscripts that the King James was?

          The King James Version though meaning the same as many versions, is the most direct and un-altered version from the times of old. Also sometimes even one small word being changed can completely alter the meaning that God intended. The Book of Mormon comes directly from under the ground from the Hill Cummora. Directly from the Ancients and translated by a Prophet of God thru the power of God. 

5) Does the Mormon Church teach that God had a beginning/Origin like man or any other created thing? Was this revealed through the KJV or through the Book of Mormon?

          All things had a beginning. God his Son Jesus Christ, the Universe (that God Created), even the material that have created many other universes and un-seen forces.

And no not anywhere in the Book of Mormon or The Holy Bible does it tell of the Father’s Beginnings. This has been revealed to us but not in detail in other The Doctrine and Covenants another book of God as revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith. Please sometime listen to the Prophet and Apostles in World General Conference and see if anything said is out of line with The Lord Jesus Christ.

Skippy

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Crusty, you trying to argue with God and His Written Word, the Bible, 

Bill

______________

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'm not arguing with God.  I'm arguing with you.  And that is like using a flame thrower to start my grill.  Your inconsistencies and twisting of reality to fit your distorted interpretation of a book that you worship above all else pretty much does you in.

__________________________

 

Originally Posted by WoolyBugger:     I will attempt to put my comments within the text in BLUE TEXT.
Originally Posted by gbrk:

1)  What I would like to see is where in the scriptures of either the Old Testament or New Testament (or Both) about the future prophecy for the apostles you mentioned? 


2)  Where in the scriptures (OT or NT) does it foretell of Joseph Smith?

  3:

3)  Where in the Old Testament or New Testament do you have confirming and correlating prophecy to those you say are within the Book of Mormon or where even is the prophecy of a coming Book of Mormon?

 

4)  Also why is it that the Mormon Church supports only the King James Version and rejects all other translations of the Scriptures which were not only taken from many of the same manuscripts that the King James was?

 

5)  Does the Mormon Church teach that God had a beginning/Origin like man or any other created thing?  Was this revealed through the KJV or through the Book of Mormon?

GBRK, there are answers for all the above questions but some will take a long time to relate them. I will answer some but you must do as told in James 1:5-6. The answers that will stay with you are the ones you have to work for and the ones you get from God.

One thing about using James 1:5&6 is it's context is regarding those in trials and tribulation with instructions for praying for wisdom in understanding why a believer would be going through trials and tribulations.  What James is instructing is those who find themselves in these trials verse 1 tells to whom this passage is to, the twelve tribes (James 1:2-4) instructs them what to do when in trials and that is to seek wisdom.  The instructions of vs 6-8 are not to doubt and waver, account of the difficulties and trials that continue and they are in.  If you re-read the verses along with those prior and after I think you will see this is not about asking for wisdom about the scriptures.


  For everything I am about to write, ASK GOD if it is true or lies.

  1.  In the Bible many things are foretold. If you will remember, ( This all is up to you to find in the Bible and pray about!) Jesus brought what is called His Gospel, He set up His organization with Him at the head and then, ( by laying on of hands), ordained His 12 Apostles.

      In ALL dispensations, God had one Prophet that He revealed things to, the prophet was the head. God did nothing unless He revealed it through His chosen mouthpiece.  AMOS 3:7


 This particular verse (7) in Amos is about the prophet  Amos and for the people to accept him as a Prophet with a specific message from God.(Amos 7:14-15 Amos was an unlikely prophet but was given a mission from God and a message for the people about the coming Judgment where Israel would be wiped out by the Assyrians and Judah would then go into exile in Babylon.  Amos was the prophet chosen by God to deliver this prophecy to the people of Israel). To use this passage to point to any other prophet or message, well I would not be comfortable with it.


GODS ORGANIZATION ALWAYS HAD A PROPHET AT THE HEAD OF IT!

 

The Lord schooled the Prophet, the Prophet instructed the Apostles and they took the word out to the people.  REMEMBER< GOD IS A GOD OF ORDER.

 

Gods POWER and AUTHORITY was passed down the line the same way by the laying on of hands.

