quote:  Originally Posted by Jennifer:

High five crusty. If the contradictions in the bible could be explained, which they can't, you'd think by now someone could have done it. 


Hi Jennifer,

 

If you have the honesty to visit the web site: 


http://www.apologeticspress.or...edDiscrepancies.aspx

 

You will find a valid explanation of many, many of your so called discrepancies.  However, maybe you prefer to just keep yelling "God is not real!  God is not real!" -- while at the same time you will not even look to see if He is truly real.   In other words, you hide your head deeply in the sands of atheism and refuse to even look for Truth.

 

Regarding your other post where you supposedly have found, on some atheist web site, Scripture verses which prove that God is evil -- instead of trying to respond to all of your rants -- let me offer you a challenge.  If you will pick a verse or passage, tell me what you believe it is saying -- I will give you my interpretation of what I believe it means.  

 

That sounds fair to me.  How about you?  Or will you just burrow your head deeper in your sands of atheism, declaring, "I don't have time to bother with your silly suggestion!" -- which in reality means, "I am afraid you will show me to be wrong."    

 

Jennifer, I look forward to dialoguing with you on any verse or passage you choose.  And, then, you can choose another and we will do the same for it.  Are you ready to seek the Truth?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by gbrk:


Do you not know who that was written to and for what reason?  It was written to Israel as directions to God's people for governing themselves in that specific time period for that specific people.  ARE you trying to imply that because that appears in the Scripture that it applies to today?  I know you both are more intelligent than that. 



So EXACTLY what tools of reason do you use to determine what verses to abide by and which to ignore?  You use plenty in the Old Testament as justification for your intolerance such as anti-homosecuality, the 10 Commandments, eye-for-eye and so forth.

Genesis was written for people who knew nothing about cosmology, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics.  Yes you insist that it is the literal, inerrant word of God-a-mighty and outright refuse to even ponder anything that contradicts.  So why don't us your your same "logic" to refute Deuteronomy as you do for Genesis?

There is only ONE tool which Christians use to receive and abide by God's specific directions and by which we glean spiritual meaning from scripture and that took, if you wish to call it that, is God's Holy Spirit that is given freely to each and every true Christian believer and Saint of God.  Jesus promised that Holy Spirit in John 14 and God baptized each true believer at the moment of their true conversion and salvation through Christ Jesus.  It's being born again (spiritually) not bodily.  Spiritually and not physically, it's a profound substantial change of heart, mind, and direction of life such that people change overnight in a seconds time, the blink of an eye.  Such a change that it is no less than miraculous and indis****bly (to the person/believer) of and by God.  As for what to abide by or what is relevant to today and the past that comes through reading the book.  Some is evident from the reading for it says who it's being written to.  If it is not written to us then it isn't for us.  If it is written to Israel then it's to Jews not to Gentiles.  There are many things that are revealed, by God, through His Holy Spirit also.

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

You reached your limit? Well la de da. I didn't post on that thread now did I? My limit came when you kept asking the same question over and over about why we come to this forum, even though we had answered it. Then you proceed to get snarky and pretend you don't know what I mean when I told you how the forum had been previously titled. You kept posting and posting about how YOU hadn't seen it titled that way. So what if YOU didn't see it, it was what it was. Then you start to demand "proof".  If you want proof you can wade through all the old threads and posts, I'm certainly not going to do it for you.  You think you're playing some clever game but all you're doing is making yourself look very silly and immature. What you claim is our "hatred" is a loss of patience with you because you insist on acting, and it is an act I hope, naive (to put it politely).

What I meant by reached my limit was that I was not going to attempt to be political any longer but rather speak up and confront disrespectful actions of some atheist.  i was going to attempt to do all I could to reveal those actions as disrespectful and for what they were.  That is what I meant by reaching my limit.  As another poster said about turning the other cheek, so to say, I decided that I would no longer allow disrespect to go unaddressed.  Some of the atheist say they call BS on our statements ( which is really opinions so their opinions somehow are better than another members).  I will no longer allow these unprovoked personal attacks against Christians to go unaddressed. 

 

If the reason is to cause disruption and disrespect then it should be recognized for what it is.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Long time lurker.  Time to jump in.  Hopefully on the side of civil, intelligent debate....with both eyes open.

Take a look for yourself.  Then, do as I did -- and bookmark it.  You will find it useful the next time an atheist or other non-believing Friend declares the Bible to be full of discrepancies. 

This resource will only be useful (at least parts of it) if you equate non-believing with non-Church of Christ, or any other flavor that believes in the necessity of Baptism for salvation.


http://www.apologeticspress.org/AllegedDiscrepancies.aspx?article=806

 

This is IMHO one of the more significant parts of the problem.  One man's "There it is in black and white" is another man's "You're taking it out of context/reading it wrong"

 

Of course the bible is full of discrepancies.  To state otherwise would be to ignore the fact that ]there are hundreds, if not thousands of different interpretations [read: Denominations] some more inclusive/exclusive than others.





