Why don't we let the people whose aquifer and land will be affected decide?
After reading some of the reports from the leaks in the already operating portion of the Keystone pipeline, its not the quality of the steel that is being called into question but the design of the pipeline seems inadequate to pump this tar sands oil in a pipeline designed for light sweet crude. TransCanada said that their leak detection system was so good that leaks were almpst impossible but there have been 12 leaks reported in the 12 months its been operated, with the largest being about 20,000 barrels(840,000 gallons).
Originally Posted by O No!:
Why don't we let the people whose aquifer and land will be affected decide?
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I couldn’t agree with that more. The problem is the Federal Government makes decisions in Washington that effect people where they live. For example; President Clinton declared a national monument in Utah that took 1.9 million acres (7,571 km2) of land in southern Utah. The Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument has some very beautiful areas and some of it should have been set aside. But the majority of the so called monument contain nothing but desert land with no scenic value. The value was in Natural Resources in these areas that could have brought millions to our area. It also would have supplied thousands of mush needed jobs to southern Utah. This declaration by Clinton took away many areas that we had to recreate. There are roads that our families traveled for years that are off limits now. The point is, Utah and Nevada are controlled in many areas by the Federal Government. We have had no say so at all as the Feds slowly devour
Our state by declaring Habitats sensitive. This is our State shouldn’t we at least be heard and not ignored? If the States effected by this pipeline decide they don’t want it then they should have that right. Outside influences like environmentalist in California or New York should not have the right to interfere.
Skippy
Skippy, if the inhabitants of Utah stand in the way of cheaper gas at the pump I’m for moving them to Oklahoma, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico in equal and alphabetical amounts.
Sixpack you in no way need to worry about Utah. Drill, Drill, Drill. We feel it should be a Felony to be an Environmentalist.
Skippy
I agree skippy drill drill drill but ship it by rail.
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by interventor1212:
seeweed,
The State Department studied the route for over three years before it was approved. The original route was approved after an exhaustive environmental study.
If, you wish an argument about steel, fine. Demand inspection of the steel and that it meets federal standards. Don't use that as a catchall to deny the pipeline. As to byproducts, I assume they will be disposed of by the same methods used for decades. The gulf refineries have refined Venezuelan crude for decades with no outcry from anyone. That stuff has consistency of wax. Again, not a good argument.
Are you of the opinion that people, anybody, should be forced to make a decision that may have life threatening conciquences without needed information ?
The state is in approval. You did notice the hundreds of miles of pipeline thats been there for decades on the map I posted!
Originally Posted by Mr.Dittohead:
The national average for gas prices is above $3.50. Yet demand in the U.S. is at its lowest point since 1997.
Kloza believes much of the increase is due to speculative money that’s flowed into gasoline futures contracts since the beginning of the year, mostly from hedge funds and large money managers. “We’ve seen about $11 billion of speculative money come in on the long side of gas futures,” he says. “Each of the last three weeks we’ve seen a record net long position being taken.”
As the U.S. refining capacity has decreased, prices have begun to rise.
The Bush administration has to have a hand in these rising gas prices. He was blamed for the rise in gas prices all during his presidency and there is no way Obama could have anything to do with it. I'm sure if the democrats will dig deep enough they will find Bush is still calling the shots. If this is true though, it looks like Obama could get to the bottom of it and lower these spiraling gas prices. It sure is confusing isn't it.
We have already told the oil companies that we will gladly pay $4.00 per gallon for gasoline, maybe more. why would they want to charge less ?
Gingee's post:
"The Bush administration has to have a hand in these rising gas prices. He was blamed for the rise in gas prices all during his presidency and there is no way Obama could have anything to do with it. I'm sure if the democrats will dig deep enough they will find Bush is still calling the shots. If this is true though, it looks like Obama could get to the bottom of it and lower these spiraling gas prices. It sure is confusing isn't it.:"
Gingee,
Blaming an adminstration that's been out of power for over 3 years! ROFLMAO! That way lies conspiracy territory. Soon, you're lining your clothes with aluminum foil, letting your nails and hair go uncut, and hanging our with Extra swapping stories about being abducted by grays or Karl Rove. Or, **** Cheney, Karl Rove and the grays.
A major reason for the price rise is the rise in the world price to over $102 a barrel. Speculation is driving that train. Can't blame the oil companies for speculation as they can't buy their own futures.
As for hoping Obama will intercede, fuggedeabouit! Steve Chu, his Secretary of Energy stated:
“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.”
http://www.therightsphere.com/...he-levels-in-europe/
Europe is paying $6 to $10 a gallon.
Gas Price Hypocrisy !!!!
Here's a good example why Democrats say high gas prices are good for us.
Traffic around the Shoals is high, even been seeing several Hummers. Gas must be considered cheap by most people or there wouldn't be so many cars on the road.
seeweed,
People still have jobs to do, places they have to go, and things they have to do. They have to sacrifice money for other things to buy the gas. It is not secret that the environuts want gas prices to go higher in an effort to stimey driving and disrupt people's lives. The fallout also occurs when the farmers have to increase their prices, or close up shop, due to the fuel costs. It hurts everyone. These tractors do not run on electricity, and on average the replacement costs on just one of these machines can run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. In this area we don't have any type of mass transit system, other than a bus from which I have seen has little in the way of a "normal or trustworthy" schedule.
Hello all from Sochi, Russia where i am working at the moment.
Here gas costs around 3.50$ per gallon.In Serbia, where i come from, price for gallon is around 5$.Average income here is approx 700$ per month, in Serbia, for those who work, it is around 400$.Those are figures, i don't want to throw words.
Besides that, warm salutations to good people of Shoals!
hey, sweets... i'm glad to see you're well!!!!
keep on moving, sweetheart!!! we miss you here, in the shoals!!! 
Originally Posted by teyates:
seeweed,
People still have jobs to do, places they have to go, and things they have to do. They have to sacrifice money for other things to buy the gas. It is not secret that the environuts want gas prices to go higher in an effort to stimey driving and disrupt people's lives. The fallout also occurs when the farmers have to increase their prices, or close up shop, due to the fuel costs. It hurts everyone. These tractors do not run on electricity, and on average the replacement costs on just one of these machines can run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. In this area we don't have any type of mass transit system, other than a bus from which I have seen has little in the way of a "normal or trustworthy" schedule.
Not too sure why you want to pick on me." I got a good Christian rasin' and an 8th grade education, no need for y'all treating me this way "- Billy Joe Shaver - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdYzVFClHyg
However , from a more serious standpoint, farmers can grow their own fuel and are doing so at an alarming rate . Here is one article, but there are tons more for the Google machine to point out :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdYzVFClHyg
I hate paying higher and higher fuel prices myself, but I have found that higher fuel prices keeps me home more and makes me schedule my driving a lot more. When I see people running around in Hummers that get about 6 MPG, and PU trucks that on a good day and a road trip only get about 18 or 19 MPG, I can't believe that fuel prices have gotten so high as to hinder the general public.
No, I don't like paying the higher prices, but I mitigate as best I can by driving my motorcycle (50MPG) and burning 40% SVO (straight veg oil) in my PU during warmer weather. We all must do what we gotta do.
If the "law" of supply and demand was truly working in this country only, prices for fuel would be lower, but we are now exporting a lot of refined product, and world demand is increasing, so we better get ready to pay more and more. We showed the rest of the world what a good life it is to drive our own cars, one per person, and not take public transportation that they (the rest of the world) want's it also.
Like I said, we showed the oil companies back in 2008, 0r was it 2009 we would pay $4 / gal so , again , like I said, why would they charge less ? Want cheaper gas - don't buy the $4 stuff, ride a bicycle instead.
seeweed,
If you decide to commute by bike in the DC area, may I take out a life insurance policy on you?
Originally Posted by interventor1212:
seeweed,
If you decide to commute by bike in the DC area, may I take out a life insurance policy on you?
Isn't there a train that runs between National Airport and the Mall ? I haven't been to DC since '82 but I seem to remember some public transportation up there. I know the Senate has a Subway train 'cause I've ridden on it .
DC has a very good subway/bus system. However, they take you only where the planners wished to take you. DC has the worst commuter travel in the nation. During the 4 years I drove, I saw one accident everyday. And, one serious accident a week -- multiple police cars, ambulances, fire engines and a couple of helicopters.
The rising gas prices will place a nasty part against Obama. The price of food will rise significantly as transportation and farm costs rise. Obama's anti-drilling and anti-pipeline agenda will prove a sore point.
Originally Posted by teyates:
As the refineries switch blends for the summer, this always happens. Add to this the potential turmoil in the ME with Iran and the long term questions about the Keystone Pipeline and you have the makings of a $4 per gallon summer. Hopefully, as people feel it at the pump, and at the market, they will look back on Obama's failure to help with the Keystone Pipeline, realize he has done nothing to help with our dependence on foreign oil, and vote his sorry hind end right out of the WH come November.
The Keystone XL Pipeline: Oil for Export, Not for U.S. Energy Security
Industry Documents Reveal Scheme to Reach Lucrative Markets Abroad
“To issue a presidential permit for the Keystone XL, the Administration must find that the pipeline serves the national interest,” said Stephen Kretzmann, executive director of Oil Change International. “An honest assessment shows that rather than serving U.S. interests, Keystone XL serves only the interests of tar sands producers and shippers, and a few Gulf Coast refiners aiming to export the oil.”
In pushing for the Obama Administration’s approval of TransCanada’s proposed Keystone XL tar sands pipeline, the North American oil industry and its political patrons argue that the pipeline is necessary for American energy security and its construction will help wean America of dependence on Mideast oil. But a closer look at the new realities of the global oil market and at the companies who will profit from the pipeline reveals a completely different story: Keystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but rather transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.
Originally Posted by FatRat:
Obama is not apt to hurt many, if we can get him un-employed along with about 200 democratic legislators.
One independent review of Keystone puts that number even lower, with the Cornell University Global Labor Institute finding that the pipeline would add only 500 to 1,400 temporary construction jobs. The authors of the September report also said that much of the new employment stemming from Keystone would be outside the U.S.
Another reason for the discrepancy appears to stem from what that 20,000 figure really means. As Transcanada has conceded, its estimate counted up "job years" spent on the project, not jobs. In other words, the company was counting a single construction worker who worked for two years on Keystone as two jobs, lending fuel to critics who said advocates of the pipeline were overstating its benefits.
The Cornell researchers concluded:
The construction of KXL will create far fewer jobs in the U.S. than its proponents have claimed and may actually destroy more jobs than it generates....
The claim that KXL will create 20,000 direct construction and manufacturing jobs in the U.S. is unsubstantiated. There is strong evidence to suggest that a large portion of the primary material input for KXL -- steel pipe -- will not even be produced in the U.S.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...obs-really-at-stake/
Originally Posted by seeweed:
We have already told the oil companies that we will gladly pay $4.00 per gallon for gasoline, maybe more. why would they want to charge less ?
I agree. People will pay it because they have to drive. It's as simple as that. They will likely cut back on trips and start to plan their trips more efficiently too but they know people will have to fork it over. Most of us have no choice.
As I shown before, part of the pipeline capacity will go to midwestern refineries now not producing at desired capacity. That production will stay in the US. As to coastal refineries, yes, some will be exported. That will cause less stress on world capacity and prices to be reduced.
And, Obama will rightly bear the blame of higher prices.
i got the solution!!!
drill , baby , drill! 
dontcha know!
Originally Posted by willie:
i got the solution!!!
drill , baby , drill!
dontcha know!
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We do agree on something.
Skippy