After Christ was murdered Peter was the head of the organization . Peter taught the apostles what God wanted them to teach the people. Peter and the Apostles had Gods power and authority.

      Eventually all the Apostles were killed off which also removed Gods power and authority and Christs organization fell apart, this is known as the great apostasy.

 

       Without the Prophet or Apostiles, men started changing Christs organization and teaching false doctrine, much of which is still believed today.  The Apostacy was fortoled in the following scriptures;

ACTS 20:28-30 (Paul instructing the Elders at Ephesus that he was going away and not to return again.  That after he leaves false teachers would swoop in teaching a polluted Gospel to the early church and they were to guard against it.  Some of these false teachers will come from within the Church at Ephesus.  Paul emphasized that he had taught this to the Church for 3 years.  There is nothing in this scripture that points to any other Church or group of people at another time.  To indicate so is to take quite a liberty with Paul's words and instruction.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 ( Here there is instruction with an eye toward the future, actually the END Times.  Paul is saying for those listening to and reading this letter to not become unsettled at word from anyone that Christ had come and Raptured the Church leaving them behind.  Many were very unsettled about this thinking they had been left behind.  Paul in 1 Thes 4 taught the rapture was coming and he was required to instruct them in this letter to clarify when that time would be.  The instruction was that Christ would not return for them and the Church (the Rapture) until after the AntiChrist had been revealed (vs 3) Paul instructs about the abomination that causes desolation in vs 4 of this passage.  In vs 15 Paul encourages them to remember what they had been taught (about the rapture and end times) and be steady and firm in those teachings.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (Timothy was leader over Ephesus and this passage was the fulfillment of the warning of Paul in Acts 20:20&30  Paul is writing about the event he warned about and that is has now happened.  Note the reference from Revelation 2:2 concerning the letter to the Church of Ephesus.  The exact same things will be mirrored in the Last Days preceding Christ Return.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 ( More warnings to believers about those that will come later that will pervert and change the gospel of Christ,  emphasis is to stay on that which was taught from the beginning, by Christ and the apostles as recorded in the Scriptures of the New Testament)

2 Peter 2:1-2        to name a few. (It is interesting that you use this scripture for this one scripture does warn about false prophets that will come after Christ time.  This passage has been applied by many to various "cults" and other people claiming to be Christ or Prophets of Christ such as those with Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Joseph Smith.  The real question then is to verify from the Scriptures that provide Christ teachings and the original apostles letters to the Churches, as to who any future prophets, teachers or witnesses would be, if there would be any then they should be found in Scripture.  There are two that are found and prophesied and they are the two Witnesses found in Revelation 11 )

 

At this point the world was going through what was known as the Dark Ages.

  Now , in the Bible Jesus talked about gathering his people toghther one last time before the final comming and destruction of the world. This could never be done without a RESTORATION of His Original origanization with a Prophet to receive revelation from God on how to do so. This meant there must be a restoration of all things as at first with Apostles and all other positions in Jesus organization.

 ( I can only use your own words above (that I highlighted in bold) regarding Jesus talking about gathering his people together one last time before His 2nd Coming and Armageddon, the End days.  This wording used in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 where it references the gathering together with Christ but the context of this section of scripture clearly shows this to be after the antichrist and at the end days as defined as the 70th week of Daniel.  Christ references this directly in Matthew 24 and the gathering together specifically in Matthew 24:30-31.  Many Christians call this the Rapture and Paul references it also in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.  If this is not the coming together that you are talking about then please share with me the specific scripture KJV or else that references this specific gathering together.)


Thats enough on that for now.

 

In order for me to answer number two, You need to first pray about what I have thus far said and receive an answer from God if I have lied to you or told you the truth, But it is in the scriptures.

 ( I have prayed regarding how to address an answer and I hope I have done so sufficiently.  I rely upon Romans 8:26 & 27 with regards to Prayer and a continual attitude of prayer in addition to the specifically addressing our request to God)


To answer number three. Have you read in your bible about the LOST TEN TRIBES?

Do you ever remember Jesus refering to people as SHEEP and nations as FOLDS?

