School Violence - Obamas take.....

Ban unions as they breed thuggery.  Ban homosexuals, they cause most AIDS cases.  Ban smoking, it kills more than gays and unions combined.  Ban liberals, whiny little twerps who are a cancer to our society.

Yeah, I didnt even want to get into that conversation because, like everything else, some people can make numbers sing if they want to.  Especially those close to Nanny Bloomberg.  Folks, don't believe the Liberal hype.  

 

But, to back up your comment Hoob:

 

http://www.politifact.com/trut...ings-sandy-hook-clo/

 

We reviewed news reports for all 74 shootings and did our best to sort them into five categories. Here’s our breakdown. (See individual shootings by category here, with clickable links to news reports on each shooting.)

 

• Incidents such as Sandy Hook or Columbine in which the shooter intended to commit mass murder: 10 instances

 

• Incidents related to criminal activity (such as drug dealing or robbery), or personal altercations: 39 instances

 

• Incidents unconnected to members of school community and/or that took place outside school hours: 16 instances

 

• Suicides: 6 instances

 

• Accidental discharges: 3 instances

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...0209.html?1402422950

 

Since the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, there have been an average of 1.37 school shootings for each school week, according to data maintained by Everytown for Gun Safety, a group fighting to end gun violence.

Including Tuesday's incident at a high school in Troutdale, Oregon, 74 school shootings have taken place in the approximately 18 months since the Dec. 14, 2012, Newtown shooting. The average school year typically lasts about 180 days, which means there have been roughly 270 school days, or 54 weeks, of class since the shooting at Newtown. With 74 total incidents over that period, the nation is averaging well over a shooting per school week.

The data maintained by Everytown for Gun Safety also shows that these shootings have occurred throughout the country. In all, 31 states have had an incident of gun violence at a school. Georgia has witnessed far more incidents than others, with 10 happening at schools there since Sandy Hook. There have been seven school shootings in Florida, five in Tennessee, four in North Carolina and four in California.

The majority of the school shootings, 39, have taken place at K-12 schools. The remainder of them have happened at colleges or universities.

Not surprisingly, schools tend to be safer when they are not in session. The longest gap between school shootings appears between mid-June and mid-August of 2013, which falls during summer break, when the majority of students are not enrolled in classes. Other gaps of weeks or longer fall during periods when schools are typically on winter, spring or summer breaks.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...tings-since-newtown/

 

Tuesday’s school shooting in Oregon is at least the 74th instance of shots being fired on school grounds or in school buildings since the late-2012 elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn., according to a listmaintained by the group Everytown for Gun Safety, which advocates for policies it believes limit gun violence.

There have been at least 37 shootings on school grounds this year, which is just barely half over. All told, there has been nearly one shooting per week in the year and a half since Newtown. Everytown identifies a school shooting as any instance in which a firearm was discharged within a school building or on school grounds, sourced to multiple news reports per incident. Therefore, the data isn’t limited to mass shootings like Newtown—it includes assaults, homicides, suicides and even accidental shootings. Of the shootings, 35 took place at a college or university, while 39 took place in K-12 schools.

Georgia, which passed an expansive pro-gun law this year, has been site of the most incidents on Everytown’s list, with 10  shootings reported. Florida was next, with seven. Tennessee claimed five, and North Carolina and California was home to four each. Atlanta was the only city that had three such shootings. Six other cities had two shootings. All told, 31 states are represented on the list of shootings in schools or on school campuses or grounds. 

A February analysis by the group of a list of school shootings since Newtown (which was later expanded) found that nearly half resulted in at least one death. Three in four shooters obtained guns at home, at least in instances in which the firearm’s source could be determined.

Here’s a map of the cities where the 74 shootings on Everytown’s list took place.

Note: Blue markers represent incidents in 2014; red markers are for incidents from 2013. You may have to zoom in to view separate incidents in the same city. Cities that were home to multiple shootings are Atlanta; Grambling, La.; Savannah, Ga.; Jackson, Tenn.; Roswell, N.M.; Milwaukee; Augusta, Ga.

 

 

Jank,

 

You cite:  "Three in four shooters obtained guns at home, at least in instances in which the firearm’s source could be determined."

 

You're a multiple gun owner.  What kept your kids from taking one of them to school and shooting someone?

 

Did your guns "just say no?"

 

 

I keep them in a safe. 

 

Tell me if I am wrong, if you keep your guns in a safe, they are sporting (hunting, skeet, etc) pieces or toys or collectables.  If it is for home protection, don't you have to have it where you can have it in your hand in a second?  I don't have a problem with either one.  My problem is not teaching kids how to respect and use a gun, and how not to use it.

Firearms in a safe may be of many types -- so what! I keep all but one revolver in a safe. When, I had children around, the revolver was in drawer that would only open for myself and my wife.  -- biometrics.  Now, its in a nightstand. If, grandkids come over, I put on the trigger lock.

