Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...
Original Post
why should I have to pay for someone else's health care???


I feel the same way about retirement, health, homeowners, car, and life insurance funds. Maybe we should all be self-insured and get back only the premiums we pay in. Might help to keep insurance rates low.
The heat factor today is forecast to be 110. H have either of you two ever laid a brck, worked on a roof, or any other outside job this past several weeks? I do not know, but I firmly believe that all or most of the raise the retirement age folks need to brush the ice crystals off their white collars or turn off the air conditioners in the office! Occupation is cetainly a factor in retirement and life expectancy.
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Originally posted by slice:
Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...


End social security? What about the several hundred thousand I have paid in over the last 40 years? Do I lose that under your proposal?
I think people who have worked and paid in all their life SHOULD get social security and medicare coverage. I believe this was the original intent of the program. I agree with you we need to get everyone off these programs unless they have contributed or have survivor benefits. But, let's don't just end social security for all of the working people.
BTW, just curious, how long till you reach 70?
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Originally posted by earthmomma:
The stated topic is Retirement Age. The insurance, etc. has been bludgeoned to death! Retirement age is the subject of this topic! I say again, "If you are 69, should you be working on the roof today?"



No.
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I say again, "If you are 69, should you be working on the roof today?"


Should you at 64? What does a person's chosen profession have to do with being entitled to someone else's money?

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End social security? What about the several hundred thousand I have paid in over the last 40 years? Do I lose that under your proposal?
I think people who have worked and paid in all their life SHOULD get social security and medicare coverage. I believe this was the original intent of the program.


Social Security was started with the premiss that current working people would have some of their paycheck taken and given to current "old age survivor's." This was justified by telling the those who were taken from that one day they too would get to take a piece of someone else's paycheck. All that money you paid is gone. It wasn't kept for you, it was spent. We are running out of people to provide paychecks from which to steal, and the system cannot be sustained.
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Originally posted by slice:
Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...


With Medicare, you are not paying for someone else's healthcare, that 1.45 percent of your income (which is also matched by you employer) that you pay in medicare premiums on every paycheck is to pay for that.
I am all for social security but I do not think the government should be running it or "borrowing" from it. Social security should be privatized with a set of investment guidelines and options for each individual taxpayer with a small portion of what we pay going into a fund for the risk of having to collect disability and for the risk of outliving your funds. I would think if privatized that the risk of outliving funds would be low since we would get more back during retirement from putting the money in a passbook savings account than what we get now with the government sticking their hands in it.
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Originally posted by Road Puppy:
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Originally posted by Trutooit-II:
My full retirement will be 70 right now, it might even be upped before I get there.


Roger that, and ditto.

Believe me, you will get there before you know what happened !
I believe I must be having 3 birthdays a year to get this old this quick.
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Originally posted by slice:
Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...


For goodness sake quit whining !
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Originally posted by slice:
Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...

Though you're a little predictable at times, I must admit that this is a pretty well played troll. Maybe more flame will come along later to up the grade but I'd still give you credit for good effort.
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Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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I say again, "If you are 69, should you be working on the roof today?"


Should you at 64? What does a person's chosen profession have to do with being entitled to someone else's money?

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End social security? What about the several hundred thousand I have paid in over the last 40 years? Do I lose that under your proposal?
I think people who have worked and paid in all their life SHOULD get social security and medicare coverage. I believe this was the original intent of the program.


Social Security was started with the premiss that current working people would have some of their paycheck taken and given to current "old age survivor's." This was justified by telling the those who were taken from that one day they too would get to take a piece of someone else's paycheck. All that money you paid is gone. It wasn't kept for you, it was spent. We are running out of people to provide paychecks from which to steal, and the system cannot be sustained.


"This was justified by telling the those who were taken from that one day they too would get to take a piece of someone else's paycheck."

Your point is correct...but it was actually justified by FDR as an insurance program...that the money coming out was paying a premium...NOT a tax.

But the government because of certain court decisions, they had to admit, yes it was a tax and not an insurance premium...of course that's legal stuff...that hasn't stopped politicians since the '40's selling Social Security as some sort of Old Age insurance.