 

Of course it is gbrk. I read too many atheistic forums to not know their battle plan is to be nasty to Christians. They are nuts. They all have personal vendettas against some sin in the Bible of some special misery they blame on the democratic way things are done.

Unoi for instance rails against not being able to buy alcohol from likker stores on Sunday.

It’s like being water boarded to him; the thought he can’t get it 24 hrs aday.

I’m sure he buys extra but his thought process is: my god what if I drink my Sunday supply all up on Saturday. That thought is un-nerving to imbibers.

Others are the occasion that sexual opportunities might arise counter to societal norms when gauged against religion. Beastism, fornication adultery etc. I could drag this mentality out forever. You get the point.

Originally Posted by O No!:

 Yet when atheists ask US a question and we answer it, they NEVER accept the answer. 

 

You all generally completly ignore out pointed questions and, yes, when you do answer, the answer makes no sense.  Case in point, GB stated that the murderous God of Deuteronomy was maing rules for the people who lived at the time and those rules no longer applied.  That is a BS answer, of course, but to get him (and you?) to reaslise that I asked: 

 

"So EXACTLY what tools of reason do you use to determine what verses to abide by and which 

(no longer apply)   Genesis was written for people who knew nothing about cosmology, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics.  Yes you insist that it is the literal, inerrant word of God-a-mighty and outright refuse to even ponder anything that contradicts.  So why don't us your your same "logic" to refute Deuteronomy as you do for Genesis? "

GB was unsurprisingly mute on this question as I knew he would be,  How about you? 

As for Ram's post those are his comments why should you expect I would love them?  If though you wish my comment on his post it's this. WE agree that the motive of some/many atheist posting under the topic of Religion is due to some personal combat or agenda against Christianity or any Religion and if those who practice it or believe in it get in the way then so be it. 


As for his assertion that "they are nuts" and the other statements you will note that he says he made the observation and statement from his reading from within atheist forums.  Since I don't go into them or care to I can't say what he says is incorrect because I do not have any basis to say it's false or that they are true.  I don't go in there and it is his  personal opinion.  I say what I believe it works that way.  He doesn't tell me what to say and I don't tell him.


As for his statement about Uno again I don't know Uno except from interaction on the forum.  I would not say that from what I know of uno, based on from here, and those were his (Ram's) words not mine so I will not comment on uno and what Ram said one way or the other as that is between them. 


As for the premise that some atheist have aggression against Christians or Christianity because of some stance on sin or some words they have heard from a Christian or read in the Bible I do believe that is possible.  There must be some reason for the apparent hostility that often comes out in the words that are posted.  Whether it be Homosexuality, Alcohol, Sex, Pride, whatever no one likes to be judged by another person so it's possible that someone's anger or aggression is triggered because of another Christian that had nothing to do with the original cause.  AS I said in another post I do believe there is some reason behind all the insults and feelings about Christians and Churches or other Religions. 


So now that I have commented on it why would you even wonder what I would think about a post from Ram?

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:

 Yet when atheists ask US a question and we answer it, they NEVER accept the answer. 

 

You all generally completly ignore out pointed questions and, yes, when you do answer, the answer makes no sense.  Case in point, GB stated that the murderous God of Deuteronomy was maing rules for the people who lived at the time and those rules no longer applied.  That is a BS answer, of course, but to get him (and you?) to reaslise that I asked: 

 

"So EXACTLY what tools of reason do you use to determine what verses to abide by and which 

(no longer apply)   Genesis was written for people who knew nothing about cosmology, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics.  Yes you insist that it is the literal, inerrant word of God-a-mighty and outright refuse to even ponder anything that contradicts.  So why don't us your your same "logic" to refute Deuteronomy as you do for Genesis? "

GB was unsurprisingly mute on this question as I knew he would be,  How about you? 

Just in case you missed it I will repeat what I replied with at 1:54PM today.  Wow y'all are so expecting that we have to reply within a set period of time or you assume we either don't want to answer or will not answer.   Here is what I posted to you BEFORE you made your statement that I didn't respond:

 

There is only ONE tool which Christians use to receive and abide by God's specific directions and by which we glean spiritual meaning from scripture and that took, if you wish to call it that, is God's Holy Spirit that is given freely to each and every true Christian believer and Saint of God.  Jesus promised that Holy Spirit in John 14 and God baptized each true believer at the moment of their true conversion and salvation through Christ Jesus.  It's being born again (spiritually) not bodily.  Spiritually and not physically, it's a profound substantial change of heart, mind, and direction of life such that people change overnight in a seconds time, the blink of an eye.  Such a change that it is no less than miraculous and indis****bly (to the person/believer) of and by God.  As for what to abide by or what is relevant to today and the past that comes through reading the book.  Some is evident from the reading for it says who it's being written to.  If it is not written to us then it isn't for us.  If it is written to Israel then it's to Jews not to Gentiles.  There are many things that are revealed, by God, through His Holy Spirit also.

 

See uno I give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see it or read it.  I know you wouldn't say something so crazy so I repeated it.  You ask a question and I answered ...  unsurprisingly ummm .. no reply expected.  Again either read above or go to my post back to you responding at 1:54 PM earlier. 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:

 Yet when atheists ask US a question and we answer it, they NEVER accept the answer. 

 

You all generally completly ignore out pointed questions and, yes, when you do answer, the answer makes no sense.  Case in point, GB stated that the murderous God of Deuteronomy was maing rules for the people who lived at the time and those rules no longer applied.  That is a BS answer, of course, but to get him (and you?) to reaslise that I asked: 

 

"So EXACTLY what tools of reason do you use to determine what verses to abide by and which 

(no longer apply)   Genesis was written for people who knew nothing about cosmology, geology, astrophysics and quantum physics.  Yes you insist that it is the literal, inerrant word of God-a-mighty and outright refuse to even ponder anything that contradicts.  So why don't us your your same "logic" to refute Deuteronomy as you do for Genesis? "

GB was unsurprisingly mute on this question as I knew he would be,  How about you? 


Because Genisis is telling us what HAPPENED. Deuteronomy is telling the JEWS what to DO. I have said over and over and over again, you can't take the Bible out of context and expect it to make sense, any more than you can any other book. You refuse to accept that answer and keep asking the same old questions, trying to "trap" Christians. I have told you over and over and over again that unless one has the Holy Spirit residing within, one will not be able to resolve any questions one might have about spiritual things in general, but you won't accept that anser either.  Face it, you don't WANT honest answers, you want to disrupt, insult, and ridicule Christians. That is ALL. And the Bible warns us that there will be people whose main goal is doing just that. So we are prepared for you.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

And another reason we are mad:

Not ALL Christians, not me, and most if not all on this forum believed that.  I haven't said that uno was going ....... or that you would suffer such and such a punishment.   I have said that I fully believe that everyone (Christian and non) will be judged by God at a future date and time after our death and based upon our acts, actions, and either acceptance or rejection of Jesus Christ as our advocate against sin, as our Savior.  Is that threatening to you?     You understand hypothetical I'm sure so if someone knows something about a bridge being out is it a threat to warn people not to drive over the bridge?  No one is forcing their opinion or belief on you.  So why take your anger at whatever or whoever on US who are trying to post on the forum to other Christians.  You have a problem with someone specific then identify who and why and hash it out but don't lump us all into the same group.  That is not reasonable, just, or right.   I don't do it to you and I request the same.  I've told you I didn't appreciate your post into the subject I created to discuss scripture which if your first response to my confrontation to you about it had stood it would have been sufficient but you kept on so I had a problem with you disrupting the subject I was trying to be serious about starting. 

 

As for Islam or their radical sect I too wish that they were reasonable but I don't hold it against all Muslims.  Many or most are not like that and I would welcome any Muslim here as well to discuss/debate topics of religion or common interest  If though they come in being disrespectful of other participants and what they believe then I would object to that as well. 

Originally Posted by O No!:
 


Because Genisis is telling us what HAPPENED. Deuteronomy is telling the JEWS what to DO.

 

 

We don't accept your answer becasue THEY MAKE NO SENSE. 

 

I see.  So you are now a Creationist?  And should the Jews continue to do as they were told by the Lord?  The laws against homosexuality, adultery, murder and stealing should or should not stay and exactly what logic do you use in determining what to obey or not?

 

Then you say, " I have told you over and over and over again that unless one has the Holy Spirit residing within" and once again, you've got some splainin to do,  You evidently must have "spiritual discernment" to understand the bible (which I THOUGHT I used to have but according to you I did not).  So exactly how does one go about getting this discernment without having discernment ?  As a former militant atheist yourself, i'm sure you can tell us a logical way to gain discernment when you think it is all BS,  I await. 


Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:

Sounds like somebody believes that the "Holy Spirit" actually speaks to them. Get a rubber room ready for this lunatic!

Jimi there are times when you seem to speak about something you don't have the slightest idea about.  This is definitely one of them.  There are many interpretations about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and I would caution about any statements concerning the Holy Spirit but do as you feel free to it's your choice.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:
 


Because Genisis is telling us what HAPPENED. Deuteronomy is telling the JEWS what to DO.

 

 

We don't accept your answer becasue THEY MAKE NO SENSE. 

