Please remember Shelby was against the auto bailout when it comes reelection time,remember he said these hard workers were overpaid and made a bad outdated product,remember this out of touch elitist assault on blue collar U.S.A.
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We wont have to wait that long, lets remember Shelby when he said we are throwing our money down a endless pit. Can we remember that in about 3-6 months when the Auto Makers file bankruptcy? Why bail someone out that demonstrated poor management. As for the Hard worker that gets put out in the cold? Let them look in the windows of the Top Execs eating their dinners, because they will not go hungry, just the poor sucker on the assembly line.
25 billion isn't going to bail them out. and in 3 months they will be asking for more with the same old sob story. I say get the Government out of the Free Market and let it be free.
25 billion isn't going to bail them out. and in 3 months they will be asking for more with the same old sob story. I say get the Government out of the Free Market and let it be free.
so someone making over a $100,000 dollars a year (over $70 an hour when you factor in benefits) cannot stand to take a pay cuts as opposed to loosing their job? So in a time with increasing fuel costs and when so many people were looking at buying more fuel efficient cars and the big 3 still concentrating on large SUV's and big trucks they weren't making an outdated product?
I hate to be a butt but managment and the unions are both to blame. The unions have driven labor costs up to much for the vehicles to be profitable and managment (which is making to much for a failing business also) has chosen a bad product for the long term market. Both of them have killed the big 3.
quote:Originally posted by Zeb:
Please remember Shelby was against the auto bailout when it comes reelection time,remember he said these hard workers were overpaid and made a bad outdated product,remember this out of touch elitist assault on blue collar U.S.A.
Sorry, Shelby wins my vote!
Auto workers do not make 70 an hour and if they did they still shouldnt have to take a pay cut
Unions are not to blame,the blame is management,ignorant trade policies and Americans buying *** and South Korean autos
Shelby may not support high paying jobs. He probably supports low paying sweat shop jobs. Do you think he supports increasing minimum wage? Pushing other people down will not lift you up.
I did not say they made $70 an hour I said that is what they made with benefits( it is $73 Link ). And I do not make near that much, why should I have to pay tax dollars so these people can continue making this. And buy the argument that they should not take a pay cut, than neither should the Wall Street execs every one complains about that has made millions while their companies went under. And you actually just proved shelby correct on half of your statement. When you blame American buying practices and South Korean autos you are pretty much agreeing they are making an outdated product.
I do not think it is just the Unions fault mgmt shares the blame.
I do not think it is just the Unions fault mgmt shares the blame.
People buy the South Korean cars because they are cheap in price,not the quality of American cars but it does get you into a car
Price and quality trade off.
BLUE COLLAR people cannot take a pay cut,the U.S. can give a loan or let them fail then we all pay for the massive unemployment benefits and watch the economy suffer from all the home foreclosures that will follow
what part of $73 an hour makes them blue collar. Did you read the article I linked in? The average worker in the US makes about $28.50? Why should they/ you/me have to support them. I am not against the loan, but something has to be done about pay. The companies cannot stay competitive with the Toyota and Hondas of the world which are almost $30 an hour cheaper labor cost. And I had always drove Chevy's until I started driving an American made Honda, they quality on the Honda is so far ahead of the Chevy it is not even close. That is what Shelby was saying. You have to make the company viable as a continuing entity or they well be back in a short time for another loan/ bailout
I am pleased you have a good car,although Hondas are assembled here i believe most components are imported, I don't fault non wealthy for buying imported cars because in the end you have to do what is in the best interest of your own family,Shelby is trying to manipulate people and portraying himself as fighting cooperate America but he is only trying to break unions like that idiot Reagan
I see it that the Unions has a option, either take a pay cut or let the company go bankrupt. Why is it that the Top of a company always have to give and the workers always want more?
I say let them go bankrupt and reorganize and then take the money and support the suppliers that is not owned by the Automakers. Then if after they reorganize they still need a bailout we can talk about it.
I say let them go bankrupt and reorganize and then take the money and support the suppliers that is not owned by the Automakers. Then if after they reorganize they still need a bailout we can talk about it.
If some of you can remember, Ford was paying a very large salary to works at the transmission plant near Wise(Reynolds). I think most of the workers there were getting close to $20.00 a hour in the 70's. Ford came in and said that it was going to close the plant. Asked the workers if they could take a couple dollar pay cut and they would keep it open. They said no way, we'll sweat them out. They won't close the plant. Guess what, closed it. Before some of you start the bashing, that was 30 years ago and I can't remember my numbers correctly but you get the picture. Real simple, ask the workers to take a small pay cut and get in writing that their salary will be returned to normal in a short period of time. Most of us here at my place of employment have already agreed that if this was to happen, we'd take a pay cut so we could at least have a job.
quote:Originally posted by Zeb:
...I don't fault non wealthy for buying imported cars because in the end you have to do what is in the best interest of your own family...
Wealthy or non-wealty, imported cars are generally of higher quality than domestic cars. Even the exact same car (A Ford model, produced several years ago) had higher quality when produced in Japan than when produced in America. The Japanese parts had much tighter tolerances than the American cars. This was purely a result of workmanship.
quote:but he is only trying to break unions...
While breaking the power of unions is not necessarily a bad thing (IMHO) I'm pretty sure that the current economic market will result in corporate arrogance and stupidity, and give resurgence to the power of unions. Companies are spending a lot of effort hiring part-time people simply so they won't have to pay benefits, and using the current economy as an excuse. This is typically stupid and short-sighted, and they will ultimately pay for it when the economy improves.
Shelby was protecting auto plants in the South, including Alabama. I believe that salary, plus benefits for those are in the $40 per hour range.
I disagreed with him about the tanker aircraft, which would have brought jobs to Alabama, but less jobs to the US.
I disagreed with him about the tanker aircraft, which would have brought jobs to Alabama, but less jobs to the US.
quote:imported cars are generally of higher quality than domestic cars. Even the exact same car (A Ford model, produced several years ago) had higher quality when produced in Japan than when produced in America. The Japanese parts had much tighter tolerances than the American cars. This was purely a result of workmanship.
Simply not true,there are many many high quality foreign cars but certainly not superior,Kia and Suzuki junk sale because it is cheap
I had driven "American" cars for years and now will only buy a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. When I bought a new vehicle last year, the American models were not even considered.
The big 3 have a problem larger than their existing one - they are losing generations of consumers and the ones that bought from them with a high degree of loyalty are dying off every day.
Richard Shelby also gets my vote. Let the system work itself out and maybe the Big 3 will come out smaller but stronger and make a more competative product.
The big 3 have a problem larger than their existing one - they are losing generations of consumers and the ones that bought from them with a high degree of loyalty are dying off every day.
Richard Shelby also gets my vote. Let the system work itself out and maybe the Big 3 will come out smaller but stronger and make a more competative product.
quote:Originally posted by Zeb:
Simply not true,there are many many high quality foreign cars but certainly not superior,Kia and Suzuki junk sale because it is cheap
I said "generally". I remember the Yugo...
quote:Please remember Shelby was against the auto bailout when it comes reelection time
I sure will and I will shake his hand and thank when I see him again for not pouring our hard earned tax money into such a poorly managed outfit!!!!!!
LOL so many ignorant people,bailout or depression i see what you fools prefer
Shelby is like a tick on a slow moving hound-dog. Hes a slug.
So many rant on n on about the cause which s POINTLESS,rambling about smoking to a lung cancer patient does nothing,deal with the NOW
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Shelby is like a tick on a slow moving hound-dog. Hes a slug.
He is a true low life and so wealthy he is far far out of touch,**** we once sent integrity to D.C. like Heflin
quote:Originally posted by Zeb:
I am pleased you have a good car,although Hondas are assembled here i believe most components are imported, I don't fault non wealthy for buying imported cars because in the end you have to do what is in the best interest of your own family,Shelby is trying to manipulate people and portraying himself as fighting cooperate America but he is only trying to break unions like that idiot Reagan
So those you consider "well off" do not need to think of their families as well? They do not need to be concerned with paying a higher price for an automobile just because it is going to support the UAW? That is ridiculous. The big three are paying nearly double what it costs the other carmakers in the South to produce a vehicle. Do you actually believe every part on the automobile manufactered by the big three is made in America?
The UAW is as much to blame as the managemnet. If the contracts were renegoited and the costs were more in line with the other companies I would be all for bailing them out, but at this point I say "No!".
its all about power on this bailout for the automakers.....if they take the bailout they still have control of their companies, if they take a bankruptcy, then a Judge will have ultimate control. I say let a Judge control because the present leadership of the autos has proven they can't handle the situation.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zeb:
LOL so many ignorant people,bailout or depression i see what you fools prefer[/QUOTE
Until you half way understand the english language,and the principles of capitalization and punctuation,please don't call anyone ignorant or fools.You're just angry because Shelby won't go down the socialist path like your "CHOSEN ONE" and the majority of the worthless bastards in congress.
LOL so many ignorant people,bailout or depression i see what you fools prefer[/QUOTE
Until you half way understand the english language,and the principles of capitalization and punctuation,please don't call anyone ignorant or fools.You're just angry because Shelby won't go down the socialist path like your "CHOSEN ONE" and the majority of the worthless bastards in congress.
Ford Motor Company left the Shoals because the plant building was polluted and the land on which it stood - still is. This pollution was reported in the TD several years ago. The last two personnel men were friends of my family and told us that Ford was going to close the plant and blame it on labor. Salaries in the Shoals were the same as salaries in Michigan - why should they have beeen less? I am a southerner and proud of it. Why am I worth less than a worker in Michigan? Their salaries were not at that time in question. This post is only in regard to the local plant closing - just reporting the facts.
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Shelby is like a tick on a slow moving hound-dog. Hes a slug.
Not anymore. He left the Democrat Party a good while ago.
Shelby has my vote. He's one of the only leaders in Washington with enough sense to get out of the rain.
quote:Originally posted by skymaster:quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Shelby is like a tick on a slow moving hound-dog. Hes a slug.
Not anymore. He left the Democrat Party a good whil
"I like that about the Republicans; the evidence does not faze them, they are not bothered at all by the facts.” e ago.
I been around a long time. Sort of a "been there, done that" type person, but I am still amazed at union members position on anything union. Even though their membership has declined greatly in the past years, they continue to have an ego big enough to fill the sky. A belief that "we are union and a little better than you". A mentality that invites them to belong to an organization that employs bullying and scare tactics to both sign up and keep members. Members cannot be critical of anything that is union for fear of reprisals.
So here we are at a crossroad in history. Time for a lot of decisions to be made by a lot of people. Economies are falling. Spending and cost cutting must be done for everyone's sake except labor unions. Remember, they are a little better than all us other taxpayers.
I think the American public agrees in majority that we should bail out the auto industry ,if and only if, the companies and ALL their employees take substantial wage cuts to become competitive.
Right on Senator Shelby.
So here we are at a crossroad in history. Time for a lot of decisions to be made by a lot of people. Economies are falling. Spending and cost cutting must be done for everyone's sake except labor unions. Remember, they are a little better than all us other taxpayers.
I think the American public agrees in majority that we should bail out the auto industry ,if and only if, the companies and ALL their employees take substantial wage cuts to become competitive.
Right on Senator Shelby.
SHELBY STOOD HIS GROUND...HE HAS MY VOTE...
The truth is the Auto Worker makes a hell of a lot more per hour than most...
and they want me to bail them out...yea! right!
The truth is the Auto Worker makes a hell of a lot more per hour than most...
and they want me to bail them out...yea! right!
Shelby has my vote also.
Here's an interesting little article.
Four Big Lies about the Big Three Automakers
Link
Here's an interesting little article.
Four Big Lies about the Big Three Automakers
Link
quote:Originally posted by Zeb:
Please remember Shelby was against the auto bailout when it comes reelection time,remember he said these hard workers were overpaid and made a bad outdated product,remember this out of touch elitist assault on blue collar U.S.A.
Hard workers? You've got to be kidding me! You must have had one of these "hard working jobs" all of your life. More like, "hardly works." If you think they work any harder and deserve all the incredible benefits their unions extorted from now bankrupt companies, anymore than real hardworking Americans, then you are dumber than I first thought. 6 weeks paid vacations? Free health insurance? Can't be fired no matter how big of a screwup you are? Staggering retirement benefits? Why do you think Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been steadily moving their manufacturing overseas? Labor costs are killing them! A report I watched last night showed that GM and Toyota sold about the same number of vehicles last year. GM lost 38,000,000,000 dollars while Toyota made 17 billion dollars. That's a 55,000,000,000 dollar difference! Between the overpaid American CEO's and the greedy unions, how does one expect to recover from what they've done to themselves? I don't feel sorry for either party.
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Shelby is like a tick on a slow moving hound-dog. Hes a slug.
Shelby was like me. He started realizing HE WAS on a dog so he got off and left all of you slugs and ticks who are trying to suck the blood out of this country. Maybe you and zeb can keep on sucking but some of us still think that's wrong
quote:Originally posted by RoyceEarl.PeTree@yahoo.com:
I been around a long time. Sort of a "been there, done that" type person, but I am still amazed at union members position on anything union. Even though their membership has declined greatly in the past years, they continue to have an ego big enough to fill the sky. A belief that "we are union and a little better than you". A mentality that invites them to belong to an organization that employs bullying and scare tactics to both sign up and keep members. Members cannot be critical of anything that is union for fear of reprisals.
So here we are at a crossroad in history. Time for a lot of decisions to be made by a lot of people. Economies are falling. Spending and cost cutting must be done for everyone's sake except labor unions. Remember, they are a little better than all us other taxpayers.
I think the American public agrees in majority that we should bail out the auto industry ,if and only if, the companies and ALL their employees take substantial wage cuts to become competitive.
Right on Senator Shelby.
Shelby needs to take a pay cut.
quote:Originally posted by HiHO:quote:Originally posted by RoyceEarl.PeTree@yahoo.com:
I been around a long time. Sort of a "been there, done that" type person, but I am still amazed at union members position on anything union. Even though their membership has declined greatly in the past years, they continue to have an ego big enough to fill the sky. A belief that "we are union and a little better than you". A mentality that invites them to belong to an organization that employs bullying and scare tactics to both sign up and keep members. Members cannot be critical of anything that is union for fear of reprisals.
So here we are at a crossroad in history. Time for a lot of decisions to be made by a lot of people. Economies are falling. Spending and cost cutting must be done for everyone's sake except labor unions. Remember, they are a little better than all us other taxpayers.
I think the American public agrees in majority that we should bail out the auto industry ,if and only if, the companies and ALL their employees take substantial wage cuts to become competitive.
Right on Senator Shelby.
Shelby needs to take a pay cut.
Yes he does. Right along with the overpaid, over-compensated autoworkers and their CEOs. And just like the congressman said: GM and Toyota sold about the same number of vehicles last year. GM lost 38 billion dollars while Toyota made 17 billion dollars. That's a 55,000,000,000 dollar difference! Is it because of the low wages and puny benefits packages of the union workers or the $100 million dollar per year salaries of their clueless CEO's? I think any thinking person would say both.