That's why so many people feel entitled...because they "paid in" for their "old age" insurance...That was a flat out lie.
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Originally posted by paw-paw:
End social security? What about the several hundred thousand I have paid in over the last 40 years? Do I lose that under your proposal?
I think people who have worked and paid in all their life SHOULD get social security and medicare coverage.


You haven't paid into anything...the money that has been taken out of your check for 40 years is just another tax. Do you expect to get your income tax back that you have paid for all these years?

I'm in my early '40s...most likely I'll be the one to lose under the current system...not those currently getting benefits.
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Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
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Originally posted by paw-paw:
End social security? What about the several hundred thousand I have paid in over the last 40 years? Do I lose that under your proposal?
I think people who have worked and paid in all their life SHOULD get social security and medicare coverage.


You haven't paid into anything...the money that has been taken out of your check for 40 years is just another tax. Do you expect to get your income tax back that you have paid for all these years?

I'm in my early '40s...most likely I'll be the one to lose under the current system...not those currently getting benefits.

You obviously don't draw a paycheck because on each paycheck I got (actually a payslip) was an itemized deduction for Social Security and Medicare.
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You obviously don't draw a paycheck because on each paycheck I got (actually a payslip) was an itemized deduction for Social Security and Medicare.


The government can itemize their theft however they see fit, but it won't fundamentally change what it is. FICA contributions are taxes.
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Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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You obviously don't draw a paycheck because on each paycheck I got (actually a payslip) was an itemized deduction for Social Security and Medicare.


The government can itemize their theft however they see fit, but it won't fundamentally change what it is. FICA contributions are taxes.


You are right. It is a tax. A tax used to fund an INSURANCE program. Social Insurance. A program to insure you against the loss of income due to death, disability, or old age. It was not meant to be a "retirement program". FDR himself said we can never insure 100% of the people against 100% percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life.

Your taxes are an insurance premium similar to a car insurance premium. Your car insurance premiums are used to pay the claims of other motorists wrecks. Your FICA premiums are used to pay the claims of other workers who have lost income due to death, disability, or old age.
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Originally posted by Sam:
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Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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You obviously don't draw a paycheck because on each paycheck I got (actually a payslip) was an itemized deduction for Social Security and Medicare.


The government can itemize their theft however they see fit, but it won't fundamentally change what it is. FICA contributions are taxes.


You are right. It is a tax. A tax used to fund an INSURANCE program. Social Insurance. A program to insure you against the loss of income due to death, disability, or old age. It was not meant to be a "retirement program". FDR himself said we can never insure 100% of the people against 100% percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life.

Your taxes are an insurance premium similar to a car insurance premium. Your car insurance premiums are used to pay the claims of other motorists wrecks. Your FICA premiums are used to pay the claims of other workers who have lost income due to death, disability, or old age.


Insurance companies keep some of their cash as ready reserves and invest the rest in secure investments to produce income. Uncle Sam spent the lot.
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Originally posted by elinterventor01:
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Originally posted by Sam:
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Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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You obviously don't draw a paycheck because on each paycheck I got (actually a payslip) was an itemized deduction for Social Security and Medicare.


The government can itemize their theft however they see fit, but it won't fundamentally change what it is. FICA contributions are taxes.


You are right. It is a tax. A tax used to fund an INSURANCE program. Social Insurance. A program to insure you against the loss of income due to death, disability, or old age. It was not meant to be a "retirement program". FDR himself said we can never insure 100% of the people against 100% percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life.

Your taxes are an insurance premium similar to a car insurance premium. Your car insurance premiums are used to pay the claims of other motorists wrecks. Your FICA premiums are used to pay the claims of other workers who have lost income due to death, disability, or old age.


Insurance companies keep some of their cash as ready reserves and invest the rest in secure investments to produce income. Uncle Sam spent the lot.


Social Security invested their cash in the securest investment of all, US Treasury Notes. The problem is that US Govt is now a debtor to the Social Security Administration. The questions for the next several years will be "How do we pay that debt?"
There are actually 2 problems we face when it comes to Social Security. The short term problem is one that is faced by the US Treasury. Where do we get the money to pay Social Security when they need to dip into the trust fund to pay benefits. The long term problem is one that is faced by Social Security, benefits as currently structured can't be sustained by the current income stream. Do we increase income (taxes) or reduce benefits (an almost infinite number of options).
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Originally posted by Sam:
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Originally posted by elinterventor01:
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Originally posted by Sam:
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Originally posted by dolemitejb:
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You obviously don't draw a paycheck because on each paycheck I got (actually a payslip) was an itemized deduction for Social Security and Medicare.