 

I see.  So you are now a Creationist?  And should the Jews continue to do as they were told by the Lord?  The laws against homosexuality, adultery, murder and stealing should or should not stay and exactly what logic do you use in determining what to obey or not?

 

Then you say, " I have told you over and over and over again that unless one has the Holy Spirit residing within" and once again, you've got some splainin to do,  You evidently must have "spiritual discernment" to understand the bible (which I THOUGHT I used to have but according to you I did not).  So exactly how does one go about getting this discernment without having discernment ?  As a former militant atheist yourself, i'm sure you can tell us a logical way to gain discernment when you think it is all BS,  I await. 



What the Jews do is between them and God. None of my business. When Christ died for our sins, all of the rules changed. While the Old Testament has instructions for the Jews, and it has history and wisdom for all, the only "rules" we have to abide by now are the ones Jesus gave us.

 

Your last paragraph is a bit difficult to decipher. What exactly are you saying *I* think is all BS?

 

But if you are asking how to get the Holy Spirit to come into your heart so you will have guidance in SPIRITUAL MATTERS, all you have to do is ask sincerely. And please note, I NEVER said one needs the Holy Spirit to understand what the Bible says. I said one needs the Holy Spirit for guidance in spiritual matters. There is a difference you know.

 

As for our answers not making any sense to you, well, perhaps if you ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit, you will understand.

 

But just who do *I* ask for guidance to understand your reasons for constantly insulting people of faith? Your flying spaghetti monster?

 

Nah, I'll ask the Holy Spirit. And I've already gotten the answer. (And no, I won't share that answer here - you wouldn't like it.)

 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:
 


Because Genisis is telling us what HAPPENED. Deuteronomy is telling the JEWS what to DO.

 

 

We don't accept your answer becasue THEY MAKE NO SENSE. 

 

I see.  So you are now a Creationist?  And should the Jews continue to do as they were told by the Lord?  The laws against homosexuality, adultery, murder and stealing should or should not stay and exactly what logic do you use in determining what to obey or not?

 

Then you say, " I have told you over and over and over again that unless one has the Holy Spirit residing within" and once again, you've got some splainin to do,  You evidently must have "spiritual discernment" to understand the bible (which I THOUGHT I used to have but according to you I did not).  So exactly how does one go about getting this discernment without having discernment ?  As a former militant atheist yourself, i'm sure you can tell us a logical way to gain discernment when you think it is all BS,  I await. 


Forgive the length of the post but Scripture speaks for itself:  You receive the Holy Spirit as a free gift from God at the point of your Salvation when you respond to the Holy Spirit's conviction revealing the spiritual significance of your need due to man's sin nature and understanding the significance of Jesus Christ sacrifice on the Cross being our atoning sacrifice for our sins (past/present/future).

 

John 14:15 (NIV)
15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.   

John 14:16 (NIV)
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--   

John 14:17 (NIV)
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.   

John 14:18 (NIV)
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.   

John 14:19 (NIV)
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.   

John 14:20 (NIV)
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.  

Acts 1:5 (NIV)
5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."   

Acts 8:17 (NIV)
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.   

Acts 19:2 (NIV)
2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"  They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."   

Acts 19:3 (NIV)
3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"  "John's baptism," they replied.   

Acts 19:4 (NIV)
4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."   

Acts 19:6 (NIV)
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.   

Romans 1:4 (NIV)
4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.   

Romans 8:1 (NLT)
1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.  

Romans 8:2 (NLT)
2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.  

Romans 8:3 (NLT)
3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.  

Romans 8:4 (NLT)
4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit. 

Romans 8:5 (NLT)
5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.  

Romans 8:6 (NLT)
6 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. 

Romans 8:7 (NLT)
7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. 


Romans 8:8 (NLT)
8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. 

Romans 8:9 (NLT)
9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)  

Romans 8:10 (NLT)
10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.  

Romans 8:11 (NLT)
11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.  

Romans 8:12 (NLT)
12 Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.  

Romans 8:13 (NLT)
13 For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live.  

Romans 8:14 (NLT)
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 

1 Corinthians 2:10 (CEV)
10 God's Spirit has shown you everything. His Spirit finds out everything, even what is deep in the mind of God.   

1 Corinthians 2:11 (CEV)
11 You are the only one who knows what is in your own mind, and God's Spirit is the only one who knows what is in God's mind.   

1 Corinthians 2:12 (CEV)
12 But God has given us his Spirit. That's why we don't think the same way that the people of this world think. That's also why we can recognize the blessings that God has given us.  

1 Corinthians 2:13 (CEV)
13 Every word we speak was taught to us by God's Spirit, not by human wisdom. And this same Spirit helps us teach spiritual things to spiritual people.   

1 Corinthians 2:14 (CEV)
14 That's why only someone who has God's Spirit can understand spiritual blessings. Anyone who doesn't have God's Spirit thinks these blessings are foolish.   

