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Shoemaker Suggests Giving Jobs To Prisoners

rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
“The mayor said a possible way to reduce those costs would involve a state program that brings in Alabama inmate trustees to do some of the work.”link

What about your job Shoemaker? I’m sure there is a qualified Trustee that would work for pennys and save the City money.

Hey; we could just go out and arrest somebody to do your job.
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T traderPost Master
In fact that is not a new idea at all. I travel 5 states, and in the State of Mississippi and State of Tenn, they Utilize the Craftsmen within their prison system to do maintenance and remodel their courthouses, local and state government buildings, maintain streets, highways, etc...
This is a very good use of state funds, as those prisoners who have the skills to perform these duties should be utilized to their fullest.
They could Utilize skilled mechanics,etc to work on all city and county Vehicles at a tremendous savings. The prisoners would receive a wage that they could send to help their family, and we, the citizens would get things done at a bargain.
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by trader:
In fact that is not a new idea at all. I travel 5 states, and in the State of Mississippi and State of Tenn, they Utilize the Craftsmen within their prison system to do maintenance and remodel their courthouses, local and state government buildings, maintain streets, highways, etc...
This is a very good use of state funds, as those prisoners who have the skills to perform these duties should be utilized to their fullest.
They could Utilize skilled mechanics,etc to work on all city and county Vehicles at a tremendous savings. The prisoners would receive a wage that they could send to help their family, and we, the citizens would get things done at a bargain.


What shall the children of the good craftsmen who keep themselves out of prison say in the day they cry for milk? “father, consider the lawless for they have bread to eat.”
unclegusunclegusOld Faithful
I am all for it. We all make mistakes in our lives at one time or another. Yes there is skilled professionals in the prison system who can and would rather provide their services than be sitting in a cell sponging from tax funds to make their keep.
I doubt very seriously any hard criminals would be working on these projects.
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
These prisoners are licensed contractors who do not participate in the bid process and are for profit and are awarded jobs after the lawful state bid process.

The inmates get fifty cents per hour.

These inmates are also certified hazardous materials abatement contractors.

Are there any contractors or business people out there that think they can compete with this? No.

Are there law abiding citizens out there that would like to have these jobs at a decent wage and get off the unemployment roster? Yes.

I say if Shoemaker thinks this is a good idea; I’m sure there is some incarcerated attorney out there that could do his job at fifty cents per hour and save Tuscumbia a ton of money.

It’s easy enter into a contract with the Alabama Dept. of Corrections. The inmates are bussed up here daily from Limestone County and Prisons South of here by unarmed supervisors.

Why this type logic would seem to indicate the re-instatement of slavery would be appropriate.

Just one more example of what happens when the average person has too much time on their hands and tries un-assisted thinking.
BFred07BFred07Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
These prisoners are licensed contractors who do not participate in the bid process and are for profit and are awarded jobs after the lawful state bid process.

The inmates get fifty cents per hour.

These inmates are also certified hazardous materials abatement contractors.

Are there any contractors or business people out there that think they can compete with this? No.

Are there law abiding citizens out there that would like to have these jobs at a decent wage and get off the unemployment roster? Yes.

I say if Shoemaker thinks this is a good idea; I’m sure there is some incarcerated attorney out there that could do his job at fifty cents per hour and save Tuscumbia a ton of money.

It’s easy enter into a contract with the Alabama Dept. of Corrections. The inmates are bussed up here daily from Limestone County and Prisons South of here by unarmed supervisors.

Why this type logic would seem to indicate the re-instatement of slavery would be appropriate.

Just one more example of what happens when the average person has too much time on their hands and tries un-assisted thinking.


I am surprised that so many people are against this, why spend more of our money than we have to? We already pay for the prisoners upkeep, this is just something to help curb the cost but people are up in arms afraid that a prisoner might take their job even it means just paying more so prisoners can lay around all day and watch TV. Personally I don't give a rats *** about whose job it might take, I just want as little money as possible spent so that our taxes won't go up.
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by trader:
In fact that is not a new idea at all. I travel 5 states, and in the State of Mississippi and State of Tenn, they Utilize the Craftsmen within their prison system to do maintenance and remodel their courthouses, local and state government buildings, maintain streets, highways, etc...
This is a very good use of state funds, as those prisoners who have the skills to perform these duties should be utilized to their fullest.
They could Utilize skilled mechanics,etc to work on all city and county Vehicles at a tremendous savings. The prisoners would receive a wage that they could send to help their family, and we, the citizens would get things done at a bargain.

