Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion begun last week by Chick, titled "Why Should Someone Be Banned?" -- the focus began to wander from that original issue and became a discussion basically questioning if Christian believers should evangelize and if believers should refute false teachings brought to the Religion Forum by false and/or cult religion followers.

In an earlier post within that discussion, I wrote, "I will say this -- I wish more conservative Christians would break one habit -- that of being too passive.  That is the one complaint I have long had with conservative Christians -- their reluctance to speak up and defend our faith in public.   To those who do, I offer a big 'Atta boy!' or 'Atta girl!' for your efforts in sharing the Gospel with others -- and for your efforts in refuting false and cult teachings."

And, Frog challenged me on this, "I have met very few 'conservative Christians' (I mean this as what your definition is, apparently, and not Christians in general, since I assume you mean those who feel as you do) who were too passive, or even passive at all.  The ones who "speak up and defend our faith in public" -- "share the Gospel with others" and make "efforts in refuting false and cult teachings" -- often steam roll others' beliefs and turn people off to religion.

My response to Frog was, "You have hit the nail on the head!  That is exactly what I am trying to do -- turn people OFF religions --  and get people turned ON to having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.   If I can do that for even one -- I have been successful as an evangelist."

Then, Chick asks me, "Bill, what about that one person you lead away from eternal life in Christ due to your judgmental ways, and your misinterpretation of scriptures?  You bring it across as (if) your belief is the only correct belief."

No, Chick, the Bible is the only true, infallible source of belief and faith.  I only try to interpret it to the best of my abilities.   And, I consult the teachings of many others who have much more knowledge than me -- to arrive at what I consider to be a good interpretation of any given Scripture passage or verse.

Even though I cannot say that I have a full understanding of all the Bible (in this life, I will never have a full understanding) -- I do believe that my Biblical Christian Doctrines, i.e., my Statement of Faith, is right on target.  And, my Statement of Faith is based 100% on the Bible:

1. The Deity of Jesus Christ -- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity -- God eternally existing; manifested (revealed) in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace -- By the grace of God you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus nothing else.
5. The Resurrection of Christ -- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected into eternal life.
6. The Gospel -- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7.  Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.

Chick, even though you tell us that you are no longer a believer -- can you tell me that you disagree with any of these?

If so, which ones -- and why?  To just say that you do not believe a statement, has no foundation -- unless you can tell me what you do not believe, why you do not believe it, and what source of information you based that understanding upon.

To say you don't believe any one, or all, of those statements -- just because you do not like me; well, that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.

Chick, you tell me, "Bill, what about that one person you lead away from eternal life in Christ due to your judgmental ways, and your misinterpretation of scriptures?"

Chick, that is a very serious claim, for we are speaking of a person's eternal life.  If you are saying this just as a way to cast a stone at me -- that is fine.  We will just chalk up one point for Chick.

However, if you are serious and honestly know of someone who has been led astray -- you and I both owe this person a chance to know the truth.

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.  If you do, please tell me.  In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.  I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

This I can share with you.  Over the years that I have been writing my Friends Ministry eNewsletter, I have had folks tell me that they had begun to pull away from their faith -- but, reading my e-mails helped them get back on track.  I have Friends who tell me they have shared my writings with other friends -- for they feel that my writing can help their friends.

I have had people request my PowerPoint presentations created for Bible studies.  The most recent, a pastor Friend I have not seen in a few years.  He is on my mail list and recently asked to have the presentations e-mailed to him to share with his church fellowship.  That, I will do for anyone who wants these Bible studies:  "Inaugural Study - We Believe" -- "It All Began With Creation"  -- "End Times Bible Study - Week One" -- and "End Times Bible Study - Week Two."

Chick, in the 20 plus years I have been doing Christian writing -- I know of no one that I have led away from or drove away from the church.   But, sincerely, if you do know of such a person -- please tell me.   And, I will request that you Private Message me and I will give you a way that person can contact me -- or you can give me a way to contact that person -- to allow us to clear up any misunderstanding.

Believe me, Chick, a person's eternal life is NOT something either you or I want to play with -- so, if you honestly know such a person, please put me in contact with him/her -- or have that person Private Message me.   I will truly appreciate it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

1 - Will Work For Jesus_Outline-2

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Bill says:

However, if you are serious and honestly know of someone who has been led astray -- you and I both owe this person a chance to know the truth.

