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While I know that many of you will stongely disagree with this thread, there are just as many that will agree. It was written during the election, but still holds truth:

Proud To Be Liberal
Why Liberal values are American values
By Brian Elroy McKinley

"You are a contentious person....and probably a Liberal," started a recent response to an article I published on abortion rights.
Contentious? Possibly.
Liberal? Absolutely.

Seems these days Conservatives have convinced themselves, and some of the American public, that being a Liberal is akin to being a card-carrying member of the Communist Party. While this may be a great smear tactic for an election year, to believe such a notion proves that the believer is uneducated in the fundamentals of the American political system. Our nation was founded on Liberalism. Embodied in the Declaration of Independence are its three tenets: "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." The very term, itself, is taken from the same root as the second of these precepts. To be a Liberal is to defend the freedom - the Liberty - of all people who make up our great nation. To be a Liberal is to trust individuals and families to run their own lives as they see fit. To be a Liberal is to create a nation where anyone can excel if they are willing to do the work.

In order to understand the true nature of Liberalism, and to dispel the misconceptions fomented by those whose agenda is counter to our freedom, I will detail the tenets of Liberal thought and dispel the misconceptions so often put forth by Conservative rhetoric.

Liberalism is "Life." It is freedom from physical dangers that can kill or disable us. The Liberal believes it is a nation's job to protect its citizens from physical harm, whether from external sources, such as hostile nations, or internal ones, like crime, disease, or hunger. Without the solid ground of physical wellbeing, our nation and its citizens cannot enjoy the benefits of being free. Liberals believe in a strong military, well suited to defend the nation. Liberals believe in good laws, hard-working police, and a just legal system to protect its citizens from crime. Liberals believe in affordable health care for everyone, to keep our people strong. And Liberals believe in the availability of food and shelter for its needy, not as a hand out but as a reasonable step in moving all Americans toward self-reliance and the freedom that comes with it.

Liberalism is "Liberty." It is the freedom to do as your conscience dictates without impeding another's rights. Fleeing oppression in mother Europe, our founders established a nation where personal belief and self-determination are protected, not persecuted, where hard work is rewarded, not demanded, and where each person is bestowed with the ability to better his or her life because of citizenship, not class. Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression. Liberals believe in sound regulations to protect us from economic oppression. Liberals believe in just laws to protect us from social oppression. And Liberals believe in quality education to protect us from the oppression of ignorance.

Liberalism is "The Pursuit of Happiness." It is the freedom to create an environment where the individual can excel. What is freedom if it cannot be used to better our lives? A truly free society must be one where its members can rise above their limitations and expand their futures. We call it "The American Dream," and it's alive and well in the heart of the Liberal. Liberals believe in equal opportunities for all to rise above our means. Liberals believe in equal opportunities to rise above our education levels. Liberals believe in equal opportunities to rise above our social status. And Liberals believe each and every family should have an equal opportunity to make this world better for their children.

Based on these tenets, we can see that Liberalism is not the monster it's made out to be by the opposition. It is pro individual and pro family. It is pro community and pro country. Liberalism is, by its very definition, the heart and soul of what it means to be an American. It stands against tyranny of any kind, whether international or domestic. It works to remove abuse and fight crime. And it strives to eliminate the idea of a wasted life by not wasting resources and opportunities.

By this time someone might ask, "if that is a Liberal, then what is a Conservative?"

Liberals and Conservatives received their names for good reasons. Just as Liberals get their label by standing for Liberty, Conservatives get their label from the desire to "conserve" a style of living. They, too, claim they are fighting to conserve our personal rights and our economic opportunities, but they do it with a different ideal than the Liberal. The term they use for the difference is "values." Values are norms or codes by which people live their lives. While most Americans share some common values, such as the right to own property and the right to protect our families, we also have many divergent values with which we raise our children. So if we try to impose values into the political framework of the nation, we are forced to ask, "whose values?" And in the search for such absolutes, we must also ask, "which generation's values?"

