Hi to my Forum Friends,
In the discussion "Where Are The Preachers?" posted by Deep who was lamenting the lack of qualified preachers on the Religion Forum -- Nagel replies, "I'm an actual ordained minister. What do you wanna know?"
I asked Nagel, "You tell us you are an ordained minister. What is your opinion of the Bible? How would you define the Bible? Just curious."
And, Nagel responds, "My opinion of the Bible isn't relevant. Definition of the Bible: the book that the Christian faith rests on. I think the Bible doesn't need interpretation. We don't need people like you to explain that what the verse REALLY meant isn't even close to what it actually said, but we aren't blessed enough to understand it. My being ordained has nothing to do with it."
I asked Nagel, "One of us seems to be confused. You tell us you ARE an ordained minister. Then, you tell us that the opinion of an ordained minister regarding the Bible isn't relevant? Then, you tell us your being ordained has nothing to do with the Bible? How does one dismiss the Bible, the Written Word of God -- and still become an ordained minister of God? This does sound confusing. Do you mind explaining this to we folks with inquiring minds?"
And, then B50 jumps in with, "The rest of us got it. I think he is saying his standing as a minister is to not influence other people's reading of the Bible. He realizes people are smart enough to read it on their own and they don't need it 'interpreted the correct way' from lay people or cut and paste jobs from fundamentalist pastors who deem it a certain way. We can all discuss it and explore possible different meanings with out condemnation. Would you like to try it that way?"
Yes, I would! But, who will lead the discussions? A discussion without a leader is sort of like a hen house without noise control.
When I am responsible for a Bible study or Sunday School class -- I will always define myself as the study leader, not the teacher. Why? Because the only good Bible study or Sunday School class is one where everyone participates, where everyone joins in the discussion, and where we will most often agree, but, at times, we will disagree. The leader's responsibility is to keep the study focused, moving in the right direction, and not going off on off-topic tangents.
You tell me that Nagel is an ordained minister who does "not (want to) influence other people's reading of the Bible." Then, what is, or was, his purpose for becoming an ordained minister? If not to share the Word of God, teach the Word of God, and to tell folks about Jesus Christ and the "free gift" of salvation He offers to all of us -- then, what is the purpose of being a minister?
One does not have to be ordained to be a pastor/teacher. Typically, today, we define an ordained minister as one who has his Master's degree from a seminary, has been reviewed by a body of peers, and approved to be ordained, given authority, as a minister within that church or denomination. Yes, that is a criteria set by today's churches and denominations -- but, not a bad guideline.
Or, one can go to a "Become an ordained minister immediately. Send us $75 and you will be able to start performing weddings tomorrow" type of web sites, such as the one in Fresno, California, and buy an ordination certificate.
Biblical ordination is a granting or passing of authority. In the Old Testament, God ordained Moses as the leader of the Israelites. Moses then ordained Joshua as his successor.
In the New Testament, we see in Ephesians 4:11-13 that Jesus Himself ordained specific offices in His church, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ."
The office of apostle was filled by the eleven who walked with Him -- and Paul who was given a special ordination on the road to Damascus. As we are told in Acts 1:21-22, apostles were those who were personally chosen by Christ -- and who walked with Him during His earthly ministry and was there to witness His resurrection. Only those twelve, excluding Matthias, for he was chosen by Peter and the other apostle and not by Jesus Christ.
So, those eleven plus Paul are the apostles. When they died -- there are no more apostles -- unless you know someone who walked with Jesus during those 3 1/2 years and was there for His resurrection. I know of no one who meets that criteria today -- so, I believe there are no more apostles.
The office of prophet was for those chosen as special messengers sent by God. The purpose of the prophets was to proclaim God's word or His revelations to the people. At that time only the rabbis in the temples had scrolls of Scripture -- so, for the common people to hear God's proclamation, He sent prophets among the people. Most people consider John the Baptist to be the last Old Testament prophet. With the Bible we now have direct access to the Word of God and have no need for prophets.
The office of Evangelism is alive and well today. Evangelists are those who follow the commission given by Jesus Christ in Matthew 28:19-20 to Go, Make disciples, Baptize them, Teach them -- and Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15 when He told us to be His witnesses to all the world.
The office of Pastor/Teacher is a very important responsibility. It must be -- for Jesus gives it great emphasis. In Matthew 20 He tells evangelist to Teach Them. And, in this passage of Ephesians 4:11-13, He makes this office one of the four He has personally appointed. From this I gather that He places great importance upon the teaching of the Word of God.
For the past twenty plus years, one thing I have appreciated about Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel is the fact that he teaches the Bible through expository sermons and Bible studies.
Basically there are two main types of sermons: topical and expository. With topical sermons the pastor/teacher picks a subject or topic, and then finds Scripture passages and verses to support his meaning of that subject. Once I watched a popular television Prosperity Theology preacher teaching on anointing oil. He quickly flashed about ten Scripture verses on the screen as support of his meaning of the oil. Nothing wrong with this.
However, I quickly wrote down all the verses and then looked them up. Maybe 3/4 of them were applicable to what he was preaching. The others were marginal at best. But, he had ten verses to support his sermon. In other words, the Topical Sermon pastor will pick a topic, decide what he believe it means -- and, then find Scripture verses he believes will support that meaning. And, many times he is using Scripture to paint a green horse red.
On the other hand, in expository sermons the Pastor/Teacher is teaching through the Bible. He starts with Genesis 1:1 and teaches through to Revelation 22:21 without skipping a single verse. In other words, he does not find a topic and then try to fit Scripture to it. He reads the Scripture verse or passage -- and, using his own knowledge of the Bible, commentaries from Bible scholars, and examples from other mature Bible teachers -- he will explain what God is telling us in that verse or passage from Scripture. The expository Pastor/Teachers’s goal is simply to "expose" the meaning of the Bible, verse by verse.
Pastor Chuck told of his first years as a pastor when he felt called to teach topical sermons. During the first year, he wrote and delivered fifty topical sermons. But, then his well went dry; he could think of no more topics he could use for sermons. So, he jokingly said that he had three choices: (1) begin all over and preach the same fifty sermons all over again -- possibly boring everyone, or (2) leave that church and go to a new church where they had not yet heard his fifty topical sermons, or (3) begin to preach expository sermons. Praise God he chose the third option and, to date, has preached through the Bible a number of times.
My Friends, that is why Jesus Christ gave us Pastor/Teachers -- and why He has raised up other Christian believers to share the Word of God with the world. To every Christian believer, Jesus Christ left these instructions: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:19-20)
And, He instructs us, "You shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth" (Acts 1:8) and in Mark 16:15, He tells us, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."
So, yes, B50 and Nagel, we all need mature Christian leaders, pastors, and teachers to help us better understand the Word of God. As we are told in Proverbs 27:17, "Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another" -- and, one Christian believer helps sharpen other Christian believers as, together, we study and mature in our knowledge of God's Written Word, the Bible -- and God's will for our lives.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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