1 Corinthians 3:16 (NIV)
16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?   

1 Corinthians 6:19 (NIV)
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;  

2 Corinthians 3:3 (NIV)
3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.   

Ephesians 1:13 (NIV)
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,   

Ephesians 2:18 (NIV)
18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.   

Ephesians 2:22 (NIV)
22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.   

Ephesians 3:20 (NIV)
20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,   

Ephesians 4:30 (NIV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.  

1 Thessalonians 4:7 (NIV)
7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.  
8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.     

The Holy Spirit (God the Holy Spirit) is a Gift of God the Father upon salvation (acceptance of Jesus Christ sacrifice for each of us.  We are to believe and accept Christ as His sacrifice is/was the atonement for our sins.  There is Water baptism to symbolize that we have been saved and identify us with Christ Jesus and as a testimony of our new life in Christ but Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes from God at the moment of our Salvation.  That point comes when God the Holy Spirit opens your spiritual eyes revealing your spiritual need for salvation.

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by gbrk:

 

See uno I give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see it or read it.  I know you wouldn't say something so crazy so I repeated it.  You ask a question and I answered ...  unsurprisingly ummm .. no reply expected.  Again either read above or go to my post back to you responding at 1:54 PM earlier. 

GB, lie Bill's rambling posts, you go on far too long so, no, I didn't read all your post so, yes, I missed  this answer.

And you are right, I don't accept it.  I am certain that you and Ono could go through the bible and come up with disagreements on all sorts of laws.  In fact, I bet your disagreements would be about the same number of disagreements you'd have with an atheist over moral issues,

Example, I bet Ono supports *** marriage.  You almost certainty do not.  Ono accepts the overwhelming evidence for evolution, you absolutely do not. Ono does not accept the "Once saved, always saved" but I bet you do and if you don't, Bill certainly does.

And you all three possess this gift of "spiritual discernment" that you both insist I do not have and never had.

So how can it be that you both have this give to "properly" interpret the bible yet you both disagree over such important matters?  I know the answer here.  Do you? 

Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
What the Jews do is between them and God. None of my business.

 

Ah yes.  That is similar to what the Pope said to one of Hitler's henchmen.  "Do what you want to their bodies . Their souls belong to God."

No, Ono, we as a race should care about these people just as they would care about us.  The inhumane treatment they received from people that believe just like you is inexcusable.  What I quoted from Deuteronomy was just as horrid then as it is now.  Your god that you love so much actually demanded that entire cities be destroyed, all the womane kidnapped and babies thrown against the rocks.

There is no amount of "spiritual discernment" that will make that any less repugnant. 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
What the Jews do is between them and God. None of my business.

 

Ah yes.  That is similar to what the Pope said to one of Hitler's henchmen.  "Do what you want to their bodies . Their souls belong to God."

No, Ono, we as a race should care about these people just as they would care about us.  The inhumane treatment they received from people that believe just like you is inexcusable.  What I quoted from Deuteronomy was just as horrid then as it is now.  Your god that you love so much actually demanded that entire cities be destroyed, all the womane kidnapped and babies thrown against the rocks.

There is no amount of "spiritual discernment" that will make that any less repugnant. 


Wow, you sure do know how to twist someone's words, don't you? Because I am not Jewish and don't choose to try to explain their faith, suddenly I am another Hitler?! Keeping my nose out of their religion means I want them to have inhumane treatment? Are you THAT desperate to make a point that you will twist what a Christian says to make them look like the bad guy, even when they never said any such thing?

 

If you think that "we as a race should care about these people" (and I'm not saying we shouldn't ), why is it that in my Faith and Patriotism thread, you basically said that everyone should get a job. Don't YOU care about the elderly and the sick? *I* think the inhumane treatment THEY are getting from people who believe just like YOU do is inexcusable.

 

I do know one thing though - no amount of spiritual discernment will make people who intentionally misunderstand, twist people's words, insult ,and try to debase my Lord, any less repugnant.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
What the Jews do is between them and God. None of my business.

 

Ah yes.  That is similar to what the Pope said to one of Hitler's henchmen.  "Do what you want to their bodies . Their souls belong to God."

No, Ono, we as a race should care about these people just as they would care about us.  The inhumane treatment they received from people that believe just like you is inexcusable.  What I quoted from Deuteronomy was just as horrid then as it is now.  Your god that you love so much actually demanded that entire cities be destroyed, all the womane kidnapped and babies thrown against the rocks.

There is no amount of "spiritual discernment" that will make that any less repugnant. 

================unoi

you think it is ok for a mother to kill her baby. You don't make me want to be atheistic.

No amount of atheistic descernment makes that less repugnant.

