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On the Shoals Patriots' web site, there is a question:"Who are we?"

The answer immediately below the question lists 14 things that the Patriots claim to be. he very first item listed is "We are Christians."

It would appear, then, that with regard to membership requirements, the Shoals Patriots do not accept atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Baha'i, Druids, Shintoists, Rosicrucians, Unitarian-Universalists, Deists, or adherents to any belief system other than Christian.

The Constitution of the United States and the Constitutions of most, if not all, of the states forbid the use of a religious test for public office. Thus, the qualifications for membership in the Shoals Patriots seem, in this regard, to be more stringent than the qualifications for President of the U.S., Governor of a state, or Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court or any other court of law.

Or do I presume too much? Are the Shoals Patriots "Christians" at this point in their evolution simply because no non Christians have yet sought membership?

To clarify the matter, I make this simple request. If any Shoals Patriot is reading this, please advise just what the response of the organization would be should a known atheist, Buddhist, etc. show up at one of your meetings, seek out the membership chairman or whoever is in charge in the membership area, and ask to be accepted as a member.
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quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
Saw the heading of the thread, knew it was you. I don't see anything that says, Non-Christians need not apply. Thanks for our morning bucket of slop.


The first thing listed is "We are Christians," which would seem to imply that it is a very important quality to the members of the group, so just because it doesn't say "need not apply," it very well could be assumed, and makes beternu's question a very relative one.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
On the Shoals Patriots' web site, there is a question:"Who are we?"

The answer immediately below the question lists 14 things that the Patriots claim to be. he very first item listed is "We are Christians."

It would appear, then, that with regard to membership requirements, the Shoals Patriots do not accept atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Baha'i, Druids, Shintoists, Rosicrucians, Unitarian-Universalists, Deists, or adherents to any belief system other than Christian.

The Constitution of the United States and the Constitutions of most, if not all, of the states forbid the use of a religious test for public office. Thus, the qualifications for membership in the Shoals Patriots seem, in this regard, to be more stringent than the qualifications for President of the U.S., Governor of a state, or Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court or any other court of law.

Or do I presume too much? Are the Shoals Patriots "Christians" at this point in their evolution simply because no non Christians have yet sought membership?

To clarify the matter, I make this simple request. If any Shoals Patriot is reading this, please advise just what the response of the organization would be should a known atheist, Buddhist, etc. show up at one of your meetings, seek out the membership chairman or whoever is in charge in the membership area, and ask to be accepted as a member.


Well I don't presume to know much about them...but I assume they are PRIVATE...so to each is own...
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
The old saying goes, when you assume, you make an a** out of me an u. Are there some anti-Christian leanings, in your statements? Would it be correct to assume, since you didn't say you "were not", that you are? Anti-Christian, that is.


Just what "anti-Christian leanings" do you find in what I posted?

I said nothing in my post that would overtly or indirectly indicate whether I am or am not a Christian. For the record, I am. On the other hand, the Patriots' web page expressly stated, "We are Christians." Thus, if you are attempting to show any parallel or analogy between what I posted and what they posted, you have failed.
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
Saw the heading of the thread, knew it was you. I don't see anything that says, Non-Christians need not apply. Thanks for our morning bucket of slop.


So, in your mind, requesting clarification on a matter that is not clear from what is posted is a "bucket of slop." I was not stating that no Christians need apply. I was asking whether the Patriots accepted non-Christians as members.
Perhaps you should go back your elementary school English textbooks and ponder on the significance of the QUESTION MARK!
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
On the Shoals Patriots' web site, there is a question:"Who are we?"

The answer immediately below the question lists 14 things that the Patriots claim to be. he very first item listed is "We are Christians."

It would appear, then, that with regard to membership requirements, the Shoals Patriots do not accept atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Baha'i, Druids, Shintoists, Rosicrucians, Unitarian-Universalists, Deists, or adherents to any belief system other than Christian.

The Constitution of the United States and the Constitutions of most, if not all, of the states forbid the use of a religious test for public office. Thus, the qualifications for membership in the Shoals Patriots seem, in this regard, to be more stringent than the qualifications for President of the U.S., Governor of a state, or Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court or any other court of law.

