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Hi to all my Friends,

PRAY FOR OUR MILITARY CHAPLAINS! -- Our very liberal, very secular CURRENT government has tied the "spiritual" hands and  feet of our military chaplains -- and, then asks them to serve the spiritual needs of those serving in our military.  As of today, our chaplains cannot teach what the Bible teaches -- that homosexuality is against the will of God.  Our chaplains are to pray -- but, NEVER, NEVER mention Jesus Christ.

And, the reason?  Our very liberal, very secular CURRENT government believes this will upset the atheists, Muslims, and those in other world religions.   But, let me ask you.  How many atheists, Muslims, Buddhist, etc. -- do you think WILL be attending the Christian worship services -- where the chaplains are NOT allowed to pray to Jesus?

If I were to attend a Muslim worship service -- I should not get offended if they pray to Allah.  So, why should anyone get offended if we Christians mention, pray to, and openly worship our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?

And, since our Bible, our sole authority, teaches that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God -- why should our military chaplains have their mouths gagged on this issue?   

Why?  Because our Hollywood infected, Far Left Liberal CURRENT (pray for 2012!) administration does not want to offend their Hollywood handlers.   Just my thoughts.

We need to pray for our military chaplains.  Imagine asking a soldier to go into combat WITHOUT his/her weapons.  Then, imagine asking our chaplains to go into "spiritual combat" without their main weapon -- prayer -- prayer to the only One who can protect our military people -- Jesus Christ, God!    

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

God-Bless-Our-Country

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PRAY FOR OUR MILITARY CHAPLAINS! -- Our very liberal, very secular CURRENT government has tied the "spiritual" hands and  feet of our military chaplains -- and, then asks them to serve the spiritual needs of those serving in our military.  As of today, our chaplains cannot teach what the Bible teaches -- that homosexuality is against the will of God.  Our chaplains are to pray -- but, NEVER, NEVER mention Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Got a link showing proof of that bill?

Retired Major Gen. John Altenberg, who was the No. 2 lawyer in the Army, disagrees. He says, for example, if a chaplain were uncomfortable counseling a *** soldier he could ask another chaplain to counsel him.

"They wouldn't be forced to do it," he says.

Dennis Camp, a retired colonel and Army chaplain for 27 years, says the proposed rules clearly protect a chaplain's religious rights. What chaplains can't do, he says, is act like "moral policemen" and openly condemn homosexuality. The chaplain's job is to serve everyone — religious or not, *** or straight. Camp says the objections raised by evangelicals are a smoke screen.

"They have made it an issue because they want to fight this thing on moral grounds," he says. "That's not the kind of fight it is. It's a civil rights issue."

But ultimately, even if don't ask, don't tell is repealed, evangelicals say they'll still supply chaplains because so many people in the armed forces come from conservative denominations.

 

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/09/...-don-t-ask-is-lifted

 

Everything else I found that supported Bills accusations came from religious sites. It is only the Evangelical Chaplains that are making these claims.  No one is forcing them to say or do anything against their religious beliefs.

 

I can't find ANYTHING that says they can't pray to Jesus Christ....Apparently it is just another attempt on Bill's part to lie and say the Christians are being persecuted.

 

quote: Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

A decent human being/chaplin wouldn't be preaching that homosexuality is a sin.


Hi Jennifer,

 

We have to look at the criteria you are using -- the secular world's -- or God's?  A decent Christian Bible-teaching Chaplain will most certainly be teaching the Bible, that homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22), a detestable act (Leviticus 20:13), degrading (Romans 1:26), unnatural (Romans 1:26), an indecent act (Romans 1:27), contrary to sound teaching (1 Timothy 1:10), and shall not inherit the kingdom of God, i.e., will not spend eternity in the presence of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). 

 

If a person choses a lifestyle not acceptable to God, that person has chosen to not spend eternity with God.  What is left?  Only hell.

 

So, what should a good chaplain be teaching?  He should be teaching the truth of the Bible -- the complete Bible.

 

But, he cannot -- for our Ultra Liberal, very secular White House has chosen to follow the world -- and to ignore things of God.  Our best bet?  Vote them out of office in 2012!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

So, what should a good chaplain be teaching?  He should be teaching the truth of the Bible -- the complete Bible.