You advocate ripping l'il babies apart while they are alive and kicking.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
... I bet Ono supports *** marriage.  You almost certainty do not.  Ono accepts the overwhelming evidence for evolution, you absolutely do not. Ono does not accept the "Once saved, always saved" but I bet you do and if you don't, Bill certainly does.


And you all three possess this gift of "spiritual discernment" that you both insist I do not have and never had.

So how can it be that you both have this give to "properly" interpret the bible yet you both disagree over such important matters? ...

I would enjoy and answer to this too please. Since it's often stated in this forum that we atheists cannot understand Christians and their god for apparently lacking a the magic of the Holy Ghost and are spiritually blind and all that. I too wonder how people supposedly indwelled and guided by the Holy Spirit on spiritual matters cannot agree on God's words on how we should behave. Apologies, if this is already answered and lost in some punishing rant.

Originally Posted by Rramnlimnn_TheGreat:

gbrk, unoi ignores me so ask him how it feels to have with intent blasphemed the HOLY GHOST.

I was just wondering if he wakes up with night sweats regretting what he done.

Ask him gbrk.

Your post is copied above so unless I'm ignored it should be readable.  I was not aware that the ignore feature had been reinstated on the forums.  Where is it at?

It HAS been answered before, but here it is again: Our God is a PERSONAL God. He is my best friend, and when the Holy Spirit tells me do do something, He is not telling GB, or Bill, or anyone else - just me. The Holy Spirit and the Bible BOTH tell me it is not my place to judge others, and while God doesn't like homosexuality, He doesn't like other sins either. I can tell you He dislikes atheism even more, but I will not judge atheists or g a y s or anyone else.

 

Other Christians may not get the same message. It is MY job to do certain things on this earth while I am here, and the jobs of other people to do other things. Maybe it is the job of someone else to try to prevent g a y marriage, but it is not mine.

 

I accept BOTH the Bible and evolution. I believe that one of God's "days" was a WHOLE lot longer than our days. Some people may not have gotten that message. They may have gotten a different message having to do with whatever it is God wants them to do in their time here on earth.

 

I don't believe in "once saved, always saved" because although God would never take away the gift of Jesus, there are some who willingly throw it away. I don't think GB believes in it either, although as we all know, Bill does.

 

We DO all have jobs to do here, and our Lord provides us with the tools and the knowledge to do those jobs. I may get a phillips head and a blueprint of one part of the machine, while GB might get a wrench and a blueprint of a different part. I think He gave Bill a hammer but I can't judge him or how he uses it because I have not seen the blueprints he was given.

 

I know you want to cause an argument between Christians, but it won't work. We each have things we must do with the understanding we have been given, but as long as what we are doing is being done for God, it doesn't matter whether or not we agree with what EACH OTHER is doing. It'll all turn out gloriously beautiful in the end.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

 

See uno I give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see it or read it.  I know you wouldn't say something so crazy so I repeated it.  You ask a question and I answered ...  unsurprisingly ummm .. no reply expected.  Again either read above or go to my post back to you responding at 1:54 PM earlier. 

GB, lie Bill's rambling posts, you go on far too long so, no, I didn't read all your post so, yes, I missed  this answer.

And you are right, I don't accept it.  I am certain that you and Ono could go through the bible and come up with disagreements on all sorts of laws.  In fact, I bet your disagreements would be about the same number of disagreements you'd have with an atheist over moral issues,

Example, I bet Ono supports *** marriage.  You almost certainty do not.  Ono accepts the overwhelming evidence for evolution, you absolutely do not. Ono does not accept the "Once saved, always saved" but I bet you do and if you don't, Bill certainly does.

And you all three possess this gift of "spiritual discernment" that you both insist I do not have and never had.

So how can it be that you both have this give to "properly" interpret the bible yet you both disagree over such important matters?  I know the answer here.  Do you? 

You never accept our statements regarding the Bible but you ask so I'll answer.  God gives unto those Christians who ask and seek spiritual discernment from the Scriptures.  Any Christian should be willing to admit that God may have a special message or will for one person that differs from the other.  Additionally different Christians, in their spiritual lives grow at different rates.  Even Paul acknowledged that he could talk about some topics with some people and not with others because of their Spiritual maturity so no every Christian will believe alike. 

 

While this can, and at times, does cause dissension among the believers it should not for Romans 14 addresses Christians different beliefs but instructs all Christians to live in Love.  Disagreements in interpretation of Scripture is why you see a lot of different denominations.  Being HUMAN is why there are many disagreements and dissensions between Christians.  Christians are not perfect by accepting Christ even though in God's eyes as far as our sins we appear as perfect which means we are not judged for our sins.  Christians are not perfect in reality or the flesh but we are forgiven..  Being forgiven and the Holy Spirit's presence is what separates Christians from everyone else that is Human and subject to the same human flaws.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
What the Jews do is between them and God. None of my business.