Do you remember Jesus ever saying that SHEEP of another FOLD have I and to them too I must bring?   (Yes I do, in fact it has to do with John 10:16 I do realize that different people interpret the scriptures different ways.  Along witht adding my personal feelings about John 10:16 let me ask you a question about this.  Christ was speaking to Jewish people at this time.  Would you not concede or accept that Christ could have been talking about the Gentiles as the "other Sheep"?  

If you do take this interpretation then it's also easy to see this from Galatians 3:28 and Romans 11 as well as Romans 10:12, Ephesians 2:11-22 and Ephesians 3:1-13.   Would you not agree that another interpretation of John 10:16 was the Christ was preparing the Jews for acceptance of Gentiles that would be brought into the Body of Christ and not just Jews.  

It's pretty clear that Christ was using a parable with them from verse 6 and He saw that they were not getting it so He restated it by explaining it to them.  Christ IS the gate for the sheep (all the sheep)  and that's clear from vs 7.   

Also John 10:15 can be compared to John 10:30.  Jesus is providing a link between Him and the Father.  This would be a very tough thing for Jewish followers to accept, that Christ was in fact God in Flesh come to Man.  Also tough for the Jews to accept would be that the Gentiles would be added to their flock, grafted in (Romans 11) yet Christ was preparing them for this in vs 16?  Given the scriptures in John 10 along with the Jews and other scriptures to reinforce what the other sheep would mean I can only believe Christ is talking about the Gentiles and teaching the Jews that salvation will be opened upon unto the Gentiles.  

 

Have you ever heard of the TRIBE of JUDA and the TRIBE of JOSEPH spoken of in the Bible?

When things were written down back then , they were written on a material and wrapped around a stick, this was called SCROLES. PRAY about that one.

 

Now, get your Bible out and read  EZEK.37:15-19   Know we know the stick of Juda is what is known today as the BIBLE.  WHAT AND WHERE IS THE STICK OF JOSEPH???????

 (Ezekiel 37:15-28 is prophecying to the Jews that one day they will be joined again, as the two sticks were joined before the people.  Although they didn't understand it then it was and is a reference to the new Jerusalem when the twelve tribes will be reunited and God will once again place His temple in their midst and they will be under ONE KING (Christ Jesus).


Number 4.  The best I can figgure for that one is to standardize what Bible all members of our church will use so we are all on the same sheet of music. Otherwise, I dont know.

 

Number 5     This seems to be a reference to the verse in 1 John about Jesus or God being pree existant.

 

Im gonna tell ya now, it may take some time for this answer to sink in BUT, after you read it, dont disreguard it till you pray and ask God if I am lying or if it is true.

 

The Bible refers to this earth, The Bible says Jesus built or created this earth and all that is in it and on it. In order for Jesus to be able to do this He INDEED needed to exist before It was created. SO, as said in 1 John that Jesus was Pre existant, In that context, YES WE BELIEVE AND TEACH THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS PRE EXISTANT!!!     The phraise  " IN THE BEGINING" Is refering to the begining OF THIS EARTHS EXISTANCE.

 

well enough for now,  read what I have written then PONDER IT IN YOUR HEART, then follow JAMES 1:5-6

Indeed a lot to take in but I have looked at the scriptures you have presented and I have, in blue text, inserted my own personal interpretation as to what I believe the scriptures teach and tried to cross reference those indications.  The one that is not as plain is the sheep of another fold.  Sheep here refer to believers/Christians and of that there isn't much debate or at least I do not believe there is.  When you take the message of Romans 11 and the other scriptures with regard to believers during this period when the text was written and taught I cannot help but believe the sheep of another fold is referring to the Gentile believers which were not up unto that time included with God's people (His Sheep so to say).

Originally Posted by skippy delepepper:

To start with gbrk,

It’s hard to add anything to Dwight’s answer to you. But there is one scripture he missed.

Actually he didn't miss it he did address the topic but failed to include the scripture. I thought responded there, as I have below here.


John 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

         This scripture is plain and simple. It states Christ speaking of his other sheep that will hear his voice. And that both they and those of the Holy Land will be as one with one shepherd. This one shepherd he speaks of is he, The Lord Jesus Christ. The other sheep are those who live in the American Continents. One must ask himself, would God favor just those who are in the Holy Land. They are an Ocean apart. All other areas can be traversed by the means of the day for missionary efforts. We are all the Father’s children are we not? Why would they (Jesus Christ or His Father) not bless and inspire those who by any means would not have access to the Gospel other than direct revelation?   

