Question for atheists

Generally, no.

Not the belief in a god but the tendrils it has in everything. Christians need to keep it to themselves and leave others alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Not the belief in a god but the tendrils it has in everything. Christians need to keep it to themselves and leave others alone.

What does that mean? Once again, that is blown out of proportion. How do you see that Christians have their "tendrils" in everything? That sounds like paranoia of the libs Jenn, and I know you aren't that, so how are you seeing this? From TV? no... from the radio? no... from books? maybe because the Bible is a best seller, but I don't see anyone being forced at gunpoint to buy it. Because of churches being built? Once again, there are several, but would you rather, what, strip joints, bars, or casinos be built? And whatever building is built, if you see someone being forced to enter by threat of death, then report it to the authorities.

Please inform me, where is the overwhelming influence of Christianty that is causing such distress.

Not me.

I DO agree with Jennifer, though.

I can't go anywhere around here without some zombie trying to bless me or get me to come to their dang church.

It's gettin' kinda like "Children Of The Corn" fa cryin' out loud.

I can't speak for other non-theists but I am not trying to eradicate the belief in any of the gods, or Santa Claus, or the Easter bunny or any other mythical being. It does me no harm if hold superstitions as long as they do it in private.
@Peter Rielly; If Christians really wanted to serve Jesus, no churches would have been built. Jesus would be outraged at how man turned his mostly good teachings into a business. Make no mistake, churches ARE a business and they should also pay business taxes. But back to the point of the thread, I say no, I could care less if people choose to believe in any of the gods.

I do too Pup. The reason I asked this was because almost every Christian that posts on here seems to think that WE are out to destroy their way of life. I think most of us really care less what anybody believes. I try to treat folks with respect as long as they will let me, but, I don't recieve the same courtesy. If they are happy in their beliefs, I,m happy for them. I guess that is a real "unchristian" way to think huh?

quote:

Originally posted by Road Puppy:
Not me.

I DO agree with Jennifer, though.

I can't go anywhere around here without some zombie trying to bless me or get me to come to their dang church.

It's gettin' kinda like "Children Of The Corn" fa cryin' out loud.

And if any of those zombies try to eat your brain, please contact the authorities!!! However, until they do try to eat your brains and are only asking you a question, you absolutely have the right to say, "no thanks, I'm not interested", and move on with your day.

@netracer41
I've actually made that point myself. A building does not hold God, man's hands can't create a dwelling place for God, and for man to think that way is foolish. And yes, some churches are shady, no doubt. However, if a group in a community want a place where they can get together and worship and put up the funds for it, there is nothing wrong with that by any standard. It's a God given right to do so, and that, along with many other rights endowed by our Creator, are protected by The Declaration of Independence.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
However, until they do try to eat your brains and are only asking you a question, you absolutely have the right to say, "no thanks, I'm not interested", and move on with your day.

We live in a world where people take talking donkeys and talking snakes seriously enough to end perfectly good marriages and close family relationships, fire people, or refuse to do business with others. It isn't that simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

Please inform me, where is the overwhelming influence of Christianty that is causing such distress.

I'll do it.

Rev 14:8-11 And another, a second messenger, follows, saying, "It falls! It falls! Babylon the great has made all nations drink of the wine of the fury of her prostitution!" And another, a third messenger, follows them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone is worshiping the wild beast and its image, and is getting an emblem on his forehead or on his hand,he, also, is drinking of the wine of the fury of God, blended undiluted in the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented in fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy messengers and in the sight of the Lambkin." And the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons. And they are having no rest day and night, those worshiping the wild beast and its image, and if anyone is getting the emblem of its name."

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

yes, of course i am trying to change minds. that is the whole point in the debates that all of us participate in. to say we (atheists and believers) are not trying to change someone's mind seems just a bit disingenuous.

i would like nothing more than for people to suddenly have the light of reason in their lives. to think for themselves. to embrace doubt, to be more skeptical. to understand the damage that religion inflicts upon society.

the entire point of "atheism" is to deny that gods exist. if there is one thing all atheists have in common is that belief in gods, santa, easter bunny are all silly--to be looked down upon. of COURSE we want to change minds.

i would be absolutely thrilled if it became taboo to discuss religious beliefs or to admit to "talking to gods" when forming an opinion or enforcing a law. that will not happen until believers understand that there are enough of us out there calling BS on them. but that has happened in great Brittan. it can happen here. but only if we change some minds.

all that said, i do't care what goes on inside your heads with respect to the existence of gods. the atheist mantra ought to be "i don't care what you think about gods. just don't let it affect me."