_______________

I believe RoadPuppy claims that you destroyed any possibility of him being a believer, and firmly established him as an atheist.  And as far as that goes, I used to believe all those Baptists I grew up with were okay, but now I understand that they belong to a very misguided cult, at least based on what you write here.

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Since Christianity is a false cult, this is a really stupid topic.

quote:    Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'll let RP speak for himself if he chooses to even read this stupid thread, but I'm pretty sure he has stated that he came here looking for religion, and you drove him to atheism, Bill.  Go ahead and pretend that it doesn't fit your criteria.


Hi Crusty,

 

I have no doubt that he, and you, came here looking for a religion or two.  But, what we Christian believers speak of is a "relationship" with Jesus Christ.   So, you can keep your "religions" -- and we will stay in our "relationship."

 

But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 =========

What a wicked, cruel comment.  What kid of **** Christian are you anyway? And who the hell made you the Judge? Off to the Google to find our who this idiot is. 

No, my religion does not teach that we must refute false teachings.  There is much in the bible that can be interpreted. Church of Christers don't think Baptists are going to heaven. Baptists don't think Catholics and Mormon's are certainly going to hell, right?

My question is, Who are we to judge?  One's salvation is a personal matter. If the atheists don't want to be saved then who the hell are we to force it on them? Really, there is some sickening stuff going on here from supposed "Christians." I almost want to apologize to the atheists. We aren't all morons.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 =========

Originally Posted by Frankly:

What a wicked, cruel comment.  What kid of **** Christian are you anyway? And who the hell made you the Judge? Off to the Google to find our who this idiot is. 

___________________________

That's Bill's MO. He thinks he's doing it for God, & to earn that crown he thinks he will get someday.

Pitiful, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Frankly:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 =========

What a wicked, cruel comment.  What kid of **** Christian are you anyway? And who the hell made you the Judge? Off to the Google to find our who this idiot is. 


I suggest lots of scrolling so you don't end up taking that energy off with you.  Since there is no ignore, scrolling might save you from taking the bait and wanting to say the bolded part after many of Bill's posts.  It is all bait to keep things stirred is all.

Originally Posted by Frankly:

No, my religion does not teach that we must refute false teachings.  There is much in the bible that can be interpreted. Church of Christers don't think Baptists are going to heaven. Baptists don't think Catholics and Mormon's are certainly going to hell, right?

My question is, Who are we to judge?  One's salvation is a personal matter. If the atheists don't want to be saved then who the hell are we to force it on them? Really, there is some sickening stuff going on here from supposed "Christians." I almost want to apologize to the atheists. We aren't all morons.


My view is bolded and you said it well.  If we all aren't trying to force things on each other we might be actually able to discuss topics without nastiness and arguing.  All that does is turn people away from whatever opinion a person might have.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Chick, even though you tell us that you are no longer a believer
Chick, you tell me, "Bill, what about that one person you lead away from eternal life in Christ due to your judgmental ways, and your misinterpretation of scriptures?"
Chick, that is a very serious claim, for we are speaking of a person's eternal life.  If you are saying this just as a way to cast a stone at me
However, if you are serious and honestly know of someone who has been led astray
So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray. 
Chick, in the 20 plus years I have been doing Christian writing -- I know of no one that I have led away from or drove away from the church. 
Bill

________________________________

There you go again, twisting my words saying that I've told you I'm no longer a believer. What is it with you that you have this need to do that???

 

Do you not think it’s a serious claim when you get on this forum preaching things the way you see it, the way you believe it? The Judgment, the hate, the lies? You speak it as though people are to believe that the Almighty himself handed you those words. If I cast a stone as you call it, it’s the truth as I see it.

 

You run people off, Bill, by using fear. Why would anyone want to be part of something that has fear as it’s basis?  I didn’t say I knew someone personally that you had run off, & I certainly didn’t say from church. See how you twist words? In those 20 plus years you’ve been writing, (I’m not impressed) if you had run someone off, do you really think they would contact you & tell you that? Do you truly come against people in your writing as you do here? Do you use your silly cartoons to try & make those people look stupid? Do you talk down to them like you do here? I really doubt it.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by frog:

Scrolling...scrolling....keep scrolling.  Do not bite the bait.  Scrolling.