          Again why would God have direct revelation through-out all early history thru Prophets yet not afford us those same blessings. The book of Mormon is the equivalent to the Holy Bible but written for and of the peoples of the Americas it also has the earlier scriptures brought with those from the Holy Land such as Isaiah.

 

I have repeated that response here also:

I do realize that different people interpret the scriptures different ways.  Along with adding my personal feelings about John 10:16 let me ask you a question about this.  Christ was speaking to Jewish people at this time.  Would you not concede or accept that Christ could have been talking about the Gentiles as the "other Sheep"?  

If you do take this interpretation then it's also easy to see this from Galatians 3:28 and Romans 11 as well as Romans 10:12, Ephesians 2:11-22 and Ephesians 3:1-13.   Would you not agree that another interpretation of John 10:16 was the Christ was preparing the Jews for acceptance of Gentiles that would be brought into the Body of Christ and not just Jews.  

It's pretty clear that Christ was using a parable with them from verse 6 and He saw that they were not getting it so He restated it by explaining it to them.  Christ IS the gate for the sheep (all the sheep)  and that's clear from vs 7.   

Also John 10:15 can be compared to John 10:30.  Jesus is providing a link between Him and the Father.  This would be a very tough thing for Jewish followers to accept, that Christ was in fact God in Flesh come to Man.  Also tough for the Jews to accept would be that the Gentiles would be added to their flock, grafted in (Romans 11) yet Christ was preparing them for this in vs 16?  Given the scriptures in John 10 along with the Jews and other scriptures to reinforce what the other sheep would mean I can only believe Christ is talking about the Gentiles and teaching the Jews that salvation will be opened upon unto the Gentiles. 

 

In gbrk’s questions it is asked,

 

“1) What I would like to see is where in the scriptures of either the Old Testament or New Testament (or Both) about the future prophecy for the apostles you mentioned?”

        Please read thru the Old Testament and tell us where it tells anywhere of the future Apostles? It tells us of the coming of The Fathers Son Jesus Christ but not of his Prophets or Apostles. 

There are many references to prophets in the Old and New Testaments and as you correctly indicated there are many references to Jesus Christ, the coming Messiah.  As for the other part of that statement, here is your answer as I have two answers for you or two examples:

#1 Matthew 3:1-3 (NIV)
{1} In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea
{2} and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."
{3} This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.'"

Compare to

Isaiah 40:3 (NIV)
{3} A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God.

 

#2 is the Prophecy in Revelation 11 of two witnesses that will come in the End times

Revelation 11:3-6 (NIV)
{3} And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."
{4} These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
{5} If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.
{6} These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

 

A third prophecy of a kind for a future coming, other than Christ second coming is the predicted coming of the Antichrist

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NIV)
{3} Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
{4} He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Also 1 Jn 2:18,

 

Daniel 9:27 (NIV)  reference to the Antichrist although the name is not mentioned as such.
{27} He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him".

The above Scripture was referenced by Christ in Matthew 24

Matthew 24:15-21 (NIV)
{15} "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--
{16} then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
{17} Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house.
{18} Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak.
{19} How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!
{20} Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
{21} For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

 Within the Old Testament we have a New Testament prophet in John the Baptist who would precede and show the way to Christ and we have in the New Testament future instructions about the coming 2 Witnesses to expect in Rev 11 as well as prophecy of the coming Antichrist from Old and New Testaments including the words of Christ.  We also have warnings about unnamed False Prophets and although they are not named we are told how to tell if they are false prophets and false teachers and that is that they teach/preach a different gospel then was taught by Christ and His Disciples as recorded in the New Testament scriptures.   So YES I do very much believe there are some prophecies other than Christ that are pointed forward to from the Old Testament to the New and some that are yet to come.

2) Where in the scriptures (OT or NT) does it foretell of Joseph Smith?

         Again in the Old or News Testaments it tells nothing of future Prophets.

 I believe I addressed this adaquatly in the above responsse as to future prophecies about future prophets/witnesses/men, other than Christ Himself.

