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Columnists War Breaks out at 'NYT'


New York Times columnists Bob Herbert, Paul Krugman and David Brooks battle it out over Reagan and racism.



NEW YORK -- The New York Times Op-Ed page hasn't been this hot in a long time. Now we are experiencing Columnist Wars, with Bob Herbert today joining in a rapidly escalating battle between Paul Krugman and David Brooks -- largely over an incident involving Ronald Reagan at a local fair over 27 years ago.
None has mentioned a colleague by name, while tossing around charges such as "woefully wrongheaded" and "agitprop."
Krugman kicked it off with a Sept. 27 column on the Republicans' continuing problems in attracting minority voters. "Republican politicians ... understand quite well that the G.O.P.'s national success since the 1970s owes everything to the partisan switch of Southern whites," he declared. "Since the days of Gerald Ford, just about every Republican presidential campaign has included some symbolic gesture of approval for good old-fashioned racism."
Then came this kicker, as Krugman charged that GOP godfather, Ronald Reagan, who "began his political career by campaigning against California's Fair Housing Act, started his 1980 campaign with a speech supporting states' rights delivered just outside Philadelphia, Miss., where three civil rights workers were murdered."
Brooks took awhile, but fired back on Nov. 9, opening his column: "Today, I'm going to write about a slur. It's a distortion that's been around for a while, but has spread like a weed over the past few months. It was concocted for partisan reasons: to flatter the prejudices of one side, to demonize the other and to simplify a complicated reality into a political nursery tale.
"The distortion concerns a speech Ronald Reagan gave during the 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Miss., which is where three civil rights workers had been murdered 16 years earlier. An increasing number of left-wing commentators assert that Reagan kicked off his 1980 presidential campaign with a states' rights speech in Philadelphia to send a signal to white racists that he was on their side. The speech is taken as proof that the Republican majority was built on racism.
"The truth," Brook explained, "is more complicated." He claimed that Reagan had actually attempted to court black votes right after the 1980 convention. Brooks then offered as an excuse for the Mississippi trip: the Reagan campaign "was famously disorganized," and he was forced to go when locals promised he would be there. When he got there he gave a "short and cheerful" speech: "The use of the phrase 'states' rights' didn't spark any reaction in the crowd, but it led the coverage in The Times and The Post the next day."
Brooks concluded: "You can look back on this history in many ways. It's callous, at least, to use the phrase 'states' rights' in any context in Philadelphia. Reagan could have done something wonderful if he'd mentioned civil rights at the fair. He didn't. ...
"Still, the agitprop version of this week -- that Reagan opened his campaign with an appeal to racism -- is a distortion." Then he smashed Krugman: "But still the slur spreads. It's spread by people who, before making one of the most heinous charges imaginable, couldn't even take 10 minutes to look at the evidence. It posits that there was a master conspiracy to play on the alleged Klan-like prejudices of American voters, when there is no evidence of that conspiracy. And, of course, in a partisan age there are always people eager to believe this stuff."
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/67814/
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Reagan in Philadelphia, Miss.: The Sequel - New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/opinion/l15herbert.ht...0and%20Op-Ed/Letters

Letters


Reagan in Philadelphia, Miss.: The Sequel



Published: November 15, 2007
To the Editor:

Bob Herbert (“Righting Reagan’s Wrongs?,” column, Nov. 13) could not be more correct in writing that “Reagan apologists ... have no right to change the meaning” of his appearance at the Neshoba County Fair to kick off his 1980 campaign. If anyone doubts this, simply get out a map and find Philadelphia, Miss.

One does not simply fly in and out of that town as if it were New York. One must truly go out of one’s way, in both a physical as well as a psychological sense, to arrive there. Ronald Reagan knew exactly what he was doing, and to view it as anything other than an appeal to racism one must be told, “There you go again.”

Larry Barkan
Tempe, Ariz., Nov. 13, 2007



To the Editor:

The racial appeal in Ronald Reagan’s visit to the Neshoba County Fair in 1980 is unambiguous. It was part of a Republican strategy to win white Democratic converts. Consider a letter that Michael Retzer, the Mississippi national committeeman, wrote in December 1979 to the Republican National Committee.