___________________________

frog, don't you feel special that Bill dedicated a whole topic to you & I?


Oh sure..special...lol.  But since everyone here can read and this was all in another thread there isn't anything new to say on the same topic, so I am scrolling away and happy about it  

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill


Bill, It is not up to you to lead anyone anywhere. God said he has put his word into every heart and every mind. Once they hear the word, God will see that his will is manifest in their lives and it is up to them to accept that Jesus Christ is the only salvation they will ever have. If they choose to accept then the Holy Spirit will dwell inside them and guide them every step of every second of their lives. I personally don't know how I ever functioned without his guidance. 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'll let RP speak for himself if he chooses to even read this stupid thread, but I'm pretty sure he has stated that he came here looking for religion, and you drove him to atheism, Bill.  Go ahead and pretend that it doesn't fit your criteria.

Hmm... Well actually, Crusty...my mind was pretty much made up already before I ever came to this forum.  Heh. Methinks ya give ol' BeeG too much credit.   Don't want his head to swell up too much. I dunno the pressure rating onnat sucker and I'd hate to hafta clean up one helluva mess should it burst.

 

For BeeG to be able to influence me to change any of my beliefs or principles that I stand on-he'd hafta matter to me a great deal.  His thoughts and words would have to hold some significance or importance to me.  Since they don't and he really doesn't matter to me one bit-He cannot affect me in any way, shape, or form.  BeeG is all noise and I've already stated many times why I believe he is constantly making that noise as often and as loudly as he can.

 

I reached my own conclusion regarding the existence of any kind of god-using my own experiences and logic and knowledge of the way things are and the way things work gained through self-education out of sheer curiosity.

 

However-I had never-EVER seen a 'religion' forum at a newspaper site before (Where I'm from there's lots of believers-but nobody gives a s#!&(Not even OTHER BELIEVERS! THE HORRORS!!!!!1) and leaves everybody else alone about it. Lot more atheists, too. Nobody cares one way or the other and we nawthunuhs don't shoot each other because we believe different things. Y'know.... Live and let live and all...)

 

Anyway, Like any good scientist would do-(OK, so I'm a simple scientist but I experiment nonetheless sometimes cause, hey..I could be wrong, but I figure I'm not..) I decided to drop in and ask some questions regarding the belief in a god.  Like I've said before-I figure that if I could figure out WHY people believe in a god-then I could use that information to try and figure out which particular flavor of Kool-Aid (belief) might make some sense.

 

BIIIIIG disappointment on that score. None of it still makes any sense to me-people have proven to me that they believe what they believe because they were taught to-and then they spend the rest of their lives trying to justify believing in what they were taught to believe until it all becomes rote and so 'normal' to them that 'it just IS and always was' and they no longer question it. (People remember best what they hear last and if they hear it ALL THE TIME, (every Sunday!/Wednesday!/Whatever!) relentlessly-it becomes truth because they can't remember anything else anymore. Bless their lil' hearts...)

 

It hasn't been a total loss hanging out here, though.  I've furthered my knowledge of human nature through experiences here.  What makes you people tick and how you keep ticking.

 

I must say that with a few exceptions-the southern version of human nature is very different than the northern version of it I've lived most of my life with.  Reading (listening, and yes...to me, reading posts in a forum is the same as standing in front of someone listening because there's real people behind those screen names who come back often and interact with me.  I'm the exact same way in real life as I am here in this forum. You can b'lee dat s#!t. Ask Jank or A. Rob. They'll tell ya.).

 

Met some cool people in person because of this forum. Good folks-believers and non.  Folks who don't judge me because of who I am or what my views or beliefs are.

 

Then again there are the Bill Grays and other automatons that just spewed at me-and then judged me harshly (and if you think condemning somebody to eternal dangnation (The "first blood" I keep mentioning) isn't harsh-whether ya believe in it or not-it's harsh to those who do it.  Even though I don't believe it-I KNOW what they MEANT.  Those folks just re-affirmed my belief that religion is just another crock of crap designed to control crowds and make money and make people who would otherwise go unnoticed in this world feel validated and powerful and knowledgeable by preaching it.  (Up nawth-I have to actively LOOK for a preacher.....Here I can't turn around without tripping over at least four of them.  When I look at the Shoals on Googley Earth-I hafta turn off all the churches on the map so I can frikkin' see something else besides all the #$%*in' churches.)

