SDoes God decide who goes to hell?

quote:

Originally posted by hooberstank

All you've demonstrated is your obtuseness. If you jump off a 500 foot cliff believing you can fly and then die, did you kill yourself or did gravity kill you? If you break a law, be it physical, judicial, or spiritual, there will be repercusionsy.

Well, I personally chose typo jump off the cliff. I know and understand the laws of gravity. Death is the result.

But I would not choose to go to hell. I would resist it. So again somebody would have to toss me into the lake of fire. Who is that person if not your invisible friend?

You cannot admit to yourself that you loving compassionate god is the capricious, hateful being that set these rules up to begin with and enforces them when ever he gets a chance.

EG...lets say you are going to Wooster, Ohio(ie Heaven)...you want to be in Wooster but not enough to bother looking at a map or... in this day turning on the garmin. Now I know someone will say that eventually you may find your way there through trial and error and road signs....but for hypothetical reasons just bear with me. How difficult would it be to get there? Jesus says He is the Way ...the Truth...and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Him. He is your road map to heaven. Now lets say you chose a wrong road because you didn't read your map. You end up in Bangor, Maine.(ie.Hell) Now because you chose not to use the map to show you the way.. you have ended up in Maine(hell). Not where you wanted to go(heaven). But say now you are in Maine and you are mad because the map didn't force itself on you to show you the way. See how silly this is? God has designed you a way to get there but He will not force you to use the map. God is not playing Barbie's with us. He wants us to love Him because we choose to. And if you end up in hell...it was because you didn't follow the way provided. Now do you see how God doesn't send you to hell ...you send yourself?

I hope no one thinks I am partial to Wooster or picking on Bangor. I chose those two places at random. I have never been to either place and I am sure they are both nice places.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Everlasting Godstopper:

quote:

IT IS YOUR CHOICE!
YOU ultimately make the choice of going to hell. You have to step over and avoid listening to the many ways that God is trying to reach you to go to hell...obviously you are ok with that.

savin', I've already said I would not choose hell for no one, especially myself. Som SOMEONE will have to force that on me. That someone is evidently your loving, compassionate, kind, everlovin God.

It is (somehow) me who tosses myself into fire? That is absurd! Why in the world would I do that? If I have a choice, I choose NOT to go to the lake of fire. So therefore someone will have to force me into the pit. The only person I know of that could do that is either God Himself. So you and all your friend's insistence that *I* have a choice in the matter is absurd. From the outside looking in it appears that your "infinitely kind, loving, compassionate" Father set up the rules for all this in the Beginning. The rewards and punishment are very clear: God says "If you use your brain to determine my non-existence I will personally see to it that you go burn in everlasting hell for all eternity."

Nice "choice" there Yahweh.

I'm gonna put this in kid like simple terms for you... You do understand that belief in God is a necessity to get to Heaven where God reigns right?? I mean... I know that may have flown right over your head. But that kinda is the point of the Bible... oh wait.. You've shown over and over again that you have zero understanding of the Bible, and choose to keep it that way.... nevermind. lol

Once again, very simple... THERE IS ONE WAY TO HEAVEN.... God is perfection, God cannot allow imperfection into Heaven, we are imperfect. Jesus' blood is the only atonement for our sin. We truely in our hearts believe that Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate sacrifice for our imperfections, thus God looks at us through the perfect blood of Jesus and we are perfect in his eyes as we come to our day of judgement. So, the choice is, accept Jesus or deny Jesus. Accepting Him grants us everlasting life in Heaven, denying him leaves us eternally separated from Him in Hell. THAT is your choice. Understand?? That is the cliff notes of salvation. Can't get it any easier, so if you can't grasp that, move on to the "news" forum because religion definately ain't for you. lol

Ok Peter,

Since you seem to like everything put from a kids point of view, I will address you with such. LOL

A child believes in a Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, right? LOL However when they grow up most put those kinds of fairy tales behind them and realized that they are not real.LOL Some kids apparently only grow out of certain fairy tales and hold on to others.LOL You seem to be one of those kids that held on to the biggest one of all.LOL

So because some of us other kids grew up and read a science book or two, we got passed all those childhood falsehoods. Including your scary god figure that knows when we are sleeping, that knows when we're a wake, who knows if we've been bad or good.LOL Oh for goodness sake! LOL

Now here we are, all grown up and not afraid of the dark, or monsters under our beds, and the big scary sky god that will send us to eternal ****ation if we don't worship, love, adore and forsake all things logical and real. LOL

But kids like you will still jump up and down and say nana nana boo boo your going to hell! LOL Why? You say because we don't believe in jesus. We ask again why? You say because you choose to. We say I never chose to go anywhere after death, I will be dead. You kids say, uh huh, you did choose to go because you grew up and learned all about evolution, and science and stopped believing in our sky fairy. So just for that he is going to send you to hell, because you choose to go.LOL

How much sense does that make Peter? I hope I put it in childish enough language that you can grasp it with both hands. If we say we don't believe, how can we be choosing to be in torment for eternity? LOL Thats like saying if you don't believe in Santa then you won't get any presents. I have been getting them steadily since I stopped believing at age 7. I had more proof of Santa than I do your sky fairy. At least the milk and cookies were gone and I got what I ask for when I sent him a letter. LOL

Seriously your gods choice is like I said before, the same as the burglar who points a gun at your head and says "Do what I say and I won't kill you" That is not a choice. That is a demand.