The national committee was polling state leaders for venues where the Republican nominee might speak, and Mr. Retzer pointed to the Neshoba County Fair as ideal for winning what he called “George Wallace-inclined voters.”

This was not just a Southern strategy. Throughout his career, Mr. Reagan benefited from divisive appeals to whites who resented efforts to reverse historic patterns of racial discrimination.

He did it in 1966 when he campaigned for the California governorship by denouncing open housing laws. He did it in 1976 by attacking welfare in subtly racist terms. And he clearly did it in Neshoba County in 1980.

Joseph Crespino
Atlanta, Nov. 14, 2007

The writer teaches history at Emory University and is the author of “In Search of Another Country: Mississippi and the Conservative Counterrevolution.”
Reagan also hypocritically implied racism on the part of Jimmy Carter during the 1980 presidential election campaign. Carter opened his campaign on Labor Day in Tuscumbia, Alabama. I was there, with my family, and heard him speak. Reagan, commenting on Carter's campaign inaguration site, misidentified and stigmatized Tuscumbia as (and this is an exact quote) "the birthplace and parent body of the Ku Klux Klan."

If they had halfway researched the matter, Reagan's handlers--including the lying,scheming weasel and spin doctor, Lee Atwater--would have known that the Ku Klux Klan began in Pulaski, Tennessee, not Tuscumbia. Tuscumbia, in 1980, was the headquarters of a faction of the Klan headed up by Don Black, a malcontent loser who later went to prison for his part in an aborted attempt to take over some minuscule Caribbean island and who had nothing to do with the post-Civil War founding of the Klan by Nathan Bedford Forrest and his Confederate cronies.

Whether this egregious smear by Reagan or his remarks at Neshoba County had anything to do with his election victory is beside the point Bob Herbert made in his column. That point, solidly substantiated, was that Reagan clearly employed racist code language in his outreach to Southern white voters, who understood them exactly as the Gipper and the GOP campaign strategists expected them to.
As the history teacher and author from Emory University points out Reagan used the race card to play whites against blacks throughout his political career. I was living in a blue collar working class neighborhood in New Jersey at the time and people there understood Reagan's meanings. I remember being told how this election was about "us against them.". It echoed across the country in traditional blue collar white working class cities.

The "Economic Royalists" and now the "Corporate Class" always used race to divide working people

This "Southern Strategy" as it was called was developed by the Nixon Team and used across the country. I remember the 1968 election as I was a senior in high school and we followed it in our history class. I believe the actual strategy was developed by Kevin Phillips who is now a major critic of George the second and the radical right wing republicans. They have sold out America.

Reagan was known for his lies and there was a book out during the late 1980s called "They he goes again," quoting a couple hundred of his "misstatements." Like, Bush, Cheney, Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing they learned to say anything at the time because the lie sticks in peoples minds.

Still, the popular vote in 1980 was close and it was mainly because John Anderson ran as a liberal republican independent took votes from Carter. Also the corporate media played up Reagan as a savior. They protrayed him as someone "outside" the Washington Beltway and sort of a "New Comer" to politics with "Fresh New ideas."

Of course those of us that had remembered him from the 1960s and his right wing radical views and speeches that were meant to inflame and divide the people could see the bias of the corporate media. The only one to accurately show Reagan's record at the time was journalist Bill Moyers. He also had a great interview where the head of the Westinghouse corporation said that they supported Reagan's run for Governor in California to represent corporate interests. Which he did in California and as president.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Again, all your rant and sophistry can not ignore the fact of the Reagan victories which were universal, not limited to a certain area.

Once a liberal's minds made up, one shouldn't disturb him with such unpleasantness as facts.


You will have better luck arguing with the wall your computer is pluged in to than you will with these kooky libs. The wall is softer than their heads. The wall will also be more likely understand facts when you give them to it...
The popular vote was close because of Anderson. I didn't say Reagan didn't win, I said, as the University teacher wrote, he used the race card. I remember the 1980 election. The South is not the only place the race card works.

It was labeled the Southern Strategy because it was to get the South to vote Republican but it was used throughout the country.

