President Bush says he will veto the Iraq Funding Bill if it contains a Timetable for Withdrawal.
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Where are the "conservatives?" Liberals have a two to one lead on this poll.
Bring those soldiers home!! We need to repair our world image before it's far too late!
3 whole votes. I guess it shows how much everyone cares.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
Where are the "conservatives?" Liberals have a two to one lead on this poll.
and it will help our world image to tuck our tails and run?quote:Originally posted by one who posts:
Bring those soldiers home!! We need to repair our world image before it's far too late!
No, not tuck and run, admit our fault and repair our damage. It would be nice to admit wrong-doing! No one likes a person who continues to fight a fight that was lost a long time ago. It would be nice to level with the world instead of continuing to look down our noses at it.
but you know as well as I do, the opposition will celebrate that as an out and out victory, and that will only strenghten their resolve.
Cares? I think it is common knowledge that this poll, like all the others will not make a nickels worth of difference. Not that it actually matters how many vote, we don't get listened to. After all, we aren't the Bush Constituency, the Rich and Powerful.quote:Originally posted by monster:3 whole votes. I guess it shows how much everyone cares.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
Where are the "conservatives?" Liberals have a two to one lead on this poll.
At least you have didn't call them the "ENEMY."quote:Originally posted by monster:
but you know as well as I do, the opposition will celebrate that as an out and out victory, and that will only strenghten their resolve.
Am I making progress?
I like that metaphor, Level with the world instead of looking down our noses at it." I have another one, "When a man looks at his feet in shame, he should not see another mans back under them."quote:Originally posted by one who posts:
No, not tuck and run, admit our fault and repair our damage. It would be nice to admit wrong-doing! No one likes a person who continues to fight a fight that was lost a long time ago. It would be nice to level with the world instead of continuing to look down our noses at it.
no, YOU aren't. I just don't consider them an enemy, and I choose my words carefully.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:At least you have didn't call them the "ENEMY."quote:Originally posted by monster:
but you know as well as I do, the opposition will celebrate that as an out and out victory, and that will only strenghten their resolve.
Am I making progress?
Good, I like to argue with people who use the language carefully.quote:Originally posted by monster:no, YOU aren't. I just don't consider them an enemy, and I choose my words carefully.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:At least you have didn't call them the "ENEMY."quote:Originally posted by monster:
but you know as well as I do, the opposition will celebrate that as an out and out victory, and that will only strenghten their resolve.
Am I making progress?
as long as you don't call me a liberal. I just might take offense to that.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:Good, I like to argue with people who use the language carefully.quote:Originally posted by monster:no, YOU aren't. I just don't consider them an enemy, and I choose my words carefully.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:At least you have didn't call them the "ENEMY."quote:Originally posted by monster:
but you know as well as I do, the opposition will celebrate that as an out and out victory, and that will only strenghten their resolve.
Am I making progress?
Coming from me, "Liberal" is akin to being called a brother in faith. If I ever do apply the label to anyone it will be a sign of great respect.quote:Originally posted by monster:as long as you don't call me a liberal. I just might take offense to that.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:Good, I like to argue with people who use the language carefully.quote:Originally posted by monster:no, YOU aren't. I just don't consider them an enemy, and I choose my words carefully.quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:At least you have didn't call them the "ENEMY."quote:Originally posted by monster:
but you know as well as I do, the opposition will celebrate that as an out and out victory, and that will only strenghten their resolve.
Am I making progress?
I might get you calling yourself a liberal though. You already have one characteristic, you believe in seeking and saying truth.
don't kid yourself, there is truth and fallacy on both sides of the aisle. I like to see myself as a realist, who can think for himself.
In that case, you are not in the majority of Conservatives. That leaves three or four major possibilities. You are a centerist, neither liberal nor conservative, You are kidding yourself and you are actually a conservative who thinks that he has not been hijacked by the ditto head movement, or you are a liberal who is unwilling to admit that being in the center today is liberal by comparison with the radical right.quote:Originally posted by monster:
don't kid yourself, there is truth and fallacy on both sides of the aisle. I like to see myself as a realist, who can think for himself.
One reason that the majority of Americans poll out as liberal is because todays political center is so far to the right. On left wing policy most Americans are opposed. A majority is against government ownership of factories, and a majority favors government regulation of manufacturing.