 

I've learned a lot here. Probably not what you might think I've learned, but I have learned a lot.

 

I like it here.  I think I'll stick around. (for as long as the mod who probably shoulda banned me a long time ago keeps laughing at what I write. *grins and crosses fingers*)

 

 

Now, having said that-I'm hungry and I have a couple dollars in ma pocket, so I do believe I'm gonna go worship briefly at The Church Of The One True Clown.  (Dollar menu ROCKS!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

I'll let RP speak for himself if he chooses to even read this stupid thread, but I'm pretty sure he has stated that he came here looking for religion, and you drove him to atheism, Bill.  Go ahead and pretend that it doesn't fit your criteria.

Hmm... Well actually, Crusty...my mind was pretty much made up already before I ever came to this forum.  Heh. Methinks ya give ol' BeeG too much credit.   Don't want his head to swell up too much. I dunno the pressure rating onnat sucker and I'd hate to hafta clean up one helluva mess should it burst.

 

For BeeG to be able to influence me to change any of my beliefs or principles that I stand on-he'd hafta matter to me a great deal.  His thoughts and words would have to hold some significance or importance to me.  Since they don't and he really doesn't matter to me one bit-He cannot affect me in any way, shape, or form.  BeeG is all noise and I've already stated many times why I believe he is constantly making that noise as often and as loudly as he can.

 

I reached my own conclusion regarding the existence of any kind of god-using my own experiences and logic and knowledge of the way things are and the way things work gained through self-education out of sheer curiosity.

 

However-I had never-EVER seen a 'religion' forum at a newspaper site before (Where I'm from there's lots of believers-but nobody gives a s#!&(Not even OTHER BELIEVERS! THE HORRORS!!!!!1) and leaves everybody else alone about it. Lot more atheists, too. Nobody cares one way or the other and we nawthunuhs don't shoot each other because we believe different things. Y'know.... Live and let live and all...)

 

Anyway, Like any good scientist would do-(OK, so I'm a simple scientist but I experiment nonetheless sometimes cause, hey..I could be wrong, but I figure I'm not..) I decided to drop in and ask some questions regarding the belief in a god.  Like I've said before-I figure that if I could figure out WHY people believe in a god-then I could use that information to try and figure out which particular flavor of Kool-Aid (belief) might make some sense.

 

BIIIIIG disappointment on that score. None of it still makes any sense to me-people have proven to me that they believe what they believe because they were taught to-and then they spend the rest of their lives trying to justify believing in what they were taught to believe until it all becomes rote and so 'normal' to them that 'it just IS and always was' and they no longer question it. (People remember best what they hear last and if they hear it ALL THE TIME, (every Sunday!/Wednesday!/Whatever!) relentlessly-it becomes truth because they can't remember anything else anymore. Bless their lil' hearts...)

 

It hasn't been a total loss hanging out here, though.  I've furthered my knowledge of human nature through experiences here.  What makes you people tick and how you keep ticking.

 

I must say that with a few exceptions-the southern version of human nature is very different than the northern version of it I've lived most of my life with.  Reading (listening, and yes...to me, reading posts in a forum is the same as standing in front of someone listening because there's real people behind those screen names who come back often and interact with me.  I'm the exact same way in real life as I am here in this forum. You can b'lee dat s#!t. Ask Jank or A. Rob. They'll tell ya.).

 

Met some cool people in person because of this forum. Good folks-believers and non.  Folks who don't judge me because of who I am or what my views or beliefs are.

 

Then again there are the Bill Grays and other automatons that just spewed at me-and then judged me harshly (and if you think condemning somebody to eternal dangnation (The "first blood" I keep mentioning) isn't harsh-whether ya believe in it or not-it's harsh to those who do it.  Even though I don't believe it-I KNOW what they MEANT.  Those folks just re-affirmed my belief that religion is just another crock of crap designed to control crowds and make money and make people who would otherwise go unnoticed in this world feel validated and powerful and knowledgeable by preaching it.  (Up nawth-I have to actively LOOK for a preacher.....Here I can't turn around without tripping over at least four of them.  When I look at the Shoals on Googley Earth-I hafta turn off all the churches on the map so I can frikkin' see something else besides all the #$%*in' churches.)