Or do I presume too much? Are the Shoals Patriots "Christians" at this point in their evolution simply because no non Christians have yet sought membership?

To clarify the matter, I make this simple request. If any Shoals Patriot is reading this, please advise just what the response of the organization would be should a known atheist, Buddhist, etc. show up at one of your meetings, seek out the membership chairman or whoever is in charge in the membership area, and ask to be accepted as a member.


And this post was created by someone professing to be a deacon and Sunday School teacher. Why do you think it is so important to create a lie in order to try to belittle an organization with which you disagree? Why didn't you list the other 13 items detailing some of the things the Shoals Patriots believe in? Does your church claim to be "Christians"? Are "only" Christians allowed to attend your church? To clarify this matter, I make this simple request. You contact the leadership of Shoals patriots and ask them this question yourself. Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response.

http://shoalspatriots.com/contactus.html
Come on, BTU. You wanted to start crap and you did. I'd think you would be doing back-flips. It is what you live for, right?

You often misdirect news items, all to your advantage. Your special little bent on things. Of course, now you want me to list them all. I couldn't, possibly, live that long. I hope, Shoals Patriots, get Sarah to speak, at a meeting. The winds, they are a-changing. You betcha!!
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
Saw the heading of the thread, knew it was you. I don't see anything that says, Non-Christians need not apply. Thanks for our morning bucket of slop.


So, in your mind, requesting clarification on a matter that is not clear from what is posted is a "bucket of slop." I was not stating that no Christians need apply. I was asking whether the Patriots accepted non-Christians as members.
Perhaps you should go back your elementary school English textbooks and ponder on the significance of the QUESTION MARK!

quote:
It would appear, then, that with regard to membership requirements, the Shoals Patriots do not accept atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Baha'i, Druids, Shintoists, Rosicrucians, Unitarian-Universalists, Deists, or adherents to any belief system other than Christian.


Actually that is exactly what you said. You insinuated that the group did not accept any religion other than Christian, you wrote it right there for everyone to see....how can you deny it??
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
Saw the heading of the thread, knew it was you. I don't see anything that says, Non-Christians need not apply. Thanks for our morning bucket of slop.


So, in your mind, requesting clarification on a matter that is not clear from what is posted is a "bucket of slop." I was not stating that no Christians need apply. I was asking whether the Patriots accepted non-Christians as members.
Perhaps you should go back your elementary school English textbooks and ponder on the significance of the QUESTION MARK!


I would say if they are left wing fanatics who want to destroy America? No, they probably wouldn't be welcome. IF they want to preserve the America that has been under assault from American-born communists (such as yourself) for the last 50 years, they probably would be welcome.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
Saw the heading of the thread, knew it was you. I don't see anything that says, Non-Christians need not apply. Thanks for our morning bucket of slop.


So, in your mind, requesting clarification on a matter that is not clear from what is posted is a "bucket of slop." I was not stating that no Christians need apply. I was asking whether the Patriots accepted non-Christians as members.
Perhaps you should go back your elementary school English textbooks and ponder on the significance of the QUESTION MARK!

quote:
It would appear, then, that with regard to membership requirements, the Shoals Patriots do not accept atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Baha'i, Druids, Shintoists, Rosicrucians, Unitarian-Universalists, Deists, or adherents to any belief system other than Christian.


Actually that is exactly what you said. You insinuated that the group did not accept any religion other than Christian, you wrote it right there for everyone to see....how can you deny it??


You are very obviously ignoring the other element of my post, namely that I left fully open the issue of whether non-Christians were admitted to membership. Giving the Patriots the benefit of the doubt, I acknowledged that the organization simply might not have had any non-Christians to apply for membership. The question mark in the caption for my post indicates not a conclusion but an inquiry. That is what a question mark is for. Had I fully concluded that the Patriots rejected non-Christians, I would have used a period. To refresh your memory, I have pasted below the relevant material from my original post.

"Or do I presume too much? Are the Shoals Patriots 'Christians' at this point in their evolution simply because no non-Christians have yet sought membership?

To clarify the matter, I make this simple request. If any Shoals Patriot is reading this, please advise just what the response of the organization would be should a known atheist, Buddhist, etc. show up at one of your meetings, seek out the membership chairman or whoever is in charge in the membership area, and ask to be accepted as a member."