That's not all, in Ms, prison inmates are bussed to some cities to perform a lot of un-skilled labor, like collecting garbage, and doing general work around the city buildings.

I actually think this is a great idea. Get some benefit out of the approximately $45000 it cost us a year to house these people.
I have visited Parchman back in the 60's and it was at that time totally self-supporting except for trading cotton to Arkansas for the material to make the stripped clothes, and trading with La for salt.
Pick that cotton, tote that bale ---
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
The obvious answer to the argument is folks should behave and obey the law.

To suggest the prison population is better suited, for whatever reason, to take jobs that would otherwise be performed by law abiding citizens, by logic, one could conclude Wise Aluminum should lay-off all production employees, enter into a contract with the Alabama Department of Corrections and lower the production cost with fifty cents per hour labor.

The idea is nothing but Slavery under a different name.

Greedy entrepreneurs are not to be trusted with the gullible mind that sees this practice as healthy.
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
Ram, it would seem to my simple mind that there is a difference in "farming out" inmates to private business as semi-slave labor, and forcing them to preform public service to save taxpayers money. That is kinda like paying twice for the same job, once for an inmate who could do this, and once more to hire someone to actually do it. (Kinda like Scarlet did in GWTW Roll Eyes )
I was all for the chain gangs Ala tried several years ago, but I don't remember why they were discontinued.
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
I can think of several ways to save the taxpayer money.

Court appointed attorneys could surely be provided from the prison population.

Lets clean out the employees from the Licensees Commissioner ‘s office and replace them with prisoners .
Afterall they are Trustees and would make excellent tag-sellers. Now that would save a bundle.$$$$$$
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by James Holden:
you're gonna pay me anyway, i'm on unemployment, food stamps, and soon to be getting a few federal grants to go to school.

but as a Colbert County resident who resides in the jurisdiction of Tuscumbia i'd rather work for the money you're giving me in the end.


Mr. Holden,

It could be argued; the reason you are un-employed is due to the Alabama Department of Corrections taking a job somewhere in this State.

I would in fact be the” Poster Boy” in defense of my own position. As the low bidder on more than one occasion; I was not successful in receiving the contract due to the prisoner work/policy.

To have a chance at doing any of the work I have now had to submit bids directly to the Alabama Department of Corrections as a sub-contractor. The local general contractor ,who is the low bidder was left out . Result; lost jobs that effect the local work force.

I have, as a subcontractor, to the Alabama Department of Corrections provided items of expertise outside their capabilities and installed by them in a manner ;by observation on the part of any taxpayer would conclude:
1. The Prisoners do not recognize a quality product or service.