To my christian friends here in the forum, Peter and his kid analogies and his excessive use of LOL had to be addressed. Everyone else in this conversation please disregard. It is not pointed at you. Well maybe you BG. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Everlasting Godstopper:

quote:

Originally posted by hooberstank
All you've demonstrated is your obtuseness. If you jump off a 500 foot cliff believing you can fly and then die, did you kill yourself or did gravity kill you? If you break a law, be it physical, judicial, or spiritual, there will be repercussions.

Well, I personally chose typo (sic) jump off the cliff. I know and understand the laws of gravity. Death is the result. But I would not choose to go to hell. I would resist it. So again somebody would have to toss me into the lake of fire. Who is that person if not your invisible friend? You cannot admit to yourself that you loving compassionate god is the capricious, hateful being that set these rules up to begin with and enforces them when ever he gets a chance.

Hi Mr. Hoob,

Trying to reason with this FISHy character is like talking with a wall. He reminds me of the type who will break into a home to rob them -- and, then sue the homeowners because he cut his hand breaking the window to get into the house.

And, you will notice that, in his true good natured atheist style, he has mangled your name in the "Originally posted by:" area. I would say that this person has no class -- and, eerily, reminds me of a FISHy fellow, also an atheist, who, a couple of years ago, wrote an e-mail to my wife posing as a woman -- and claiming to have had an affair with me at a computer convention.

The only thing my lame Friend did not know is that my wife always went with me to all the computer conventions. So, when this supposed illicit affair was to have occurred; my wife and I were having a steak and lobster dinner.

When that didn't work, he took a photo of me from a web site -- doctored it -- and tried to use it as his avatar. Of course, the TD mods put a quick stop to that.

Yes, it would seem that our old nemesis is back -- and with no better posting manners. And, he is still totally oblivious to the beauty and wonders of God all around him -- possibly because he wanders around in his total spiritual blindness.

Hoob, hang in there. His team has already lost the war; they just are not smart enough to realize it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

EASTER QUIZ
1. Who first came to the tomb on Sunday morning?
a. one woman (John 20:1)
b. two women (Matt. 28:1)
c. three women (Mark 16:1)
d. more than three women (Luke 23:55-56; 24:1,10)
2. She (they) came
a. while it was still dark (Matt. 28:1; John 20:1)
b. after the sun had risen (Mark 16:2)

3. The woman (women) came to the tomb
a. to anoint the body of Jesus with spices (Mark 16:1-2; Luke 24:1)
b. just to look at it (Matt. 28:1; John 20:1)

4. The women had obtained the spices
a. on Friday before sunset (Luke 23:54-56; 24:1)
a. after sunset on Saturday (Mark 16:1)

5. The first visitor(s) was/were greeted by
a. an angel (Matt. 28:2-5)
b. a young man (Mark 16:5)
c. two men (Luke 24:4)
d. no one (John 20:1-2)

6. The greeter(s)
a. was sitting on the stone outside the tomb (Matt 28:2)
b. was sitting inside the tomb (Mark 16:5)
c. were standing inside the tomb (Luke 24:3-4)

7. After finding the tomb empty, the woman/women
a. ran to tell the disciples (Matt. 28:7-8; Mark 16:10; Luke 24:9; John 20:2)
b. ran away and said nothing to anyone (Mark 16:8)

8. The risen Jesus first appeared to
a. Mary Magdalene alone (John 20:14; Mark 16:9)
b. Cleopas and another disciple (Luke 24:13,15,18)
c. Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matt. 28:1,9)
d. Cephas (Peter) alone (1 Cor. 15:4-5; Luke 24:34)

9. Jesus first appeared
a. somewhere between the tomb and Jerusalem (Matt. 28:8-9)
b. just outside the tomb (John 20:11-14)
c. in Galilee - some 80 miles (130 Km) north of Jerusalem (Mark 16:6-7)
d. on the road to Emmaus - Miles (11 Km) west of Jerusalem (Luke 24:13-15)
e. we are not told where (Mark 16:9; 1 Cor. 15:4-5)

10. The disciples were to see Jesus first
a. in Galilee (Mark 16:7; Matt. 28:7,10,16)
b. in Jerusalem (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:33,36; John 20:19; Acts 1:4)

11. The disciples were told that they would meet the risen Jesus in Galilee
a. by the women, who had been told by an angel of the Lord, then by Jesus
himself after the resurrection (Matt. 28:7-10; Mark 16:7)
b. by Jesus himself, before the crucifiction (Mark 26:32)

12. The risen Jesus
a. wanted to be touched (John 20:27)
b. did not want to be touched (John 20:17)
c. did not mind being touched (Matt. 28:9-10)

13. Jesus ascended to Heaven
a. the same day that he was resurrected (Mark 16:9,19; Luke 24:13,28-36,50-51)
b. forty days after the resurrection (Acts 1:3,9)
c. we are not told that he ascended to Heaven at all (Matt. 28:10, 16-20;
John 21:25; the original Gospel of Mark ends at 16:8)

14. The disciples received the Holy Spirit
a. 50 days after the resurrection (Acts 1:3,9)
b. in the evening of the same day as the resurrection (John 20:19-22)

15. The risen Jesus
a. was recognized by those who saw him (Matt. 28:9; Mark 16:9-10)
b. was not always recognizable (Mark 16:12; Luke 24:15-16,31,36-37; John 20:14-15)