My question was entirely valid in light of the ambiguity of the issue about which I was inquiring. I stated no absolutist conclusions. I did request clarification. Have you no understanding at all of subtleties, nuances or qualifications or must you always deal in absolutist terms?

I do tire of dealing with wingers who tend so strongly to place absolutist interpretations on matters that clearly do not warrant such treatment. I have taken more time and effort than you deserve in order to to explain to you something that should have been obvious to you in the first place. Grow up, and in the future please try to apply a little interpretive common sense to matters of this kind.
Last edited by beternU
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
The old saying goes, when you assume, you make an a** out of me an u. Are there some anti-Christian leanings, in your statements? Would it be correct to assume, since you didn't say you "were not", that you are? Anti-Christian, that is.


You need to get yourself better informed on the difference between a "presumption" and an "assumption." A presumption deals with that which appears probable, but is not conclusive and needs further analysis. An assumption is conclusory, admitting of no further need for inquiry.
That is bs and you know it bitternu. You saw a statement on their website and decided to cleverly use it to do a little bashing. Why were you on their website if you weren't looking for a little ammo for your game? I'm sure it wasn't to see where to sign up. Why did you ignore my reply? Afraid of a little challenge? I'll repeat it here.
quote:
And this post was created by someone professing to be a deacon and Sunday School teacher. Why do you think it is so important to create a lie in order to try to belittle an organization with which you disagree? Why didn't you list the other 13 items detailing some of the things the Shoals Patriots believe in? Does your church claim to be "Christians"? Are "only" Christians allowed to attend your church? To clarify this matter, I make this simple request. You contact the leadership of Shoals patriots and ask them this question yourself. Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response.

http://shoalspatriots.com/contactus.html
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Tenn on my mind:
The old saying goes, when you assume, you make an a** out of me an u. Are there some anti-Christian leanings, in your statements? Would it be correct to assume, since you didn't say you "were not", that you are? Anti-Christian, that is.


You need to get yourself better informed on the difference between a "presumption" and an "assumption." A presumption deals with that which appears probable, but is not conclusive and needs further analysis. An assumption is conclusory, admitting of no further need for inquiry.


The difference between PREsumption and ASSumption is you are the latter, Bloated Blowhard of Bombast.
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
That is bs and you know it bitternu. You saw a statement on their website and decided to cleverly use it to do a little bashing. Why were you on their website if you weren't looking for a little ammo for your game? I'm sure it wasn't to see where to sign up. Why did you ignore my reply? Afraid of a little challenge? I'll repeat it here.
quote:
And this post was created by someone professing to be a deacon and Sunday School teacher. Why do you think it is so important to create a lie in order to try to belittle an organization with which you disagree? Why didn't you list the other 13 items detailing some of the things the Shoals Patriots believe in? Does your church claim to be "Christians"? Are "only" Christians allowed to attend your church? To clarify this matter, I make this simple request. You contact the leadership of Shoals patriots and ask them this question yourself. Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response.

http://shoalspatriots.com/contactus.html


Okay, Your Royal Density. Here are some answers for you, despite the fact that you gave no answer to me, but merely asserted that I had posted "bs" and then asserted your purported psychic skills to alleged;y interpret my motives.

Q. Why do you think it is so important to create a lie in order to try to belittle an organization with which you disagree?

A. I created no lie; your question does not compute.

Q. Why didn't you list the other 13 items detailing some of the things the Shoals Patriots believe in?

A. The other items were pretty much unambiguous and self-explanatory. I needed no interpretation of them from the keepers of the webv site or other satraps of TEA Party philosophy.

Q. Does your church claim to be "Christians"?

A. I do not own a church. Jesus Christ does, since He purchased it with His blood. I belong to it and to Him. As a member of His church, I am a Christian by definition.

Q. Are "only" Christians allowed to attend your church?

A. I do not own a church. Jesus Christ does, since He purchased it with His blood. The church of which I am a member, like just about all churches in our area, does not exclude anyone from attending, asking only that all who do attend behave responsibly and respectfully.

Q.(Request, or whatever) I make this simple request. You contact the leadership of Shoals patriots and ask them this question yourself. Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response.