 

But, he cannot -- for our Ultra Liberal, very secular White House has chosen to follow the world -- and to ignore things of God.  Our best bet?  Vote them out of office in 2012!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

 

As it should be. We are a secular nation. First and foremost is our Constitution. This is not an issue of religious rights. In America, God does not trump the rights of its citizens. You can not discriminate in the Military based on religion, race, creed, or sexual orientation. Its is a civil rights issue.

Hi Dark,

You tell us, "Everything else I found that supported Bill's accusations came from religious sites.  It is only the Evangelical Chaplains that are making these claims.  No one is forcing them to say or do anything against their religious beliefs."

Of course, the only place you will read about this miscarriage of justice is in Christian sources.  Everyone knows the Liberal Media will not print anything which would darken the character of their prince, Mr. Obama.  So, we go to Christian sources to find the truth.

Then, Dark, wearing your atheist spiritually dark glasses, declare, "I can't find ANYTHING that says they can't pray to Jesus Christ....Apparently it is just another attempt on Bill's part to lie and say the Christians are being persecuted."

Wow, imagine that!  A spiritually blind person -- who cannot see the beauty of God's sunset!

Let me give you a wee bit of help:


Amendment Would Let Military Chaplains Pray In Jesus' Name
May 27, 2010
http://blackchristiannews.com/...in-jesus-name-1.html


U.S, Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Minn.) introduced an amendment to the National Defense Authorization bill that would allow all  U.S. military chaplains, "if called upon to lead a prayer outside of a religious service, would be free to close that prayer according to the dictates of the chaplain's conscience."

The amendment would apply to the U.S. Army, Navy and Marine Corps, Air Force, Air Force Academy and Military Academy.

The Secular Coalition for America urged members of the House Armed Services Committee to reject the amendment"Rep. Bachmann's amendment would force the military to change their regulations and allow chaplains to invoke the religious figures of  their choice at official military events," the coalition said in a statement.

The coalition noted 2nd Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals ruling in 1985 (Katcoff v Marsh): "The primary function of the military chaplain  is to engage in activities designed to meet the religious needs of a pluralistic military community."


++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

"Rep. Bachmann's amendment would force the military to change their regulations and allow chaplains to invoke the religious figures  of their choice at official military events," the coalition said in a statement.

Gee, imagine that!  A CHRISTIAN chaplain would be allowed to speak about CHRIST!  How unfair -- that he would want to hold a Christian worship service -- and talk about Jesus Christ.  Wow!  The nerve of that guy!  Now, if he wanted to talk about Allah, Buddha, Laker's cheerleaders, Alabama football, etc. -- that is okay.  But, to have a sermon in a CHRISTIAN chapel service and speak about CHRIST -- what is that man thinking?

Other sources you may, or may not, want to read:


Another Bill About Military Chaplains Praying in Jesus' Name:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispat...bout_military_ch.php

Five Chaplains Lose Jobs for Praying 'In Jesus' Name

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/275958004.html

Chaplain who prayed 'in Jesus' name' convicted

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=37913

Prayer in Jesus’ name remains an issue in military chaplaincy

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=22630

 

Yes, people of the Christian faith are fighting a huge mountain of discrimination and prejudice.  But, to the secular world, this is not a problem, to them it is okay.  Do you think we can compare them to the rich plantation owners who OWNED hundreds of slaves in the Old South?  Do you think those plantation owners would have admitted that practice was wrong?

Of course not!  Doing that would have endangered their source of worldly wealth.  They even went to war to fight for their right to own other people.  Just as atheists and secularist will fight for their right to deny God.  And, their strange bedfellows, the vanilla-flavored non-believers will go along with whatever the atheist/secularists say -- for that gives them the courage to continue running from the God they know is real.

And, the secular world will never see anything wrong with their extreme prejudice against those of the Christian faith -- for our Christian faith endangers their worldly pleasures and desire.  Our Christian faith tells them that they should not be their own gods; but, should acknowledge the true God -- and this scares the pants off them.

But, for all my atheist, secularist, and vanilla-flavored non-believing Friends -- you STILL have time to turn from the world and to turn to follow Jesus Christ.  However, that offer does expire the moment you expire -- so, please do not waste this wonderful opportunity.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

A military jury today convicted a Navy chaplain of a misdemeanor count of disobeying his commanding officer for wearing his uniform while delivering a prayer "in Jesus' name" at an assembly in front of the White House.

"But I had prior written permission to wear my uniform if it was a religious observance, (so) prayers are not a religious observance," Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt told WND after the military court-martial recessed for the night.

"Therefore I disobeyed my commanding officer's order not to pray in uniform," he said.

Klingenschmitt, who raised immediate concerns with this superiors when the Navy issued a new order that prayers could only be "nonsectarian," also has alleged he was punished for raising those concerns, and later notifying Congress and President Bush of the situation.



Read more: Chaplain who prayed 'in Jesus' name' convicted http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=37913#ixzz1YjMl8Emu

 

 

Bill, you said this administration. You are being deceitful. Do you have a link, non-religious, that supports your claims?

From your link: Notice the date-Posted on Feb 10, 2006 | by Ken Walker

 

In settings that are essentially secular in nature, though -- such as a retirement or memorial ceremony attended by personnel of many faiths -- the Navy asks they be inclusive and offer non-sectarian prayers, Marks told the Post.

“If a chaplain can’t do that, he doesn’t have to,” Marks said. “We won’t force him to.”

Guidelines announced by the Air Force Feb. 9 also call for non-sectarian prayers in secular settings.

=====================================================================

Once more, do you have an up to date non-religious source for your claims?

Of course, the only place you will read about this miscarriage of justice is in Christian sources.  Everyone knows the Liberal Media will not print anything which would darken the character of their prince, Mr. Obama.  So, we go to Christian sources to find the truth.

 

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So bill, you're saying obama was president in 2000 AND when bush was in office? Obama was president in 2005, 2006?  When you get ready to post that truth let us know. This is low even for you.

Last edited by Bestworking

 

"if called upon to lead a prayer outside of a religious service, would be free to close that prayer according to the dictates of the chaplain's conscience."


Then Bill said...

"Gee, imagine that!  A CHRISTIAN chaplain would be allowed to speak about CHRIST!  How unfair -- that he would want to hold a Christian worship service -- and talk about Jesus Christ.  Wow!  The nerve of that guy!  Now, if he wanted to talk about Allah, Buddha, Laker's cheerleaders, Alabama football, etc. -- that is okay.  But, to have a sermon in a CHRISTIAN chapel service and speak about CHRIST -- what is that man thinking?"

 

No, they are allowed to talk about what ever they want to in their religious services and chapels.  If they are going to lead a prayer to a group of mixed religious Military personal it has to be a nonsectarian prayer. Not the same thing as you are implying here.  They are not forced to pray if they can not pray without invoking the name of a specific deity.  So it would not be ok if a Muslim Chaplain (Iman) invoked Allah either. However, in the actual religious services that he conducted he could Allah Akbar all over the place. Just as a Evangelical Chaplain can praise the lord all he wants in his chapel while conducting services. What Bachmann wants is to subject Military personal to unwanted proselytizing and have it be paid for by our tax dollars. That is unconstitutional.

 

But first  Bill said...

"As of today, our chaplains cannot teach what the Bible teaches -- that homosexuality is against the will of God.  Our chaplains are to pray -- but, NEVER, NEVER mention Jesus Christ."

 

That is a flat out lie. There are many Evangelical Chaplains that hold services weekly and do just that. They talk about, worship and lead prayer to Jesus Christ. They are Military officers so they do have to follow regulations, if doing so is a conflict with their religious beliefs they are free to leave. If they don't adhere to these regulations then they will be reprimanded as any other Military Officer or Personal would. Christianity does not get special treatment no matter how much you want it to. If that day comes then America will no longer be the land of the free and we will no longer be a democracy.

 

This also has nothing to do with our current government or President Obama. This has been an ongoing issue. The last major case that went before the supreme court ( Katcoff vs. Marsh) had this to say about the function and regulations of the Chaplaincy:

 

  • Military officials must fully accommodate the rights of service members to believe or not to believe in any particular religious doctrine (or even a Deity).
  • Military officials must ensure that service members are neither punished for their beliefs nor subjected to unwanted proselytizing or evangelizing from military chaplains or senior officers and noncommissioned officers, even if the proselytizing or evangelizing is intended as a good-faith effort to salvage the spiritual health of the service members.
  • Military officials may not subject members of the armed forces to involuntary worship or prayers, particularly when the full power of the government backed by punitive action under the UCMJ is employed to command their presence and participation.
  • Except when good order and military discipline are threatened, military officials may not discriminate against any particular religious sect or denomination, especially based upon the belief system of the sect or denomination.

 

 

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:

Wait, wait, wait one cotton-pickin' minute! Are y'all sayin' that the honorable and godly Bill Gray is perfectly willing to perjure himself before the Lord and is explicitly complicit in making a total ass of himself if it suits his distorted nitwittery???

_______________________________

Yep, I think that's what they're saying.

This isn't the first time Bill has perjured himself before the Lord. And it won't be the last time he makes a total ass of himself by trying to convince people he's a Christian.

Someone needs to tell Bill it takes more than talking the talk.

The chaplain who is the central figure in this matter was cited and convicted in 2006-2007, during the presidency of one George W. Bush.  Bill Gray seems not to have found this relevant, but if it had happened on President Obama's watch, what are the chances Bill would have made that screamingly plain?

 

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 I didn't devote a lot of time to it last night. I did look at bill's links when he finally posted them, and it seems like this goes back to the 90s. Obama is bad enough without adding things he didn't do, and I realize it can seem like he's been in office for 10 or 15 years.

quote: Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Overall it seems this is just another example that christians are liars and not very nice people.  There (sic) "bible" condones everything from slavery to murder, from oppression and terrorism to rape and bigotry.  I'm certainly glad those serving as chaplains in the military have some restraints they have to follow these days.

Hi Senior,

 

The TimesDaily, and ALL newspapers and news media, tell us daily about rapes, incest, murder, oppression, terrorism, slavery, bigotry, and many other evils that man does to man.  Does this mean that they condone and support such activities -- or that they are merely reporting what man is capable of doing?

 

Essentially, that is what God does in the Bible.  He present man in all his glory -- warts and all.  Then He shows man how to overcome this evil which has him enslaved -- and how to attain eternal life in Christ. 

 

So, you can choose to read the Bible as you want -- looking for and wallowing in man's evil -- or looking for God's grace, love, and promise of eternal life.  Which do you prefer?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

The TimesDaily, and ALL newspapers and news media, tell us daily about rapes, incest, murder, oppression, terrorism, slavery, bigotry, and many other evils that man does to man.  Does this mean that they condone and support such activities -- or that they are merely reporting what man is capable of doing?

 

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The bible reports what your god was doing. All the murder, incest, rape, oppression, terrorism, slavery, bigotry, and other evils he not only condoned-he ordered his followers to do. Forget that for now and tell us more stuff obama did before he was president.

This guy is exactly as I pictured him in my mind. 


 

 

Former Navy chaplain Gordon Klingenschmitt is quickly becoming the Religious Right’s latest phony martyr.

Klingenschmitt claims he was drummed out of the Navy because he wanted to pray in the name of Jesus. In fact, he got tossed out for being insubordinate.

All of this was too much for Klingenschmitt’s former boss. Capt. Norm Holcomb, command chaplain at Naval Station Norfolk in Virginia, sent an e-mail to the Kentucky House, giving every representative the facts about the Klingenschmitt controversy.

Holcomb’s message is very powerful, and reading it, one can sense the anger he feels that an officer who refused to follow orders is being treated like some kind of hero.

Holcomb also clarifies an important point: Klingenschmitt, despite what his defenders say, was not punished for praying in the name of Jesus. He was court-martialed for refusing to follow orders. It’s a simple as that.

“I was the dishonored ex-chaplain’s supervisor for the past 2 years,” Holcomb wrote in his message. “I found him to be totally untruthful, unethical and insubordinate. He was and is contemptuous of all authority. He was not court martialed for praying in Jesus’ name. I sent him out in uniform every week to pray at various ceremonies and functions. He always prayed in uniform and in Jesus’ name. He was never told that he could not pray in Jesus’ name. In fact, the issue of prayer had nothing at all to do with his dismissal from the Navy. He disobeyed the lawful order of a senior officer. I am sure that you understand that Navy Regulations forbid any of us, regardless of rank or position, to appear in uniform in support of any political or partisan event.”

Holcomb goes on to say, “He appeared in direct support of a political event, demonstrating contempt for the order of his Commanding Officer and Naval Regulations that we all swear that we will abide by…. The ex-chaplain is a man without honor and you have accepted his story and in doing so you have had ‘the wool pulled over your eyes.’

 

http://blog.au.org/2007/04/05/...lain-klingenschmitt/

 

 

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...ordon-klingenschmitt

 

Save it ditto. Bill's own links showed he was lying but you won't get any response from him about it, and I'm surprised he hasn't pulled this thread on the grounds "it became a spitting contest and christian attack fest".  So far he has chosen the other thing he does-ignore it until everyone forgets about it then pretend it didn't happen.

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