16. The risen Jesus
a. was physical (Matt. 28:9; Luke 24:41-43; John 20:27)
b. was not physical (Mark 16:9,12,14; Luke 24:15-16,31,36-37; John 20:19,26; 1 Cor. 15:5-8)

17. The risen Jesus was seen by the disciples
a. presumably only once (Matt. 28:16-17)
b. first by two of them, later by all eleven (Mark 16:12-14; Luke 24:13-15,33,36-51)
c. three times (John 20:19,26; 21:1,14)
d. many times (Acts 1:3)

18. When Jesus appeared to the disciples
a. there were eleven of them (Matt. 28:16-17; Luke 24:33,36)
b. twelve of them (1 Cor. 15:5)

quote:

Originally posted by savinforarainyday:
EG...lets say you are going to Wooster, Ohio(ie Heaven)...you want to be in Wooster but not enough to bother looking at a map or... in this day turning on the garmin. Now I know someone will say that eventually you may find your way there through trial and error and road signs....but for hypothetical reasons just bear with me. How difficult would it be to get there? Jesus says He is the Way ...the Truth...and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Him. He is your road map to heaven. Now lets say you chose a wrong road because you didn't read your map. You end up in Bangor, Maine.(ie.Hell) Now because you chose not to use the map to show you the way.. you have ended up in Maine(hell). Not where you wanted to go(heaven). But say now you are in Maine and you are mad because the map didn't force itself on you to show you the way. See how silly this is? God has designed you a way to get there but He will not force you to use the map. God is not playing Barbie's with us. He wants us to love Him because we choose to. And if you end up in hell...it was because you didn't follow the way provided. Now do you see how God doesn't send you to hell ...you send yourself?

Interesting analogy. During the Cold War in the Soviet Union the maps were intentionally misleading, worthless by their very nature. How do you know you have the right map? What if Buddha is the better cartographer?

Bill Gray is not nearly as Crazy as most of you think he is, your Problem is you don't know anything about the Bible, but you want to argue about it.

it is true that if you go to Hell it will be because you didn't care enough to try to save yourself, God made you a Free Moral Agent and gave you the ability to do right or wrong, and it is up to you to choose, and Judgement day you will be brought before the lord to recieve your reward, whether it is good or bad.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

you Athiests get ready, it is going to break your Heart when you have to bend the Knee and confess that Jesus is the Christ.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then each one of us shall give account of himself to God.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

Yet you, and many like you, come in and do that about God... which in your mind(as an atheist) God should be the same as sasquatch is in mine. If you don't believe, fine... More power to you. But if you think it's silly to believe in God, why do you evangelize against the belief in Him?

So what would your response be if I started a discussion stating that the only path to eternal salvation is through Muhammad? Or Buddha? Or Zeus? Or L Ron Hubbard?

Would you rail against me because I am not arguing for a Christian point of view, that I have no business on the religion forum?

"Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Found this online-I like it

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:

1) If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2) If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it?"

Top Ten Signs that You're a Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
"Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?
Found this online-I like it

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:

1) If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2) If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it?"

Jennifer, please don't make light of such an important question. As we all know, all the tormented souls now reside in the center of earth. What happens to them will have a direct causal effect on us.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Top Ten Signs that You're a Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.

Jennifer

I do not fit in any of the 10 categories.
But there are people who call themselves christians that run around acting like a "south park parody" of what a christian is.

I want to make it clear, I believe very much that non-christians do go to heaven.

There's a quote in the bible that says not to talk about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, I'll have to post that. I don't like to hear people do that either.


**** I've never seen anyone speak in tongues. Has anyone actually seen that, other than on a tv documentary? *****

Hi David,

You tell Jennifer, "Jennifer, I do not fit in any of the 10 categories. But there are people who call themselves christians that run around acting like a "south park parody" of what a christian is. I want to make it clear, I believe very much that non-christians do go to heaven."

David, by saying that, you are saying that Jesus Christ lied to us. How else can you explain these Scripture verses?

John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.'"

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'"

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

John 5:24, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:40, "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 10:27-28, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'"

David, Jesus tells us over and over again -- that the ONLY WAY to have eternal life with God -- IS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. He tells us, "no one comes to the Father but through Me." What does this mean? It means that only those who, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- will see heaven.

Next, you tell Jennifer, "There's a quote in the bible that says not to talk about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, I'll have to post that. I don't like to hear people do that either."

I am very interested in seeing that Scripture verse or passage also. For Jesus speaks quite a bit in the Bible about heaven and hell. And, in the Scripture verses above, He makes it very clear that ONLY those who, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, i.e., Christian believers -- will see heaven.

So, from that we know that those who do not believe, those who reject Jesus Christ, do not go to heaven -- and, this is telling us that those people will go to hell. Those are the only two choices. Receive Him -- go to heaven. Reject Him -- go to hell. Simple as that.

Finally, you ask, "I've never seen anyone speak in tongues. Has anyone actually seen that, other than on a tv documentary?"

Yes, I have. Even though tongues is Biblical, in my church we do not practice this. But, about 8 or 9 years ago, three of the older people in our church went to the pastor for prayer. Since there were three of them, and three of us elders -- the pastor asked us to pray for them. I prayed for a dear older lady, Maggie.

Later, my pastor asked if I noticed that Maggie was praying in tongues as I prayed for her. I had noticed that she was softly speaking something; but, I could not tell what she was saying -- so, I thought she was only praying in agreement with me. And, maybe she was -- but, she was doing it in tongues.