2. Do not insist on a quality product or service.

3. When called upon cannot provide a quality product or service.
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
Ram, you make a very good point, and I guess we have a different idea of prison labor. I see it as cleaning up the roadsides because of all the filthy people who throw their garbage out the care window,and some other services along that line. Not using convicts as slave labor either to compete with, or supplement a contractors work force.
An argument could be made that picking up trash along the road could be done by hired help, but in that case, I would defend using prisoners .
In the case you are referring to, I would agree- no way.
BFred07BFred07Hall of Famer
Alabama DOC has about 30,000 inmates, I am sure in such a large pool that there would be plenty of skilled workers and some hardworking unskilled laborers. I am all for using low risk, non-violent offenders to do work for the state and municipalities. We are already paying room & board for the prisoners so why not recoup some of that money through their labor? Is it the job of the city to provide work for contractors or is it their responsibility to get necessary work done at the lowest cost to taxpayers?
bhkbhkFamiliar Face
I have bounced around the US quite a bit the last 21 years, and the only place that I have lived that does not use inmate labor for public works is Florence, AL. In Mississippi, it is not uncommon in some small towns to see convicts in prison uniforms picking up your garbage early in the morning. In Nashville, inmates perform most of the upkeep on the city parks, stormwater facilities, and Metro buildings, including City Hall. Heck, inmate labor saved our only functioning water plant during the May 2-3 flooding. They filled sand bags for 24 hours straight for use at the plant. Other inmate workers placed the bags. The Shoals owes it to the taxpayers to use more inmate labor.
EL E.Z. Lee PistophHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by E.Z. Lee Pistoph:
Well I keep hearing how the Mexicans just do the work Americans don't want. When isn't the truth that the Meixcans are doing the work Americans don't want to do for the wages a Mexican will do it for. Maybe we'll hear that the prisoners are doing the work the Mexicans don't want. There are so many people that as long as it's not taking their job they don't care who suffers!!!!!!!!! Maybe someday we'll get a load of illegals wearing ties and ya'll will get a shot of reality. I'm all for the work farm system of prisons being self sufficient but a prisoner taking an honest citizen job doen't make sense!
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
These prisoners are licensed contractors who do not participate in the bid process and are for profit and are awarded jobs after the lawful state bid process.

The inmates get fifty cents per hour.

These inmates are also certified hazardous materials abatement contractors.

Are there any contractors or business people out there that think they can compete with this? No.

Are there law abiding citizens out there that would like to have these jobs at a decent wage and get off the unemployment roster? Yes.

I say if Shoemaker thinks this is a good idea; I’m sure there is some incarcerated attorney out there that could do his job at fifty cents per hour and save Tuscumbia a ton of money.

It’s easy enter into a contract with the Alabama Dept. of Corrections. The inmates are bussed up here daily from Limestone County and Prisons South of here by unarmed supervisors.

Why this type logic would seem to indicate the re-instatement of slavery would be appropriate.

Just one more example of what happens when the average person has too much time on their hands and tries un-assisted thinking.

I am surprised that so many people are against this, why spend more of our money than we have to? We already pay for the prisoners upkeep, this is just something to help curb the cost but people are up in arms afraid that a prisoner might take their job even it means just paying more so prisoners can lay around all day and watch TV. Personally I don't give a rats *** about whose job it might take, I just want as little money as possible spent so that our taxes won't go up.

Hi BFred,

The point that Rram is making is: "What happens when it is YOUR JOB the inmates take?"

Then, will you care?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
BFred07BFred07Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
These prisoners are licensed contractors who do not participate in the bid process and are for profit and are awarded jobs after the lawful state bid process.

The inmates get fifty cents per hour.

These inmates are also certified hazardous materials abatement contractors.

Are there any contractors or business people out there that think they can compete with this? No.

Are there law abiding citizens out there that would like to have these jobs at a decent wage and get off the unemployment roster? Yes.

I say if Shoemaker thinks this is a good idea; I’m sure there is some incarcerated attorney out there that could do his job at fifty cents per hour and save Tuscumbia a ton of money.

It’s easy enter into a contract with the Alabama Dept. of Corrections. The inmates are bussed up here daily from Limestone County and Prisons South of here by unarmed supervisors.

Why this type logic would seem to indicate the re-instatement of slavery would be appropriate.

Just one more example of what happens when the average person has too much time on their hands and tries un-assisted thinking.

I am surprised that so many people are against this, why spend more of our money than we have to? We already pay for the prisoners upkeep, this is just something to help curb the cost but people are up in arms afraid that a prisoner might take their job even it means just paying more so prisoners can lay around all day and watch TV. Personally I don't give a rats *** about whose job it might take, I just want as little money as possible spent so that our taxes won't go up.

Hi BFred,

The point that Rram is making is: "What happens when it is YOUR JOB the inmates take?"

Then, will you care?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I understood what he was getting at, if they can do my job and do it for less then they will take it. Fortunately for me Smiler there would be a lot of barriers that anyone ever convicted of a crime would not be able to overcome to do my job.

