Should you force your children to go to church?

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Thats about right frog. So, if someone ( a saved Christian ) turned to Atheism, then

Billie-je could say they were never saved in the first place, right?

Could you say when DNSNSFAT turned to God, it's ok for the blue miner to

say he was never a true atheist anyway??

Is - frog - an acronym?

.

And, this, my Friends, is the perfect testimony of an Eastern world religion influenced / New Age religion follower.   No, my Friend, there are not many ways to God.  There may be many ways to Nirvana, or to wherever your New Age gurus point you.  But, they all lead YOU down the Slippery Slope.   There is only ONE WAY to eternal life (John 14:6) -- and that is through Jesus Christ.

No, this is not the word of Bill Gray; this is straight from God's Written Word, the Bible.   I cannot tell anyone they are going to heaven or to hell.   But, the Bible most certainly can -- and, it does.   So, you can just continue on your Slippery Slope -- or you can get on the ONE WAY to God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Frog, I've already updated your ticket to Hell, but Bill has now put his official stamp on it, so sit back, relax, and just try and enjoy the trip.

Bill, you are really a card.  You have no idea what my path is or who/what I believe in really, and you really lost the reality along the way if you don't get that I could be talking even about Christianity, and how not all people go exactly on the path you got here on..lol..and God/Jesus wouldn't be turning people away because they got there on the "wrong" path.  I mean that is what you seem to be saying since you are asking all the atheists to join you on the right path..lol.

You have no idea if my path is slippery, down, up, or anything else, and you have told many people they are going to hell when they disagree with you.  All you can base your argument on is one book. I know where it is and I have read it, so there is no need for you to feel you must explain it to me over and over..I can't speak for anyone else, but I did read it already and you can stop telling me personally about slopes and your one way.  I read your posts and I know exactly what you stand for.  I also know what I believe and stand for and am happy with my path, so please refrain from trying to convince me you are the only right one in the forums.  

Perhaps now that I have released you from any need to save my soul (you have no idea what I believe anyway), you can move on to someone else.  I am trying very hard to be polite and respectful of your point of view, but I really am not interested in being converted...thanks anyway.

Bill is as bad as the Jehovah's witnesses that keep coming to my door - just a different cult.

Lol...I'm all strapped in and having some popcorn now

Will you answer or pretend you didn't see the question? The first two posts are yours, the second conflicting the first. Care to explain?

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My five grandchildren, kindergarten to 11th grade, love attending church -- always have.  And, they love their fantastic Christian school.   This I can promise you -- for the rest of their lives, they will be thankful to their parents for the sacrifices they have made to assure that all five are in this Christian school.

And, when I attend Grandparent's Day at this Christian school -- I am so thrilled.  It thrills me to see the children, teachers, administrators, parents, and grandparents -- ALL joining together in prayer, song, and worship to our Lord.   My only sadness in all of this -- is that NOT ALL children are so blessed.

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Can you honestly tell the folks on the Religion Forum that, as a child, you sincerely invited Jesus Christ to come into your life and be your personal Lord and Savior? 

Or, did you just attend church with your family and sit in the pew making spit-balls or paper airplanes out of the bulletins?

Uno, as a young boy and as a teenager -- I attended the Nazarene church on Hatch Blvd, I attended the First Baptist church in Sheffield, and, I occasionally attended the Methodist church in Sheffield.   Did that make me a Christian believer?  NO!  In no way!   I did not become a Christian believer until I was fifty years old.

So, Uno, can you honestly (and, you will know if you are being honest) tell us that you sincerely invited Jesus Christ to be your personal Lord and Savior -- and then became an atheist?

If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell you very cheap -- for you are easily confused.

Keep in mind that I can tell folks that I was, at one time, a giraffe.  But, that does not make it true.

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Bestworking:

So you're saying all the little kiddies in your family that you're so proud of aren't real christians? Got  it. 