As the nation ages and new generations take over leadership, the values of its population change. Where once a woman was valued for how well she cooked, cleaned and entertained, today's women are gaining recognition that they offer as much, if not more, to the work force than men. Where once African Americans were forced to live as second-class citizens, now they have a legal status equal to that of whites, even if we still have a ways to go in actual practice. Changing values brings confusing times for many - especially for those who believe that America was better with an older set of values. These people want to "conserve" a style of American living they believe once existed, what they call, "traditional family values." They want to conserve the system that they believe made America wealthy and strong. Unfortunately that also means they want to force all of us to live according to their values.

Conservatives don't really fight for our rights - they fight for what they think our rights should be - putting limits on our freedom of speech in order to "conserve" an older, more traditional norm of what should be said. Conservatives don't really fight for our family values - they fight for what they believe our family values should be - putting limits on our behavior, even behavior between consenting adults, in order to "conserve" an older, more traditional view of acceptable personal activity. Conservatives don't really fight for our income - they fight for little or no regulations - putting limits on our ability to be treated fairly by large companies, who if left without restriction, can form monopolies that choke out competition and drive down wages.

Conservatives are willing to curb our freedom of speech if it clashes with their interpretation of "traditional" values, values from an older time where woman were in domestic servitude to men, where child abuse, sexual abuse, wife abuse, and homosexuality were all kept locked in closets, where minorities were second-class citizens and discrimination was free from incrimination, and where the inability to plan a family's growth meant an explosion of mouths to feed - a population explosion that today threatens to bankrupt our nation's retirement funds. The Conservative position, therefore, is inherently contradictory. You cannot be for legislating away freedom in the name of "family values" and also claim you are protecting individual and family rights.

As new generations have placed their own values into the laws that govern our land, Conservatives have sought to fight back by limiting the size and power of the government. Conservatives are willing to give away the very power needed to protect our liberties in the work place. Their idea of a smaller, less-intrusive government means a return to the days where business decisions and profits were more important than clean air and clean water, where a business could abuse its employees without incrimination, and where minorities and women could be passed over for jobs or paid less then white males for the same jobs. Again the Conservative position is at odds with itself. You cannot claim you are fighting for families at the same time that you allow the family bread winner to be overworked and underpaid and allow neighborhoods to be overrun by non-regulated big business. The Conservative would effectively shift power away from the people, who can elect public officials to fight for their rights, and into the hands of private businesses, who need not answer to the public when making decisions that affect us all.

Because Liberals fight to protect every citizen from having other people's values imposed on them, Conservatives like to label Liberals as being evil. The following list shows what Conservatives like to say against Liberals, and then goes on to show why such assertions are false:

Conservatives say that Liberals are anti-family.
However . . .
Conservatives want to define what your family should be
Whereas . . .
Liberals put you in charge of your family
Liberals support your right to define what your family will be
Liberals fight for your family's rights against economic and political oppression

Conservatives say that Liberals are anti-business.
However . . .
Conservatives are pro-money, but that often translates into monopolies, which hurt small business and competition, which hurts us all
Whereas . . .
Liberals protect small businesses by regulating the larger ones and by breaking up monopolies
Liberals protect workers in order to create a healthy workforce that will help businesses grow

Conservatives say that Liberals are anti-religion.
However . . .
Conservatives are often for one dominant religion, and are, therefore, against others
Whereas . . .
Liberals support complete freedom of religion and from religion so that all citizen are free to choose the manner in which faith is a part of their lives
Liberals strive to keep government completely out of a family's religious choices

Conservatives say that Liberals are anti-freedom.
However . . .
Conservatives want to stop homosexuals, stop abortions, stop the women's movement, and stop freedom of expression through the use of censorship
Whereas . . .
Liberals leave it up to the parents to teach such values to their children
Liberals believe each person or family should be free to choose how to behave as long as it does not interfere with another's rights

Conservatives say that Liberals are anti-morality.
However . . .
Conservatives are for one specific kind of morality
Whereas . . .
Liberals are for the morality of free choice, where each person or family decides their own values
Liberals want the government to protect our freedom to choose what is important to us rather than to impose the laws and codes of another's morality

Conservatives say that Liberals are anti-military.
However . . .
Conservatives see the military as a means to impose their values and standards on others
Whereas . . .
Liberals see the military as a vital protection of our freedoms and our liberties, giving us a space in which to pursue happiness
Liberalism's Stance on Specific Issues

With the desire to promote Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness as the central motivation, the Liberal always defends these tenets when deciding how to stand on a particular issue. The following will show why Liberals often take the stance they do:

Abortion/Contraception - Liberty means the freedom to control your body, your reproductive system, and your future.