Jank,

You did see where I posted the truth to about 'Everytowns' numbers - right?  Nothing like calling a suicide or a drug deal gone wrong on a Saturday a 'school shooting'. 

But keep believing the BS that Liberal think tank keeps feeding people....

I saw where you are trying to down play school shootings by putting them in different categories. To me (and the victims and their families) the students are just as dead regardless of the circumstances. Guns should not be at school. Period. Increased gun violence in our schools is real and provable. The numbers don't lie. You can twist them all you want and try and pretend that one shooting is worse than another but that is just you trying to make yourself feel better about it. Face the facts and stop acting like we don't have a serious problem in this country. As a responsible citizen and gun owner I am willing to do whatever it takes to stop these tragic killings. You are over here all...."well there is a difference between this shooting and that shooting" geesh! 

 

 

 

I didnt - a news source did and i quoted it and linked to it.

 

There you go assuming again.  Nothing in the Everytown numbers states that the victims were students.  Just that a gun incident occurred on school property.  Football field, parking lot, etc.  could have been as simple as a drug deal between two adults gone bad after school hours - thats classified as a 'school shooting' now.  If a woman shoots her attacker in self defense late one evening and it happens to happen in a school parking lot - thats now a 'school shooting' according to your Liberal friends at Everytown.

 

Im not the one twisting the truth here.  Your friend, Bloomberg, and his group have twisted the numbers to fit their narratIve.  And you swallow it up hook, line and sinker.

 

As for guns at school - i thought most schools were 'gun free zones' - are you now saying that the idea of a 'gun free zone' is flawed?  After all - why are there guns in these 'gun free zones'?  

 

I agree, this country has a serious problem.  But its not with guns.  Its with people trying to blame eveything on the gun and not opening their eyes to the truth.

 

 

 

open our eyes with the truth Einstein. Star Wars and the imagined personality perhaps?

No, you are not.  You are blinded by the liberal agenda.  Violence in school is a big problem.  But you are not looking at that - you are too busy worried about gun violence.  Why dont you want to address violence in school?  

 

The liberal agenda is not to address violence in school, just like its not to address the mental health issues in this country.  Those topics are just a means for them to push gun control.  As long as mentally ill people keep shooting people and bullied kids keep shooting people, the liberals will continue to have ammunition to push their agenda.  And folks like you will blindly follow......

Well, apparently even CNN felt the need to 'clarify' the 74 school shooting statistic.  Guess it not just me that thinks there was some fuzzy math going on.....

 

CNN determined that 15 of the incidents Everytown included were situations similar to the violence in Newtown or Oregon -- a minor or adult actively shooting inside or near a school.....

 

......Some of the other incidents on Everytown's list included personal arguments, accidents and alleged gang activities and drug deals.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/11/...?iid=article_sidebar

 

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Of course I care about violence in all areas of society. However, unlike you trying to make a difference in one type of gun death vs another, not all acts of violence are the same. A fist fight between two teens is not the same as someone pulling out a gun and shooting people. Why start at the bottom? We got bigger fish to fry than school yard fights. 

 

I sometimes feel like those on the right live in an alternate universe where reality and fantasy are reversed. Since when did the liberals not care about violence in schools or the mentally ill? Are you serious? Those have been huge liberal concerns for as long as I can remember. Reagan was the one that defunded mental health services and kicked patients out of hospitals, first in CA and then when he became president he continued to tear apart our mental health system. Republicans have carried on his legacy. Even the new bills they introduce in congress concerning mental illness and gun control always tag on defunding of mental health services. Their answer is to punish the mentally ill with less rights and less treatment. When if they really cared they would place treatment above punishment and in turn avoid the need for it. 

 

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/2...less_mental_illness/

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/ho...sed-on-mental-health

 

http://www.politicususa.com/20...tal-health-bill.html

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/th...-continues-shutdown/

 

http://thinkprogress.org/econo...natives-gun-control/

 

I just typed in "violence" and these are the results. Pretty obvious which party is more concerned with victims of violence and the prevention of violence. Take a look for yourself. 

http://beta.congress.gov/searc...%3A%22violence%22%7D

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Once again the anti-firearms bunch lie.  Its not mental health checks the NRA opposes, its the wide definition used.  Under existing federal regulations, a person who experienced a temporary reaction to a traumatic event or who has trouble handling household finances may well be treated the same as a violent psychopath.

 

CNN exposed the lie concerning firearms and school violence, yet, it didn't faze you, at all.  Oh, it was JFK who demanded most mental health facilities be emptied.