 

Ah yes.  That is similar to what the Pope said to one of Hitler's henchmen.  "Do what you want to their bodies . Their souls belong to God."

No, Ono, we as a race should care about these people just as they would care about us.  The inhumane treatment they received from people that believe just like you is inexcusable.  What I quoted from Deuteronomy was just as horrid then as it is now.  Your god that you love so much actually demanded that entire cities be destroyed, all the womane kidnapped and babies thrown against the rocks.

There is no amount of "spiritual discernment" that will make that any less repugnant. 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news for you and the other atheist who plan on using this as an excuse not to believe.  If God exist, as we proclaim to you He does, and after death you do appear before God I can assure you that saying you are evil or that you killed all those people so I couldn't accept  you is not going to fly.   That same ole excuse is used by atheist world wide and I'm fairly sure some atheist somewhere has a patient or trademark on it.    You have a hard time understanding that it takes the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual significance in the Scriptures but you cannot seem to comprehend the historical text as written.  I suggest you and others see what you want to see to justify your non-belief or rejection of God.

Originally Posted by Rramnlimnn_TheGreat:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by O No!:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
What the Jews do is between them and God. None of my business.

 

Ah yes.  That is similar to what the Pope said to one of Hitler's henchmen.  "Do what you want to their bodies . Their souls belong to God."

No, Ono, we as a race should care about these people just as they would care about us.  The inhumane treatment they received from people that believe just like you is inexcusable.  What I quoted from Deuteronomy was just as horrid then as it is now.  Your god that you love so much actually demanded that entire cities be destroyed, all the womane kidnapped and babies thrown against the rocks.

There is no amount of "spiritual discernment" that will make that any less repugnant. 

================unoi

you think it is ok for a mother to kill her baby. You don't make me want to be atheistic.

No amount of atheistic descernment makes that less repugnant.

You advocate ripping l'il babies apart while they are alive and kicking.

Actually that's a very astute point.  Many atheist care not the least about the unborn being aborted and killed and many in any state before birth yet they want to accuse God of being cruel?  I'm curious to see how they respond to this one?

Originally Posted by gbrk:

I think it's more that they are jilted because God doesn't come down from Heaven and appear in front of their very eyes.  They further are enraged that these simpleton Christians might actually have some contact and something from God that they don't have and cannot realize. 


Think about it Ram,   from a psychological standpoint and view anyone that is effected by some form of jealousy usually manifest that emotion, eventually, in anger or some form of anger such as verbal or potentially, eventually physical as for relationships.  On here though we see manifestations of anger in the form of insults since really there is no other way to voice anger and aggression.  From Scripture we understand also that anger is a result of being led by the fleshly nature rather than being led by the Holy Spirit of Christ.. 


This is why they are so opposed to Scripture.  Not because we consider it the Word of God but because it IS the Word of God and the very words of scripture convicts them of their actions.  If it was truly a case of non-belief then they would never mention it twice but ignore it.  Because though it strikes a note, a chord, within their inner spirit/mind they abhor it, they find it offensive for it effects them because it cuts to the bone.  No there are reasons for the insults and they are the same now as they were in Christ day.  The exact same motivation creates the inner aggression which is fed and amplified by anger.  So enjoy the insults for Christ and the Disciples suffered the same in Christ Name. 


Sorry GBRK, I like you, but this is psychobabel of the worst kind.

Originally Posted by O No!:

It HAS been answered before, but here it is again: Our God is a PERSONAL God. He is my best friend, and when the Holy Spirit tells me do do something, He is not telling GB, or Bill, or anyone else - just me. The Holy Spirit and the Bible BOTH tell me it is not my place to judge others, and while God doesn't like homosexuality, He doesn't like other sins either. I can tell you He dislikes atheism even more, but I will not judge atheists or g a y s or anyone else.

 

Other Christians may not get the same message. It is MY job to do certain things on this earth while I am here, and the jobs of other people to do other things. Maybe it is the job of someone else to try to prevent g a y marriage, but it is not mine.

 

I accept BOTH the Bible and evolution. I believe that one of God's "days" was a WHOLE lot longer than our days. Some people may not have gotten that message. They may have gotten a different message having to do with whatever it is God wants them to do in their time here on earth.

 

I don't believe in "once saved, always saved" because although God would never take away the gift of Jesus, there are some who willingly throw it away. I don't think GB believes in it either, although as we all know, Bill does.

 

We DO all have jobs to do here, and our Lord provides us with the tools and the knowledge to do those jobs. I may get a phillips head and a blueprint of one part of the machine, while GB might get a wrench and a blueprint of a different part. I think He gave Bill a hammer but I can't judge him or how he uses it because I have not seen the blueprints he was given.