Affirmative Action - Liberty means having fair opportunities for those in society who are discriminated against.

Education - Liberty means the freedom to learn in order to build a better future for yourself, your family, your community, and your country.

Environment - Liberty means the fair use of our nation's natural resources for all citizens. Where possible, without unreasonable restriction to private enterprise, the government should strive to protect our natural environment so all can enjoy its bounty.

Gun Control - Liberty means the freedom to protect yourself, your family, and your property, with deadly force if necessary. People have a right to keep guns for such a purpose. People also have a right to use guns in sporting activities and in the event that citizens should be called on to form a citizen militia. We do not, however, have a right to own all the latest people-killing technology. The People, through the government, can restrict some of the more deadly weapons being sold today.

Health - Liberty means the freedom to overcome physical limitations in order to better yourself, your family, your community, and your country.

Regulations - Liberty means the freedom to live and work in an environment that best allows individuals and families to grow in the pursuit of happiness. Bad air, bad water, bad living and working conditions only stifle that liberty.

Sexuality - Liberty means the freedom to share mutual intimate affection with the person of your choice, regardless of gender.

Substance Abuse - Liberty means the freedom to decide what you put in your body. Unless the use of a substance is a danger to unwilling victims, its use should be kept legal. In situations where use of a substance may or may not effect bystanders, regulations - such as in the case with tobacco - should be enacted to protect the bystander without denying the individual's choice to use the substance. Smoking and non-smoking areas in public places are a prime example of this.

Taxation - Liberty is found within a system. That system does not happen by itself. It is created and supported by us, the People, and it is funded by our labors. The money we pay in taxes is what allows us to thrive in Liberty and work in fairness. Reasonable taxation is necessary because without it, many of us would find it difficult to get paid even a fraction of what we are paid now. And those who benefit more from the system should expect to pay more to help support it.

Women's/Minority Rights - Liberty means the freedom to be valued and judged on talent and work, not on the physical characteristics over which we have no control.

In closing let me state that freedom sometimes brings situations we don't like. Some people will choose to use their freedom to engage in activities that go against our personal values. It is a great temptation to use our democratic rights to try and enshrine our own personal values - whether they come from religious or humanistic origins - in the laws of the nation. The inherent problem with this is that when Liberty is restrained by any one group's values, even if that group represents the majority of the population at the time, it can easily be changed from one generation to the next, meaning that you could be forced to live under someone else's values as easily as you might force someone to live under yours.

The only true defense of our values is the defense of our liberties.

If you don't want to be forced to live under a foreign set of values, don't force others to live under yours. Instead, fight for the freedom to believe as you want while others believe as they want. Freedom of choice, as long as it does not infringe on another's rights, is the foundation upon which this nation was built. Liberalism is the ideology that strives to defend that freedom for everyone. And for that reason it pleases me to no end to state that I am proud to be Liberal.
Original Post

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That is the crux of the argument dolemite. To the liberal, anyone who makes a dollar more than they should feel like it is their "responsibility" to give more. They NEVER see adequate taxation, because to them there is always someone who owes something to someone else. The truth is that they really want a "redistribution of wealth"...it has come from the mouth of Obama himself, and half of his cabinet, yet the media refuses to focus on this. The real issues will come when those who are making $100K a year find their taxes skyrocketing, and realize that the little "lie" about those only making $250K a year being taxed is just that, an outright lie. Of course, they can always go back and blame GW, or Reagan, but never the annointed one....gimme a break. This post makes about as much sense as the Communist Manifesto. If it makes you feel better about yourself, so be it, but for the most part it is an outright lie.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
That is the crux of the argument dolemite. To the liberal, anyone who makes a dollar more than they should feel like it is their "responsibility" to give more. They NEVER see adequate taxation, because to them there is always someone who owes something to someone else. The truth is that they really want a "redistribution of wealth"...it has come from the mouth of Obama himself, and half of his cabinet, yet the media refuses to focus on this. The real issues will come when those who are making $100K a year find their taxes skyrocketing, and realize that the little "lie" about those only making $250K a year being taxed is just that, an outright lie. Of course, they can always go back and blame GW, or Reagan, but never the annointed one....gimme a break. This post makes about as much sense as the Communist Manifesto. If it makes you feel better about yourself, so be it, but for the most part it is an outright lie.


We already have a progressive tax system. The only problem with is is that the wealthy cheat the system.
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
[QUOTE]Reasonable taxation is necessary because without it, many of us would find it difficult to get paid even a fraction of what we are paid now. And those who benefit more from the system should expect to pay more to help support it.


I think this is the funniest thing I have read in a while. How does someone like me, a tax payer, benefit from the "system" more than someone who pays no taxes, receives food stamps, medicaid, and other welfare assistance for the entirety of their existance? Please answer that question as truthful as you can.
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
That is the crux of the argument dolemite. To the liberal, anyone who makes a dollar more than they should feel like it is their "responsibility" to give more. They NEVER see adequate taxation, because to them there is always someone who owes something to someone else. The truth is that they really want a "redistribution of wealth"...it has come from the mouth of Obama himself, and half of his cabinet, yet the media refuses to focus on this. The real issues will come when those who are making $100K a year find their taxes skyrocketing, and realize that the little "lie" about those only making $250K a year being taxed is just that, an outright lie. Of course, they can always go back and blame GW, or Reagan, but never the annointed one....gimme a break. This post makes about as much sense as the Communist Manifesto. If it makes you feel better about yourself, so be it, but for the most part it is an outright lie.


We already have a progressive tax system. The only problem with is is that the wealthy cheat the system.


Some wealthy do cheat the system and so do the poor. There are abuses at every level of the income spectrum. The way to fix it is not to tax those who play by the rules more, but to punish those who abuse the system.
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
That is the crux of the argument dolemite. To the liberal, anyone who makes a dollar more than they should feel like it is their "responsibility" to give more. They NEVER see adequate taxation, because to them there is always someone who owes something to someone else. The truth is that they really want a "redistribution of wealth"...it has come from the mouth of Obama himself, and half of his cabinet, yet the media refuses to focus on this. The real issues will come when those who are making $100K a year find their taxes skyrocketing, and realize that the little "lie" about those only making $250K a year being taxed is just that, an outright lie. Of course, they can always go back and blame GW, or Reagan, but never the annointed one....gimme a break. This post makes about as much sense as the Communist Manifesto. If it makes you feel better about yourself, so be it, but for the most part it is an outright lie.


We already have a progressive tax system. The only problem with is is that the wealthy cheat the system.


Some wealthy do cheat the system and so do the poor. There are abuses at every level of the income spectrum. The way to fix it is not to tax those who play by the rules more, but to punish those who abuse the system.


I can go for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker


Who said ANYTHING about abolishing any Talk Radio. If you don't like it, there is an option, its call "OFF". Why do you think its your prerogative to tell Liberals what they want? We can speak for ourselves.
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
That is the crux of the argument dolemite. To the liberal, anyone who makes a dollar more than they should feel like it is their "responsibility" to give more. They NEVER see adequate taxation, because to them there is always someone who owes something to someone else. The truth is that they really want a "redistribution of wealth"...it has come from the mouth of Obama himself, and half of his cabinet, yet the media refuses to focus on this. The real issues will come when those who are making $100K a year find their taxes skyrocketing, and realize that the little "lie" about those only making $250K a year being taxed is just that, an outright lie. Of course, they can always go back and blame GW, or Reagan, but never the annointed one....gimme a break. This post makes about as much sense as the Communist Manifesto. If it makes you feel better about yourself, so be it, but for the most part it is an outright lie.


We already have a progressive tax system. The only problem with is is that the wealthy cheat the system.


Some wealthy do cheat the system and so do the poor. There are abuses at every level of the income spectrum. The way to fix it is not to tax those who play by the rules more, but to punish those who abuse the system.


Most wealthy cheat the system with by reducing their tax base with deductions nobody else is entitled to take and juggeling their assets.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker


Sorry sass, but I don't listen to conservative talk radio. As far as having the gall and audacity to post any of this...well, I have the RIGHT to do so. Quite a few of you have already proven some of the points as far as what the conservatives think of liberals...if they don't like it, they call us liars. If we don't comform to their way of thinking, then we're wrong. Like the author said, conservatives don't fight for our rights, they fight for what they think our rights should be. The wealthy have always owned our system...and they continue to get away with it. ANYONE who abuses the system should be punished
quote:
Originally posted by have_at_it:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker


Sorry sass, but I don't listen to conservative talk radio. As far as having the gall and audacity to post any of this...well, I have the RIGHT to do so. Quite a few of you have already proven some of the points as far as what the conservatives think of liberals...if they don't like it, they call us liars. If we don't comform to their way of thinking, then we're wrong. Like the author said, conservatives don't fight for our rights, they fight for what they think our rights should be. The wealthy have always owned our system...and they continue to get away with it. ANYONE who abuses the system should be punished


O Sas done woke up with her drawers in a wad again. Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by have_at_it:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker


Sorry sass, but I don't listen to conservative talk radio. As far as having the gall and audacity to post any of this...well, I have the RIGHT to do so. Quite a few of you have already proven some of the points as far as what the conservatives think of liberals...if they don't like it, they call us liars. If we don't comform to their way of thinking, then we're wrong. Like the author said, conservatives don't fight for our rights, they fight for what they think our rights should be. The wealthy have always owned our system...and they continue to get away with it. ANYONE who abuses the system should be punished


O Sas done woke up with her drawers in a wad again. Big Grin


Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
quote:
Originally posted by dolemitejb:
[QUOTE]Reasonable taxation is necessary because without it, many of us would find it difficult to get paid even a fraction of what we are paid now. And those who benefit more from the system should expect to pay more to help support it.


I think this is the funniest thing I have read in a while. How does someone like me, a tax payer, benefit from the "system" more than someone who pays no taxes, receives food stamps, medicaid, and other welfare assistance for the entirety of their existance? Please answer that question as truthful as you can.


I agree that the welfare system is abused and mismanaged. Clinton began welfare reform but Bush dropped that ball.

But, in the simplest terms, everytime a jar of peanut butter is purchased the CEO of the peanut butter company makes a profit. The more profit the peanut butter company makes the more they can expand. That means more jobs and betrer pay to everyone employed with the peanut butter company and all its suppliers. The more people that are working and the more money they are making, the more they can afford to splurge on peanut butter. Now throw in the peanut butter sales from military personel, defense contractors, government contracted construction workers, federal employees, postal workers, etc... Without these tax funded workers the peanut butter CEO wouldn't make even a percentage of the profits he/she makes. There wouldn't be even a fraction of the demand for peanut butter and there would be far fewer jobs and lower wages. We all benefit.
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:

Most wealthy cheat the system with by reducing their tax base with deductions nobody else is entitled to take and juggeling their assets.


The real wealthy OWN the system!


That does appear to be the problem, doesn't it. I guess they benefit a lot more than any of us suspect.
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker


Who said ANYTHING about abolishing any Talk Radio. If you don't like it, there is an option, its call "OFF". Why do you think its your prerogative to tell Liberals what they want? We can speak for ourselves.


Yes, you can! And, as proved on Air American, when you do, then people do use either the OFF button or the tuner!
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:

Most wealthy cheat the system with by reducing their tax base with deductions nobody else is entitled to take and juggeling their assets.


The real wealthy OWN the system!


And it seems as though it has been handed to them on a silver platter. Wink


There is such a churning of the American economic classes, that within a generation, people rise and fall according to their merits, except for a few families. The European system is gamed to insure the old families keep their wealth for generations.
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:

Most wealthy cheat the system with by reducing their tax base with deductions nobody else is entitled to take and juggeling their assets.


The real wealthy OWN the system!


And it seems as though it has been handed to them on a silver platter. Wink


They owned the platter to begin with.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor1:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:

Most wealthy cheat the system with by reducing their tax base with deductions nobody else is entitled to take and juggeling their assets.


The real wealthy OWN the system!


And it seems as though it has been handed to them on a silver platter. Wink


There is such a churning of the American economic classes, that within a generation, people rise and fall according to their merits, except for a few families. The European system is gamed to insure the old families keep their wealth for generations.


OMG! You don't think we're still the European system? Where did we come from? Are you saying our system isn't gamed? Even after the looting of the people under the guise of "bailout"?

PUHLEEZE!
quote:
Originally posted by True-Blue:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Quite a few lies in that little diatribe. Some of the best lies are in the little rants about religion(libs want religion out of government, not government out of religion), gun control (libs want to decide what guns you cannot have because they don't trust an armed society...the militia needs no "call", it is a standing unit, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution), and morality (morality is defined as the values and standards imposed by a society...an individual cannot declare their "own morality").

quote:
Liberals believe in freedom of speech to protect us from political oppression.

I can't believe you had the gall and audacity to post this part...what with all the ranting and raving about Conservative Talk Radio and how it should be abolished. Eeker


Who said ANYTHING about abolishing any Talk Radio. If you don't like it, there is an option, its call "OFF". Why do you think its your prerogative to tell Liberals what they want? We can speak for ourselves.


You've conveniently ignored the howls from the left for the reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine, as an attempt to shut down conservative talk radio.
Why does one have to label themselves as "liberal" or "conservative"? I don't really understand the concept of claiming to be proud of either one as if it's a football team, an us vs them situation.

Why not just look at each issue independently, weigh both sides, and decide for yourself what you believe is the correct approach? It requires a lot of reading, listening, and thinking, as opposed to just stamping yourself with a label, but in the end you'll be much more informed.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
Why does one have to label themselves as "liberal" or "conservative"? I don't really understand the concept of claiming to be proud of either one as if it's a football team, an us vs them situation.

Why not just look at each issue independently, weigh both sides, and decide for yourself what you believe is the correct approach? It requires a lot of reading, listening, and thinking, as opposed to just stamping yourself with a label, but in the end you'll be much more informed.


Because that would require logic and common sense. And we all know that's no fun. Wink
quote:
They owned the platter to begin with.


Typical liberal class envy. The majority of the "platter owners" started from scratch and worked their way up through sweat, long hours, and brains. They pay 90 per cent of the taxes in this country while a majority of the poor pay none. Then a couch potato like you wants to tear them down to your level in order to make things "fair." You want to own a platter? Get your butt out and go earn it!
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
Why does one have to label themselves as "liberal" or "conservative"? I don't really understand the concept of claiming to be proud of either one as if it's a football team, an us vs them situation.

Why not just look at each issue independently, weigh both sides, and decide for yourself what you believe is the correct approach? It requires a lot of reading, listening, and thinking, as opposed to just stamping yourself with a label, but in the end you'll be much more informed.


I weighed both sides...a long time ago...this just happens to be more of what I believe. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by KissedGrits:
quote:
They owned the platter to begin with.


Typical liberal class envy. The majority of the "platter owners" started from scratch and worked their way up through sweat, long hours, and brains. They pay 90 per cent of the taxes in this country while a majority of the poor pay none. Then a couch potato like you wants to tear them down to your level in order to make things "fair." You want to own a platter? Get your butt out and go earn it!


You couldn't be more wrong. Not only do you not know what you're talking about, you don't know what I'm talking about.

None of us here on this forum owns any part of the "platter". And I have no interest in the platter whatsoever! I've got all the platter I need thank you very much!
quote:
Originally posted by KissedGrits:
quote:
They owned the platter to begin with.


Typical liberal class envy. The majority of the "platter owners" started from scratch and worked their way up through sweat, long hours, and brains. They pay 90 per cent of the taxes in this country while a majority of the poor pay none. Then a couch potato like you wants to tear them down to your level in order to make things "fair." You want to own a platter? Get your butt out and go earn it!