The way I view tongues -- I know it is Biblical -- but, I do not believe it is for everyone. We are told in 1 Corinthians 12:27-30, "Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?"

As we are told in this Scripture passage; we each are given different gifts. Tongues is not one of my spiritual gifts. But, as long as a person does not disturb the worship service or distract those who are worshiping and studying God's Word -- then, God bless them, let them speak in tongues. If this makes them feel more spiritual, if it makes them feel closer to God -- why hinder them? Just my feelings.

But, David, I do want to hear more about your understanding that non-believers, people who have rejected Jesus Christ -- will still go to heaven.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill,

Kenneth J. Howill from Catholic Answers explains:

We know from Scripture that Christ and the Church are necessary, but we also don’t know how many people without a conscious and explicit knowledge of Christ may still be united to him in a way known only to God.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Just live your life the way you want. If you do the right thing because it feels right and makes you feel better about yourself, that's wonderful. If you don't want to be a decent person that does the right thing, I would have a problem with that, but would hope/think that society will take care of you if you get really out of hand. If you do something really bad, don't whine to me that you "got religion" and now you can be out among us again. I will never get over the so called Christians that argued in Karla Faye Tucker's (and others like her) favor. Now that did make me want to puke.

But where do you get your standard of doing "right" and "wrong"... That's such garbage for a true atheist to say. If you truely believe there is no God who created all(including moral standards that I bet even you live by) then you believe we are no different from animals in the wild. Out of all the billions of species of life over all the years, why is it that ONLY HUMANS DEVELOPED THIS CRAZY LITTLE THING CALLED MORALITY?? Why only HUMANS??? Please explain SCIENTIFICALLY!! Why do no other creatures in all of time show our ability to create a moral foundation of life for society to follow universally?

You learn right and wrong by seeing the consequences of both. At an early age you see how doing right affects people in a positive manner while doing wrong has the opposite effect. And don't spew your garbage at me for being an atheist, I can come right back at you for your beliefs. The difference in you and me is I at least try to be polite. I'll say it again, if a person is only doing what's right out of fear it doesn't mean a thing. Why would anyone try to explain anything to someone that believes in fairy tales? It's just a waste of time and energy. Humans are just a higher evolved form of animal. There are so many holes in the theory of God that it looks like swiss cheese. "God created the heavens and the earth", "Adam and Eve were the first humans", "God made Eve from Adam's rib", oh please. AND how many years ago did all this take place? A few thousand. So now explain the humans and animals on earth MILLIONS of years before Adam and Eve.

Ahhh.. so your SCIENTIFIC explaination is that we are simply a "higher evolved form of animal" huh??? Wow... thanks for that in-depth analysis. lol

I never said Adam and Eve were the first humans first of all... and also, I think it is awesome that you were around for MILLIONS of years to know that there were humans and animals around for that long before Adam and Eve... dang, I'd been wonderin about that... lol
Does the thought of God creating man and the universe seem tough to grasp... sure it does, even for me, a true believer. But the "fairy tale" you say I believe takes no more faith to believe in than your way... that your gods "Nothingness" and "Randomness" just magically poofed into all of creation. That's the thing.. you try to put yourself on an intellectual pedestal because folks like me require faith for our beliefs, when you must apply just as much faith for your belief.

and I thought this part of your post was telling.... "Why would anyone try to explain anything to someone that believes in fairy tales? It's just a waste of time and energy. ". I made the point on another thread about sasquatch. I don't believe in sasquatch, but I'm not in a sasquatch forum screamin about how stupid it is to believe in him... Yet you, and many like you, come in and do that about God... which in your mind(as an atheist) God should be the same as sasquatch is in mine. If you don't believe, fine... More power to you. But if you think it's silly to believe in God, why do you evangelize against the belief in Him?

Show me where I screamed anything much less how stupid it is for you to believe. Where did I "evangelize" against your belief? I said, IF you believe, fine. Just stop telling non-believers how unhappy, lost, etc. they are. It seems to me it's you that is unhappy, miserable and unfulfilled. Now, if you don't agree that there was life on earth millions of years ago, argue with scientists. mmmm, wonder where that rumor got started. YOU said my views were atheist garbage, I replied in kind. Now have a nice evening. I know I will without fear. One last thing, you and your ilk are the best argument AGAINST religion, plus you lied. Show me where I said sasquatch was a god. You can twist words to fit your agenda if you want, it won't change the facts. Who'd want to be like you?

I'm not trying to convert you... just explain that faith is a massive part of both of our point of views... and once again... I didn't say you said sasquatch was a god!!! LOL... Does NOFREAKINBODY GET ANALOGIES ANYMORE!!! hehe.. I was simply stating, that I think it's silly that folks really believe in sasquatch, you think it's silly that folks really believe in God... For me to rail against sasquatch believers would be silly, for an atheist to rail against God believers is silly... because to atheists, God is imaginary, to me, sasquatch is imaginary... that simple. lol
And I don't totally disagree that life was on earth millions of years ago.... just that we simply do not have facts as to that. We have several OPPOSING scientific THEORIES using carbon dating.... But no one can say for sure how long the universe, earth, or life on earth has existed.

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

Yet you, and many like you, come in and do that about God... which in your mind(as an atheist) God should be the same as sasquatch is in mine. If you don't believe, fine... More power to you. But if you think it's silly to believe in God, why do you evangelize against the belief in Him?