The government can itemize their theft however they see fit, but it won't fundamentally change what it is. FICA contributions are taxes.


You are right. It is a tax. A tax used to fund an INSURANCE program. Social Insurance. A program to insure you against the loss of income due to death, disability, or old age. It was not meant to be a "retirement program". FDR himself said we can never insure 100% of the people against 100% percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life.

Your taxes are an insurance premium similar to a car insurance premium. Your car insurance premiums are used to pay the claims of other motorists wrecks. Your FICA premiums are used to pay the claims of other workers who have lost income due to death, disability, or old age.


Insurance companies keep some of their cash as ready reserves and invest the rest in secure investments to produce income. Uncle Sam spent the lot.


Social Security invested their cash in the securest investment of all, US Treasury Notes. The problem is that US Govt is now a debtor to the Social Security Administration. The questions for the next several years will be "How do we pay that debt?"


Perhaps, unknowingly, you proved my point. However, the securities are not treasury notes. Which means they aren't on the books.
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Social Security invested their cash in the securest investment of all, US Treasury Notes. The problem is that US Govt is now a debtor to the Social Security Administration. The questions for the next several years will be "How do we pay that debt?"


Which is why SSI is a tax, not insurance. If the money owed can only be raised through taxation, there is no other classification for something than "tax." Furthermore, the fact that treasury is now in debt to SSI is not a "problem." I guess it technically is, but it's no more of a problem than using one credit card to pay off another. Either way, the debt still exists, but is now owed to another party. In both cases, the debtor is fully responsible for their own over-spending.
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L O C K B O X

Actually it's more a drawer in a file cabinet.

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They are stored in a three-ring binder, locked in the bottom drawer of a white metal filing cabinet in the Parkersburg offices of the Bureau of Public Debt. The agency, which is part of the Treasury Department, opened offices in Parkersburg in the 1950s as part of a plan to locate important government functions away from Washington, D.C., in case of an attack during the Cold War.

One bond is worth a little more than $15.1 billion, and another is valued at just under $10.7 billion. In all, the agency has about $2.5 trillion in bonds, all backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. But don't bother trying to steal them; they're nonnegotiable, which means they are worthless on the open market.
http://www.washingtontimes.com...-away-in-wva/?page=2

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By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds.

In the past, the trust funds have held marketable Treasury securities, which are available to the general public. Unlike marketable securities, special issues can be redeemed at any time at face value. Marketable securities are subject to the forces of the open market and may suffer a loss, or enjoy a gain, if sold before maturity. Investment in special issues gives the trust funds the same flexibility as holding cash.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html
quote:
Originally posted by slice:
Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...


It's fine and good for John Boehner to want to raise the retirement age or do away with Social Security altogether since he is a member of Congress and does not participate. Most of us didn't have a choice but to have about 15% of our salary go into the system therefore I expect mine at my normal retirement age. Where the hell do you get off stating it's a free benefit? I have paid into SS 45 years and my wife paid in 40 years however she died before drawing any of it. Don't seem fair does it? As for as I'm concerned, neither party has the best interest of the country at heart. The thieves are out for personal power and self enrichment.
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Originally posted by William Turner:
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Originally posted by slice:
Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner wants to see it done and I agree with him it should be, since most people are living longer. I also would like to see the end to medicaid and medicare done away with and that we go to private health care, why should I have to pay for someone else's health care??? That also means all those that are having children who can't afford them and putting it on the back of other's to have to pay for it. And those lazy people that just want everything given to them for free. End Social Security now!!! Support the Republicans that are conservative...


It's fine and good for John Boehner to want to raise the retirement age or do away with Social Security altogether since he is a member of Congress and does not participate. Most of us didn't have a choice but to have about 15% of our salary go into the system therefore I expect mine at my normal retirement age. Where the hell do you get off stating it's a free benefit? I have paid into SS 45 years and my wife paid in 40 years however she died before drawing any of it. Don't seem fair does it? As for as I'm concerned, neither party has the best interest of the country at heart. The thieves are out for personal power and self enrichment.