Grits...believe me when I say this, I envy no one. I owned a business and now I work part-time. My family has always worked hard as do most of my friends and their families. What makes you think that because they're liberal that they don't work? That they are so called "couch potatoes"? That's absurd within itself. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by have_at_it:
quote:
Originally posted by KissedGrits:
quote:
They owned the platter to begin with.


Typical liberal class envy. The majority of the "platter owners" started from scratch and worked their way up through sweat, long hours, and brains. They pay 90 per cent of the taxes in this country while a majority of the poor pay none. Then a couch potato like you wants to tear them down to your level in order to make things "fair." You want to own a platter? Get your butt out and go earn it!


Grits...believe me when I say this, I envy no one. I owned a business and now I work part-time. My family has always worked hard as do most of my friends and their families. What makes you think that because they're liberal that they don't work? That they are so called "couch potatoes"? That's absurd within itself. Roll Eyes


I believe it's because her grits have been kissed. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by diddle:
quote:
Originally posted by have_at_it:
quote:
Originally posted by KissedGrits:
quote:
They owned the platter to begin with.


Typical liberal class envy. The majority of the "platter owners" started from scratch and worked their way up through sweat, long hours, and brains. They pay 90 per cent of the taxes in this country while a majority of the poor pay none. Then a couch potato like you wants to tear them down to your level in order to make things "fair." You want to own a platter? Get your butt out and go earn it!


Grits...believe me when I say this, I envy no one. I owned a business and now I work part-time. My family has always worked hard as do most of my friends and their families. What makes you think that because they're liberal that they don't work? That they are so called "couch potatoes"? That's absurd within itself. Roll Eyes


I believe it's because her grits have been kissed. Wink

I believe you're right Wink
quote:
Grits...believe me when I say this, I envy no one. I owned a business and now I work part-time. My family has always worked hard as do most of my friends and their families. What makes you think that because they're liberal that they don't work? That they are so called "couch potatoes"? That's absurd within itself.


Then why are the proud liberals on these forums always whining about the rich and how the rich enjoy keeping the poor working man in his place? It's so hackneyed. Sounds like envy to me. Remember: there is always going to be someone richer than you and poorer than you no matter what kind of economic system. Liberalism preaches forced redistribution of wealth that others have earned to others that haven't. As a businessman, you should resent that.
quote:
Originally posted by KissedGrits:
quote:
Grits...believe me when I say this, I envy no one. I owned a business and now I work part-time. My family has always worked hard as do most of my friends and their families. What makes you think that because they're liberal that they don't work? That they are so called "couch potatoes"? That's absurd within itself.


Then why are the proud liberals on these forums always whining about the rich and how the rich enjoy keeping the poor working man in his place? It's so hackneyed. Sounds like envy to me. Remember: there is always going to be someone richer than you and poorer than you no matter what kind of economic system. Liberalism preaches forced redistribution of wealth that others have earned to others that haven't. As a businessman, you should resent that.


Again, you are clueless to the situation. Maybe you should get off the couch and do some research of your own. So called liberals like me want no part of your hard earned money. It is absolutely of no interest to me! We generally want something else. Something "real".
quote:
Again, you are clueless to the situation. Maybe you should get off the couch and do some research of your own. So called liberals like me want no part of your hard earned money. It is absolutely of no interest to me! We generally want something else. Something "real".


Dude, if you want something real, stop deluding yourself. John Lennon, in spite of your "IMAGINE NATION" was a die hard capitalist. Leave your fantasy world, man, and join the rest of us here in reality.
quote:
Originally posted by KissedGrits:
quote:
Again, you are clueless to the situation. Maybe you should get off the couch and do some research of your own. So called liberals like me want no part of your hard earned money. It is absolutely of no interest to me! We generally want something else. Something "real".


Dude, if you want something real, stop deluding yourself. John Lennon, in spite of your "IMAGINE NATION" was a die hard capitalist, Leave your fantasy world, man, and join the rest of us here in reality.


LOL! Smiler

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