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:
yes, of course i am trying to change minds. that is the whole point in the debates that all of us participate in. to say we (atheists and believers) are not trying to change someone's mind seems just a bit disingenuous.

i would like nothing more than for people to suddenly have the light of reason in their lives. to think for themselves. to embrace doubt, to be more skeptical. to understand the damage that religion inflicts upon society.

the entire point of "atheism" is to deny that gods exist. if there is one thing all atheists have in common is that belief in gods, santa, easter bunny are all silly--to be looked down upon. of COURSE we want to change minds.

i would be absolutely thrilled if it became taboo to discuss religious beliefs or to admit to "talking to gods" when forming an opinion or enforcing a law. that will not happen until believers understand that there are enough of us out there calling BS on them. but that has happened in great Brittan. it can happen here. but only if we change some minds.

all that said, i do't care what goes on inside your heads with respect to the existence of gods. the atheist mantra ought to be "i don't care what you think about gods. just don't let it affect me."

Excellent words.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
And if any of those zombies try to eat your brain, please contact the authorities!!! However, until they do try to eat your brains and are only asking you a question, you absolutely have the right to say, "no thanks, I'm not interested", and move on with your day.

the zombies ARE trying to eat our brains. our intellect. the zombies want to insert their dogma into science classrooms. they want inside a woman's uterus. they want the foreskins of newborn babies. they want to remove the ****oris of all females. they want to force women back into their rightful place of submission to men. they want to tell me what to drink on sundays. they want people like peter to continue to plug their ears against an understanding of reality. they want us to continue to deny rational observations concerning our place in the universe.

and on and on. religion and belief in supernatural invisible beings assert themselves into all areas of society.

the zombies have eaten humanity's brains for thousands of years.

Uno... you are being quite the drama queen with that last post... LMAO!!!

Seriously guys, if anyone from any religion or spiritual backgroud, forces you by threat of death to do anything..please, CONTACT THE AUTHORITIES!!! Oherwise, just say "leave me alone" and move on. I've done it... I've had folks knock on my door and I say, "I don't have time for this, but thanks and have a great day."... and you know what NEVER ONCE HAVE THEY PULLED A GUN ON ME AND FORCED ME TO SIT AND LISTEN... NEVER!!! LOL!!

Quit being a little drama queen about it and just ignore them.

As for your other post about trying to change folks mind, and that is the point of debating. Not really... the point of debating is to win the debate. That's it. I hade many formal debates in college, and my side always won. But it wasn't by changing anyone's mind, it was by sticking to my arguement and knowing the other side's arguement enough to weaken it.

One of the most lively debates I was ever in was on abortion. I waxed the competition in it and "won" the debate. Many of the students who said I won the debate were folks who were on the other team arguing against me, and folks watching who told me straight up that they still believed abortion should be legal, but that I dominated the debate.

so yeah, changing minds is a part of it, but just winning is more important.

Peter,

When did you loose the great debating skills you say you had?

I have not seen any evidence of this on the forum.

I guess its true what they say, use it or loose it.

Sticking a lot of LOL's into your post does not win the debate. Changing your stance back and forth so that you can pretend that your points were never met by an opposing point, does not win a debate. Dismissing facts and data as meaningless (to you) does not win a debate. Throwing out a bunch of non-sense questions and then saying "see you can't answer my questions" is not winning a debate. What college did you go to? Was it a community or online kind of place?

quote:

Oherwise, just say "leave me alone"

You shouldn't have to tell someone to "leave me alone". IF I want a discussion on religion I will ask for it. I don't run around trying to talk to christians about atheism so they should show me the same respect. Usually any christian that starts up about it won't take "leave me alone" as an answer. Telling them that you don't believe and don't care to hear about it is like throwing gasoline on a fire. They just get more worked up.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
Peter,

When did you loose the great debating skills you say you had?

I have not seen any evidence of this on the forum.

I guess its true what they say, use it or loose it.

Sticking a lot of LOL's into your post does not win the debate. Changing your stance back and forth so that you can pretend that your points were never met by an opposing point, does not win a debate. Dismissing facts and data as meaningless (to you) does not win a debate. Throwing out a bunch of non-sense questions and then saying "see you can't answer my questions" is not winning a debate. What college did you go to? Was it a community or online kind of place?

I've never changed my stance on anything. And data that doesn't prove anything is meaningless. What would you say if I gave you all the data of illegals committing crimes in America? Is that all the Christians' fault?? lol

my point stays the same, it doesn't matter what you believe, personal responsibility trumps any religion you claim. You have stated you studied the Bible, but you must have missed that strong point made through out it. Biblical principles are based off of that. Don't blame others for your mistakes and don't sit around with your hand out thinking you deserve anything from anyone without earning it. At one time, a majority of folks in this country believed those principles as well. Now it seems we have gone quite the opposite direction. Do you think we are better as a country now that we are a scapegoat society?

And actually, throwing out questions the other side can't answer is one of the strongest debating tactics there is. ESPECIALLY when it is a question about their own stance. It weakens the point.

I don't debate with atheists from an angle of "I'm going to convince you there is a God", I debate from the angle of "you have no more tangible evidence of the origin of the earth and universe than I do". I don't call atheists stupid, but most atheists call Christians stupid. The foundation for that is usually faith. Unless you were there, or at least have photographic evidence of the origin, you got faith just like I do...just not in the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:
What college did you go to? Was it a community or online kind of place?

homeschool would be my guess. his mommy was the judge.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:


I've never changed my stance on anything. And data that doesn't prove anything is meaningless. What would you say if I gave you all the data of illegals committing crimes in America? Is that all the Christians' fault?? lol

Oh really? In another thread you started out saying that Christianity was not religion. Then later said you never said that and yes christianity could be defined as religion. You then said that society was evolving, then you said it was devolving. Hmmm sounds like changing your stance to me.

Why would I blame the christians for crimes committed by illegal aliens? Once again throwing out none sense... my point is made there too.

quote:

my point stays the same, it doesn't matter what you believe, personal responsibility trumps any religion you claim.

I don't claim a religion. I never said personal responsibility is not important. Matter of fact as an atheist that is exactly what I do. I don't expect a god to help me, or think that satan has any influence over me or this world. Once again what is your point?

quote:

You have stated you studied the Bible, but you must have missed that strong point made through out it. Biblical principles are based off of that.

What strong point? Based off what? Making no sense here Peter. Try to finish one thought at a time.

quote:

Don't blame others for your mistakes and don't sit around with your hand out thinking you deserve anything from anyone without earning it.

Huh? I have never blamed anyone for the mistakes that I have made. I have never ask for a hand out. I have worked hard for what I have today. So I say once again...what is your point and what are you talking about? Oh yeah you are really debating some issues now..

quote:

At one time, a majority of folks in this country believed those principles as well. Now it seems we have gone quite the opposite direction. Do you think we are better as a country now that we are a scapegoat society?

Scapegoat as in "we don't have the answers so god must have done it?" No we are not a better society for thinking like that. Until we stop sticking god in the place of unanswered questions we will get no where. When you do that all new discoveries end. I am for moving forward and finding new answers. Not for ending all quest with a "god did it"

quote:

And actually, throwing out questions the other side can't answer is one of the strongest debating tactics there is. ESPECIALLY when it is a question about their own stance. It weakens the point.

You are right. However that is not what you do. You throw out questions that either have nothing to do with the debate or that make no sense. That is not debating that is just being ignorant.

quote:

I don't debate with atheists from an angle of "I'm going to convince you there is a God", I debate from the angle of "you have no more tangible evidence of the origin of the earth and universe than I do".