He also had the help of the corporate media as well as the the oil corporations and the Saudi's who manipulated gas shortages and prices.


He also made a secret deal with the Iranians to sell them arms, secretly, if they released the hostages to him. It was the beginning of then Iran/Contra supply line.

Don't forget "debategate" either, where he was able to obtain Carter's notes for their debate and then practiced it with George Will, who then praised Reagan's performance in the debate.
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
The popular vote was close because of Anderson. I didn't say Reagan didn't win, I said, as the University teacher wrote, he used the race card. I remember the 1980 election. The South is not the only place the race card works.

It was labeled the Southern Strategy because it was to get the South to vote Republican but it was used throughout the country.

He also had the help of the corporate media as well as the the oil corporations and the Saudi's who manipulated gas shortages and prices.


He also made a secret deal with the Iranians to sell them arms, secretly, if they released the hostages to him. It was the beginning of then Iran/Contra supply line.

Don't forget "debategate" either, where he was able to obtain Carter's notes for their debate and then practiced it with George Will, who then praised Reagan's performance in the debate.


Here comes the conspiracy... "corporate media as well as the the oil corporations and the Saudi's who manipulated gas shortages and prices". There's always a conspiracy cause the libs never lose on their own... right?
The oil shortage and rising prices, known as "oil shock" or something to that effect was a fact. The News program 60 Minutes did a segment on how oil companies had slowed production and even had the ships go slower speeds across the ocean.

Led by the Saudi's OPEC raised the price of oil which caused a shock in the economy that hurt the economy and Carter. His programs to develop safe alternative energy like wind and solar were a threat to the oil corporations. His peace agreements in the Mideast were also a threat to Arms industry and the Military Industrial Complex which also opposed him.

Wars mean big profits.

When Reagan and Bush Sr were elected the Saudi's dropped the prices in the 80's and caused a glut to kill incentives for alternative energy sources. Reagan ended the programs and put us back on oil dependency, where we are today.
Don`t confuse the libs with facts.Just let them live in their fantasies.As conspiracies go the libs love them.One that they love is when election time comes there are always fliers that go out that say republicans vote on tuesday and dems vote on wednesday.Of course anyone with half a mind knows that this is a joke.But the libs always say that this is some sort of republican dirty trick in order to disenfranchise minority voters.In other words a conspiracy.Libs are such children at times.
Interesting old post! Bringing up an old speech given years ago to denigrate Reagan's legacy is a tactic called obscurantism. It purposely ignores bodies of well known evidence and fixates on one obscure item (usually decades after the event) to attack a person or idea.

Its a dishonest, filthy tactic; but certainly worthy of Paul Krugman and the increasing irrelevant NYT.
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
Interesting old post! Bringing up an old speech given years ago to denigrate Reagan's legacy is a tactic called obscurantism. It purposely ignores bodies of well known evidence and fixates on one obscure item (usually decades after the event) to attack a person or idea.

Its a dishonest, filthy tactic; but certainly worthy of Paul Krugman and the increasing irrelevant NYT.
Sort of like Swift Boating I guess. Filthy Tactic, but certainly worthy of Bush and his supporters.

Name calling is not likely to result in any outcome besides voter apathy, or the syndrome of the Lesser of Two Evils, instead of what should be happening, and that is choosing the Better of Two Goods.

I think we distinguish between Clean and Dirty to form an opinion. Dirty Tricks ARE WRONG, even if they work.
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Again, all your rant and sophistry can not ignore the fact of the Reagan victories which were universal, not limited to a certain area.

Once a liberal's minds made up, one shouldn't disturb him with such unpleasantness as facts.


You will have better luck arguing with the wall your computer is pluged in to than you will with these kooky libs. The wall is softer than their heads. The wall will also be more likely understand facts when you give them to it...


Pogo is giving you facts. It seems that the right wing is who don't want to listen to facts. Reagan did signify one thing in this country, the beginning of it's demise.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Reagan brought back pride in this nation.Ask anyone who served this nation under Carter.