So what would your response be if I started a discussion stating that the only path to eternal salvation is through Muhammad? Or Buddha? Or Zeus? Or L Ron Hubbard?

Would you rail against me because I am not arguing for a Christian point of view, that I have no business on the religion forum?

Nope.. those are, and keyword here, RELIGION BASED BELIEFS.... Atheists say they are above the silliness of religion... Unless you are willing to admit, as I have said many times, that atheism itself is a religion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jennifer:
Top Ten Signs that You're a Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your god.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Trinity god.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loop-holes in the scientifically established age of the Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects -- will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet you consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving".

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to prove Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history -- but still call yourself a Christian.

I like some of these Jenn....

10. I actually don't deny the existence of those gods... There are a ton of gods... but only on Creator God.

9. There is a difference... coming from tadpoles compared to created in the image of God... hmmmmm.. which one seems more human?

8. Trinity God, is one God... study up on that. you are attempting to use finite human brain power to understand an omnipresent God. That is like solving a calculus derivative with that solar power calculator you used in the 3rd grade.

7. You forgot when God wiped the entire earth clean except for Noah and his family. ;-)

6. LMAO!!! That's too good...

5. No loop-holes needed, there are many contradictory scientific studies on carbon dating, and the age of the earth. I don't claim to know how old it is, nor do I care. These are irrelevant arguements.

4. Once again... simple... only perfection can be allowed into Heaven... the only way for us, who are all imperfect, to be seen as perfect through the eyes of God is with the blood of Jesus Christ. If He were intolerant, he would've never given us that ultimate sacrifice.

3. Speaking in touges is misused in modern day. That was in reference to those who's tounges and ears were touched by God so they could speak and understand all the languages of the earth. Not some silly idiot totin around a snake and speakin jibberish.

2. Don't be shocked here... I agree with you. We as Christians have a bad habit of trying to make God a magician. That is not Biblical of modern times. The will of God will be carried out in the end times, until then we are to live Christ-like lives and what happens is what happens. God doesn't cause it, God doesn't fix it.

1. Once again.. you are absolutely correct. WAAAYYY too many Christians do not know enough about the Bible to debate with anyone about it. However... WWAAAAYYYY too many Atheists say they know a whole lot more about it, but lack any comprehension of it to debate about it intelligently

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Everlasting Godstopper:

quote:

IT IS YOUR CHOICE!
YOU ultimately make the choice of going to hell. You have to step over and avoid listening to the many ways that God is trying to reach you to go to hell...obviously you are ok with that.

savin', I've already said I would not choose hell for no one, especially myself. Som SOMEONE will have to force that on me. That someone is evidently your loving, compassionate, kind, everlovin God.

It is (somehow) me who tosses myself into fire? That is absurd! Why in the world would I do that? If I have a choice, I choose NOT to go to the lake of fire. So therefore someone will have to force me into the pit. The only person I know of that could do that is either God Himself. So you and all your friend's insistence that *I* have a choice in the matter is absurd. From the outside looking in it appears that your "infinitely kind, loving, compassionate" Father set up the rules for all this in the Beginning. The rewards and punishment are very clear: God says "If you use your brain to determine my non-existence I will personally see to it that you go burn in everlasting hell for all eternity."

Nice "choice" there Yahweh.

I'm gonna put this in kid like simple terms for you... You do understand that belief in God is a necessity to get to Heaven where God reigns right?? I mean... I know that may have flown right over your head. But that kinda is the point of the Bible... oh wait.. You've shown over and over again that you have zero understanding of the Bible, and choose to keep it that way.... nevermind. lol

Once again, very simple... THERE IS ONE WAY TO HEAVEN.... God is perfection, God cannot allow imperfection into Heaven, we are imperfect. Jesus' blood is the only atonement for our sin. We truely in our hearts believe that Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate sacrifice for our imperfections, thus God looks at us through the perfect blood of Jesus and we are perfect in his eyes as we come to our day of judgement. So, the choice is, accept Jesus or deny Jesus. Accepting Him grants us everlasting life in Heaven, denying him leaves us eternally separated from Him in Hell. THAT is your choice. Understand?? That is the cliff notes of salvation. Can't get it any easier, so if you can't grasp that, move on to the "news" forum because religion definately ain't for you. lol

Ok Peter,

Since you seem to like everything put from a kids point of view, I will address you with such. LOL

A child believes in a Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, right? LOL However when they grow up most put those kinds of fairy tales behind them and realized that they are not real.LOL Some kids apparently only grow out of certain fairy tales and hold on to others.LOL You seem to be one of those kids that held on to the biggest one of all.LOL

So because some of us other kids grew up and read a science book or two, we got passed all those childhood falsehoods. Including your scary god figure that knows when we are sleeping, that knows when we're a wake, who knows if we've been bad or good.LOL Oh for goodness sake! LOL

Now here we are, all grown up and not afraid of the dark, or monsters under our beds, and the big scary sky god that will send us to eternal ****ation if we don't worship, love, adore and forsake all things logical and real. LOL

But kids like you will still jump up and down and say nana nana boo boo your going to hell! LOL Why? You say because we don't believe in jesus. We ask again why? You say because you choose to. We say I never chose to go anywhere after death, I will be dead. You kids say, uh huh, you did choose to go because you grew up and learned all about evolution, and science and stopped believing in our sky fairy. So just for that he is going to send you to hell, because you choose to go.LOL

How much sense does that make Peter? I hope I put it in childish enough language that you can grasp it with both hands. If we say we don't believe, how can we be choosing to be in torment for eternity? LOL Thats like saying if you don't believe in Santa then you won't get any presents. I have been getting them steadily since I stopped believing at age 7. I had more proof of Santa than I do your sky fairy. At least the milk and cookies were gone and I got what I ask for when I sent him a letter. LOL

Seriously your gods choice is like I said before, the same as the burglar who points a gun at your head and says "Do what I say and I won't kill you" That is not a choice. That is a demand.