Well right there you would be wrong. You have a book written by bronze age men, that claim such scientific jewels as the earth is flat. Yet you choose to believe this ancient, completely unverifiable book as the truth. Where as I and many others choose to go with more advanced and true scientific facts. While also admitting that everything we know at this point can change tomorrow. We don't put faith in anything. We wait for evidence. You stick god into the unknown and call it a day.

quote:

I don't call atheists stupid, but most atheists call Christians stupid. The foundation for that is usually faith. Unless you were there, or at least have photographic evidence of the origin, you got faith just like I do...just not in the same thing.

Stupid is as stupid does. What you continue to fail at is the understanding that just because we don't have photographic evidence (which is a stupid concept in itself) that we believe we know the answers. We don't. Neither do you. The difference is that you say you do.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
"you have no more tangible evidence of the origin of the earth and universe than I do".

and when you are provided with said evidence (the concrete, undeniable observation that all the galaxies in the universe are traveling away from each other at tremendous speeds) you completely and transparently ignore it.

you are a liar peter. you lie to us, of course, but more heinously, you lie even to yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
"you have no more tangible evidence of the origin of the earth and universe than I do".

and when you are provided with said evidence (the concrete, undeniable observation that all the galaxies in the universe are traveling away from each other at tremendous speeds) you completely and transparently ignore it.

you are a liar peter. you lie to us, of course, but more heinously, you lie even to yourself.

Okie doke all knowing Uno... find the post... date and time stamp where I ever completely and transparently ignored that point? As a matter of fact, I AGREED WITH YOU! you freakin moron! Don't sit there and call me a liar when you are either a liar yourself or too stupid to have been able to read my posts. I never ignored or denied that everything is traveling away from each other. But what YOU ignore is, that does not DISPROVE the existence of God.

quote:

At one time, a majority of folks in this country believed those principles as well. Now it seems we have gone quite the opposite direction. Do you think we are better as a country now that we are a scapegoat society?

Peter you and I had this discussion and I ask you then who raised all the people that you think are causing a decline in society? And I also pointed out that christians were and still are in the majority. So who do YOU think is responsible? A small majority of atheists who for the most part are just as responsible and law abiding as any christian, or christians who have run and still are running this country? Stop beating around the bush and just tell us who, in your opinion, is responsible for the decline.

quote:

Sez bluetick:
How many of us are trying to eradicate the belief in God?

Not me.

Well, blue, after reading thorugh this thread, it seems you, and a couple of others, are in small company.

quote:

Sez Unob:
yes, of course i am trying to change minds. that is the whole point in the debates that all of us participate in. to say we (atheists and believers) are not trying to change someone's mind seems just a bit disingenuous.

i would like nothing more than for people to suddenly have the light of reason in their lives. to think for themselves. to embrace doubt, to be more skeptical. to understand the damage that religion inflicts upon society.

the entire point of "atheism" is to deny that gods exist. if there is one thing all atheists have in common is that belief in gods, santa, easter bunny are all silly--to be looked down upon. of COURSE we want to change minds.

i would be absolutely thrilled if it became taboo to discuss religious beliefs or to admit to "talking to gods" when forming an opinion or enforcing a law. that will not happen until believers understand that there are enough of us out there calling BS on them. but that has happened in great Brittan. it can happen here. but only if we change some minds.

all that said, i do't care what goes on inside your heads with respect to the existence of gods. the atheist mantra ought to be "i don't care what you think about gods. just don't let it affect me."

To be looked down on? Isn't that taking the same approach as the religion you hate?

Taboo? In other words, your belief should trump any others belief because you are enlightened?
Wouldn't that "effect" them?

I think "militant atheism" is it's own worst enemy. There are those "neutrals" who could care less about ones belief in a creator or not. We look at you as a person. We roll right along with religious people on a personal basis just the same as we do nons.
However, the moment one of you starts "bashing" the other...you are a real turn-off. That seems to happen more with the militant atheists, and hard core fundies on here.
I have no respect for either of the two.

Goodness Jank.. that was a long post... lol

I'll start with the last one first. You just echoed what I say over and over and over again. Scientifically none of us know the origin. My faith in God doesn't prove the existence of God, and faith in scientific theories does not disprove the existence of God.

I never said Christianity was not a religion. I said that being religious and being a Christian are independent of one another. That's a Biblical truth you should know from your studies.

I don't need or expect a god to help me or think that sata has any influence over me or this world either. YAY!!! We agree on something!!

The point that I was typing about just before that... "personal responsibility"

As for the hand out stuff...uh.. have you looked at our society here in America now? That's what we have become... a handout society.

Biblical principles for a foundation of a sound and moral life has NOTHING to do with debating the origin of the world. There is nothing in my day to day decision making where I say.."god did it". That's what I'm talking about. scapegoating as in... "Yeah, i knew having sex could lead to pregnancy, and even though I knew I didn't want a baby, I took that risk anyway...now, can you just trash this thing inside me so I can head back to the club?" That's the scapegoating I'm talking about.

Uh... if it's a question about THEIR OWN STANCE and they can't answer is... I'M the ignorant one???? LMAO!!! that makes a lot of sense.

If you truely just "waited for evidence", then like I said, you wouldn't call folks who believe in God idiots simply because there could come a day when evidence could come to light to prove His existence to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

At one time, a majority of folks in this country believed those principles as well. Now it seems we have gone quite the opposite direction. Do you think we are better as a country now that we are a scapegoat society?

Peter you and I had this discussion and I ask you then who raised all the people that you think are causing a decline in society? And I also pointed out that christians were and still are in the majority. So who do YOU think is responsible? A small majority of atheists who for the most part are just as responsible and law abiding as any christian, or christians who have run and still are running this country? Stop beating around the bush and just tell us who, in your opinion, is responsible for the decline.

I'm not blaming "atheists" or blaming "christians". Simply stating that we as a society once followed more closely Biblical principles... now we don't... Are we better now that we largely ignore biblical principles than when we largely used those as a foundation?

I'm not looking for categories, I'm talking society as a whole.

quote:

I'm not blaming "atheists" or blaming "christians". Simply stating that we as a society once followed more closely Biblical principles... now we don't... Are we better now that we largely ignore biblical principles than when we largely used those as a foundation?

Again, that would be a question the christians have to answer. The religious fervor of the country hasn't changed.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

I'm not blaming "atheists" or blaming "christians". Simply stating that we as a society once followed more closely Biblical principles... now we don't... Are we better now that we largely ignore biblical principles than when we largely used those as a foundation?

Again, that would be a question the christians have to answer. The religious fervor of the country hasn't changed.

religious fervor? Religious fervor, as you call it, when based in Christianity is slid into the looney bin category by the mainstream of society now. I think you are incorrect in that assessment Jenn.

Religious fervor doesn't mean FOLLOWING BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES. Oprah and Barry Obama's brand of religious fervor is all the rage maybe...but trust me, neither have much to do with true Biblical principles.

Unob said, "to say we (atheists and believers) are not trying to change someone's mind seems just a bit disingenuous."


I didn't come here to change anyone's mind. I came here to share my joy with like-minded people. After I had been here a while I noticed that there were a lot of "Christians" who were using their "faith" to drive their political agenda, so I stuck around to try to combat that.

And I also noticed that there were a lot of atheists who AGREED with me about the political agenda of some of these so-called Christians, and yet they still insisted on insulting my intelligence by comparing my faith to a belief in the tooth fairy. So I stuck around to combat THAT notion too.

There really ARE Christians who believe in science and evolution, and who believe that we should keep our faith and our government seperate. I am one of them.

And I still like to share my joy with like-minded people.

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
To be looked down on? Isn't that taking the same approach as the religion you hate? Taboo? In other words, your belief should trump any others belief because you are enlightened?
Wouldn't that "effect" them?

you pretty much nailed it.

i may have a very good friend who i love in every way. but when they pray, there is a part of of me that judges that part of them negatively. i admit to it.

you may have a friend that believes in fairies or space alien abductions or is a 9-11 "truther." that belief may not affect your friendship with that person whatsoever but you know on some level that this person is just a little "off" for believing that rubbish. when that friend learns to quit bringing that goofy stuff up (when it becomes "taboo"), i'll stop judging them.

yes, i freely admit, my lack of belief in invisible men who liveth in the sky should trump others because it is based on reason and rationality, not wishful thinking and superstition. is there something wrong with that?