A. I told no lies. I provided a presumptive interpretation of the entry on the Patriots' web page ("We are Christians") and qualified that by noting that the Patriots might not actually be as exclusive as that statement seemed to indicate. To hear YOU tell it, I issued an unqualified accusation that they allowed only Christians as members. No rational, unbiased person, reading what I actually posted, would come to that conclusion. I suggest you go back and read again what I actually posted, since however many times you might have read it thus far, you have not read it for its meaning, but rather for the purpose of finding some way, however perverse, to torque it into something from which you could launch your irrational flurry of invective at me.

As to your anticipatory conclusion ("Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response"), F*A*G*GETTABOUTIT!

My original post asked, "If any Shoals Patriot is reading this, please advise just what the response of the organization would be should a known atheist, Buddhist, etc. show up at one of your meetings, seek out the membership chairman or whoever is in charge in the membership area, and ask to be accepted as a member." I had honestly supposed that surely among the far-right wingnuts on the forum, at least a couple might be among the alleged "Shoals Patriots" and would give me an answer. That not being the case, I can do without knowing the answer to muy question. Frankly, I have more useful and entertaining things to do (e.g. watching paint dry) than chasing down some "Shoals Patriot" for an answer.

Finally, on the business of LYING, it is my firm conclusion that your obvious MIS-representation of what I posted comes pretty close to being a LIE. Think about it.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

Okay, Your Royal Density. Here are some answers for you, despite the fact that you gave no answer to me, but merely asserted that I had posted "bs" and then asserted your purported psychic skills to alleged;y interpret my motives.

Q. Why do you think it is so important to create a lie in order to try to belittle an organization with which you disagree?

A. I created no lie; your question does not compute.

Q. Why didn't you list the other 13 items detailing some of the things the Shoals Patriots believe in?

A. The other items were pretty much unambiguous and self-explanatory. I needed no interpretation of them from the keepers of the webv site or other satraps of TEA Party philosophy.

Q. Does your church claim to be "Christians"?

A. I do not own a church. Jesus Christ does, since He purchased it with His blood. I belong to it and to Him. As a member of His church, I am a Christian by definition.

Q. Are "only" Christians allowed to attend your church?

A. I do not own a church. Jesus Christ does, since He purchased it with His blood. The church of which I am a member, like just about all churches in our area, does not exclude anyone from attending, asking only that all who do attend behave responsibly and respectfully.

Q.(Request, or whatever) I make this simple request. You contact the leadership of Shoals patriots and ask them this question yourself. Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response.

A. I told no lies. I provided a presumptive interpretation of the entry on the Patriots' web page ("We are Christians") and qualified that by noting that the Patriots might not actually be as exclusive as that statement seemed to indicate. To hear YOU tell it, I issued an unqualified accusation that they allowed only Christians as members. No rational, unbiased person, reading what I actually posted, would come to that conclusion. I suggest you go back and read again what I actually posted, since however many times you might have read it thus far, you have not read it for its meaning, but rather for the purpose of finding some way, however perverse, to torque it into something from which you could launch your irrational flurry of invective at me.

As to your anticipatory conclusion ("Then come crawling back to the forums and post their response and beg for forgiveness from us for posting your lies. We'll be waiting for your response"), F*A*G*GETTABOUTIT!

My original post asked, "If any Shoals Patriot is reading this, please advise just what the response of the organization would be should a known atheist, Buddhist, etc. show up at one of your meetings, seek out the membership chairman or whoever is in charge in the membership area, and ask to be accepted as a member." I had honestly supposed that surely among the far-right wingnuts on the forum, at least a couple might be among the alleged "Shoals Patriots" and would give me an answer. That not being the case, I can do without knowing the answer to muy question. Frankly, I have more useful and entertaining things to do (e.g. watching paint dry) than chasing down some "Shoals Patriot" for an answer.

Finally, on the business of LYING, it is my firm conclusion that your obvious MIS-representation of what I posted comes pretty close to being a LIE. Think about it.


Oh Bloated Blowhard of Bombast. When you anoint yourself with a moniker like that, you WILL be held to a higher standard.
quote:
Originally posted by midknightrider:
So, did betternu contact the Shoals Patriots to find out the answer to his question?