Reagan attempted to dismantle evrything this nation was built on. His philosphy was, "make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". He is the main reason we are still as dependent on foreign oil as we are today. He could barely remember where he was at most of the time. He was nothing more than a talking head and helped solidify one of the most brutal, sadistic dictators of the 20th century, Saddam Hussein.
"make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". You libs still believe this lie.More people became wealthy under Reagan.There were more opportunities for people because he removed gov`t regulations.so please give that old line a rest. He backed Saddam because he was a buffer for our enemy Iran.Just like Stalin was an ally during WWII.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
"make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". You libs still believe this lie.More people became wealthy under Reagan.There were more opportunities for people because he removed gov`t regulations.so please give that old line a rest.


I've told you once already, I'm not a "lib". You need to understand something, not all democrats are liberals. Just like not all republicans are jerks. You make that hard to believe, it is a fact. Reagan's economic policies made wealth for the wealthy. It is a fact. The poor were kept down and in most cases not given the opportunity to better themselves. Reaganomics was adisaster, you are the one believing the lies. Lies that the republicans keep trying to force feed everyone. "Trickle Down Economics" was the biggest joke ever. Nothing trickled down except low paying, unskilled jobs that help keep the poor below the poverty line.

Were you even alive in the 80's?
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.
Bravo my good man or woman?!
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.
More liberal fantasies.Please when you type turn off Rage Against The Machine.it only confuses you.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
More liberal fantasies.Please when you type turn off Rage Against The Machine.it only confuses you.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.


I can see that the republican party has brainwashed you beyond the point of no return. Your idiotic statements and lack of knowledge astounds me. You can't even seem to comprehend what you read. I have told you over and over, I AM NOT A LIBERAL. You, obviously, are too braindead to understand that. I am very conservative in most areas. But, as far as a political affiliation goes, I align myself with the Democratic Party. They are the only party, under whose leadership, that the working man can prosper. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II have PROVEN that they only care that the wealthy prosper in this country. I was there for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now Bush II so I have seen how real people are affected by presidential policy. I can't believe you can even remember when Reagan was president much less have been in the work force.
Bull!Tell me one thing a democrat has done for you.Tell me one thing a democrat has done for the working man.Take off your blinders and realize that the dems are beholden to special interest groups.Plain and simple.this fantasy that the dems are for the working man is one of the biggest myths ever.When I was in high school I use to think mlike you(by the way I went to DHS too)But when I got out I grew up and realized what the world is like.If you don`t better yourself noone will.That includes the democrat party.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
More liberal fantasies.Please when you type turn off Rage Against The Machine.it only confuses you.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.


I can see that the republican party has brainwashed you beyond the point of no return. Your idiotic statements and lack of knowledge astounds me. You can't even seem to comprehend what you read. I have told you over and over, I AM NOT A LIBERAL. You, obviously, are too braindead to understand that. I am very conservative in most areas. But, as far as a political affiliation goes, I align myself with the Democratic Party. They are the only party, under whose leadership, that the working man can prosper. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II have PROVEN that they only care that the wealthy prosper in this country. I was there for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now Bush II so I have seen how real people are affected by presidential policy. I can't believe you can even remember when Reagan was president much less have been in the work force.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Bull!Tell me one thing a democrat has done for you.Tell me one thing a democrat has done for the working man.Take off your blinders and realize that the dems are beholden to special interest groups.Plain and simple.this fantasy that the dems are for the working man is one of the biggest myths ever.When I was in high school I use to think mlike you(by the way I went to DHS too)But when I got out I grew up and realized what the world is like.If you don`t better yourself noone will.That includes the democrat party.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
More liberal fantasies.Please when you type turn off Rage Against The Machine.it only confuses you.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.


I can see that the republican party has brainwashed you beyond the point of no return. Your idiotic statements and lack of knowledge astounds me. You can't even seem to comprehend what you read. I have told you over and over, I AM NOT A LIBERAL. You, obviously, are too braindead to understand that. I am very conservative in most areas. But, as far as a political affiliation goes, I align myself with the Democratic Party. They are the only party, under whose leadership, that the working man can prosper. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II have PROVEN that they only care that the wealthy prosper in this country. I was there for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now Bush II so I have seen how real people are affected by presidential policy. I can't believe you can even remember when Reagan was president much less have been in the work force.