O No! and I agree again....(somewhat). lol

I am a Christian who loves science when the context isn't contantly... "And this proves that... by the way YOU ARE STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GOD." That isn't what science is.

As for believing in evolution... that is a vague term thus saying I believe it is not a blanket statement for every version of evolution I hear.

As for faith and gov't...as long as there isn't a one religion gov't that requires worship of that state sponsered "faith", then one's own personal faith can mix with the gov't anytime. To say otherwise is to take away a freedom. Our faith is part of our decision making, thus it is impossible to separate the two just because you are voting, or are a representative.

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
I think "militant atheism" is it's own worst enemy.

actually, there is considerable evidence that ridicule works pretty well at changing people's viewpoint. this is especially the case among men. it still happens rarely. people are naturally resistant to changing their beleifs - especially ones they've held for a long time.

i actually get a rush out of being proven wrong about something i once held dear. i've "come around" on quite a few important political and societal issues since i embraced doubt. some of that was because of ridicule. some from the gentle approach. mostly on my own.

quote:

yes, i freely admit, my lack of belief in invisible men who liveth in the sky should trump others because it is based on reason and rationality, not wishful thinking and superstition. is there something wrong with that?

And yes, I'LL admit freely that my trust in the Lord should trump others because it is based on faith through the grace of God, not on egotistical belief in the power of my own intellect. Is there something wrong with that?

Peter, could it be too that the argument "god will get you for that" just doesn't work? I saw you post that you had "won" a debate on abortion. That is impossible. No one that believes in abortion will "lose" a debate because again, after the dust settles no one has changed their mind. I can not imagine what kind of woman would kill her child simply because it's an inconvenience. I can't imagine a man that would do it, and I can't imagine a man that would still live with a woman that told him he had no say in his child's life if he wanted the baby. It takes, in my opinion, two pretty horrible people to agree to kill it, and a horrible woman to murder a man's child while professing to "love" that man. The same goes for a man that supposedly loves a woman but "forces" her to abort her baby.
Now that said, christians run after women and girls shouting things about "god" to them. That means nothing to them because they know that god isn't going to "get them." Yes, you can scare a young child with that threat, thankfully my parents weren't like that, and after a child gets to a certain age they laugh at that threat. They may be christians, but they have that belief that their god will forgive them for anything because that is just what christians preach to them daily.
In other words they have an out. Atheists don't do that. My kids know that after a certain age their father and I are no longer responsible for them, and they are responsible for what they do. They have to live with themselves if they make bad choices and hurt others, so it's best for them and society if they make the right ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Peter, could it be too that the argument "god will get you for that" just doesn't work? I saw you post that you had "won" a debate on abortion. That is impossible. No one that believes in abortion will "lose" a debate because again, after the dust settles no one has changed their mind. I can not imagine what kind of woman would kill her child simply because it's an inconvenience. I can't imagine a man that would do it, and I can't imagine a man that would still live with a woman that told him he had no say in his child's life if he wanted the baby. It takes, in my opinion, two pretty horrible people to agree to kill it, and a horrible woman to murder a man's child while professing to "love" that man. The same goes for a man that supposedly loves a woman but "forces" her to abort her baby.
Now that said, christians run after women and girls shouting things about "god" to them. That means nothing to them because they know that god isn't going to "get them." Yes, you can scare a young child with that threat, thankfully my parents weren't like that, and after a child gets to a certain age they laugh at that threat. They may be christians, but they have that belief that their god will forgive them for anything because that is just what christians preach to them daily.
In other words they have an out. Atheists don't do that. My kids know that after a certain age their father and I are no longer responsible for them, and they are responsible for what they do. They have to live with themselves if they make bad choices and hurt others, so it's best for them and society if they make the right ones.

I don't like the "God will get you for that" junk anymore than you do. Once again, that goes back to my point of "religious acts of man is not the same as true Christianity based on Biblical truths."