3) Where in the Old Testament or New Testament do you have confirming and correlating prophecy to those you say are within the Book of Mormon or where even is the prophecy of a coming Book of Mormon?

        Before the compiling of all the different books, where did for the most part one book testify of another book that was also compiled into what will be in the future known as the Holy Bible. If the Books written in the Americas were written in the Holy Land it also would have been included in the Holy Bible.


Every book included in the New Testament has references back to the Old Testament and also parallels information found in other New Testament books.  These were taken from various manuscripts including the dead sea scrolls (for some of the newer translations).  Naturally the dead sea scrolls were a contemporary finding with ties to the Old Testament scriptures and references events as recorded in some New Testament books so there is collaborating references from New Testament to Old and fulfilled prophecies from Old to New as well as some references which elaborate on some old testament prophecies related to the End Days or the Day of the Lord.  My question was due to the fact that in all my readings and studying I never found any reference to any future prophet that would come with another gospel of Christ before or during the end days.  So I was just wanting to see if the LDS taught that there was some section that referenced Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon or any of the locations mentioned in the Book of Mormon or collaborating prophecy that would point toward any of the stories in the Book of Mormon or any of the other accepted Books.

4) Also why is it that the Mormon Church supports only the King James Version and rejects all other translations of the Scriptures which were not only taken from many of the same manuscripts that the King James was?

          The King James Version though meaning the same as many versions, is the most direct and un-altered version from the times of old. Also sometimes even one small word being changed can completely alter the meaning that God intended. The Book of Mormon comes directly from under the ground from the Hill Cummora. Directly from the Ancients and translated by a Prophet of God thru the power of God. 

As for the source of the Book of Mormon I will have to delay any comment as I am not sufficiently informed or studied to answer either way.  As for the "times of old" those would be many manuscripts that were used by any translation committee or group drafting a translation for either King James or any contemporary version.  As times have moved forward in time, from the KJV translation many new archaeological discoveries and manuscripts have come forward that have been considered more accurate to the original language and written word or elaborated upon other manuscripts even including the dead sea scrolls.  Although there hasn't been any great changes in translations or thoughts regarding scriptures with the possible exception of the Book of Mark the language and words used have changed.  Many of the words in vogue during 1611 have changed altered meaning and do not have as clear a meaning to readers today.  
Two types of translations come into play today one which translates and reads according to the thought or contextual meaning and the other direct translation of the word itself.  The most accurate translation to the word for word is said to be the New American Standard.  NIV is one on thought or passage translation and others fall all between.  I do agree that paraphrases are to be excluded from any serious consideration as a translation as they are not, they are mere commentaries, so to say.

5) Does the Mormon Church teach that God had a beginning/Origin like man or any other created thing? Was this revealed through the KJV or through the Book of Mormon?

          All things had a beginning. God his Son Jesus Christ, the Universe (that God Created), even the material that have created many other universes and un-seen forces.

And no not anywhere in the Book of Mormon or The Holy Bible does it tell of the Father’s Beginnings. This has been revealed to us but not in detail in other The Doctrine and Covenants another book of God as revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith. Please sometime listen to the Prophet and Apostles in World General Conference and see if anything said is out of line with The Lord Jesus Christ.

Skippy

Although I can appreciate, at least from your perspective, the authority you give to the LDS modern day "apostles" or "prophets" I hope you can respect that I cannot accept them with the same authority until I can find them specifically addressed in either the Old Testament or New Testament scriptures, including the words of Jesus Christ.

 

As I am sure you realize there is much material printed and documented regarding The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price.  There is also much material researched out and put out to refute much of the information regarding Joseph Smith.  I chose not to copy and paste any of this material as some has been presented before and I'm sure will again.

 

My purpose in my reply was to address specific interpretations I believe are accurate to the Scriptures cited and given.  Where they differ with those you have posted I believe it deserves to be prayed about and considered.  Our faith in our "various Scriptures" or what we accept as Holy writings determines much of what we personally believe.  I'm sure it is no secret that I disagree with some of the interpretations above and where I have I have posted my own belief in what those scriptures say. I welcome corrections if there are any but if there are I prefer that collaborating scriptures and references be provided to back up where you feel I have misinterpreted the particular verse or a statement that it is just based upon the opinion of the person replying.  Respectfully awaiting your replies.

Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Since the very definition of "apostle" is one who had witnessed a risen Christ, how is it that we have apostles today? Do these persons proclaim that they have seen Christ? If not, they are not apostles.

That seems to be your definition but if you didnt watch the broadcast you missed a lot!  Many of the questions asked in this forum were answered! 

quote:    Originally Posted by Dwight WoolyBugger:
quote:   Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Since the very definition of "apostle" is one who had witnessed a risen Christ, how is it that we have apostles today?  Do these persons proclaim that they have seen Christ?  If not, they are not apostles.

That seems to be your definition but if you didnt (sic) watch the broadcast you missed a lot!  Many of the questions asked in this forum were answered! 

Hi Dwight,

 

Firenze is absolutely right.  That is the Biblical definition of an apostle -- one who walked with Jesus Christ in person, during His earthly ministry.  No such man is alive today!

 

In Acts 1:21-23 we find Peter and the other ten remaining apostles speaking of replacing Judas, "'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us -- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us -- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."   So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias."


And, Matthias was chosen.  Later, Jesus Christ replaced Matthias with the apostle Paul -- who met Jesus Christ IN PERSON on the road to Damascus.  

     

Does the Mormon church have ANY apostles who walked with Jesus Christ or personally met Jesus Christ -- DURING His earthly ministry?   No.  Then, the Mormon church has no apostles.  And, is so claiming, prove once again that Mormonism is a cult religion.


God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,


Bill   

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:    Originally Posted by Dwight WoolyBugger:
quote:   Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Since the very definition of "apostle" is one who had witnessed a risen Christ, how is it that we have apostles today?  Do these persons proclaim that they have seen Christ?  If not, they are not apostles.

That seems to be your definition but if you didnt (sic) watch the broadcast you missed a lot!  Many of the questions asked in this forum were answered! 

Hi Dwight,

 

Firenze is absolutely right.  That is the Biblical definition of an apostle -- one who walked with Jesus Christ in person, during His earthly ministry.  No such man is alive today!

 

In Acts 1:21-23 we find Peter and the other ten remaining apostles speaking of replacing Judas, "'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us -- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us -- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."   So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias."


And, Matthias was chosen.  Later, Jesus Christ replaced Matthias with the apostle Paul -- who met Jesus Christ IN PERSON on the road to Damascus.  

     

Does the Mormon church have ANY apostles who walked with Jesus Christ or personally met Jesus Christ -- DURING His earthly ministry?   No.  Then, the Mormon church has no apostles.  And, is so claiming, prove once again that Mormonism is a cult religion.


God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,


Bill   

If they told you that they did , you would probably call them liars. So what you so uptight about?

I know that statement had to be more out of frustration than anything else.  It is one thing to debate the merits of Joseph Smith, the other Books that the LDS accept as Sacred or various teachings but it was a valid point made that there cannot be any modern day apostles based upon Scriptural definition of that title alone.  If you are trying to say that these are men that actually lived during the time of Christ and somehow slipped through history to today then any credibility you have attempted to obtain would be lost.

 

If the LDS church claims these men are living apostles then I would suggest it should give one reason to question why the church would make such a statement.  All Churches are earthly establishments and subject to various errors.  I would be interested in hearing someone with the LDS, you or any other person, explain how they can accept saying that these men are apostles, if in fact that is a valid belief or statement of the Church.  Each and every teaching of every Church should be under question by the believers who attend and belong to those churches.  So just what qualifications do these men possess or have that qualifies them being called "living apostles" by the Church or it's members?

quote:  Originally Posted by Dwight WoolyBugger:
quote:  Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:    Originally Posted by Dwight WoolyBugger:
quote:   Originally Posted by FirenzeVeritas:

Since the very definition of "apostle" is one who had witnessed a risen Christ, how is it that we have apostles today?  Do these persons proclaim that they have seen Christ?  If not, they are not apostles.

That seems to be your definition but if you didnt (sic) watch the broadcast you missed a lot!  Many of the questions asked in this forum were answered! 