No long rants necessary...a simple yes or no will suffice.


I feel confident that I can answer for him. NO. He succeeded in his mind in creating a controversy by falsely inferring that only Christians can become a Shoals Patriot. He also refused to answer any of my questions because in his mind I phrased them wrong. Let me rephrase them.

betternU does the church you are a member of claim to be christians?

Are only Christians allowed in the church you are a member of?

I am providing a presumptive interpretation that if the church you attend are Christians then sinners would not be welcome.
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by midknightrider:
So, did betternu contact the Shoals Patriots to find out the answer to his question?

No long rants necessary...a simple yes or no will suffice.


I feel confident that I can answer for him. NO. He succeeded in his mind in creating a controversy by falsely inferring that only Christians can become a Shoals Patriot. He also refused to answer any of my questions because in his mind I phrased them wrong. Let me rephrase them.

You obviously would not recognize an answer if it bit you on the butt! I will try one more time:

Q. betternU does the church you are a member of claim to be christians?

A. Of course they do. We also spell "Christian" with a capital "C" because that is the correct form to use.

Q. Are only Christians allowed in the church you are a member of?

A. Your question reflects some lack of understanding of the nature of the church that is described in my Bible. The church is made up of Christians, entirely of Christians, and of no one other than Christians. Thus, unless a person is a Christian, he is not in any church, at least not in any church that is anything like the church described in the New Testament. A person presenting him/herself for membership in a church, who professes not to be a Christian and not to be willing to become one, is properly rejected for membership. The church, insofar as membership is concerned, is a place for saved sinners, not for alien, unrepentant sinners.

Q. I am providing a presumptive interpretation that if the church you attend are Christians then sinners would not be welcome.

A. Not welcome for membership as unrepentent sinners, but welcome as guests at meetings of the church. Saved sinners would be welcome as members.
_______

Now that I have answered you, will you tell me whether the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner.
quote:
Now that I have answered you, will you tell me whether the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner.


I can almost guarantee you that "your" church has members that are not saved. I would not be a part of a church that prohibited membership because of ones lack of spirituality. Please refer me to the scriptures that prohibits a non-Christian from a church.
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Now that I have answered you, will you tell me whether the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner.


I can almost guarantee you that "your" church has members that are not saved. I would not be a part of a church that prohibited membership because of ones lack of spirituality. Please refer me to the scriptures that prohibits a non-Christian from a church.


Now listen up, and pay attention. The SAVED are in the church, according to the Bible. The Lord puts them there: "And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved." (Acts 2:47).

Sure, there can be imposters and hypocrites on church rolls, but that fails to address the point at issue. What I told you is that a church has no business accepting as a member someone who is, and who professes to be, an unbelieving, unrepentent sinner. God does not accept them and neither should God's church. If you see anything wrong with that, I would like to know what it is.

Now will you, who hammer on me for allegedly not answering questions,answer the ONE question I posed to you, namely: Would the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner?
quote:
Sure, there can be imposters and hypocrites on church rolls, but that fails to address the point at issue. What I told you is that a church has no business accepting as a member someone who is, and who professes to be, an unbelieving, unrepentent sinner. God does not accept them and neither should God's church. If you see anything wrong with that, I would like to know what it is.

Now will you, who hammer on me for allegedly not answering questions,answer the ONE question I posed to you, namely: Would the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner?


Yes, my church would accept a non believer into its fold. Has any of your church members been saved during a service or revival? My guess is the answer to that is yes. If so, then your church is not practicing what you are preaching.
This all gets away from the point that you started this thread with the intentions of trying to disgrace the Shoals Patriots because they listed on their website that they are Christians. Would you like them better if they listed that they were non-Christians?
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Sure, there can be imposters and hypocrites on church rolls, but that fails to address the point at issue. What I told you is that a church has no business accepting as a member someone who is, and who professes to be, an unbelieving, unrepentent sinner. God does not accept them and neither should God's church. If you see anything wrong with that, I would like to know what it is.

Now will you, who hammer on me for allegedly not answering questions,answer the ONE question I posed to you, namely: Would the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner?