Let's see, they didn't try to shut down TVA, one of our areas largest employers (Reagan tried), they support unions (my dad worked union construction so did I for many years), they don't constantly try to shove religion down my throat through politics, they don't initiate illegal wars and frankly our area has prospered more when Democrats are in office than any other times.
Answer this for me. how many jobs has TVA lost since Bud Cramer has been in office?And another lie you LIBS keep spreading is that this is an illegal war.More bull.Bush was given athority by the Congress.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Bull!Tell me one thing a democrat has done for you.Tell me one thing a democrat has done for the working man.Take off your blinders and realize that the dems are beholden to special interest groups.Plain and simple.this fantasy that the dems are for the working man is one of the biggest myths ever.When I was in high school I use to think mlike you(by the way I went to DHS too)But when I got out I grew up and realized what the world is like.If you don`t better yourself noone will.That includes the democrat party.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
More liberal fantasies.Please when you type turn off Rage Against The Machine.it only confuses you.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.


I can see that the republican party has brainwashed you beyond the point of no return. Your idiotic statements and lack of knowledge astounds me. You can't even seem to comprehend what you read. I have told you over and over, I AM NOT A LIBERAL. You, obviously, are too braindead to understand that. I am very conservative in most areas. But, as far as a political affiliation goes, I align myself with the Democratic Party. They are the only party, under whose leadership, that the working man can prosper. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II have PROVEN that they only care that the wealthy prosper in this country. I was there for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now Bush II so I have seen how real people are affected by presidential policy. I can't believe you can even remember when Reagan was president much less have been in the work force.


Let's see, they didn't try to shut down TVA, one of our areas largest employers (Reagan tried), they support unions (my dad worked union construction so did I for many years), they don't constantly try to shove religion down my throat through politics, they don't initiate illegal wars and frankly our area has prospered more when Democrats are in office than any other times.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Reagan brought back pride in this nation.Ask anyone who served this nation under Carter.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Deny it all you want but you know it`s true.What did Carter and Clinton bring us.shame.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Reagan brought back pride in this nation.Ask anyone who served this nation under Carter.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Answer this for me. how many jobs has TVA lost since Bud Cramer has been in office?And another lie you LIBS keep spreading is that this is an illegal war.More bull.Bush was given athority by the Congress.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Bull!Tell me one thing a democrat has done for you.Tell me one thing a democrat has done for the working man.Take off your blinders and realize that the dems are beholden to special interest groups.Plain and simple.this fantasy that the dems are for the working man is one of the biggest myths ever.When I was in high school I use to think mlike you(by the way I went to DHS too)But when I got out I grew up and realized what the world is like.If you don`t better yourself noone will.That includes the democrat party.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
More liberal fantasies.Please when you type turn off Rage Against The Machine.it only confuses you.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
Reagan was the last real man to serve as President. He got this country going once again with his economic and foreign policies. You don't remember Jimmy Carter's Presidential nightmare do you? I was there and it was truly a disaster. You liberals just can't stand the fact that Ronald Reagan was the best President ever.


Yes, I was there. And I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Reagan was the beginning of the end for all that was good for the working man in this country. He systematically tried to do away with all things good for the working man. As I've stated before, Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" was without challenge, the most ignorant, detremental economic policy that has ever been introduced to the American people. It just further proved Reagan's senility.

Also, remember that your hero, Ronnie Boy, is the main reason that Saddam Hussein garnered the weapons and technology he did have. Reagan's administration help create that monster. And if that wasn't enough, he helped bring the Taliban to power. Wow, what a man. we will be paying for his "contributions" to our nation for many more generations.


I can see that the republican party has brainwashed you beyond the point of no return. Your idiotic statements and lack of knowledge astounds me. You can't even seem to comprehend what you read. I have told you over and over, I AM NOT A LIBERAL. You, obviously, are too braindead to understand that. I am very conservative in most areas. But, as far as a political affiliation goes, I align myself with the Democratic Party. They are the only party, under whose leadership, that the working man can prosper. Reagan, Bush I and Bush II have PROVEN that they only care that the wealthy prosper in this country. I was there for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and now Bush II so I have seen how real people are affected by presidential policy. I can't believe you can even remember when Reagan was president much less have been in the work force.