Jank,

 

You are absolutely, 100% correct about one thing - I do not believe an assault victim shooting their attacker, or a drug deal gone bad, or a gang member shooting another gang member, rises to the level of importance to be labelled as a 'school shooting'.  I don't think those incidents should be considered the same as the Newtown tragedy.  

 

Only those with an anti-gun agenda would lump all those into one number in an attempt to 'shock' people into agreeing with their belief.

 

I'm just glad even CNN had the guts to stand up to them and shine a light on their lie.  

 

Dire, if you can't make sense, do a Bill Grey like post

Dires post made perfect sense to me.  The liberals would like to suspend / revoke gun rights for people just for expressing the fact that they are depressed.  So, if you are prescribed meds for depression, you lose your gun rights.  Exactly how does that help?  Sounds to me like folks suffering from depression would be less likely to seek help for fear of being added to the 'list.'

 

But, gun control isnt about helping the mentally ill - as much as some people would like us all to believe.....

Here you go - va suspends gun rights because spouse handles finances:

 

www.vawatchdog.org/fiduciary-appointments.html

 

Many veterans aren't aware that they're being examined for incompetence. During a routine C & P exam the examiner may ask you "How do the bills get paid around your house?" or a similar question.

There are a lot of us who would innocently reply; "My spouse writes all the checks. We find it easier to let her do all the banking stuff and she's better at it than I am. It works for us."

To most C & P examiners that means you can not handle your own finances.  They will make a brief note, "Veteran is not competent to manage his finances."

Once that little remark is in your record, you have a world of problems coming your way.
You will then be notified that there is a "proposal" to appoint a fiduciary for you.....

 

.....VA will ask to set up a meeting with you in your residence. This meeting will be with a VA Field Agent (or examiner) who will ask you about your finances, do background checks on people in your home, perform credit rating checks and so on. He/she will tell you that as an incompetent veteran you can not have guns in your house and you will not have the right to purchase firearms.

Capt James T, JT has a problem following a line of thought to its ultimate conclusion. I've noticed this in other threads.  Logic is a casualty of the public school system now.

Since we have gone all over the place with this topic, where is all this rage coming from?  It isn't just guns, road rage is rampant, people are flying off the handle over trivial things and attacking others with anything they can get their hands on.  Do we all need to be sent to bed without supper and have our tv privileges suspended for a week?

Thank you, JT, for this comment.  The rage is the problem.  Lack of respect for others, lack of empathy for others, lack of respect for ones self.  These are all issues that boil into rage and school shootings.

 

Im not sure of the cause.  Some people blame lack of religion in schools.  Personally, i think when religion was removed from schools, nothing (non secular) was implemented to replace it.  Now, instead of teaching morality and respect, we medicate kids.

 

Some people think its the introduction of all the hormones and steroids to our food supply.  

 

some people think its desensitization of our youth to violence through media and games.

 

This is a start to a serious discussion about our violent society. 

This is what it always boils down to with the right. They talk out of both sides of their mouths...and scare tactics...you guys are the pros on that one. 

 

You say you want mental illness addressed and blame those with mental illness for the increased gun violence, then when it gets right down to actually doing something about that you make a 180 and suddenly the feds are trying to take guns away from people just because they don't pay their own bills.  If you read any of the bills that have been put forth in congress about this issue you know that what you say is a lie. Don't accuse me of trying to scare people with lies. That is your method. I am putting out facts and numbers. You don't like them so you are coming up with crazy scenarios to try and say once again that "liberals are coming to take our guns" although you might be right Capt. After reading the thread you have been starting for the last year or so on here you just might not be stable enough to own a gun. You flip out over the smallest things and believe we are out to get you.

 

So what is it that you guys find acceptable for dealing with mental illness and guns? How do we determine who is safe and who is not? Seems like no answer is good enough for Capt. 

Your 'facts and numbers' are a lie.  They may not be your lie, but you are repeating them as truth when they are not.  Whether or not i like them is irrelevant when they are false.  Even CNN questioned your 'facts and numbers'.

 

As for my answer - Ive said it over and over - address mental illness in America.  That is not done through gun control.  You are lying to yourself if you think it is.  All the bills i have seen in the past few years have been ways to make it harder to get possession of a gun.  How about addressing what drove them to commit the crime and how we can prevent it.  Because the crazy who wants to hurt a bunch of kids will do it with a gun, a knife, a car or a backpack with a pressure cooker bomb.

 

As for me, Ill be the crazy second amendment supporter all day long over being an anti second amendment Liberal. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure gun fetishism and paranoia are mental illnesses.

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Read the bills, you are in error!

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That fetish exists in the liberal mind only. Firearms are but tools.  Now, those who like motorcycles to an inordinate degree...!

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Aaaahhhh, you just pulled that outta yer ass...

Bud the “tick tick tick” is obviously a trait of the gun nuts.