Yes, my church would accept a non believer into its fold. Has any of your church members been saved during a service or revival? My guess is the answer to that is yes. If so, then your church is not practicing what you are preaching.
This all gets away from the point that you started this thread with the intentions of trying to disgrace the Shoals Patriots because they listed on their website that they are Christians. Would you like them better if they listed that they were non-Christians?


Again, you miss the point. You ask, "Has any of your church members been saved during a service or revival?" The answer to that is "yes," but before they were saved, they were not Christians and they were not church members. Let me try to make it as plain as I can. Consider a church building on Sunday morning filled with people. Some of those people are saved people; they are Christians. Others in that assembly are unsaved people; they are non-Christians. They make no pretext of being Christians or of being saved. They do not consider Jesus Christ to be their Savior. They are fully aware that they have committed many sins and they are, nevertheless, unrepentant. Although such persons are welcome to come to the assembly and sit in the pews, they are NOT members of the church and will NOT be members of the church until they have been saved. I don't know what kind of church you are envisioning when you seem to be describing a church made up of both saved and unsaved people, but one thing is certain: it is not the church described in the Bible.
As aditional information, the following appears on the Home Page of the Shoals Patriots.

"So, join us in exercising our God-given right to peacefully protest. We will be holding a rally to let Washington know that Christians are also voters and we will NOT sit silently by while our God-given rights are attacked. Christians of all denominations must UNITE as one body to save our country!"

Now, THAT does not sound very all-encompassing to me. Reads as though no one but Christians are involved in this right-wing rally.
quote:
Originally posted by kperk014:
Bloated Blowhard of Bombast, why do you have hatred for Patriots and Tea Party folks and unconditional love for acorn and the new black panthers? Is there something we should know about you like, could you get a national security clearance? Smiler


Does it make you feel creative to take a term I have coined and use it for your own purposes? Probably, since you have no creative ability of your own and no originality, let alone polemic competence.

I have never had a very high national security clearance, but I have had a sufficiently high clearance to enter aerospace facilities where missles are manufactured and to gain access to every facet of their operations. What level of national security clearance hav you attained?
quote:
Originally posted by barbaros45:
beternu..I dont know you...dont care to, and I sure wouldnt want to go to your church...do you think you have "witnessed" on this forum..


I don't know what you mean by "witnessed," but I have told the truth on this forum, as contrasted with what ferrellj has done in his misrepresentation of what I posted. Do you believe that ferrellj has "witnessed," whatever that term means to you?

It is becoming increasingly obvious on this forum and especially on this current topic that one can not make a reasonable inquiry into the criteria by which an organization organizes itself without incurring the unreasonable wrath of people like ferrellj, who insist on distorting the nature and purpose of the inquiry.

I would commend to you the words of hayssco 23 in an early post on this topic, namely:

"The first thing listed is "We are Christians," which would seem to imply that it is a very important quality to the members of the group, so just because it doesn't say "need not apply," it very well could be assumed, and makes beternu's question a very relative one."

Do you specifically disagree with anything I posted? If you wish to actually enter the discussion in a meaningful way, you might consider doing that instead of simply lining up with the character assassins and name-callers.
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
Don't waste your time barbaros. All you will get is a lot of babbling with fancy words. We all know what he was attempting to do no matter how much he denies it. He failed miserably again.


You still seem to be among those deluded types who believe that because you say something is so, that makes it so. I failed at nothing but penetrating your dense-as-depleted-uranium resistance to truth, reason, and fair play.

It is obvious that I have by now done everything necessary to fully explain my position on this issue and that no amount of additional information will satisfy you, since you continue to misread and misinterpret what I have posted. Moreover, despite the time and trouble I have given to answering YOU, you nevertheless still decline to answer the one simple little question I asked you, which is:

"Now that I have answered you, will you tell me whether the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner."