Let's see, they didn't try to shut down TVA, one of our areas largest employers (Reagan tried), they support unions (my dad worked union construction so did I for many years), they don't constantly try to shove religion down my throat through politics, they don't initiate illegal wars and frankly our area has prospered more when Democrats are in office than any other times.


Look, for the last time, I AM NOT A LIBERAL! Either point out anything that makes me a liberal or shut up. I don't call you a stupid, idiotic ******* just because you are republican. If you had any inkling of intelligence you would know that just because a person is a Democrat it doesn't make them a liberal.

As for illegal war, maybe you are right. I withdraw that staement and replace it with unjustified war. Is that better?
DHS,

A small selection of your postings:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pogo is giving you facts. It seems that the right wing is who don't want to listen to facts. Reagan did signify one thing in this country, the beginning of it's demise.

Reagan attempted to dismantle evrything this nation was built on. His philosphy was, "make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". He is the main reason we are still as dependent on foreign oil as we are today. He could barely remember where he was at most of the time. He was nothing more than a talking head and helped solidify one of the most brutal, sadistic dictators of the 20th century, Saddam Hussein.

I've told you once already, I'm not a "lib". You need to understand something, not all democrats are liberals. Just like not all republicans are jerks. You make that hard to believe, it is a fact. Reagan's economic policies made wealth for the wealthy. It is a fact. The poor were kept down and in most cases not given the opportunity to better themselves. Reaganomics was adisaster, you are the one believing the lies. Lies that the republicans keep trying to force feed everyone. "Trickle Down Economics" was the biggest joke ever. Nothing trickled down except low paying, unskilled jobs that help keep the poor below the poverty line.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Saddam was a sadistic brutal dictator, but compared to Mao, Hitler or Stalin, he was a piker.

True, from your postings of your beliefs, you are not a liberal. Just, another garden variety leftist.
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
DHS,

A small selection of your postings:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pogo is giving you facts. It seems that the right wing is who don't want to listen to facts. Reagan did signify one thing in this country, the beginning of it's demise.

Reagan attempted to dismantle evrything this nation was built on. His philosphy was, "make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". He is the main reason we are still as dependent on foreign oil as we are today. He could barely remember where he was at most of the time. He was nothing more than a talking head and helped solidify one of the most brutal, sadistic dictators of the 20th century, Saddam Hussein.

I've told you once already, I'm not a "lib". You need to understand something, not all democrats are liberals. Just like not all republicans are jerks. You make that hard to believe, it is a fact. Reagan's economic policies made wealth for the wealthy. It is a fact. The poor were kept down and in most cases not given the opportunity to better themselves. Reaganomics was adisaster, you are the one believing the lies. Lies that the republicans keep trying to force feed everyone. "Trickle Down Economics" was the biggest joke ever. Nothing trickled down except low paying, unskilled jobs that help keep the poor below the poverty line.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Saddam was a sadistic brutal dictator, but compared to Mao, Hitler or Stalin, he was a piker.

True, from your postings of your beliefs, you are not a liberal. Just, another garden variety leftist.


Hussein was as bad as any of those listed, can't find your reason for posting that.
I would be best described as a realist. I see things for what they are. I don't by into the thinking that is forced on us daily by the right. True, I'm somewhat left but by far not a liberal. As I have stated before I am a Southern Democrat and **** proud of it. If more of the voters would look past the smoke and mirrors (on both sides) and vote for a person instead of party we might make progress. Until then, we are stuck and spinning our wheels. But, since most of my political thoughts align themselves with the democrats, that is the way I'll vote until a third party arises that better suits ALL of my poltical thoughts.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Reagan brought back pride in this nation.Ask anyone who served this nation under Carter.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA



Shame? Blame?? We know WHERE all that needs to go. Just because a few on here don't, doesn't make it right.
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
DHS,

A small selection of your postings:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pogo is giving you facts. It seems that the right wing is who don't want to listen to facts. Reagan did signify one thing in this country, the beginning of it's demise.