As for E.Z. Lee's comment: "Maybe someday we'll get a load of illegals wearing ties and ya'll will get a shot of reality."
The problem with that statement is that they are not illegals and they have been coming here for years, they are not poor so they have no desire to come live here, their offices and plants are in Mexico, China, etc but they visit their clients here a lot and they sell a lot of stuff here that American companies cannot compete with. In other words, foreigners "taking" jobs from Americans really started at the top and worked it's way down.
Competition is a big part of the American way, if you can't or won't compete just go find another line of work.
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
Bfred,

The consensus of comments seem to indicate that the quality of work is not the main issue but the pay-scale of fifty cents per hour.

Having seen first hand that the quality of work expected of skilled tradesmen is not produced by prisoners I disagree on both points.

If the fifty cents per hour is the argument for giving jobs to prisoners instead of law abiding citizens then no; your job will also be a candidate to be replaced by supervised prison labor whether it be judge, lawyer or candlestick maker.

Ask some of the guys employed by the city to pick up paper etc. on the rights-of-way if they want to loose their jobs. No they don’t.

By this logic everyone should be arrested and work for fifty cents per hour.

That would save a ton of moolaa.
BFred07BFred07Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by trader:
Governments have the responsibility to operate frugal and with responsibility. They are not there to provide jobs to any individual company or corporation unless it is necessary to spend those funds...
Utilizing what resources you have within your accessibility is prudent stewartship of governmental funds...


I concur with trader on this one.
Of course no one wants to lose their job but governments should be tapping all of their resources to run more efficiently. They have prisoners on hand and in the pool of prisoners their are plenty of both skilled and unskilled persons that can be doing some work to help offset the cost of their upkeep which according to ADOC* is $41.71 per day so this is more than being about 50 cents per hour for inmate labor, the actual cost is much more but the "extra" money is money that the state is out anyway on inmates.
Why when you already have the tools to get a job done would you go out and buy more? Same difference.

* http://www.doc.state.al.us/faq.asp
bhkbhkFamiliar Face
Trader, you are right. If the local governments used inmate labor, maybe car tags would not cost over $100. Property taxes would not go up quite so often. The inmates are forced to give back some of that cost of maintenance. Right now, Alabama simply warehouses inmates, when they could be providing a valuable service. In TN, most counties work local jail inmates for free, but it is a voluntary detail for the inmates. We have no shortage of inmates that will work simply for the opportunity to get out of the jail and have something to do besides rot. I really could care less about hiring contractors to do these jobs. The role of good government is the proper stewardship of public funds, and contractors are way more expensive than inmate labor. Also, a lot corruption enters the system with contracting because of kickbacks, nepotism, etc.
bhkbhkFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
These prisoners are licensed contractors who do not participate in the bid process and are for profit and are awarded jobs after the lawful state bid process.

The inmates get fifty cents per hour.

These inmates are also certified hazardous materials abatement contractors.

Are there any contractors or business people out there that think they can compete with this? No.

Are there law abiding citizens out there that would like to have these jobs at a decent wage and get off the unemployment roster? Yes.

I say if Shoemaker thinks this is a good idea; I’m sure there is some incarcerated attorney out there that could do his job at fifty cents per hour and save Tuscumbia a ton of money.

It’s easy enter into a contract with the Alabama Dept. of Corrections. The inmates are bussed up here daily from Limestone County and Prisons South of here by unarmed supervisors.

Why this type logic would seem to indicate the re-instatement of slavery would be appropriate.

Just one more example of what happens when the average person has too much time on their hands and tries un-assisted thinking.

I am surprised that so many people are against this, why spend more of our money than we have to? We already pay for the prisoners upkeep, this is just something to help curb the cost but people are up in arms afraid that a prisoner might take their job even it means just paying more so prisoners can lay around all day and watch TV. Personally I don't give a rats *** about whose job it might take, I just want as little money as possible spent so that our taxes won't go up.

Hi BFred,

The point that Rram is making is: "What happens when it is YOUR JOB the inmates take?"

Then, will you care?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

The type jobs that inmates do would not put many people out of work. Besides, if you can be replaced by convict labor, you probably were not needed in the first place.

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