Seems to me there needs to be a little reciprocity here. All you need to do is post a simple "yes" or "no" answer, but if you wish to post some kind of explanation along with that, that will be okay by me. I am frankly puzzled as to why you will not answer at all. Are you afraid of the question?
Last edited by beternU
Getting a little delusional on us are you? I've already answered your question and you've already replied to my answer. Maybe it's you that has the head that is dense as depleted uranuium.

quote:
Yes, my church would accept a non believer into its fold. Has any of your church members been saved during a service or revival? My guess is the answer to that is yes. If so, then your church is not practicing what you are preaching.
This all gets away from the point that you started this thread with the intentions of trying to disgrace the Shoals Patriots because they listed on their website that they are Christians. Would you like them better if they listed that they were non-Christians?


quote:
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:

quote:
Sure, there can be imposters and hypocrites on church rolls, but that fails to address the point at issue. What I told you is that a church has no business accepting as a member someone who is, and who professes to be, an unbelieving, unrepentent sinner. God does not accept them and neither should God's church. If you see anything wrong with that, I would like to know what it is.

Now will you, who hammer on me for allegedly not answering questions,answer the ONE question I posed to you, namely: Would the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner?


Yes, my church would accept a non believer into its fold. Has any of your church members been saved during a service or revival? My guess is the answer to that is yes. If so, then your church is not practicing what you are preaching.
This all gets away from the point that you started this thread with the intentions of trying to disgrace the Shoals Patriots because they listed on their website that they are Christians. Would you like them better if they listed that they were non-Christians?


Again, you miss the point. You ask, "Has any of your church members been saved during a service or revival?" The answer to that is "yes," but before they were saved, they were not Christians and they were not church members. Let me try to make it as plain as I can. Consider a church building on Sunday morning filled with people. Some of those people are saved people; they are Christians. Others in that assembly are unsaved people; they are non-Christians. They make no pretext of being Christians or of being saved. They do not consider Jesus Christ to be their Savior. They are fully aware that they have committed many sins and they are, nevertheless, unrepentant. Although such persons are welcome to come to the assembly and sit in the pews, they are NOT members of the church and will NOT be members of the church until they have been saved. I don't know what kind of church you are envisioning when you seem to be describing a church made up of both saved and unsaved people, but one thing is certain: it is not the church described in the Bible.
beternU
Hall of Famer
Posted 19 February 2010 09:37 AM Hide Post
This string takes the prize for the most obscure, vague and useless material ever posted anywhere.

No one reading this tripe without some kind of prior inside knowledge could have even a remote idea about what is being discussed.



I agree! Wait...Didn't you start this?
ferrellj says:

quote:
Yes, my church would accept a non believer into its fold.


I assume that since you assert that this is the answer to my question ("Would the church of which you are a member would accept into its membership in good standing an unsaved, unrepentent, unbelieving sinner?"), you mean to say your church can legitimately be composed of both saved sinners as well as lost, overt, unsaved, unrepentant sinners.

Would you regard an impenitent fornicator or idolator or drunkard as a fit subject for membership in your church? Given your answer, I can not but conclude that you would.

In contrast to your irrationally hyperecumenical take on this, consider how the Apostle Paul told the Corinthian church to deal with sinners in their midst.

I Corinthians 5:11-13 (King James Version)

"11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Those that Paul describes as "them that are within" are obviously persons who had been admitted to the Corinthian church (including some who obviously had no business being there) and those described as "them that are without" were persons who made no claim to church membership. What does he tell the Corinthian church to do about "them that are within" who were guilty of the sins enumerated in verse 11? Just this: "Put away from among yourselves that wicked person." Let me ask you this, then, ferrellj. If such sinners as these are accepted as members of your church and remain unrepentent, would it not be necessary to "...put away from among yourselves that wicked person"? If your church follows the Bible in its criteria for membership, such persons never would not knowingly be included as members in that church in the first place. Thus, the situation should not occur, but if it DOES occur, what is your church obliged to do? Would they just continue to let unrepentant fornicators, idolators, drunkards, etc. remain in good standing with the oh-so-all-encompassing and welcoming church you seem to be describing?

If you have unrepentant sinners on your church's membership rolls, it would seem that you have a scriptural obligation to get busy and put those wicked persons out, just as was done in the Corinthian church on instruction of an inspired apostle. How say you?
Last edited by beternU
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Or do I presume too much?


That would be completely within the standard parameters for you. How about just banning any group, outside of the any given church building of course, from mentioning or displaying their religious affiliation. Then extend it to any individual. Since you're going to take it that far, you might as well take actions over a period of time that make it impossible to practice religion of any sort... except, of course, dutiful obedience and supplication to the state... Wink

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