The label gets in the way of the debate.
I consider myself a moderate conservative. I most definitely don't see myself as a liberal, but I'm not a staunch conservative. I tend to lean toward the right on most issues, but I'm not so blinded that I can't see the good on the other side also. but liberal, I'm not.
Well that clears things up a lot, Now, do you think the US should begin withdrawal from Iraq by October 1st?quote:Originally posted by monster:
I consider myself a moderate conservative. I most definitely don't see myself as a liberal, but I'm not a staunch conservative. I tend to lean toward the right on most issues, but I'm not so blinded that I can't see the good on the other side also. but liberal, I'm not.
no I don't. I feel that if we cut and run, we are proclaiming victory for the opposition. and by doing such, we have destabilized an already volatile region, and make ourselves more susceptible to aggressions on our own soil at a later date. the radicals we are dealing with want to exploit any weakness we show, and that would be showing a weakness in our resolve. I'd rather do what has to be done to finish the job on their soil, rather than make a hasty retreat and have them bring the fight to us later. but do I see any real and lasting peace in that part of the world, not in my lifetime. but we need to try to leave a more stable Iraq than what we rolled into at the beginning of this crap!
Well, here we have a dispute. One, we cannot cut and run without massive casualties. Or at least risking massive casualties. We have to "sue for Peace" first. In fact that is what Bush should be doing RIGHT THIS INSTANT. Round the clock, non stop negotiations with all factions. The stated goal should be to bring a settlement that wil allow for a complete and total cease fire, and withdrawal of American forces.quote:Originally posted by monster:
no I don't. I feel that if we cut and run, we are proclaiming victory for the opposition. and by doing such, we have destabilized an already volatile region, and make ourselves more susceptible to aggressions on our own soil at a later date. the radicals we are dealing with want to exploit any weakness we show, and that would be showing a weakness in our resolve. I'd rather do what has to be done to finish the job on their soil, rather than make a hasty retreat and have them bring the fight to us later. but do I see any real and lasting peace in that part of the world, not in my lifetime. but we need to try to leave a more stable Iraq than what we rolled into at the beginning of this crap!
The talks must include at a minimum, the Sheia and Sunni Clerics, all the elected provincial governors, and the cabinet and leaders of the national government.
The US should require cease fire, offer mediation after withdrawing the bulk of armed forces, leaving only a security garrison for the diplomatic corps needed for mediation. We should settle for full withdrawal, no strings attached, but a fall back position from mediation should be a disinterested mediator, either a UN commission, or representatives from a secular or Muslim Nation. Possibly China, Japan, Iran or Russia.
We have accomplished our goal of ending the reign of terror under Hussain and the Baathists.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:Well, here we have a dispute. One, we cannot cut and run without massive casualties. Or at least risking massive casualties. We have to "sue for Peace" first. In fact that is what Bush should be doing RIGHT THIS INSTANT. Round the clock, non stop negotiations with all factions. The stated goal should be to bring a settlement that wil allow for a complete and total cease fire, and withdrawal of American forces.quote:Originally posted by monster:
no I don't. I feel that if we cut and run, we are proclaiming victory for the opposition. and by doing such, we have destabilized an already volatile region, and make ourselves more susceptible to aggressions on our own soil at a later date. the radicals we are dealing with want to exploit any weakness we show, and that would be showing a weakness in our resolve. I'd rather do what has to be done to finish the job on their soil, rather than make a hasty retreat and have them bring the fight to us later. but do I see any real and lasting peace in that part of the world, not in my lifetime. but we need to try to leave a more stable Iraq than what we rolled into at the beginning of this crap!
The talks must include at a minimum, the Sheia and Sunni Clerics, all the elected provincial governors, and the cabinet and leaders of the national government.
The US should require cease fire, offer mediation after withdrawing the bulk of armed forces, leaving only a security garrison for the diplomatic corps needed for mediation. We should settle for full withdrawal, no strings attached, but a fall back position from mediation should be a disinterested mediator, either a UN commission, or representatives from a secular or Muslim Nation. Possibly China, Japan, Iran or Russia.
We have accomplished our goal of ending the reign of terror under Hussain and the Baathists.
As usual Ed, Well said.
Mission Accomplished. Done!