Hi Jennifer,

You ask me, "Will you answer or pretend you didn't see the question?  The first two posts are yours, the second conflicting the first.  Care to explain?"

And, then you copy/paste from my earlier posts:

+++++++++++++++++++++++

POST 1:

My five grandchildren, kindergarten to 11th grade, love attending church -- always have.  And, they love their fantastic  Christian school.   This I can promise you -- for the rest of their lives, they will be thankful to their parents for the  sacrifices they have made to assure that all five are in this Christian school.

And, when I attend Grandparent's Day at this Christian school -- I am so thrilled.  It thrills me to see the children,  teachers, administrators, parents, and grandparents -- ALL joining together in prayer, song, and worship to our Lord.    My only sadness in all of this -- is that NOT ALL children are so blessed.

AND POST 2:

Can you honestly tell the folks on the Religion Forum that, as a child, you sincerely invited Jesus Christ to come into your life and be your personal Lord and Savior?

Or, did you just attend church with your family and sit in the pew making spit-balls or paper airplanes out of the bulletins?

Uno, as a young boy and as a teenager -- I attended the Nazarene church on Hatch Blvd, I attended the First Baptist church in Sheffield, and, I occasionally attended the Methodist church in Sheffield.   Did that make me a Christian believer?  NO!  In no way!   I did not become a Christian believer until I was fifty years old.

So, Uno, can you honestly (and, you will know if you are being honest) tell us that you sincerely invited Jesus Christ  to be your personal Lord and Savior -- and then became an atheist?

If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell you very cheap -- for you are easily confused.

Keep in mind that I can tell folks that I was, at one time, a giraffe.  But, that does not make it true.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I fail to see where these two post contradict one another.

And, Jennifer, you ask, "So you're saying all the little kiddies in your family that you're so proud of aren't real Christians?  Got it."

I am not sure how you draw this conclusion.  If you will reread my posts above, you will see that I did NOT tell Uno that he did not become a Christian because of his youth.   I showed doubt based upon the fact that he is now a devout atheist.  So, what I am asking is how could he have been a Christian believer -- and then NOT a Christian believer.   The Bible tells us that NO ONE (and that includes the person himself) can snatch a believer out of the hands of God.

I asked him:

Can you honestly tell the folks on the Religion Forum that, as a child, you sincerely invited Jesus Christ to come into  your life and be your personal Lord and Savior?

For Uno to say that he WAS a Christian and then he was NOT a Christian -- is like saying I was born from my mother's womb -- and then decided to be unborn.  This does not happen.  Once a person leaves his mother's womb -- he is born into this world.  And, once a person is born-again of the Holy Spirit -- there is no going back.  He is in the Family of God.  If a person is NOT in the Family of God; it is because he never was in the Family of God.

So, Jennifer, you can declare, "But, Uno told us that he was a believer -- and then not a believer."

And, I told Uno, "Keep in mind that I can tell folks that I was, at one time, a giraffe.  But, that does not make it true."

Anyone can profess themselves to be Christian -- but, only a true believer can confess Jesus Christ and become a born-again believer.  And, this, my Friend, is what I am convinced that Uno has done -- professed, but, not confessed.

To conclude, Jennifer, your position does not hold water.  A person either is a Christian or is not a Christian.   Christianity is not a dress one can put on and then take off.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hi Just,

Please edit this post and remove a large portion of your dotted line.  It is causing our screens to be distorted.  It is like having a too large graphic and the software tries to accommodate it.  I will really appreciate it if you will edit out half of your dotted line.

Thank you and God bless,

Bill

Not reading your book bill. Just answer please. How can you doubt Unob and insist your children/grandchildren are christians and will remain so? You can't have it both ways. So KISS and answer. I think you painted yourself into a corner.

Just, the post looks fine to me.

My mother made me go to church.

I cannot thank her enough.  Between church and the reading of the Bible, atheism is the obvious and natural conclusion for a thinking person.