To my christian friends here in the forum, Peter and his kid analogies and his excessive use of LOL had to be addressed. Everyone else in this conversation please disregard. It is not pointed at you. Well maybe you BG. LOL

But I must LOL... and even more at you.. LOL... because you have once again made my point for me.. LOL...LMAO!! lol...

You think of God in the same way you think of Santa... WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ON A FORUM ABOUT GOD???!!! LMAO!!!!

Seriously!!! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice, and if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the sky fairy isn't real.... Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny??? NO?? didn't think so... If God is so irrelevant to you, you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy on discussing Him............................... lol... sorry.. had to get one more in there. HA!

It's all in good fun with me folks, I don't get all tore up over this. I just try to keep it as common sensical as I can. I don't try to piss anyone off, I'm just a silly guy.

Who goes to hell is decided on a person-by-person basis. God lets us make that choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Tomme73:
Who goes to hell is decided on a person-by-person basis. God lets us make that choice.

Cool. I choose not to go there.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:

quote:

Originally posted by Tomme73:
Who goes to hell is decided on a person-by-person basis. God lets us make that choice.

Cool. I choose not to go there.

I wish the forum had a "like" button. That's a BIG choice that, unless made close to the end of your life, carries a great deal of responsibility and is not to be taken lightly.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:

quote:

Originally posted by Tomme73:
Who goes to hell is decided on a person-by-person basis. God lets us make that choice.

Cool. I choose not to go there.

Hi Deep,

How I wish that were true! Yet, you choose not to go there by opening the door of your heart and inviting Him to come in (Revelation 3:20).

Take His hand and He will guide you into heaven.

Refuse His hand -- and your slippery slope gets even more slippery.

Want to grab His hand?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

SIMPLE PROCEDURE:

Bill, are you nuts or what? Do you still believe you can take one who denies God and save them with them saying the "sinners prayer"?
Get real, a person must come to God in fear and trembling, and confess Jesus as the Son of God. Then follow what Peter and the others said.
There is no short cut to salvation. It must be done just as the bible says.

You so often make it appear so easy, but it's not.
That's why the Lord said few there be who find it. Remember, not every one who says to me Lord Lord will be admitted to His Kingdom.

quote:

Originally posted by themax:
Bill, are you nuts or what? Do you still believe you can take one who denies God and save them with them saying the "sinners prayer"?
Get real, a person must come to God in fear and trembling, and confess Jesus as the Son of God. Then follow what Peter and the others said.
There is no short cut to salvation. It must be done just as the bible says. You so often make it appear so easy, but it's not. That's why the Lord said few there be who find it. Remember, not every one who says to me Lord Lord will be admitted to His Kingdom.

Well, Max,

You just keep WORKING your way toward heaven. I already have my ticket on the Glory Train.

But, if I get there first, I will tell Jesus Christ you are on your way -- but, you are still trying to figure out how WORK your way there.

I am sure that will get a smile out of Him.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill, I'm sure God will hang on your every word.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, I'm sure God will hang on your every word.

AND, YOUR'S TOO! - THAT'S THE WAY HE IS! - DO YOU HAVE YOUR TICKET YET?

Now see Bill, we have a disconnect there. I don't see Heaven's path as a ride on a bullet train.

So no, I don't have nor am I looking for my ticket.

I am reading and praying for understanding and doing my best to be a good caring soul everyday, but there again, I slip and fall some days.

Some days I get really banged up ,soul wise, but I'm still kicking.

But you keep your ticket Bill, if you believe you have one, I'll get there another way, and be happy for the trip.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Bill, are you nuts or what? Do you still believe you can take one who denies God and save them with them saying the "sinners prayer"?
Get real, a person must come to God in fear and trembling, and confess Jesus as the Son of God. Then follow what Peter and the others said.
There is no short cut to salvation. It must be done just as the bible says. You so often make it appear so easy, but it's not. That's why the Lord said few there be who find it. Remember, not every one who says to me Lord Lord will be admitted to His Kingdom.


Well, Max,

You just keep WORKING your way toward heaven. I already have my ticket on the Glory Train.

But, if I get there first, I will tell Jesus Christ you are on your way -- but, you are still trying to figure out how WORK your way there.

I am sure that will get a smile out of Him.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill respond to beter's post or should I say posts, regarding the once saved always saved idea you hold on to.
The question and Scriptures have been put forth to you several times. You always seem to happy dance your way around the facts.

You said you would answer in your own time. I guess that would be on the 12th of never.

House of David ripped you so bad I doubt you can ever recover. And I to don't believe the Catholic, um what could I call it, ways of believing.
But he/she made you look so bad I felt sorry for you.
By the way, works without faith is dead.

quote:

You just keep WORKING your way toward heaven. I already have my ticket on the Glory Train.