 

I've learned a lot here. Probably not what you might think I've learned, but I have learned a lot.

 

I like it here.  I think I'll stick around. (for as long as the mod who probably shoulda banned me a long time ago keeps laughing at what I write. *grins and crosses fingers*)

 

 

Now, having said that-I'm hungry and I have a couple dollars in ma pocket, so I do believe I'm gonna go worship briefly at The Church Of The One True Clown.  (Dollar menu ROCKS!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


First bolded part....I kept wondering what the heck a religion forum was doing at a paper's site and couldn't figure out why, and you helped me realize it.  Thanks!  I'm not used to religion and sports being the news and everything else used as filler..lol.

 

Second bolded part...I think this is the answer as to whether the "in your face and I am right" style of spreading beliefs works or not.  I said already if I hadn't heard of God and read this forum...well, some of the posts...I would run the other way and not want a relationship with anyone who treated people that way.  Reading some of the posts here has totally reinforced to me why I don't follow that system of beliefs and why I stayed away from church for years.  So you have two there right out of the gate who say it didn't convince us of anything and actually turned us off to it.  

 

And you are so right on the number of churches..lol.  That is interesting, but I already commented on how much sense it makes to say there is only one right way to believe while having a zillion different churches to choose from in even a few square blocks.  I have had visitors from other areas of the country who were horrified to see people standing on the edge of highways in the Tenn Valley leaning out in the road or coming up to cars waiting in traffic yelling and waving signs about going to hell or coming in to the revival and asking them what church they go to before saying hello.  

 

Some of these people are Christians, too, so it isn't just the "non-believers" who commented that they would never attend a church where people thought it wasn't rude and over the line to come up to cars and stick signs in face while yelling about burning in hell or insisting they get saved immediately.  So yes, there is proof all around that people like to be left to choose their paths themselves and to have their beliefs respected.  It is all around, actually, if one wants to see it.

Pup says:

BIIIIIG disappointment on that score. None of it still makes any sense to me-people have proven to me that they believe what they believe because they were taught to-and then they spend the rest of their lives trying to justify believing in what they were taught to believe until it all becomes rote and so 'normal' to them that 'it just IS and always was' and they no longer question it. (People remember best what they hear last and if they hear it ALL THE TIME, (every Sunday!/Wednesday!/Whatever!) relentlessly-it becomes truth because they can't remember anything else anymore. Bless their lil' hearts...)

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

That may be true for SOME, but a lot of us did as much heavy thinking before we came to our belief, as you did before you came to your lack of belief. Saying that all of us believe ONLY because we were taught to believe is neither accurate, nor does it make sense given what you have read from some of us here.

 

It is an oversimplification to assume we are all just brainwashed sheep. (I know that's the way you look at us.) There are a LOT of Christians who have done a lot of soul searching, and THAT is what led us to our faith.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

I have no doubt that he, and you, came here looking for a religion or two.  But, what we Christian believers speak of is a "relationship" with Jesus Christ.   So, you can keep your "religions" -- and we will stay in our "relationship."

 

But, keep an eye out for those six strong men -- for most likely they will make sure you do visit church at least one more time.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

______________

Your intentional misunderstanding aside, I've already told you - many, many times - that my relationship with God is just dandy.  You are the one trying to atone for a life of depravity, and failing.  Get your own house in order before you worry about mine.

 

Have a blissed day, Bill.

However-I had never-EVER seen a 'religion' forum at a newspaper site before (Where I'm from there's lots of believers-but nobody gives a s#!&(Not even OTHER BELIEVERS! THE HORRORS!!!!!1) and leaves everybody else alone about it

_____________

Yeah, I came to Florence over 20 years ago, and there were letters to the editor about religion, or condemning someone's actions using Bible quotes.  Quite a change from my roots and my time in Memphis, where all kinds of crazy things happen.  Don't consider this corner of Alabama to be representative of the rest of the South, please.