DF

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Spitting contest.....  That's what it turns into if the conversation doesn't go the way

Bill wants it to.

If someone, for instance, Bill Gray, is shouting his favorite line "I'm a Christian" but

he's not bearing the fruit of a Christian (which he doesn't), it becomes mine or

anyone's business when he's shoving his "Christianity" down our throat.

Unob, bill knows all that. Denying that atheists were ever believers is only a defense mechanism that some christians use. How can bill, god's go to guy in his mind, face the thought that anyone, even people in his family, could lose their belief? Look at those kids again bill, and keep in mind they are no different than unob, nsns, or thousands of others of us were. Right now any of them, even the ones in your own family could be going through what we went through, and could end up losing that belief just like we did. Then you can turn on them and tell them they never believed-even though you think right now that they do, and post right in this forum how proud you are of them. You can ask them if they're having doubts, but I can tell you right now they won't discuss it with you.

But cheer up bill, because even if they do lose that belief it won't change who they are. If they're good people they will still be good people, and I'd say they'll be better people. The only nasty change will be your attitude towards them.

No, I like frogs...very simple.  Cute little creatures with nice buggy eyes and really cute when they are swimming around.  Sometimes I am froggie, but frog here.

And since someone has asked a couple of times (but I can't find the post to respond), I have never been on these forums as anyone else ever.   I have no wish to play name games or chase people around, play head games...none of it.  I am just a frog with little webbed feet, suction-cupped toes,  and bulging eyes like my freshly added avatar...lol.

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It's hard to make an informed decision when you're only taught about one of the thousands of sectarian Christian tales, to which the only alternative taught is fear and guilt...

We're certainly all entitled to raise and teach our children as we see fit but it's pretty shallow to say that what you describe above is "all the information".

Hence the reason most forums have a one name per person rule..lol.  Your bolded part is correct and it applies to many areas of life today.  Sad but true.  

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Welcome frog! You've been a refreshing addition to this forum.

On the bolded part I agree, and that is where I see the problem with not teaching kids other ways of thinking.  I know people who have grown up in one church (which of course is fine), but who have been taught that all others are all wrong and will all go to hell if they don't attend their particular  church.  They aren't taught why others believe as they do or don't, and they aren't taught to respect that we all are entitled to our beliefs without being badgered, harassed, or viewed as less than another group because beliefs vary.  Like it or not we are all human and none of us has "perfect and infallible" stamped on us from birth, so any of us appointing ourselves as the sole interpreter of any book or way of life is arrogance in my opinion.  

But if I had never gotten to see other ways of life or ever actually believed that only one group of people hold the keys to salvation because that is all I was exposed to I wouldn't have been given all the information.  I know why I choose what I do and why I don't choose what I don't.  I know why I hold certain traditions and how they compare to many other groups' traditions because I researched, experienced, really listened, and the people I have met who don't get that opportunity for growth miss the chance to get all the information.

My kids aren't taught that they must believe one way or another to be "right", but in our home we treat each other with respect and compassion, with boundaries and expectations for behavior.  We encourage them to learn about other beliefs and to respect them whether they fit us or them, and if they choose a different path that is their right.  There is no hellfire and brimstone in our home, and there is no teaching that God is a bad word, that witchcraft is a horror, or that atheists have nothing (all untrue).  Instead we read with them to educate them on what a group REALLY believes and practices so they can think and respond to the world with information, and we teach them to trust their intuition and listen to their hearts and minds.  

Sorry to go on about this, but really if people aren't given information about any topic how can anyone make an informed choice?  I would rather have a congregation of twenty who actually read the precepts to know what my church really stood for and chose to be there than a thousand who were bullied, harangued, tricked, or threatened into coming.  But that is me and I am odd that way..lol.

Well, to each his own I guess...lol.

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Unoi, thanks for posting that story. I understand you better now.