So Bill, this is a simple question.
IS your life on earth from this day forward of any consequence to your eternal resting place?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:


But I must LOL... and even more at you.. LOL... because you have once again made my point for me.. LOL...LMAO!! lol...

You think of God in the same way you think of Santa... WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ON A FORUM ABOUT GOD???!!! LMAO!!!!

Seriously!!! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice, and if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the sky fairy isn't real.... Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny??? NO?? didn't think so... If God is so irrelevant to you, you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy on discussing Him............................... lol... sorry.. had to get one more in there. HA!

It's all in good fun with me folks, I don't get all tore up over this. I just try to keep it as common sensical as I can. I don't try to piss anyone off, I'm just a silly guy.

Who says I am wasting my time? I get so much entertainment out of you and others like you. There is nothing on TV nearly as good as this.

When christians stop trying to force creationism into our public school systems, or make laws based on their religion I will care less about your god and beliefs than I do about Santa Claus. God is as irrelevant to me as you will allow him to be.

Someone else tried to explain this to you in another thread but you just brushed right by the meaning of the post. No one is trying to govern us or disregard true science with there belief in Santa Claus.

Do you get it now? Should I go back to using kids in my explanation since you seem to want to make all your points from that view?

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:


But I must LOL... and even more at you.. LOL... because you have once again made my point for me.. LOL...LMAO!! lol...

You think of God in the same way you think of Santa... WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ON A FORUM ABOUT GOD???!!! LMAO!!!!

Seriously!!! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice, and if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the sky fairy isn't real.... Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny??? NO?? didn't think so... If God is so irrelevant to you, you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy on discussing Him............................... lol... sorry.. had to get one more in there. HA!

It's all in good fun with me folks, I don't get all tore up over this. I just try to keep it as common sensical as I can. I don't try to piss anyone off, I'm just a silly guy.

Who says I am wasting my time? I get so much entertainment out of you and others like you. There is nothing on TV nearly as good as this.

When christians stop trying to force creationism into our public school systems, or make laws based on their religion I will care less about your god and beliefs than I do about Santa Claus. God is as irrelevant to me as you will allow him to be.

Someone else tried to explain this to you in another thread but you just brushed right by the meaning of the post. No one is trying to govern us or disregard true science with there belief in Santa Claus.

Do you get it now? Should I go back to using kids in my explanation since you seem to want to make all your points from that view?

jank dear.

Being the prophet and visionary, I’m going to have to call your hand on what you claim as a concern of yours.

First of all Christians are not trying to have religion taught in schools. Any isolated cases where someone might say a prayer before a ballgame does not qualify as any proof of your claim. As a matter of fact all incidents combined disappear an any scale that might result in religion being taught in schools.

It ain’t gonna happen .OK stop looking like idiots.

It is obvious you, billy, nagel, slim deep and Co. have no qualms when it comes to lying.

The Company and atheist are the biggest fibbers of all.

Just admit Christianity is a threat to a lifestyle.

Hey ding ! Ding! Ding!! Folks don’t care. Don’t try and make someone else miserable.

Deep claims he is the savior of the (spoken in a low voice then as a sigh) chuuulren.

He thinks involving children will act as a smokescreen for his real agenda. Akin da foo.

Look, y’all give the conversation a break everyone sees you hiding behind the needle.

Bottom line; relax , carry on . Y’all are boring as hell.

quote:

Bottom line; relax , carry on . Y’all are boring as hell.

And you are as confusing as ever. You state God is a man-made entity then insult the atheists for the same view while pretending to be a religious man.

You don't know what you believe.

Heh. Methinks Bill's gonna be PULLING that "Glory Train." Uh-huh. Yep.

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
Bottom line; relax , carry on . Y’all are boring as hell.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
And you are as confusing as ever. You state God is a man-made entity then insult the atheists for the same view while pretending to be a religious man.

You don't know what you believe.

Sad thing is that he probably really believes he's a Christian, as does Bill Gray.

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:


But I must LOL... and even more at you.. LOL... because you have once again made my point for me.. LOL...LMAO!! lol...

You think of God in the same way you think of Santa... WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ON A FORUM ABOUT GOD???!!! LMAO!!!!

Seriously!!! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice, and if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the sky fairy isn't real.... Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny??? NO?? didn't think so... If God is so irrelevant to you, you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy on discussing Him............................... lol... sorry.. had to get one more in there. HA!

It's all in good fun with me folks, I don't get all tore up over this. I just try to keep it as common sensical as I can. I don't try to piss anyone off, I'm just a silly guy.

Who says I am wasting my time? I get so much entertainment out of you and others like you. There is nothing on TV nearly as good as this.

When christians stop trying to force creationism into our public school systems, or make laws based on their religion I will care less about your god and beliefs than I do about Santa Claus. God is as irrelevant to me as you will allow him to be.

Someone else tried to explain this to you in another thread but you just brushed right by the meaning of the post. No one is trying to govern us or disregard true science with there belief in Santa Claus.

Do you get it now? Should I go back to using kids in my explanation since you seem to want to make all your points from that view?

Hmmmmm... I don't think anyone is forcing Christianity on schools... On the contrary, those who's goal it is to take God out of schools are the one defying OUR Constitution. Government run schools are the flaw of our governing body, not letting folks pray in those schools.