Crusty, I think you were thinking of Sofa King. I remember him saying that he came here looking for other believers to talk to and when he left the forums he said he had come to the conclusion that there was no God or gods. Bill had called him atheist and new age and a thousand other labels just because he believed in evolution, which to me is the same as saying I believe in gravity. He also used to talk a lot about science related issues and still had his faith in a creator. When he left he thanked Bill for making him think and consider his beliefs more critically and he had came to the conclusion that Bill was right and he was atheist after all.

 

Good job Bill! Thanks for adding one to our numbers. We will gladly take those like Sofa King that think logically, and reasonably. Without your help he might have tried to hold on to the belief in a God for a lot longer before he finally came to the logical conclusion that it is all make believe. I have since met Sofa King and he is a very nice, intelligent man. He probably would have came to that conclusion eventually on his own, but he still credits Bill (and a couple of others here) for helping him see the light sooner.

Originally Posted by Gingee:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

From my initial post:

 

So far, I do not know of anyone I have led astray.   If you do, please tell me.   In this request, I am extremely serious.   Now, I am not talking about someone who tells us, "When I was a teenager, I went to church -- but, all those hypocrites drove me away."   I am speaking of someone who is, or was, a serious seeker -- or a true Christian -- who has turned away from God because of my writings.   I cannot express to you how serious this is -- if it is true.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill


Bill, It is not up to you to lead anyone anywhere. God said he has put his word into every heart and every mind. Once they hear the word, God will see that his will is manifest in their lives and it is up to them to accept that Jesus Christ is the only salvation they will ever have. If they choose to accept then the Holy Spirit will dwell inside them and guide them every step of every second of their lives. I personally don't know how I ever functioned without his guidance. 

*****

 

God has put his word in inspired scripture. His word does not bypass scripture to get into anyone's heart. His word is immutable and true.  There are scads of false teachers who distort that word in just about every way imaginable, and it is not wrong--in fact it is very right--to warn against such false teachers. The trouble with God's word is that far too many people grossly misinterpret it and lead others astray.  That kind of unfortunate thing happens when people like  Bill promote such false doctrines as "once saved-always saved" and degrade the ordinance of baptism by teaching that it is not necessary for remission of sins, when scripture plainly teaches otherwise.

 

So, yes, we do have a duty to warn people about false teachings, including Bill's!!!

I tend to think it's fascinating how each person can see "truth" as something so different depending on our experiences and backgrounds.  I look at things from a science, medicine, healing, and teaching perspective, and sometimes I have to step back and remind myself that when I see things they are through my own filter.

 

For instance, when I see a kidney bean my silly mind thinks back to literally seeing kidneys and I have a little chuckle, while someone else might think of them from the nutrition or protein or calorie or seeing them grow perspective and think I am gross and weird for thinking of autopsies.  When I think of Catholic schools I think of the ones to which I went and the experiences I had, and when I think of "family" I am sure my viewpoint is most likely completely different than what might pop into someone else's head.  

 

My obvious facts may be totally ridiculous to someone else, but I am glad that there is opportunity to share and learn if we all have open ears and minds.  I wouldn't serve pork to a guest I knew didn't eat it whether I like it or not, for example.  What I eat or don't is my personal choice, and for me that has to go for others as well.  I just figure that I am only responsible for my own choices, behaviors, and thoughts, and I can't make anyone think my way even if I wanted to.  Variety really can be the spice of life or it can divide us.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

You are right. To any reasonable, evidence based person, it is the logical conclusion. Not everyone thinks that way.

Nice jab in the ribs there, DA.

You just reinforced my premise, if you don't agree with the atheists, you are unreasonable and ignore evidence.

You just reinforced my premise, if you don't agree with the atheists, you are unreasonable and ignore evidence.

 

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And if you don't agree with christians you are to stupid/sinful/self-centered/self-worshipping to "accept" the wonderful gift of eternal life, and have "chosen" to go to hell.

The Religion forum was here when I came, but I am under the impression that it was asked for when the "new" setup came about in 2007. The only one that has been added since then is the "College Life" or whatever it's called.

 

My take on religion and politics being more important in the South (but not all, as Crusty pointed out) is the ethnic makeup. We're mainly Western European, while many in the north are Eastern European and used to tighter reins on both church and government. In other words, we want our say, and by cracky we'll have it!