Alcohol will do strange things to some people. I assume the 30’s baptism was an attempt to stop the slow death of alcohol but no one has control over alcohol. The lure of one more drink snatched God right out of your life. Self medication always fails at some point. A good starting point for you at this time might just be to not believe in anything but your family at this point. You are leaving quite a trail throughout the internet of reaching out to fringe groups. You need to get off this forum and flee from Micah and his group they are causing you great harm. You are a bitter person for no reason. So let it bode.

Thank you very much

okuok-Since there was no mention of alcohol use on unob's part we can only conclude that you are finally telling us what is wrong with you. Get some help, join AA or whatever other program will have you. After you get help maybe you can actually make friends, and if you have any family they may be able to stand you.

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I believe you & understand wholeheartedly but we all know that you will hear from Bill on that.

You know, that sermon in which he, in his Christian authority as God's right hand man, will

call you a liar. But of course, he only calls you a liar because he "loves you" &

you're his "friend".

Perhaps I missed something about alcohol and I don't presume to know why anyone makes any choices or all that you are referring to, but how do you automatically know why a person changes paths?  Perhaps it was personal growth, a desire for a different life, perhaps searching for something different...but why does it always have to be something lost if a person decides that Christianity isn't right for him or her?  There really are many other ways to live fully and peacefully, and being Christian (or not) doesn't assure a happy life.

As I've said before, believing in God isn't the only way to be happy or for that matter, not to drink.  How can we say a person is bitter for no reason when we haven't walked in his shoes?  If this Micah you refer to is a negative energy who pulls people down sure, move away from him, and I would say being bitter doesn't help anyone heal, but saying someone is bitter for no reason assumes we know his whole life intimately.  Perhaps you do know Uno that way in real life, but one person's fringe group is another's awesome community.  I have no idea in any particular case, but I don't think anything snatches God out of a life...perhaps the person moves on sometimes.  I wish the best for you, Uno, and that you live the path that feels right to you.

Oh...hmm..ukuok, did you mean this is what happened to you?  I thought you were referring to unob...geez it gets confusing sometimes...or should I say I get confused easily

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We all know that alcohol wasn't mentioned in his post. Why do you have to be so

mean to people?

If that was in reference to Unob either you have privy to something you most likely weren't supposed to be revealing or you made it up.  Why would you do either one?  

Sometimes I feel I am in the Twilight Zone in this forum and feel the need to check the title again....yep, it says "Religion" on it.  I thought I wandered off somewhere once again...lol.

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Frog, at this point I’m comfortable that you in fact could be in the “Twilight Zone”.

You are no help in unoi’s dilemma. That is the reason I suggested he leave this forum and not believe in anything but his family until such time he can realize fringe groups are unhealthy.

Actually your post was the latest reason I thought that..lol.  I really wasn't appointed or trying to help anyone get straightened out, and who says anyone has a dilemma that we need to fix anyway?  And why would you suggest someone leave this forum and how would you know what groups or forums would be unhealthy for him?  And I ask again why alcohol was brought into this?

I must have also missed anyone on here asking for assistance in finding a path or choosing friends?   Fringe groups?  That term means something different to anyone you ask I would bet...I think this is the TZ..lol.

Or is this a fringe group maybe?

For the record, I do happen to drink every single night of the week -- except occasionally on Sunday when I forget to order another truckload of wine.  I have an expensive addiction to a good pinot noir and will have up to TWO whole glasses each night as I cry myself into a stupor.  If I'm feeling particularly depressed over the absence of gods in my life (or if I'm doing some heavy cooking), I might have 3 whole glasses. My addiction caused me to invest heavily in a wine cellar just so I can guzzle it at the perfect temperature (65 degrees for me, thank you). Yep, I sacrificed my child's college education just so I can have a well stocked cellar.  Sad, ain't it? Someone please help me.

Hope you are sharing your kid's education with them. 

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I rest my case.

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Love it!! I needed that laugh today...thank you!  

Best laugh I had all day...