Reagan attempted to dismantle evrything this nation was built on. His philosphy was, "make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". He is the main reason we are still as dependent on foreign oil as we are today. He could barely remember where he was at most of the time. He was nothing more than a talking head and helped solidify one of the most brutal, sadistic dictators of the 20th century, Saddam Hussein.

I've told you once already, I'm not a "lib". You need to understand something, not all democrats are liberals. Just like not all republicans are jerks. You make that hard to believe, it is a fact. Reagan's economic policies made wealth for the wealthy. It is a fact. The poor were kept down and in most cases not given the opportunity to better themselves. Reaganomics was adisaster, you are the one believing the lies. Lies that the republicans keep trying to force feed everyone. "Trickle Down Economics" was the biggest joke ever. Nothing trickled down except low paying, unskilled jobs that help keep the poor below the poverty line.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Saddam was a sadistic brutal dictator, but compared to Mao, Hitler or Stalin, he was a piker.

True, from your postings of your beliefs, you are not a liberal. Just, another garden variety leftist.


Hussein was as bad as any of those listed, can't find your reason for posting that.
I would be best described as a realist. I see things for what they are. I don't by into the thinking that is forced on us daily by the right. True, I'm somewhat left but by far not a liberal. As I have stated before I am a Southern Democrat and **** proud of it. If more of the voters would look past the smoke and mirrors (on both sides) and vote for a person instead of party we might make progress. Until then, we are stuck and spinning our wheels. But, since most of my political thoughts align themselves with the democrats, that is the way I'll vote until a third party arises that better suits ALL of my poltical thoughts.


DHS you're an embarrassment to Deshler with your worthless posts.
Last edited by Jobe
quote:
Originally posted by Jobe:
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
DHS,

A small selection of your postings:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pogo is giving you facts. It seems that the right wing is who don't want to listen to facts. Reagan did signify one thing in this country, the beginning of it's demise.

Reagan attempted to dismantle evrything this nation was built on. His philosphy was, "make the rich, richer and make the poor, poorer". He is the main reason we are still as dependent on foreign oil as we are today. He could barely remember where he was at most of the time. He was nothing more than a talking head and helped solidify one of the most brutal, sadistic dictators of the 20th century, Saddam Hussein.

I've told you once already, I'm not a "lib". You need to understand something, not all democrats are liberals. Just like not all republicans are jerks. You make that hard to believe, it is a fact. Reagan's economic policies made wealth for the wealthy. It is a fact. The poor were kept down and in most cases not given the opportunity to better themselves. Reaganomics was adisaster, you are the one believing the lies. Lies that the republicans keep trying to force feed everyone. "Trickle Down Economics" was the biggest joke ever. Nothing trickled down except low paying, unskilled jobs that help keep the poor below the poverty line.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Saddam was a sadistic brutal dictator, but compared to Mao, Hitler or Stalin, he was a piker.

True, from your postings of your beliefs, you are not a liberal. Just, another garden variety leftist.


Hussein was as bad as any of those listed, can't find your reason for posting that.
I would be best described as a realist. I see things for what they are. I don't by into the thinking that is forced on us daily by the right. True, I'm somewhat left but by far not a liberal. As I have stated before I am a Southern Democrat and **** proud of it. If more of the voters would look past the smoke and mirrors (on both sides) and vote for a person instead of party we might make progress. Until then, we are stuck and spinning our wheels. But, since most of my political thoughts align themselves with the democrats, that is the way I'll vote until a third party arises that better suits ALL of my poltical thoughts.


DHS you're an embarrassment to Deshler with your worthless posts.


No, not quite. It just seems that some cannot accept truth. You seem to fit that mold. Worthless posts? That is an expected response when one does not have the capacity to grasp and understnad the world around them. Thanks for letting me see your intelligence level so I will remember to be as remedial as possible when or if I respond to you in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
I remember guys like you at Deshler.Always wearing black and whining about how cruel the world is.You would spill your nonsense in class and the teachers loved it because you were open-minded.But in reality you were just a sad little fella. Weren`t you?


Nope, never wore all black. Go away little jerk. matter of fact I was never sad and rarely ever am I now. I would bet you weren't even in kindergarten when i was at Deshler. You're just a miserable little idiot, now bye, bye!

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