Hi Dwight,

 

Firenze is absolutely right.  That is the Biblical definition of an apostle -- one who walked with Jesus Christ in person, during His earthly ministry.  No such man is alive today!

 

In Acts 1:21-23 we find Peter and the other ten remaining apostles speaking of replacing Judas, "'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us -- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us -- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."   So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias."


And, Matthias was chosen.  Later, Jesus Christ replaced Matthias with the apostle Paul -- who met Jesus Christ IN PERSON on the road to Damascus.  

     

Does the Mormon church have ANY apostles who walked with Jesus Christ or personally met Jesus Christ -- DURING His earthly ministry?   No.  Then, the Mormon church has no apostles.  And, is so claiming, prove once again that Mormonism is a cult religion.


God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,  Bill  

If they told you that they did , you would probably call them liars. So what you so uptight about?

Hi Dwight,

 

If they told us they had lived and walked with Jesus Christ (He of John 1:1) during His earthly ministry -- first, we would ALL KNOW they are lying.  And, second, the guys in the white jackets would be coming for them.  Just curious, have you seen any "white jackets" in your neighborhood lately?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Hasn't pat robertson himself, or his followers, declared him a prophet?

No telling what Pat Robertson might say or what Claim he might make, not to be judgmental but I think he's one of those bad apples I was making reference to.

Originally Posted by gbrk:

I don't want to repeat a question ask on another topic but since this topic is about Prophets I'm curious if Warren Jeff's is considered, by the LDS Church, to be a modern day Prophet ( or Apostle )?

Warren Jeffs is not in anyway affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The organization that Jeffs is supposedly Leader/Prophet of is a true Cult. I don’t mean to pull a Bill, but the community that Warren called home before Texas put and end to that, is only 35 miles or so from the town I live in. I live in Hurricane, UT in Southern Utah. These poor people are completely brainwashed into believing they are Gods chosen people. They cannot watch any TV or Listen to any Radio witch I’m sure many do. But the most devote followers of Jeffs do not. Jeffs has recorded videos that he allows them to watch that he’s the star. He (Jeffs) has taken John Denver Songs as well as other artist’s songs like Peter Paul and Mary(The Answer is Blowing in the Wind) and recorded himself as then author and distributing it to his followers. Many there in Hilldale/Colorado City have began to question Jeffs. But some will never believe any different than he is God’s personal messenger. These people are not LDS period.

Skippy

Skippy,

 

I just watched a documentary about Colorado City and Warren Jeffs last night. I could not tell much difference between what Wooly has posted here and what they believed. Although there was one really BIG difference, the multiple wives. One man had 35 children and 7 wives!!! They listened to tapes of Joseph Smiths prophecies and teachings almost constantly. They had the same kind of leadership as Wooly has shown here. With Jeffs being the main leader/prophet. They were saying that they were FLDS the F standing for fundementalist. They believe they are living the true Mormon beliefs set forth by Joseph Smith. I am not saying all of this to argue with you or to say your religion is exactly the same as theirs but honestly Skippy it is not as different as you are saying here.

 

I see it like this.....The difference between Joy's beliefs and Bills beliefs. One is a more modern version and the other is a fundamentalist version. The basics are the same. One just takes it to a fanatical extreme while the other is a bit more relaxed and tolerant.

 

Seems that is the difference between LDS and FLDS.

 

I'm sure you will not agree, but that is my opinion.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dwight,

 

Let me see if I can recap.  The Mormon church has a leader who is named MONSOoN (as in a very big wind) and their sacred text, the Book of Mormon, was brought to them, supposedly, by an angel named MORONi.  Okay!

 

And, by the way, I own a beautiful bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge, which I can sell to you very cheap.  Are you interested?

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill


Wow.  You do realize that we could all make fun of your beliefs too, right?  Some could say the same for the Bible and most of what is in it.  Most just choose not to be nasty about whatever they might disagree with you about, but there are many, many things in the Bible that aren't any more provable than any other belief system.  

 

You could just be polite and thank your "friend" for sharing the information so anyone who was interested could choose to watch.  Would that hurt to just let someone enjoy something without making fun of it or proving him wrong?  

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