 

By “nuts” I’m referring to are believers in some Armageddon they hear about from gaming, comic books, super heroes and overheard conversations in pawn shops.

 

These “nuts” are all hoarded up with guns and ammo waiting for some signal to start shooting something.

 

The signal doesn’t come, they are tired of waiting and out of frustration they attack the least likely to fight back; unarmed children.

 

While the fetishism and paranoia are being enjoyed; keep in mind, these gun “nuts” are listening to you.

 

NOTE: the Supreme Court just upheld the Kagan Law after the law was challenged by a cop who bought a gun for someone else illegally and was caught lying on the purchase form claiming he was buying it for himself.

Im not sure of the cause.  Some people blame lack of religion in schools.  Personally, i think when religion was removed from schools, nothing (non secular) was implemented to replace it.  Now, instead of teaching morality and respect, we medicate kids.

 

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This is something no one will ever give a straight answer to when it's asked. How and when was religion "in" schools and when and how was it removed from schools? How is it a school's place to teach morality and respect? I think respect should be expected and demanded, but to say schools should teach it is wrong. Way to many teachers now days don't have good morals or respect for others, and I've met plenty I wouldn't want teaching my kids their brand of morality.

 

Too, which brand of morality? Islam? Christianity? Which denomination? Christians accuse atheists of hating gawd and all that crap. It's not hate, it's the fear of the doors they will open if they keep demanding religion be given a more prominent place in schools and politics.

 

There should be higher standards for teachers, and they should be subject to being fired if they don't perform up to those standards. I agree about the problem of medicating children. Bad behavior, that in the past would have gotten a kid punished and actually remedied the situation, is now considered a "disorder" or some other such nonsense, and they toss the kid a pity party and medicate them. This gives kids carte blanche,  takes any responsibility off the parents, and goes on into adulthood. Nothing is anyone's fault, there is always something or someone else to blame.

 

 

...no religious dogma should be taught in schools IMO.  Games, media, food additives are a likely cause of problems with our yoot.

When i was in school, it was not unusual for a teacher to correct misbehavior with 'God would not approve of that' or 'God is always watching what you are doing, even when no one else is.' Some parents are not the best at teaching morality and good ethical behavior (which is not a religious trait) and some kids need it reinforced outside the home. I agree that the lack of ethical behavior among teachers and our inability to correct it is an issue as well. I dont believe religion and schools should mix - but for years they did (to answer your question about when was religion 'in' schools). I dont push my religious beliefs on others and dont want others to push theirs on me. Ethical behavior and morality should be a core concept and lots of thought should go into how its taught. Call it an ethics curriculum if you dont like the word morality, but the thought process is the same. I think ethics is like economics in public schools - the two basic life principles are glossed over where they should be taught in some form each year.

When i was in school, it was not unusual for a teacher to correct misbehavior with 'God would not approve of that' or 'God is always watching what you are doing, even when no one else is.' 

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 When I read that I thought of the scene in "A Christmas Story" when the teacher was trying to make the kids feel bad for leaving flick stuck to the flagpole. They tried to look sorry for what they had done, and nodded when she was speaking, but they were thinking something else entirely, and we all know if it happened again poor old flick would still be on his own.

 

 

Actor Scott Schwartz poses next to a statue of the famous “triple dog dare” scene in the 1983 movie “A Christmas Story.” Schwartz played Flick, a kid whose tongue got frozen to a flagpole on a schoolyard dare. (Credit: Mike Krauser)

Unless one sends a child to a private school that openly admits to a particular ethical, perhaps religious viewpoint, ethics should be taught by the parent. If national standards are set for ethics classes, we'll only get more government worship and our kids/grandchildren will only learn situational ethics. Parents must set down a few irrevocable rules of life and practice what they preach. Also it wouldn't hurt to give children responsibility and give praise or rebuke as warranted by the child's actions.

Single mothers with boys can easily result in young men who weren't socialized.  They emulate the thugs in their neighborhood. 

 Call it an ethics curriculum if you dont like the word morality, but the thought process is the same. I think ethics is like economics in public schools - the two basic life principles are glossed over where they should be taught in some form each year.

 

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I didn't say i didn't like the word. I said their idea of what is moral might not be another's idea, and I don't see how calling it ethics instead of morals would make any difference. What if that teacher said to the child, "allah sees you, and would let me kill you because you're an infidel"? True, some parents don't teach morals, or call it ethics, but there is nothing that says a teacher would be better suited to do it. One problem, when there are stories about women teachers raping young boys, (most often referred to as seducing them), way too many men will comment on how "hot" the teacher is, and how they wished they'd had a teacher like her when they were young, BUT, if it's a male teacher preying on girls, they go wild and talk about how he should be, to put it politely, neutered, and put in jail for the rest of his life with a cell mate, always named big bubba, to give him what he did to the girl.