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Crusty, I think you were thinking of Sofa King. I remember him saying that he came here looking for other believers to talk to and when he left the forums he said he had come to the conclusion that there was no God or gods. Bill had called him atheist and new age and a thousand other labels just because he believed in evolution, which to me is the same as saying I believe in gravity. He also used to talk a lot about science related issues and still had his faith in a creator. When he left he thanked Bill for making him think and consider his beliefs more critically and he had came to the conclusion that Bill was right and he was atheist after all.

 

Good job Bill! Thanks for adding one to our numbers. We will gladly take those like Sofa King that think logically, and reasonably. Without your help he might have tried to hold on to the belief in a God for a lot longer before he finally came to the logical conclusion that it is all make believe. I have since met Sofa King and he is a very nice, intelligent man. He probably would have came to that conclusion eventually on his own, but he still credits Bill (and a couple of others here) for helping him see the light sooner.

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Okay, it was somebody, and that sounds right.   If I were to have to choose between Bill's cult and the atheists, I'd side with atheists.  Fortunately, I see Bill for what he is.

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
For BeeG to be able to influence me to change any of my beliefs or principles that I stand on-he'd hafta matter to me a great deal.  His thoughts and words would have to hold some significance or importance to me.  Since they don't and he really doesn't matter to me one bit-He cannot affect me in any way, shape, or form.  BeeG is all noise and I've already stated many times why I believe he is constantly making that noise as often and as loudly as he can.

 

Met some cool people in person because of this forum. Good folks-believers and non.  Folks who don't judge me because of who I am or what my views or beliefs are.

Then again there are the Bill Grays and other automatons that just spewed at me-and then judged me harshly.

 

I've learned a lot here. 

I like it here.  I think I'll stick around.   

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Pup, I’ve always enjoyed your post, especially on those days I may not be feeling my best because you always post something that makes me smile.

 

What you said about Bill & that it would have to matter to you (me) to be able to influence you (me) to change any of your (my) beliefs or principles that you (I) stand on-he would have matter to us a great deal, is right on the money!

 

What Bill says doesn’t influence me or matter to me personally. What does matter to me is the people that may be reading his crap that could be influenced by it. If there is one person that could be going thru a trying time or searching for something, Bill’s words, which is condemning & without any kindness/love/compassion, could easily hurt someone deeply & make them distrust any Christian or non-Christian. Bill could cause that person to run as far in the other direction as possible.

 

I’ve learned a lot here too, though sometimes I think I have to be crazy to hang out here. It would be interesting to know what makes some of these people tick. Especially those that claim to be a Christian that judge others that are no longer here to defend themselves. I think that is so wrong.

 

I've met a couple of people on this forum too & they are very, nice, decent people that hasn't preached to or judged me.

 

There will always be the Bills Grays that will spew at others & judge harshly. I think that’s the way they make themselves feel good, & you have to feel pity for Bill & those like him.

 

 

Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

If I were to have to choose between Bill's cult and the atheists, I'd side with atheists.  Fortunately, I see Bill for what he is.

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I agree. I've certainly been treated better here by the Atheist, then most of the Christians.

Originally Posted by Frankly:

Really, there is some sickening stuff going on here from supposed "Christians."

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Originally Posted by frog:

If we all aren't trying to force things on each other we might be actually able to discuss topics without nastiness and arguing.

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Originally Posted by Gingee:

Bill, It is not up to you to lead anyone anywhere

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Ditto to all three of you.

Gingee, you are right that it’s not up to Bill to lead anyone anywhere, but he doesn’t get it. It’s all about that crown he wants, & the work he has to do to get it.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I wonder why bill thinks he's qualified to speak as to what is or isn't a "false" religion.


That's my view as well for us all I guess.  Whatever I believe is true and false religion-wise is just that.  It's what I believe, and I don't see how anyone at all can hold up this book or that book written by people who aren't around to say what they meant or why they wrote it, and I can't see how one group or another could prove they had interpreted it literally and exactly how it was intended, so why all the proving back and forth?  We can't totally prove there is a God or gods and we aren't going to be able to totally prove there isn't no matter what we believe without quoting from a "holy" book, so why say we can?  One man's false is another man's true, and we aren't going to convince anyone otherwise, so why not respectfully discuss what we want to learn about or just chat about without trying to be THE RIGHT ONE?  (I was THE VOICE that you hear on tv acting as God for that...booming and all..lol)

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