 

I know you want to cause an argument between Christians, but it won't work. We each have things we must do with the understanding we have been given, but as long as what we are doing is being done for God, it doesn't matter whether or not we agree with what EACH OTHER is doing. It'll all turn out gloriously beautiful in the end.

Excellent Post O No I will only add a scripture to it:

 

Romans 12:1-14 (NLT)
1 And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him.
2 Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.
3 Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don’t think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us.
4 Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function,
5 so it is with Christ’s body. We are many parts of one body, and we all belong to each other.
6 In his grace, God has given us different gifts for doing certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out with as much faith as God has given you.
7 If your gift is serving others, serve them well. If you are a teacher, teach well.
8 If your gift is to encourage others, be encouraging. If it is giving, give generously. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibility seriously. And if you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly.
9 Don’t just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good.
10 Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other.
11 Never be lazy, but work hard and serve the Lord enthusiastically.
12 Rejoice in our confident hope. Be patient in trouble, and keep on praying.
13 When God’s people are in need, be ready to help them. Always be eager to practice hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you. Don’t curse them; pray that God will bless them.

Originally Posted by O No!:

...I know you want to cause an argument between Christians, but it won't work. We each have things we must do with the understanding we have been given, but as long as what we are doing is being done for God, it doesn't matter whether or not we agree with what EACH OTHER is doing. It'll all turn out gloriously beautiful in the end.

Thanks for the answer O.

 

As to your allegation of wanting to cause arguments between Christians, oh come on. You believe in the atheist conspiracy stuff too? You guys hate on each other so much better when we're not around. We're catching the blame for Christian-on-Christian disagreements too? DANG

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

I think it's more that they are jilted because God doesn't come down from Heaven and appear in front of their very eyes.  They further are enraged that these simpleton Christians might actually have some contact and something from God that they don't have and cannot realize. 


Think about it Ram,   from a psychological standpoint and view anyone that is effected by some form of jealousy usually manifest that emotion, eventually, in anger or some form of anger such as verbal or potentially, eventually physical as for relationships.  On here though we see manifestations of anger in the form of insults since really there is no other way to voice anger and aggression.  From Scripture we understand also that anger is a result of being led by the fleshly nature rather than being led by the Holy Spirit of Christ.. 


This is why they are so opposed to Scripture.  Not because we consider it the Word of God but because it IS the Word of God and the very words of scripture convicts them of their actions.  If it was truly a case of non-belief then they would never mention it twice but ignore it.  Because though it strikes a note, a chord, within their inner spirit/mind they abhor it, they find it offensive for it effects them because it cuts to the bone.  No there are reasons for the insults and they are the same now as they were in Christ day.  The exact same motivation creates the inner aggression which is fed and amplified by anger.  So enjoy the insults for Christ and the Disciples suffered the same in Christ Name. 


Sorry GBRK, I like you, but this is psychobabel of the worst kind.

I think it has a lot to do with the following:

 

Romans 8:5-8 (NLT)
5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.
6 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.
7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will.
8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

I think it's more that they are jilted because God doesn't come down from Heaven and appear in front of their very eyes.  They further are enraged that these simpleton Christians might actually have some contact and something from God that they don't have and cannot realize. 


Think about it Ram,   from a psychological standpoint and view anyone that is effected by some form of jealousy usually manifest that emotion, eventually, in anger or some form of anger such as verbal or potentially, eventually physical as for relationships.  On here though we see manifestations of anger in the form of insults since really there is no other way to voice anger and aggression.  From Scripture we understand also that anger is a result of being led by the fleshly nature rather than being led by the Holy Spirit of Christ.. 


This is why they are so opposed to Scripture.  Not because we consider it the Word of God but because it IS the Word of God and the very words of scripture convicts them of their actions.  If it was truly a case of non-belief then they would never mention it twice but ignore it.  Because though it strikes a note, a chord, within their inner spirit/mind they abhor it, they find it offensive for it effects them because it cuts to the bone.  No there are reasons for the insults and they are the same now as they were in Christ day.  The exact same motivation creates the inner aggression which is fed and amplified by anger.  So enjoy the insults for Christ and the Disciples suffered the same in Christ Name. 


Sorry GBRK, I like you, but this is psychobabel of the worst kind.

========sez you crust. You don't have much of a background in psychology it appears.

Classic interpretation by gbrk.

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

...Many atheist care not the least about the unborn being aborted...

This. Is. Ridiculous.

==========================why Adot abortion is one of your power points and it seems always to be coming from those have never had a v a gina. What gives?
I wish you would shut up and let the women folks talk about. Its not your decision now is it?

Originally Posted by A. Robustus:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

...Many atheist care not the least about the unborn being aborted...

This. Is. Ridiculous.


Many christians don't give a flip either. Now run and make 50 posts saying I said you didn't care.

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