I was raised in a way that was "I'll bust your asss if you lie to me...or if you do what I tell you not to." My step dad and mom didn't have to use "God will get you", they did what God ordered them to do as parents and that is to get me themselves! lol... Read my posts over on teh "God in the ER" thread and you'll see, I don't get into God bailing us out, saving us, or causing harm, or allowing harm to fall on us. I hate that version of a scapegoat as much as any.

And the debate about abortion, i was making a point that to win a true debate, you don't have to change anyones mind, just have better arguements, and be able to find more holes in the other guys' arguements.

As for your stance on abortion, we are very much of like mind on everything you posted.

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:

quote:

yes, i freely admit, my lack of belief in invisible men who liveth in the sky should trump others because it is based on reason and rationality, not wishful thinking and superstition. is there something wrong with that?

And yes, I'LL admit freely that my trust in the Lord should trump others because it is based on faith through the grace of God, not on egotistical belief in the power of my own intellect. Is there something wrong with that?

yes, of course there is something wrong with that. if i agreed with you, i would not be an atheist. you are trusting an INVISIBLE MAN WHO LIVES IN THE SKY, for goodness sakes. trusting him so much that you would presumably die for him if asked. of COURSE that is silly to those of us who have seen behind the curtain.

your belief (faith) is based on ancient superstition and inability to think critically. both are demonstrably bad for your intellect. once your brain is prepped to to accept anything on faith, you will accept, well, anything. astrology, homeopathy, prenology, numerology, psychic ability, "balance bands."

again, believe what you want to believe but when you expose those beliefs to ridicule, you know to expect just that.

Uno... what "curtain" have you seen behind?? That's junk man. Once again, if you've seen behind the "curtain" that disproves the existence of God, fill us in. Otherwise you just continue to boast of superior intellect(IMO to overcompensate for something else) without any actual facts to back you up. Talk about all the scientific theories and scientific hypothesis that you want. But once again, until you have actual facts that disprove creation, then you are just blowin smoke. You know nothing more about the beginning than O No! or I do. Whatever you want to believe, fine...but knock off the prikish act of calling people stupid simply because they don't believe as you do.

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:

quote:

yes, i freely admit, my lack of belief in invisible men who liveth in the sky should trump others because it is based on reason and rationality, not wishful thinking and superstition. is there something wrong with that?

And yes, I'LL admit freely that my trust in the Lord should trump others because it is based on faith through the grace of God, not on egotistical belief in the power of my own intellect. Is there something wrong with that?

yes, of course there is something wrong with that. if i agreed with you, i would not be an atheist. you are trusting an INVISIBLE MAN WHO LIVES IN THE SKY, for goodness sakes. trusting him so much that you would presumably die for him if asked. of COURSE that is silly to those of us who have seen behind the curtain.

your belief (faith) is based on ancient superstition and inability to think critically. both are demonstrably bad for your intellect. once your brain is prepped to to accept anything on faith, you will accept, well, anything. astrology, homeopathy, prenology, numerology, psychic ability, "balance bands."

again, believe what you want to believe but when you expose those beliefs to ridicule, you know to expect just that.

I object to your assertion that I am unable to think critically. As I have said before, I believe and have studied science, I believe in evolution, and I am not the only person interested in the sciences who also believes in God. I think a few weeks ago we talked about THAT right here on this forum.


You say, "once your brain is prepped to to accept anything on faith, you will accept, well, anything. astrology, homeopathy, prenology, numerology, psychic ability, "balance bands."


Then why is it I DON'T believe in those things? (Well, except that I am still keeping an open mind about the POSSIBILITY of ESP.)

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...but knock off the prikish act of calling people stupid simply because they don't believe as you do.

Where's that post?

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

...but knock off the prikish act of calling people stupid simply because they don't believe as you do.

Where's that post?

seriously?? lol

He's said it to me directly multiple times, and the insinuation is obvious in just about every post he has. The one to O No! just a few up is the one I was referring to.

quote:

seriously?? lol

He's said it to me directly multiple times, and the insinuation is obvious in just about every post he has. The one to O No! just a few up is the one I was referring to.

You insinuate the same thing. Like the post you just made to invictus. I scanned back and didn't see any post calling you stupid so yes, seriously, show me. As far as the other one, well. LOL