Also... Do you like America? Do you like the foundation set forth by our founding fathers? Do you like the principles THEY said were a perfect setting for a strong and vibrant country? Because they were pretty clear about the use of God in their work of getting us that sweet set up we have here. I mentioned earlier, even Thomas Jefferson who did not believe Jesus to be God in flesh as the Bible teaches, still believed we should use the principles of the Bible as our moral compass in this country.

So, are you saying our founding fathers were wrong too? And where are these slue of "christian based" policies that you are talking about?


ps... don't get mad at me for bringing up the founding fathers... you hitched you arguement to politics first...

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by Jankinonya:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:


But I must LOL... and even more at you.. LOL... because you have once again made my point for me.. LOL...LMAO!! lol...

You think of God in the same way you think of Santa... WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ON A FORUM ABOUT GOD???!!! LMAO!!!!

Seriously!!! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice, and if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the sky fairy isn't real.... Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny??? NO?? didn't think so... If God is so irrelevant to you, you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy on discussing Him............................... lol... sorry.. had to get one more in there. HA!

It's all in good fun with me folks, I don't get all tore up over this. I just try to keep it as common sensical as I can. I don't try to piss anyone off, I'm just a silly guy.

Who says I am wasting my time? I get so much entertainment out of you and others like you. There is nothing on TV nearly as good as this.

When christians stop trying to force creationism into our public school systems, or make laws based on their religion I will care less about your god and beliefs than I do about Santa Claus. God is as irrelevant to me as you will allow him to be.

Someone else tried to explain this to you in another thread but you just brushed right by the meaning of the post. No one is trying to govern us or disregard true science with there belief in Santa Claus.

Do you get it now? Should I go back to using kids in my explanation since you seem to want to make all your points from that view?

Hmmmmm... I don't think anyone is forcing Christianity on schools... On the contrary, those who's goal it is to take God out of schools are the one defying OUR Constitution. Government run schools are the flaw of our governing body, not letting folks pray in those schools.

If we atheists and secularist didn't insist on up holding the constitution, then yes christianity would be in our public schools again. There was a thread here about 2 weeks ago where some of the forum members argued quite strongly for creationism to be taught in science class. I should back up here and say that there are many christian people who feel the same way I do about religion being taught in our public schools. They understand that to keep their religious freedoms as the constitution has provided for then they must insist on separation of church and state.

Have you kept up with what is going on in Texas? The school board is re writing history to more reflect what they think shows our country as a christian nation. Show me where in the constitution that our founding fathers wrote that this should be a christian nation. Its not there. They were very careful to make sure that christianity did not have any kind of "leg up" on any other religion or lack there of.

quote:

Also... Do you like America? Do you like the foundation set forth by our founding fathers? Do you like the principles THEY said were a perfect setting for a strong and vibrant country? Because they were pretty clear about the use of God in their work of getting us that sweet set up we have here. I mentioned earlier, even Thomas Jefferson who did not believe Jesus to be God in flesh as the Bible teaches, still believed we should use the principles of the Bible as our moral compass in this country.

Of course I more than like America. It is my country. I have the same rights that you do provided by that document that our founding fathers put forth. As I said show me in the constitution where christianity was set up as the national religion. Or anything even close. By using the word god they did not specify any religion over another. Muslims have a god, Hindu's have gods. As far as what Thomas Jefferson believed or thought about what religion should have precedence I think you will find he had a complete different take on the subject than what you are trying to portray here. The bible has very little if any real evidence of a democratic society. What our founding fathers set up was no where near what the bible taught.

quote:

So, are you saying our founding fathers were wrong too? And where are these slue of "christian based" policies that you are talking about?

If you would do a little research you will find that christians of that day fought hard against the constitution. Especially where no man is required to pass any religious test to hold office. I for one am very happy with the way the constitution was written. Christians have been trying to rewrite it for 2 centuries and I hope they never succeed. We will no longer be the country that our founding fathers envisioned if that day ever comes. So no I am not saying our founding fathers were wrong, I am saying that those who want to put religion into our schools, and laws are wrong. As for a slew of laws, so far so good. True constitutionist have succeeded in holding the radical christian agenda back pretty well. Which brings us back to why atheist post on religious forums. Our work is never done as long as there are those that pose a threat to our freedoms and rights.

quote:

ps... don't get mad at me for bringing up the founding fathers... you hitched you arguement to politics first...

When you are discussing what our constitution says about religion then yes this is the forum for that topic. The problem I had with your post before were due to the fact that you wouldn't or couldn't answer my questions about christianity and charity without railing against our current president. Even after I ask you specific question that were not political in any shape or form. I hope you understand the difference.

P.S. (this is mostly for buffy because he loves for me to bring this one up) A perfect example of a law that is based on christianity is our blue laws. Why should I not be able to buy alcohol on Sundays?

Jank my dear,

Citizens are unable to purchase trinitrotoluene on Sunday

This ought to be fun.

Petah said:

quote:

Government run schools are the flaw of our governing body

Petah,

What would be your Constitutional alternative?

Best,

BJBG

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
This ought to be fun. Petah said: "Government run schools are the flaw of our governing body" Petah, What would be your Constitutional alternative?

Hi Deep,

Well, the first positive step would be to dismantle the Federal Board of Education. As you can see from their Org Chart below -- education is the last thing on the minds of the Board of Education.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html?src=ln

In 1980, Congress established the Department of Education as a Cabinet level agency. Today, ED operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and some 56 million students attending roughly 99,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 14 million postsecondary students.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill