Salvation Is Through Jesus Christ -- Not A Church!

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:

quote:

It is like the Muslims did not exist until Muhammed came along in 575 - 632 a.d.

Wow! Snap! Can someone assist me here? I give up.

***

I will assist you, You need to take it as it was meant!

In their History book "Quran - 570 a.d. - 632 a.d." they do not speak of anything of their own! They speak of writings that were before they came along "i.e. Moses and Jesus". After the fact, theirs is a made up religion based on Muhammed coming to make WAR <------------> WAR with the world (TO TAKE OVER MECCA and TRADITIONAL RELIGION), in an effort to be the supreme <------> supreme religion or die! It was orchestrated by Satans demons in effort to change your mind, and lead many others astray from the truth which is --------> JESUS the MESSIAH is the only way to get to Heaven and to be with God for eternity. NO other way!

I am not talking about the people themselves fro they were in existance from the time Abraham had a child named ISHMAEL which was not the receiver of the Covenant (Isaac was that child), nor am I talking of the Bible being the only History that is present, I am talking about the Muslim religion of Islam! It is a poorly, extremely poor version of parts of THE OLD TESTAMENT, and also made up stuff by Muhammed to give him POLITCAL justification to try and Destroy those around him who oppose Him unlike Jesus who came to save ALL mankind, not just the middle Eastern People as in the Muslims Religion of ISLAM.

JESUS came to Save all mankind, Muhammed was a puppet who came to destroy and which is doing a fairly descent job but God has it all in HIS control. God's will, will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

***

SHUSH -- Deepfat, you don't know a thing about religion or spirituality. YOU my friend are a poser.

Good day.

quote:

Wow! Snap! Can someone assist me here? I give up.

He's right, Mohammad lived around 600 AD. Like I said in my last post, he claimed to be God's prophet so he could give orders without question and conquer his enemies. That happened a lot in the ancient world, but for whatever reason, Islam stuck around. Probably because Mid East governments saw they could have more power with it than without it.

It's the exact opposite of Christianity which teaches love and mercy, not destroy and conquer. That's why it's not a continuation of the same religion.

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
Aren't these points about the old versus new testament moot? I read that the Quran was the latest and final revelation of god. Muhammed was his prophet. Doesn't the Quran even mention the jews and the christians
(people of the book)? I thought that the bible was yhe equivalent of outdated software. I mean they are all the same god, right? So why are some of you still talking about the bible? I still think all religions are false premises, but if we are talking logic, it seems we would look to islam before christianity as islam is said to be the latest word from god.

Hi Net,

If we are to use that logic -- we would all be Mormons. Joseph Smith laid the last claim to finding golden nuggets from an angel.

But, then, Joseph Smith will now be replaced by Oprah and her disciples. Where next?

I think I will just stay with the Bible. It has a proven track record that goes back about 6000 years. None other can touch that; not even the bibles written by Darwin and Dawkins.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

What calendar are you using, Holy Bill (peace be upon him and his family, the Noble Grayites)? How in the Bible have any part that is 6000 years old when the Old Testament did not exist as codified and canonical until about 600 BC during the Babylonian Captivity?
6000 years ago the Afro-Asiatic languages had not even yet differentiated very much! Proto-Canaanite languages don't date until a few thousand years before Christ, much less Hebrew, Aramaic or others!
Writing itself is only about 5000 years old at the most, and that is may be a stretch at that date.
But now you may be a paleolinguist amongst political philosopher and other avocations wont to be practiced by the infallible.

quote:

Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
What calendar are you using, Holy Bill (peace be upon him and his family, the Noble Grayites)? How in the Bible have any part that is 6000 years old when the Old Testament did not exist as codified and canonical until about 600 BC during the Babylonian Captivity?
6000 years ago the Afro-Asiatic languages had not even yet differentiated very much! Proto-Canaanite languages don't date until a few thousand years before Christ, much less Hebrew, Aramaic or others!
Writing itself is only about 5000 years old at the most, and that is may be a stretch at that date.
But now you may be a paleolinguist amongst political philosopher and other avocations wont to be practiced by the infallible.

***

Neal, not to fuss with ya, but I think Bill is only stating that the contents of the Bible according to the Bible (Moses) is about or does go back from our time to 6000 years of History. In which most if not all Christians believe to be so. I don't think that Bill is saying that the Biblical writings are 6000 years old. If Bill were, then that would mean that Adam would have been the writer of Genesis instead of Moses.

Bill, myself and you should note that it is actually a compiled writing of Jewish History in it's own right about 4000 years of Historic base. We people of present time have seen the other 2000 years of noncanonized-writen Biblical History by way of world view. (i.e. history books and such)

Anyway, that is the view I see of Bill's writing.

Good day.

Well, then he should have said that and not what he did, then.
English is pretty clear in declarative sentences, I believe. But that would depend on how one defines "is" now would it not?

I've no idea why Marionette thinks I am an atheist. I am a baptized and confirmed member of the Episcopal Church, a former 3 year vestry term member at my parish on Long Island, went to the Annual Convention and helped elect a new suffragan bishop there. I held licenses from our bishop to administer the chalice and lead public prayer and have even led Morning Prayer when our priest and curate both had family emergencies out of town. I was on the school board of St. David's Episcopal Elementary School in Riverhead NY.
Does that sound like an atheist? All of my book reviews in print are on religious topics. One was evidently so good that a guy in Texas plagiarized it point by point six months after it came out in Reviews in Southern History.
By your fruits ye will know them, and I see no tribulating or rapturing bearing much fruit, and do see a lot of fruit being borne by the Roman Catholic, Episcopal, UMC, ELCA, and others! Why the former Soviet Union is being rechristianized right now with little or no help from us here in the West!
I am such a ranting atheist that I gave money I barely had in the early 80s to help rebuild damaged churches in Armenia after a great earthquake and tithed when I could afford it, back when I was middle class on Long Island.
You hyper-Protestants with all your innovations and pick and choose out of Leviticus are so amusing! Especially when you mix politics with your chapels!

quote:

Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
I've no idea why Marionette thinks I am an atheist.

I saw that post and didn't get that either. You've made several posts about your work with the Episcopal church. Maybe she doesn't realize Episcopalians are real Christians.

Neal, I assumed you were one of the atheists, by the fruit of your lips. I was a church member 13 years before I realized I was as lost as a goose. Being a born-again Christian is more than being a church member, saying a few prayers and helping the poor. You continually dismiss Jesus and the Bible as something to be hated...therefore my assumption. I know some born-again Episcopals, I have my doubts that you are one of them...but it is never too late to give your life to Jesus...go for it!!

2 Peter 3-4....There shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Hi Neal,

You say of Monette, "I've no idea why Marionette thinks I am an atheist."

Maybe it is because you are always trying to twist other folk's names in a childish attempt to ridicule. Maybe it is because you shout your own praise as you attempt to talk down to others. Maybe it is because you attack the Bible and all other Christian churches. Maybe it is because you imply that the only churches which are worth attending are the liturgical churches.

Just a thought; but have you ever considered talking about the Christian faith without attempting to denigrate others?

Neal, there are many aspects of the Christian faith we could constructively and civilly discuss -- without such blatant attempts to slam the beliefs of others. While I believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture; I realize that there are churches which teach differently. Will I get nasty to you because you are Mid-Trib or Post-Trib -- or do not believe in the Rapture at all? No, for we will know the truth at the appropriate time. I will discuss the Rapture, the Tribulation, the Millennial Kingdom, and eternity with you -- but, I will not curse you for not believing. Why do you?

Do you really feel that ridiculing another person's personal beliefs makes you look bigger, or smarter? I will tell you, my Friend, it does not.

Yes, I will debate and discuss issues of the Christian faith -- and I will discuss issues such as the homosexual lifestyle, same-sex marriage, and abortion from a Biblical viewpoint. I will discuss these, from the Bible, not from a personal hatred for or against others who oppose me. I will discuss and oppose these issues because I sincerely believe that the God ordained family unit is imperative to maintaining a strong Christian nation. But, I will not curse you for your beliefs; I will not call you names because of your beliefs; I will not attempt to ridicule you because of your beliefs. Why do you do this? You cannot build yourself up -- by tearing others down.

Neal, I have no doubt that you feel strongly about your Episcopalian church. But, do not put your church above God and the Bible. Remember, God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible -- are what make us the church; not the other way around. Less hatred -- and more Christian respect and love would make you a much more pleasant person in a dialogue.

And, possibly, that is why MONETTE had the wrong impression of you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

SHUSH -- Deepfat, you don't know a thing about religion or spirituality. YOU my friend are a poser.

hahahahahahahahahaha.....


As if it were I who knows the mind of god. As if it were I who can see the future. As if it were I who interprets prophecies.

The Poser

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:

quote:

SHUSH -- Deepfat, you don't know a thing about religion or spirituality. YOU my friend are a poser.

hahahahahahahahahaha.....

As if it were I who knows the mind of god. As if it were I who can see the future. As if it were I who interprets prophecies.

The Poser

Hi Deep,

None of us knows the mind of God; for he is infinite, while we are finite. None of us can see the future; for only He is omniscient.

But, yes, by studying the Bible; by searching His Word; by prayerfully considering the teachings of the Bible, especially the prophecies -- we who have spiritual discernment (because we have the Holy Spirit within us) can understand His will for our lives, can understand His love for us, can find the only Path and only Way to salvation which He has provided for all who will believe.

My Friend, I pray that one day you will stop scoffing, stop uplifting your own intelligence, and realize that He does have all the answers for you. Some day, I pray.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

None of us knows the mind of God

Bill,

All you do is preach to us the mind of god. On issues such as homosexuality, creation, abortion, and tribularapturation.

If not you, then someone who you mimic made it all up, you know.


DF

Yak, yak, yak, yak, yak. You have the gall to call out anyone for denigrating anyone's beliefs? Now if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.
I am just giving you people a dose of your own medicine!
You make claims of fact when they are mere opinion. When called on it, you release a barrage of Bible quotes that are often out of context. When anyone asks you to comment on something that might make you have to use reason, such as the actual age of the earth or the age of the Bible or the meaning of Satan and Job, you lot just post Bible verses!
I don't have a fetish for the Episcopal Church, I only go because there was no Methodist in Idaho when I was in school there, only Episcopal, Catholic and UCC. That was closest to the UMC. Then when I went onward and to Portsmouth NH in the shipyard, the Episcopal Church there downtown was in walking distance. Then in NY, the parish was right down the street and so I was confirmed there and was very active.
I am just at home in an ELCA or Episcopal or Methodist, and even a few Presbyterian that have cast off their hardcore Calvin. For good Bible teaching, you can't beat the old C of C in these parts for knowledge of what is written in historical and literal context. I prefer my clergy to know how to read Greek, for some off reason, and a smattering of Hebrew and Aramaic don't hurt; not someone who felt a "call" and founded a chapel.
Now, I don't doubt the veracity of many, but I would fear I would be over my head in a serious theological discussion between highly educated clergy and a local semi-lay pastor.
Now I have no Greek at all, and only know enough Hebrew and Aramaic to know that the letters are run right to left and not like in Latin or Greek! Beth means house and El means "lord," as does "Baal," and "Rabbi" means teacher.That is about it. I can sound out Greek, but if it isn't a common English prefix such as "tetra" or "di" or "pent" then I am lost. I think that "oo" means egg. "Anthropos" means man and "gyno" means woman, cognate with "queen" and an English curse word. "Homo" means same and "polis" means city or state. IXC is Jesus Christ. As is XP.
I never claim that my way or the highway at all. I never intend to post anything "over your head" but if that be the case, then deal with it and use a dictionary or go to the library or just ask if you are confused -- I always told students that when they did not know a word or concept, after I wrote them on the board then went over them the next meeting.
I tend to write in a very formal yet frivolous way at times -- force of habit.
I love changing the names around! It really gets your goat, eh Gill Bray? Such a silly thing as a name! What did Solomon say in Proverbs, "A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet" wasn't it?

try again...wasn't Solomon

Or was it Solomon who wrote, "Parting is such sweet
sorrow."..............???? LOL

Hi Neal,

You tell us, "I am just giving you people a dose of your own medicine!"

Obviously you have not noticed -- but, many folks on the Forum would like to be your Friend. No one has been putting you down; yet, you continually attack everyone. I have a suggestion. Why don't we all start over -- and dialogue as Friends. No put downs; no anger, no hateful diatribes -- just friendly discussions. Who knows; you may find that you enjoy it. It is worth a try -- and I am willing if you are.

Then, you say, "You make claims of fact when they are mere opinion. When called on it, you release a barrage of Bible quotes that are often out of context. When anyone asks you to comment on something that might make you have to use reason, such as the actual age of the earth or the age of the Bible or the meaning of Satan and Job, you lot just post Bible verses!"

This may really come as a shock to you -- but, most folks, when discussing Christianity, do quote the Bible. That is why God gave it to us -- to be our moral and spiritual guide. How else can we have a dialogue about the Christian faith -- if we do not use the Bible?

So, how about it? Would you like to put all feelings of animosity behind us and start fresh? I do.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Monette:
Or was it Solomon who wrote, "Parting is such sweet
sorrow."..............???? LOL

Hi Monette,

No, I do believe those are words that Shakespeare had Juliet saying to Romeo:

JULIET:
Sweet, so would I:
Yet I should kill thee with much cherishing.
Good night, good night! parting is such sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow.

But, I am sure Solomon would have said this if he did not have 1000 wives and concubines.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Good Lord, do you not recognize sarcasm?
That is a parody of the Betty Butterfield videos where she gets read a KJV verse and replies "How in the world am I supposed to know what that means? I never studied Shakespeare." I think this is right after she leaves a Baptist church "at halftime" as there was no smoke break.
There is a difference between theology and the Bible, by the way! The Bible is the source, theology is the study of the meaning behind the words and the philosophy expressed within them and behind them. Sort of like criticism and merely copying large sections of the text with a few personal asides thrown in for good measure. . . is that too highbrow?

quote:

Originally posted by Monette:
Neal, I assumed you were one of the atheists, by the fruit of your lips. I was a church member 13 years before I realized I was as lost as a goose. Being a born-again Christian is more than being a church member, saying a few prayers and helping the poor. You continually dismiss Jesus and the Bible as something to be hated...therefore my assumption. I know some born-again Episcopals, I have my doubts that you are one of them...but it is never too late to give your life to Jesus...go for it!!

So, unless you are born again, you are an atheist. Is this what you are saying? If so, anything that you have said or will say carries zero weight. That would have to be one of the dumbest things ever spoken or put in print. Congratulations!

Someone on another thread said of Monette (now Gemini): She is full of self-righteousness but has none of Jesus' compassion. I think that about hits the nail on the head.

Now, I don't know when the glory train is leaving, but I hope that about 5 have tickets and are on the platform! And that it is express and one way!

My friends Jesus and the Bible are not something to be hated, they should be studied along with other mythologies.And given no more credence than any other. Christians, well nobody should be hated, they should also not be taken seriously. As Sam Harris said, religion is the only area today where a person can make outrageous claims with absolutely no evidence. And NO the Bible is not considered credible evidence.
Someone else mentioned the US being a Christian Nation. This is the very last thing we are. We are a representative democracy. We want people of all and no faiths to live in peace together. If you want to live in a theocracy this is not the place for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Neal Hughes:

I tend to write in a very formal yet frivolous way at times -- force of habit. I love changing the names around! It really gets your goat, eh Gill Bray? Such a silly thing as a name!

1 Corinthians 13:11, "When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things."

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, & stubborness is as iniquity and idolatry. 1 Samuel 15:23

They observed times & used enchantment & used witchcraft, & dealt with a familiar spirit & with wizards; he wrought much evil in the sight of thw Lord, to provoke Him to anger. 2 Chr 33:6

I will cut off witchcraft out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers. Mic. 5:12

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultary, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousnes, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulation, strife, seditions, heresies. Galatians 5:19

Monette, you trying to top Joanne Woodward and Sally Field for personalities?

I'll read my Bible, or join some church. IMO the Baptist Chruch and the Church of Christ are alien to the spirit of Christianity.

I always detest talking religion on here anymore, simply because rather than exchanging ideas and beliefs among believers it always turns into a slug fest where people are always forced on the defensive and have to validate their religion to the athiests. It gets old having to read it.

You guys do know that you're only feeding their wrath by responding to them, don't ya? Either kill them with kindness or let them wallow in their unbelief. There are times when I have wanted to jump in and discuss, but I don't because the attack dogs will jump in and tear it to shreds.

And getting back to the original topic, the way I see it, Christ established his church in order to bring to pass the salvation of mankind. He gave the apostles the authority to act in His name while he was here on earth, and with that authority they built up the church. The church was necessary for people to meet together, learn together, to bring order to the kindom of God on earth, and to provide the necessary ordinances for the salvation of mankind, such as baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, etc. Since then, the church was changed and people began to change things... not with the authority of God, but with the authority of man. Since then the great struggle of Christianity has been to get back to the way it was when Christ was on earth.

quote:

rather than exchanging ideas and beliefs among believers it always turns into a slug fest where people are always forced on the defensive and have to validate their religion to the athiests.

If it weren't for us non believers, y'all would tear yourselves apart.

quote:

Originally posted by FoshaBen:
I always detest talking religion on here anymore, simply because rather than exchanging ideas and beliefs among believers it always turns into a slug fest where people are always forced on the defensive and have to validate their religion to the athiests. It gets old having to read it.

You guys do know that you're only feeding their wrath by responding to them, don't ya? Either kill them with kindness or let them wallow in their unbelief. There are times when I have wanted to jump in and discuss, but I don't because the attack dogs will jump in and tear it to shreds.

Hi Fosh,

As I mentioned in another post, those who are actively posting on the Forums are only maybe thirty, at the most. Yet, there are many thousands reading what is posted.

Are we to leave all those thousands to the mercy of the "attack dogs" of atheism and dis-belief -- or are we to offer them an alternative to atheistic teaching?

Walking away from the Forums because of the "attack dogs" without sharing Jesus Christ with the folks -- is like not voting because you do not like the two candidates. Not voting is voting. Not sharing the Gospel -- is allowing the gospel of atheism to be shared.

Just my thoughts.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I think the majority of people are smart enough to tell most of their story is full of baloney. I choose not to respond because its like what Christ called "kicking against the *****s." Like beating your head into a brick wall. Eventually all you end up with is a headache, and the wall ain't moved an inch. The Christianity vs. athiesm arguement gets old after a while. I would occasionally enjoy talking about other religious topics without having to explain the same "why God actually exists" everytime they interject. It just gets old, repetitive, and stale.

wow... I just got censored for quoting scripture!! That's a first!

quote:

Originally posted by Neal Hughes:
Monette, you trying to top Joanne Woodward and Sally Field for personalities?

I have been wondering the same thing. Also seems like someone is trying to boost their post count.

Who dat is?

Looks like Forrest Gump's mama