The main points for Social Security and Medicare is to keep them solvent. Funds must not be siphoned off by congress. These funds should be kept separate from the general fund.

Once point of correction, Boehner was elected in 1985, so like all federal employees hired, he will draw social security. Older civil servants and elected officials who entered service before 1984 draw upon the CSRS pension system, which does not include social security. Since 1984, they are subject to FERS, which includes a 401(k) fund (up to 5 percent matching0 social security, and a very small federal pension.
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The main points for Social Security and Medicare is to keep them solvent. Funds must not be siphoned off by congress. These funds should be kept separate from the general fund.


If I have more cash than I can reasonably handle and I choose to loan it to you until I need it and then you take it and spend it knowing that you'll have to repay me, have you siphoned off my money???
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Originally posted by Sam:
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The main points for Social Security and Medicare is to keep them solvent. Funds must not be siphoned off by congress. These funds should be kept separate from the general fund.


If I have more cash than I can reasonably handle and I choose to loan it to you until I need it and then you take it and spend it knowing that you'll have to repay me, have you siphoned off my money???


That would be the actions of a responsible adult. Not, that of a politician.

"America has no native criminal class, save congress."
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Originally posted by earthmomma:
The stated topic is Retirement Age. The insurance, etc. has been bludgeoned to death! Retirement age is the subject of this topic! I say again, "If you are 69, should you be working on the roof today?"


Well, if you're a roofer who at age 69 isn't yet old enough to qualify for SS and isn't disabled, then yes. Many older folks would resent being treated as if they're invalids at 69 but if someone is having trouble keeping up with their trade in their 60's, they can go work as a greeter at the Walmart or something for that extra time until the checks start coming.
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Originally posted by earthmomma:
I do not think I have read such a calloused remark in a long time!


Oh really? I can top it...

I think older people have it much better than the people my age ever will and need to appreciate the government benefits they do have . I've personally paid into the SS system for 35 years and will probably never see one red cent, much less Medicare by the time I'm old enough to qualify because there won't be any money left. My 401K took a huge hit and will never recover. I don't own my home outright. I have to work for a living and if and when I ever need to find another job, add me to the other 5000 people applying for it. Thanks to our illustrious president and his stupid health care plan, my company is about to raise rates to the point where I can't afford to pay it anymore and I have dependents who need it. Should I go on? I don't mean anything personal, I'm just debating my point.
I think you have successfully offered much better rebuttal to the problem of the people who work outside and do much physical labor much better than I ever could. Consider your points concerning no other jobs and higher taxes and insurance. Again, Walmart only needs a very few greeters! At what age do you think we need to start getting rid of older people in this country? Will there be a lump sum payoff of the money they have contributed to SS? BTW, by virtue of being given a good mind by the Lord, working hard, and being frightfully frugal, I do not need to worry. How many times did you eat out last week and how many cold drinks did you buy?(yes, this is related!)
Eat out? Are you serious? I'm wondering how I'm going to get school clothes and school supplies for the kids before school starts next week. I'm wondering how I'm going to pay my mortgage next month.

Now, let's see you be honest. You no doubt recieve a big fat pension from the state you taught school in, you get Social Security, Medicare, your house is paid off, and that doesn't even include what your spouse ( if you have one) brings in. You retirees were fortunate enough to to have lived in this country during a time when you COULD save, when you COULD find a job, when everyday people COULD buy a house, etc. I'm happy for you and I hope you continue to enjoy the rewards of your hard work for a long time to come, but please try to see why us 40 somethings with not much to look forward to about retirement except eating Alpo resent the pi$$ing and moaning about adding another couple of years to the retirement age.
I also lived during a depression in which I did not have enought to eat at times and watched my father ruin his health trying to make enough money to support us. I learned how to live frugally - and do without. I also went through college on a shoestring(no grants)in order to get my education. I have two daughters whose futures I worry about constantly. I am providing a sizable sum of money toward the living expenses of one who is is disabled. I am still wondering at what age some posters think you should be exterminating older people.

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